Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
US-South America-US Traffic Numbers - SEP/09  
User currently offlineDanVS From Brazil, joined Jul 2009, 254 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 6 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3459 times:

TOP 20

AA MIA CCS 97,2%
AA DFW CCS 96,9%
CO IAH CCS 95,8%
DL GEO ATL 95,0%
AA JFK CCS 94,8%
NK MDE FLL 93,3%
AA CCS JFK 92,4%
DL ATL CCS 92,0%
AA EZE JFK 91,7%
AA JFK EZE 91,6%
LA LAX LIM 91,4%
LA MIA CCS 91,4%
AV MDE JFK 91,2%
CO LIM IAH 90,9%
AA VVI MIA 90,5%
XL GYE JFK 90,3%
LA LIM LAX 89,3%
CO IAH LIM 89,1%
AA MDE MIA 89,0%
LA LIM JFK 88,7%

BOTTOM 10

AA CCS DFW 62,9%
AA SCL MIA 61,1%
AV MIA CLO 60,6%
XL MIA UIO 59,6%
AV BAQ MIA 59,0%
AV BOG MIA 57,7%
AV BOG LAX 56,7%
AA MIA CLO 56,5%
AV MIA BAQ 55,8%
AV BOG FLL 50,7%

TOP 5 PER COUNTRY

ARGENTINA
AA EZE JFK 91,7%
AA JFK EZE 91,6%
AA MIA EZE 85,9%
AA EZE MIA 82,3%
4M EZE MIA 81,7%

BOLIVIA
AA VVI MIA 90,5%
AA MIA LPB 85,2%
5L VVI MIA 68,2%
5L MIA VVI 64,0%

CHILE
LA SCL JFK 87,6%
LA JFK SCL 84,0%
LA SCL MIA 80,0%
LA MIA SCL 79,8%
DL ATL SCL 67,3%

COLOMBIA
NK MDE FLL 93,3%
AV MDE JFK 91,2%
AA MDE MIA 89,0%
B6 BOG MCO 88,7%
CO BOG EWR 87,7%

ECUADOR
XL GYE JFK 90,3%
DL UIO ATL 81,8%
AA UIO MIA 75,2%
CO UIO IAH 73,8%
XL UIO MIA 69,4%

GUYANA
DL GEO ATL 95,0%
DL JFK GEO 85,5%

PERU
LA LAX LIM 91,4%
CO LIM IAH 90,9%
LA LIM LAX 89,3%
CO IAH LIM 89,1%
LA LIM JFK 88,7%

VENEZUELA
AA MIA CCS 97,2%
AA DFW CCS 96,9%
CO IAH CCS 95,8%
AA JFK CCS 94,8%
AA CCS JFK 92,4%

TOP 5 PER AIRLINE


AA MIA CCS 97,2%
AA DFW CCS 96,9%
AA JFK CCS 94,8%
AA CCS JFK 92,4%
AA EZE JFK 91,7%


AV MDE JFK 91,2%
AV JFK MDE 82,5%
AV MIA MDE 77,9%
AV MDE MIA 77,4%
AV BOG IAD 76,0%


CO IAH CCS 95,8%
CO LIM IAH 90,9%
CO IAH LIM 89,1%
CO BOG EWR 87,7%
CO EWR BOG 80,0%


DL GEO ATL 95,0%
DL ATL CCS 92,0%
DL LIM ATL 85,9%
DL JFK GEO 85,5%
DL UIO ATL 81,8%


LA LAX LIM 91,4%
LA MIA CCS 91,4%
LA LIM LAX 89,3%
LA LIM JFK 88,7%
LA SCL JFK 87,6%


NK MDE FLL 93,3%
NK BOG FLL 84,7%
NK LIM FLL 83,6%
NK CTG FLL 80,4%
NK FLL MDE 80,1%

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7615 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3411 times:

DFW-CCS has a 97% load factor? Wow.

I wonder if AA would give thought to upping the frequency to a couple more flights per week.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineSHAQ From Panama, joined Jun 2007, 378 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3379 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 1):

They can't !
You know how is the crazy Government of Chavez.
That's why loads and yields are so high in Venezuela's routes



Studying hard, for flying right!
User currently offlineaznmadsci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3670 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3345 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 1):
DFW-CCS has a 97% load factor? Wow.

Just by the numbers, more people want to go to do DFW-CCS than CCS-DFW? I don't blame them! Who wants to go to DFW?   

All kidding aside, that is an odd discrepancy, or would those coming from CCS rather connect via MIA than DFW?



