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Avianca / Taca Close To Alliance Decision  
User currently offlineRICARIZA From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2393 posts, RR: 26
Posted (4 years 9 months 4 days ago) and read 12228 times:

An article in a leading newspaper in Colombia with an interview with the president of the holding, German Efromovich and he answers about the future of Avianca:

When discussing new routes the journalist asks:

"What about Europe?

R/ Besides MAD and BCN, we are studying which alliance to join: either Star Alliance or Skyteam. We recently had the visit from the president of Lufthansa, who want us to be strategic partners. We are like the bride who is thinking who would be the best groom, the age, the presents and his conditions. The bride is very undecided because both grooms are very handsome, with lots of money and they loved us very much. We have a serious decision to make

"When are you going to decide?"
R/We have a deadline to answer by the end of April"


The article also talks about O6 and 2K joining the holding soon. He answers that O6 will soon be called AV but 2K will remain as Aerogal.

Source in Spanish: http://www.portafolio.com.co/empresa...sta-a-german-efromovich-_7448289-3

I also heard that AV is requesting permission to fly to FRA, make sense if they are planning to join Star. which will but I don't have confirmation about this.


I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26137 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 12096 times:

I've long stated Star has had ongoing discussions with Avianca.
Just because they Delta code-share does not mean they have not been seriously considering a move towards Star.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinesflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 11870 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
I've long stated Star has had ongoing discussions with Avianca.
Just because they Delta code-share does not mean they have not been seriously considering a move towards Star.

Wonder if we will see another alliance war à la JL for AV+. Could be interesting. I don't think ST should let this one go. They really need the support in South America.


User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 11760 times:

Quoting RICARIZA (Thread starter):
We are like the bride who is thinking who would be the best groom, the age, the presents and his conditions. The bride is very undecided because both grooms are very handsome, with lots of money and they loved us very much. We have a serious decision to make

Doesn't sound like he's all that serious about the alliance game. And he probably shouldn't be just yet - they have plenty of their own integration to worry about before they should really look beyond. He also seems to have scrapped that idea he floated when they merged that AV would go one way and TA another, which I always thought was hogwash.

In all this there's also the CM factor - will they finally follow CO into *A? If they do then look for AV-TA to go Skyteam - there's only so much USA/Europe feed for the two of them to share.


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8625 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 11651 times:
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While I am very pro *A I have to say that the thread title seems to me a little misleading/premature since the excerpts provided by the OP suggest that in fact AV/TA are still looking at both alliances and have not yet made up their minds . Perhaps the mods could "mod"-ify the title to say something like "AV/TA near alliance decision" ? Nevertheless , I will be crossing my fingers and hoping that they go with *A  

Would one expect JJ to object because of AVs relationship with Ocean Air ? Perhaps that is why they need to make a decision by the end of April so that it is done before JJ joins in May ?



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2569 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 11611 times:

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 3):
Doesn't sound like he's all that serious about the alliance game. And he probably shouldn't be just yet - they have plenty of their own integration to worry about before they should really look beyond

The fact that Efromovich says that Avianca will make a decision before the end of April on what alliance to join sounds to me if he is very serious about it, and we won't have long to wait to find out. Just because he used a bridal metaphore should not detract from the importance of the move.


User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 11594 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 4):
Would one expect JJ to object because of AVs relationship with Ocean Air ?

Not really - OceanAir has never been a big player in Brazil. Currently IIRC their market share is about 2-3% - behind Azul and Webjet who in just a couple of years have been able to start from scratch and outgrow them. And no international service for OceanAir.

Efromovich in Brazil was once a big oil contractor for Petrobras, and OceanAir came about as charter operator aimed at flying oil workers around. He then started regular passenger ops, but has never been able to make a dent on anyone even when Varig collapsed.


User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2569 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 11576 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 4):
Would one expect JJ to object because of AVs relationship with Ocean Air ? Perhaps that is why they need to make a decision by the end of April so that it is done before JJ joins in May ?

Agree that the title should be changed, as according to the interview quoted Star and Skyteam are on equal footing on this one. However, given that for Taca Star seems to be crucial, we can take it that they have the upped hand.
It could still happen that TA join Star, and AV stays independent, but that is not looking likely.

I don't imagine that the OceanAir vs TAM factor is very important given that the former has a tiny share of the brazilian market (something like 2%).


On a slightly different note and that I mentioned elsewhere:
AV has applied to fly to YUL and YYZ via SAL. I expect there would be cooperation, probably codeshare with AC.
AV also applied to serve other points in Central America.

Also BOG-FRA-BOG, but AV would not have aircraft to operate this route until next year, when 2 A330s arrive.

[Edited 2010-03-21 12:40:17]

User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8625 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 11497 times:
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Quoting Summa767 (Reply 7):
Agree that the title should be changed, as according to the interview quoted Star and Skyteam are on equal footing on this one. However, given that for Taca Star seems to be crucial, we can take it that they have the upped hand.

I certainly hope that the decision is for *A , but I imagine that Skyteam would fight tooth and nail to win this as they lack a South/Central American partner and TA/AV together with their various partially and fully owned subsidiaries give more or less complete coverage of Central and South America under a single umbrella . I would think that AF/KL and DL would be willing to make a pretty attractive membership package to get them onboard . On the other hand I am not sure what AM would think of it given the groups holding in Volaris ( although according to wiki I think the holding is only 25% )



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineNYCAdvantage From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 11454 times:

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 5):
The fact that Efromovich says that Avianca will make a decision before the end of April on what alliance to join sounds to me if he is very serious about it, and we won't have long to wait to find out.

¿Cuándo va a decidir?

Tenemos plazo hasta finales de abril.

I think he said, Someone gave AV a deadline to decide until April, I wonder Who ST or *A? I think provably *A

But he is not saying that Avianca is going to decide by the end of April, but who knows if they make a decision I will not be surprise if the go to *A


User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 11185 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 8):
I certainly hope that the decision is for *A , but I imagine that Skyteam would fight tooth and nail to win this as they lack a South/Central American partner and TA/AV together with their various partially and fully owned subsidiaries give more or less complete coverage of Central and South America under a single umbrella .

From the bridesmaid comment by Efro it sounds like SkyTeam is strongly in the hunt too, with DL likely the main sponsor.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 8):
On the other hand I am not sure what AM would think of it given the groups holding in Volaris ( although according to wiki I think the holding is only 25% )

IIRC Volaris was not a part of AV-TA, and that 25% remains of the hands of TA's former majority owners - the Kriete's. But regardless Volaris is run independently and controlled by the Mexican click - namely Carlos Slim and Grupo Televisa.

Quoting NYCAdvantage (Reply 9):
I think he said, Someone gave AV a deadline to decide until April, I wonder Who ST or *A? I think provably *A

The main reason I can see for that sort of deadline (which clearly has been imposed on Efromovich) is that *A has somebody else interested if AV-TA says no - namely CM.

Chances are the folks at LH and *A more broadly have figured out that AV-TA and CM wont want to be in the same alliance with one another. That being the case, if the alliance would have its pick they would give preference to AV-TA. Despite CM's strong reach regionally, from an alliance perspective AV-TA provides more points of connection (LIM, BOG, SJO, GYE, SAL vs. PTY), and has greater long haul potential (A330s vs. B737s) to connect with more carriers in the alliance.

If AV-TA does not make up their mind to join *A by April, then look for CM to come in shortly thereafter.



[Edited 2010-03-21 17:02:14]

User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 11169 times:

Quoting NYCAdvantage (Reply 9):
I will not be surprise if the go to *A

Seems logical if AV decides for ST (close relationship with DL-AF). But I agree with you, *A will surely have a word on this, Mr Efromovich even said LHs CEO talked to AV.....they could really use a carrier with the Latinamerican presence AV/TA have. Heck, AC has been in the colombian marker for a couple of years now, codesharing with AV, and having pretty good loads (they even upgraded from their initial A319 to a 763 iirc), so a member of the alliance knows how to deal with them.

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 3):
they have plenty of their own integration to worry about before they should really look beyond.

It seems the integration is already working deeper and more advenced than us regulars folks could think. AV has a offer these days if you book a TA flight, you earn twice the miles flown in your AV account. And AV/TA had code share agreements for a while.

777jaah



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11090 times:

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 11):
It seems the integration is already working deeper and more advenced than us regulars folks could think. AV has a offer these days if you book a TA flight, you earn twice the miles flown in your AV account. And AV/TA had code share agreements for a while.