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineLanPeru From Peru, joined Jun 2001, 645 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3237 times:

It's amazing how back in the 90s going LAX-LIM was not an up to TWICE DAILY frequency, but rather a WEEKLY flight... Although I am not in favor of a monopoly in ANY idustry, I am glad LA/LP is doing an awesome job at providing frequency and quality on routes to/from LIM.

I am also noticing that LIM did well in general! WOO!


User currently offlinesflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3070 times:

Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 3):
Just by the numbers, more people want to go to do DFW-CCS than CCS-DFW? I don't blame them! Who wants to go to DFW?

All kidding aside, that is an odd discrepancy, or would those coming from CCS rather connect via MIA than DFW?

yeah, I noticed that too. Kinda wierd. That number is definitely way different. Maybe you hit the answer though.

Quoting SHAQ (Reply 2):
That's why loads and yields are so high in Venezuela's routes

Yeah, yields have been off the charts. I've seen adv purchase coach for upto 800.00 round trip ex MIA. That is crazy for a 3 hour flight. Supply and demand baby.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7615 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3017 times:

Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 3):
Just by the numbers, more people want to go to do DFW-CCS than CCS-DFW? I don't blame them! Who wants to go to DFW?

I dont know, the loads for IAH-CCS are really high too. I cant I blame them either. Caracas is certainly preferable to HELLston.  

On a more serious note, I guess thats what happens when a market has restricted access like that. In a way, I bet the airlines love it.

Disclaimer: I actally like Houston (not as much as DFW, but still   ), but since Collin and I a friends on facebook, I figured we could banter.  



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2892 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Including Brazil, which makes 4 out of the top 20: JFK-GRU-GIG, GIG-GRU-JFK and GIG-MIA with AA, plus MIA-GRU with JJ.

Quoting DanVS (Thread starter):
TOP 20 (revised, including Brazil)

AA MIA CCS 97,2%
AA DFW CCS 96,9%
CO IAH CCS 95,8%
DL GEO ATL 95,0%
AA JFK CCS 94,8%
NK MDE FLL 93,3%
AA CCS JFK 92,4%
AA JFK GRU GIG 92.4%
DL ATL CCS 92,0%
AA GIG GRU JFK 91.9%
AA EZE JFK 91,7%
AA JFK EZE 91,6%
LA LAX LIM 91,4%
LA MIA CCS 91,4%
AV MDE JFK 91,2%
JJ MIA GRU 91.1%
AA GIG MIA 90.9%
CO LIM IAH 90,9%
AA VVI MIA 90,5%
XL GYE JFK 90,3%

That's bad for Brazil... 5 out of the 10 including the 3 worst routes.

Quoting DanVS (Thread starter):
BOTTOM 10


JJ MAO MIA 58.9%
AV BOG MIA 57,7%
AV BOG LAX 56,7%
AA MIA CLO 56,5%
AV MIA BAQ 55,8%
JJ MIA MAO 54.3%
AV BOG FLL 50,7%
KE GRU LAX 50.6%
DL MAO ATL 47.9%
DL ATL MAO 46.6%

Average data for Brazil is improving but still not so marvellous.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinesflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2860 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):

Average data for Brazil is improving but still not so marvellous.

I wonder how much of that has to do with visa rules. I'm not talking about virtual visas like Chile or Argentina where one basically pays to get in. I know that personally, I haven't spent time any leisure time in Brazil because I'm too lazy to do the whole visa thing. Just easier to travel to a non visa or virtual visa country. I wonder if those percentages are more leisure travellers, more business travellers or a combo of both.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2809 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting sflaflight (Reply 8):
I wonder how much of that has to do with visa rules. I'm not talking about virtual visas like Chile or Argentina where one basically pays to get in. I know that personally, I haven't spent time any leisure time in Brazil because I'm too lazy to do the whole visa thing. Just easier to travel to a non visa or virtual visa country. I wonder if those percentages are more leisure travellers, more business travellers or a combo of both

A little part in my view. There's a lot to consider, first the fact US-Brazil-US is more business than leisure, second, to develop leisure, Brazil need more investments in marketing (it's almost zero, and i shall say that DL investment on routes is probably bigger than the Federal Government), in trainning (it's easy to see that many hotels and areas are not ready to deal even with english speakers) and of course, the visa !

If you ask me how many tourists Brazil can receive with a non-visa rule, i would reply with 200,000 every year, but the big winner would be the United States that may receive 300,000 Brazilians every year.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17508 posts, RR: 45
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2789 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
That's bad for Brazil... 5 out of the 10 including the 3 worst routes.

First, the usual caveat: high load factors do not equate to profitable flights. DL ran very healthy LFs in POS and they're axing the whole country. WN runs one of the lowest average LFs in the industry and is one of the more profitable carriers. Second, the 3 worst are no surprise whatsoever. You'll have reason to worry when GRULAX and ATLMAO are full and successful because that means hell has frozen over.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2924 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2738 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
You'll have reason to worry when GRULAX and ATLMAO are full and successful because that means hell has frozen over.

Best line ever. HAA HAA HAA

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
That's bad for Brazil... 5 out of the 10 including the 3 worst routes.

These figurs are for September 2009, correct? Is that a busy time to Brazil?


User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2561 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2661 times:

Quoting DanVS (Thread starter):
BOTTOM 10

AA CCS DFW 62,9%
AA SCL MIA 61,1%
AV MIA CLO 60,6%
XL MIA UIO 59,6%
AV BAQ MIA 59,0%
AV BOG MIA 57,7%
AV BOG LAX 56,7%
AA MIA CLO 56,5%
AV MIA BAQ 55,8%
AV BOG FLL 50,7%

Wow, AV has 6 in bottom 10! BOG-FLL is terrible, which shows how this route is particularly seasonally affected. And that was even before having another player on the route, which we have now: Aires. This airline will this week start other routes: CLO-FLL and MDE-BAQ-FLL, and more coming up. We'll see how they do on CLO, considering that MIA-CLO does not seem a strong route off season. We see it was bad for both AV and AA last September. Some low fares brought in by Aires might do the trick.

Quoting DanVS (Thread starter):
COLOMBIA
NK MDE FLL 93,3%
AV MDE JFK 91,2%
AA MDE MIA 89,0%
B6 BOG MCO 88,7%
CO BOG EWR 87,7%

FLL-MDE-FLL had reduced frequencies Sept to Nov. 4 weekly and then 2, so squeezed offer. However, great that MDE always seems to feature among the top load factors routes.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2359 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
First, the usual caveat: high load factors do not equate to profitable flights. DL ran very healthy LFs in POS and they're axing the whole country. WN runs one of the lowest average LFs in the industry and is one of the more profitable carriers. Second, the 3 worst are no surprise whatsoever. You'll have reason to worry when GRULAX and ATLMAO are full and successful because that means hell has frozen over.

I believe it's not equal, but considering cargo is also not strong on such routes, i can't say it's not profitable but for sure is not so profitable. Fares to MAO and FOR for example are as high as GIG for example, but of course, due to the lack of premium demand, the average fare will be lower.
I can say to you that ATLMAO looks like better and improving right now. Is it a good route ? Only DL knows.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 11):
These figurs are for September 2009, correct? Is that a busy time to Brazil?

It is a lot busy but last year was not so great. Industry recovering and US-Brazil demand was not "hot"

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 12):
Wow, AV has 6 in bottom 10! BOG-FLL is terrible, which shows how this route is particularly seasonally affected. And that was even before having another player on the route, which we have now: Aires

It seems Colombia-US have a lot of capacity to handle the high season, but it's a little to much for off-season. Is that the case ?



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineworldtraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2255 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 13):
Fares to MAO and FOR for example are as high as GIG for example, but of course, due to the lack of premium demand, the average fare will be lower.

Well, actually, the average fares to MAO are higher than what other carriers are getting on much longer routes - and the costs are a whole lot lower due to the smaller aircraft.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 13):
I can say to you that ATLMAO looks like better and improving right now.

Given that JJ is also consistently doing well, it says that the problem is simply that the market is not ready for the level of service that is being provided.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 13):
It seems Colombia-US have a lot of capacity to handle the high season, but it's a little to much for off-season. Is that the case ?

sure looks like it.... the LF differences between the different countries of northern S. America is amazing.

Felipe,
word is that Brazil will reach the level of e-passports by next year as required by the US government in order to lift the tourist visa requirement. Can you advise what you know?


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2208 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 14):
Well, actually, the average fares to MAO are higher than what other carriers are getting on much longer routes - and the costs are a whole lot lower due to the smaller aircraft

But the LF is very low compared to the others. I no the cost is lower as they use the 73W, but i just see the results with cargo are very low as the 73W can't compete with other planes.

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 14):
Given that JJ is also consistently doing well, it says that the problem is simply that the market is not ready for the level of service that is being provided.

It's not so consistent. Performance was very good on 08/2009 but below average on 09/2009. JJ problem is the early morning MIA-MAO flight... they need to fix it as it just works good on peak season. It avoid connections (good for DL!)