Those marketing deals are pretty easy - to give you an example even AA and GOL had both the codeshare and reciprocal double miles promo after 4-5 months of signing a deal, and they're far from merger partners. Its on the operational side where you know if the integration has any depth.

[Edited 2010-03-21 18:08:31]

User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 10000 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11054 times:

I don't see why AV/TA should go for Star as their biggest competitor is in the Star Alliance, JJ. The rumor of JJ eventually being interested in the LAN shares now having been sold from Chile's new president (Pinera) also makes Star even less attractive. AV/TA is of much more use and value in the Sky Team Alliance. My bets go to AV/TA joining for Sky Team.

A388


User currently offlineEnviroTO From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 829 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10888 times:

I was hoping Avianca / Ocean Air would go to Oneworld. Ocean Air would provide a platform to grow on in Brazil and LAN doesn't serve the northern parts of South America that well.

User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2569 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10547 times:

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 12):
Its on the operational side where you know if the integration has any depth.

As we have discussed before, the AV-TA merger will be more like AF-KL. So operationally they will each do their own thing. Of course they can bargain together for supplies, and standardize procedures..
There is so little overlap in their networks, that no much work needs to go into big rearrangements there. TA is now using a E190 on its SJO-BOG, just as AV has increased its frequencies to daily. On the LIM-BOG route, we have seen an increase on Loads for Taca, that had been very poor.

We have already seen AV apply for BOG-SAL-YUL and BOG-SAL-YYZ, so clearly AV will be working for the SAL hub. More feeding flights from Colombia are on the way. MDE-PTY-SJO started last week.


User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 10197 times:

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 15):
As we have discussed before, the AV-TA merger will be more like AF-KL. So operationally they will each do their own thing. Of course they can bargain together for supplies, and standardize procedures..

From outside we really don't know how fast they are going on the back end integration (purchasing, consolidating management functions). But it doesn't seem very quick - they haven't even announced the merging of FF programs for example, which is something even AF and KL did.

And I mostly disagree on the AF-KL analogy. They don't have to keep separate brands like AF/KL - other than in El Salvador TA is not native to any of the countries where it operates. So creating an umbrella brand like Avianca (as they will be doing in Brazil) or a new name won't cause major problems in say LIM or SJO - in those places they already see TA as something that came from outside. I think the main reason Efro is going slow on announcing the consolidation of brands, operations, etc is not to upset and retain the involvement of his minority partners, since some of these acquisitions (TA for example) were made under the premise that the former majority owners would still keep some sort of autonomy for awhile. Another example, he said in the interview that they will be keeping the Aerogal name - which even in Ecuador is not that strong. Does any one really believe that the Aerogal brand will be around 5 years from now? It certainly does not make business sense to do so.

Then again, Efromovich had announced in 2007 or 2008 that OceanAir would be re-named Avianca, and to this day nothing has happened. So they're not very quick with these things regardless.


User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2569 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9993 times:

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 16):
keeping the Aerogal name - which even in Ecuador is not that strong. Does any one really believe that the Aerogal brand will be around 5 years from now? It certainly does not make business sense to do so.

Then again, Efromovich had announced in 2007 or 2008 that OceanAir would be re-named Avianca, and to this day nothing has happened. So they're not very quick with these things regardless.

Aerogal is a strong name in Ecuador! They have a big share of the domestic market -which may not be saying much-. Will the name stick pass 5 years.. I don't know. The fact that it "feels" Ecuatorian may be important for the market.
Same debate was had within OceanAir. Name will finallyt change to Avianca next month. Its first A319 has been spotted in Hamburg with the Avianca colours and titles. I don't think that the names are that important if the synergies on network, supplies, training, mx etc are there.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8496 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 9782 times:
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Quoting Summa767 (Reply 7):
lso BOG-FRA-BOG, but AV would not have aircraft to operate this route until next year, when 2 A330s arrive

BOG to FRA would not be operated daily, 3 or 4 times weekly. It would only need about two thirds of one A330, so AV could do it without any strech to the A330 fleet once the new A330 are delivered.


The SKYTEAM alliance would work best for Avianca for many reasons, its current connections with Air Fracne and Delta being the most important. With Copa very likely joining Star, having Av, Taca and Copa in Star would make no sense. Copa's Panama hub is a great connection point for long haul, the terminal is much better then Bogota or Caracas.

For Lufthansa having Panama as their North Latin American connection point to match Sao Paulo as their southern Latin American connection point would be great. LH porbably would maintain the individual routes it has to Caracas, Buenos Aires and Mexico City.


User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 9626 times:

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 17):
Aerogal is a strong name in Ecuador! They have a big share of the domestic market -which may not be saying much-. Will the name stick pass 5 years.. I don't know. The fact that it "feels" Ecuatorian may be important for the market.
LA has proven that its not very important for a carrier to "feel" Ecuatorian, or for that matter Peruvian (LP) or Argentinian (4M). People put way more weight on the quality of service than on anything else.

The Aerogal brand isn't very deep rooted - they started flying jets (a single 727) only 7-8 years ago, and their first international route (of three they currently have) began in 2008. They currently have decent market share domestically yes - but there have been several airlines with that distinction through the years (ie. Ecuatoriana, Saeta, TAME).

And its not a name that itself evokes nationalism (ex. AM, MX, AR, BA, AF) - its short for Aero Galapagos which would be kind of like a Spanish airline being named Aero Canarias, or a Portuguese carrier being named Aero Azores. Kinda more fitting of a vacation charter airline.  Wink
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 18):
The SKYTEAM alliance would work best for Avianca for many reasons, its current connections with Air Fracne and Delta being the most important.

I agree. Most importantly SkyTeam's got a strong carrier in the region (DL), unlike *A which only has CO (which will seemingly always be married to CM anyways). On the European side both alliances are fairly equal, and same in regional carriers (AM with ST, JJ now with *A). You could even say the fact that ST has no Brazilian carrier yet could give a sizable boost to OceanAir.


Quoting jfk777 (Reply 18):
With Copa very likely joining Star, having Av, Taca and Copa in Star would make no sense. Copa's Panama hub is a great connection point for long haul, the terminal is much better then Bogota or Caracas.

For Lufthansa having Panama as their North Latin American connection point to match Sao Paulo as their southern Latin American connection point would be great. LH porbably would maintain the individual routes it has to Caracas, Buenos Aires and Mexico City.

The problem with CM is that PTY is a single low O&D connection point, so most *A carriers in Europe and North America aren't going to fly there. Thus for passengers most connections via CM would involve multiple stops.

Whereas AV-TA offers multiple higher density hubs (BOG, LIM, SJO), one of which already has or is more likely to have flights from say LH, LX, AC, TP, US or UA at some point. Same goes on the other end - AV (with a new fleet) is already flying to several cities in Europe and will begin to fly to Canada, whereas that's not in the horizon for CM.

[Edited 2010-03-22 08:14:41]

User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2569 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days ago) and read 9375 times:

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 19):
And its not a name that itself evokes nationalism (ex. AM, MX, AR, BA, AF) - its short for Aero Galapagos which would be kind of like a Spanish airline being named Aero Canarias, or a Portuguese carrier being named Aero Azores. Kinda more fitting of a vacation charter airline.

As I said, I don't think the name is that important one way or the other. Clearly Aerogal will not change name or livery for now. It may be that the old owners, now in a minority had the assurance to keep it sentimental token, or because they son't want to risk introducing a brand associated with Colombia and not Ecuador (and the nationalistic animosity should not be underestimated).

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 19):
I agree. Most importantly SkyTeam's got a strong carrier in the region (DL), unlike *A which only has CO (which will seemingly always be married to CM anyways).

But for Taca Star Alliance is crucial, or so they have said. AV does not do so much with DL anyway. They even stopped codesharing for a while. I guess thera are ways in which they can do the same or more with CO, UA and US.


User currently offlineACES320 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 393 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9103 times:

The fact that AV can operate long haul as opposite to CM is a plus in any alliance effort to lure them into joining. The issue that 20% of LA shares could be changing hands soon is also a determinant factor, not very tangible though, in One World reorganizing their strategy in South America. That would be the only hope we could see BOG - LHR back again, because if the IB - BA tie up finally takes place there is little chance of seeing such thing. I would not put my bets on it though. Efromovich is just playing the PR game now, as it is mandatory in this industry - Clark, Al-Baker, Udvar-Hazy just to name some loud voices out there.