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 14):
Felipe,
word is that Brazil will reach the level of e-passports by next year as required by the US government in order to lift the tourist visa requirement. Can you advise what you know?

What i know is that there's a project on Casa da Moeda ("Currency House") where Real bills and passports are issued, to upgrade to the e-passport. It's something for 2011. Greece just got the visa waiver with indicators similar to Brazil, but less wait and see for better information.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineworldtraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2147 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 15):
But the LF is very low compared to the others. I no the cost is lower as they use the 73W, but i just see the results with cargo are very low as the 73W can't compete with other planes.

No one is making money on the new Brazil flights except for possibly a couple weeks at Christmas and Carnaval season. It's only a matter of losing the least amount of money. The 73W and DL's reduced frequencies allow reduced losses - the size of losses cannot be made up by cargo.

Good to hear the process on the visa waiver is moving forward. That will be the single biggest factor in making many new Brazil routes work and existing ones even stronger.


User currently offlinecayman From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 905 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2133 times:

Politics aside, for the consumer and traveler the restricitive or even obstructionist approach of Venezuelan government to allow expanded service, frequency, routes, seats, it's all just bad for the flying public. It is too hard and far too expensive to get flights from any major US hub to CCS and secondary vzlan airports, really frustarting to see fares MIA CCS that are higher than many destinations to Europe. During peak times like xmas or semana santa (easter) might as well give up on getting a seat.

If ever there were a liberalization and relaxation of the rules, assuming slot granted, I've always wondered if AA would consider adding MIA PMV? I fly to PMV very often and am always amazed at the connecting traffic via CCS. It certainly seems AA could fill a daily on PMV but I realize it's a pipe dream under current statist regime in Venezuela.

I note AC is increasing frequency in YYZ CCS, by chance does anyone know how they do load factor and yield? Anecdotally the flights seem quite full, there are plenty of Venezuelans in Canada, enough to justify the route, and because flights via connection in any major US hub tend to be expensive AC competes quite favourably on price.


User currently offlineAirFranceJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 480 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2068 times:

Delta flies JFK to GEO and GEO to JFK, not ATL.

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2015 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 16):
No one is making money on the new Brazil flights except for possibly a couple weeks at Christmas and Carnaval season. It's only a matter of losing the least amount of money. The 73W and DL's reduced frequencies allow reduced losses - the size of losses cannot be made up by cargo.

I would say US is making money on their new route. And even this month, seems getting good loads and fares are not so bad for a 762 already amortized (probably).



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineworldtraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1992 times:

and what about all of those startup costs they just incurred?

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1858 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 20):
and what about all of those startup costs they just incurred?

It's not so huge. Nowadays what you need is to rent the office, open the company in Brazil, buy a few office equipment (which are not expensive at all) and hire just the sales team. Airport staff in Brazil is a third party service.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineACES320 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 393 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1742 times:

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 12):
Wow, AV has 6 in bottom 10!

Remember the through services. MED is used as a stop over on the originating flight from CLO, as it is CTG to MIA on the flight originating from PEI. So the figures could be biased. This was discussed on another forum earlier regarding loads in the Colombian market.



LHR, BHX, EDI, BKK, USM, CNX, PHU, GRU,PEI, BOG, CTG, CPH, AMS, DOH, DXB, FRA, MAD and always PEI
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
US-South America-US Pax Traffic Numbers - JUL/09 posted Sun Jan 24 2010 09:54:55 by DanVS
US-South America Traffic Numbers -JUN/09 posted Fri Dec 18 2009 11:07:44 by DanVS
US-Brazil Traffic Numbers JUN/2009 posted Wed Dec 16 2009 21:33:52 by LipeGIG
US-Brazil Traffic Stats (pax/cargo) Jan/09 posted Sun Jul 19 2009 11:59:06 by LipeGIG
US Market Share Changes Jan '10 Vs '09 posted Wed Feb 10 2010 12:56:51 by MasseyBrown
London - US June Traffic posted Fri Jul 31 2009 11:22:47 by MasseyBrown
US-Brazil Brazil-US - DEC/08 Numbers posted Fri Jun 12 2009 21:09:42 by LipeGIG
US 1549 On Discovery Channel 3/4/09 posted Wed Feb 25 2009 18:05:44 by Litz
US - Mexico Traffic Data posted Tue Oct 2 2007 19:42:19 by Laxintl
US - Mexico Traffic Data posted Tue Oct 2 2007 19:22:04 by Laxintl