[Finally back after 6 years of absence to airliners.net. Hello you all guys    ]



LHR, BHX, EDI, BKK, USM, CNX, PHU, GRU,PEI, BOG, CTG, CPH, AMS, DOH, DXB, FRA, MAD and always PEI
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 10000 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8977 times:

Quoting ACES320 (Reply 21):
[Finally back after 6 years of absence to airliners.net. Hello you all guys ]

That's nice ACES320!!! Why such a long absence? Looking at your nickname it takes me back to the time I saw two ACES A320's parked at the concourse in MIA near the AA maintenance hangar. Very nice aircraft!!! In any way, welcome back my friend!!!!

A388


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8625 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8965 times:
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Quoting ACES320 (Reply 21):
Finally back after 6 years of absence to airliners.net.

Wow ! You must have really upset one of the mods ... my longest ban was a week  
Quoting ACES320 (Reply 21):
The fact that AV can operate long haul as opposite to CM is a plus in any alliance effort to lure them into joining. The issue that 20% of LA shares could be changing hands soon is also a determinant factor, not very tangible though, in One World reorganizing their strategy in South America.

I agree that AV/TA seems to have bigger potential to offer *A than CM does (although I do wonder whether CM could inherit any of COs 767-200ERs which are relatively young and good 'entry level' equipment for intercontinental ops once CO starts to take delivery of their 787s ) I guess that we will just have to wait and see how it all plays out - although off topic it certainly is impressive how AV have turned around in the few short years since they re-organised under bankruptcy protection - from a nearly dead airline to the lynchpin in a South and Central American colossus - I wonder how many other airlines have managed such a remarkable change in such a short time .



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User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8935 times:

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 16):
they will be keeping the Aerogal name - which even in Ecuador is not that strong. Does any one really believe that the Aerogal brand will be around 5 years from now? It certainly does not make business sense to do so.

I think is a legal issue with ecuatorian laws, which limit foreign investment to 49% of an airline, IIRC. Efro explained that pretty well in the interview.

Quoting ACES320 (Reply 21):
The fact that AV can operate long haul as opposite to CM is a plus in any alliance effort to lure them into joining.

I think OW is already a strong player in the region, with LA, IB & AA. On the other hand, *A could really use an airline as AV to boost their presence in the region....but I'm with you, I think Efro is just playing pr right now, why he mentioned LHs CEO came to meet with him?? We shall wait and see.

777jaah

ps: Would any of you know why I've seen a couple of times several LH Cargo MD-11 being loaded at BOG?? I've asked this and no one has given me an answer.



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
25 LipeGIG : Looking to the strategy of each airline/alliance, AV is probably the bigger chance SkyTeam can have in South America right now. If they lose AV i can
26 danimarroquin : well , for me definitely ST is the best option for AV , since DT , AF , KL are involved already in the program . I think AV would have to see how LAN
27 carmenlu15 : Not quite - keep in mind that the current TA came to be from a merger of Central American airlines. Okay, so maybe the ticos still resent the fact th
28 OP3000 : True, although the animosity is more on the government level than in terms of the public. Even if it would be on the public level look at LA / LP - P
29 ACES320 : The Avianca and Taca brands will definetely remain. All other brands under the umbrella can be reshuffled as to give a stronger marketing proposal to
30 Post contains images aer : Hey I'm still resentful that the GU brand is gone But I do think that the corporate identities will remain for a good while, they'll merge them once
31 Post contains images 777jaah : Wasn't that because Sam had rights on some routes and the sticker was there only for legal reasons?? I wouldn't care much about name keeping.....put
32 Post contains images ACES320 : Not the full truth. It was mainly because of taxing and accountable principles purposes. Remember most of the MD fleet held a US registration, so und
33 Post contains images ACES320 : Well Cranfield University kept me busy as UK did. Not a single chance let's say. My nickname came from the days Aces operated MIA-BOG-PEI Pereira Mat
34 Post contains images carmenlu15 : I won't deny I miss it as well... memories of my first flight to FRS I just don't go as far as loathing TA for that... guess it was business after al
35 Post contains links danimarroquin : talking about BOG , looking at this video I saw this huge construction going on at the end of RWY13 L , any body knows what is it for ? http://www.you
36 aer : True, but actually truth be told, it was Vinicio after all.
37 Post contains links kiwiandrew : According to this article they are leaning towards *A but have not made a final decision . http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-honeymoon-with-star
38 RCS763AV : OK, here's the deal: CM is TACA's biggest competitor in central america, and steals a lot of AV's international connecting traffic. P5 (CM*) is the co
39 OP3000 : From the other interview in the OP in Spanish it sounded like LH had been pushing hard for AV/TA to join, whereas you don't hear about them having mu
40 SCL767 : Correct and this is evident in LAN's domestic LFs. Also, LAN Ecuador will operate daily into GPS come this September, I don't think that Aerogal like
41 Post contains images kiwiandrew : .. and rename the whole thing "SCADTA" ?
42 ACES320 : Clever. I still see the game at quite an early stage. They know the revenue advantage of joining and Alliance, however they seem to feel pretty comfo
43 jfk777 : Thanks to MR. Emfranovich Avianca has never been better, his quick and ambitious Airbus fleet program among the best thing. The Taca merger gives Avia
44 757MDE : I don't know about past loads, but I took this flight on March 18th (TA133) and it was pretty full, I was even offered a voucher to take another flig
45 OP3000 : One nice thing about DL is that its got a megahub in ATL, unlike UA which is sort of split between IAD and ORD. Which for a multihub group like AV/TA
46 kiwiandrew : I find the 'all eggs in one basket' approach to hubs less than satisfactory . What would be the flow on effect to AV/TA of any sort of massive disrup
47 OP3000 : DL also has JFK and DTW, and have a decent operation at LAX. Plus the weather disruptions at ATL are at least 30% less than either ORD or IAD. Indeed
48 777jaah : At last!!!! Thank you very much. You happen to know the routing of that flight?? I understand they bought only 49% of Aerogal, I might be wrong.... 7
49 Post contains images 757MDE : You're welcome! I know it arrives at BOG from VCP, but I am not sure if the UIO flight also continues to BOG sometimes as Cargolux and Martinair do.
50 Post contains links MATURRO727 : hey. More Info about the alliance decision and some other AV-TA operation stuff.(only in spanish, sorry) http://www.aviacol.net/noticias-del-...-estar
51 SJOtoLIR : Does it even make sense once LH has officially announced the resume of FRA-BOG-FRA service ? . Both [AV/TA] and JJ are basically operating in differe
52 OP3000 : I personally think its a negotiation ploy on LH's part. Other than LIM there's few places where JJ and AV would be similarly efficient in terms of a
53 fascm170 : TA is very close to become STAR member. Talks have been going on for awhile now and they code share with LH, US, UA in several key routes. Don't disco
54 danimarroquin : could this be possible ? could TA join star alliance , AV would join Sky team . both airlines take benefits of each other alliance . also , since they
55 avek00 : 1. Avianca, TACA, and Copa could absolutely co-exist in the same alliance, ESPECIALLY Star Alliance, which by design and function facilitates having m
56 SJOtoLIR : I totally agreed with. In despite to many posts here trying to link SkyTeam to TACA, the truth consists in Star Alliance as the only feasible choice
57 jfk777 : If Both groups were in Star but then no-Latin American airline( except Aeromexico) would be in Skyteam. AM works well for Mexico but not for coverage
58 777jaah : In that case, *A too. AC and CO already serve BOG and LH-AV will start serving BOG-FRA soon. Now, my bet is on *A, because they really need a partner
59 jfk777 : Air Canada has been selling its Toronto service as, "why connect in Miami with all the hassles" when you can avoid customs and go anywhere in the wor
60 avek00 : Star Alliance member carriers offer superior access compared to SkyTeam USA for the biggest markets for USA-Colombia traffic.
61 jfk777 : Star is weak in Miami, the main latin gateway to teh USA. JFK and LAX, teh other two traditional latin gateways, are also weak star airports. Contine
62 yellowtail : With the AV scissor hub PTY announcement...a crazy thought crossed my mind.... What if AV was in fact going to skyteam...and CM to Star......KLM would
63 EddieDude : Well, it is my understanding that CM and KL are, at this time, happy with their codeshare. If I am not mistaken, CM has kept its codeshare agreement
64 yellowtail : I know that There are code share sluts...but if LH were to start PTY service...CM might be forced to choose one or the other I see some gentle behind
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