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777's At MSP  
User currently offlineJRicco7X7 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 9 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8955 times:

Now that the merger between DL and NW is pretty much finalized, are there any plans to locate some of DL's 777 at MSP?

Thanks for any answers

jricco7x7

55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8947 times:

No plans yet - but I've long contended that it's entirely likely that by the time fleet rationalization is complete, we'll have a 772 on MSP-NRT. Our 744s are crewed by pilots from the DTW pilot base, anyhow, so it's no more trouble to swap a 772, which ultimately fits more in line with MSP's place a primarily domestic hub, like DEN or SLC.


"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineJRicco7X7 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8900 times:

Is there any word out there about a possible Int'l expansion out of MSP at all that would allow this to happen?

User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7499 posts, RR: 28
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8872 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 1):
No plans yet - but I've long contended that it's entirely likely that by the time fleet rationalization is complete, we'll have a 772 on MSP-NRT.

Realistically that is the only possible 777 route out of MSP. However I'm not so sure we will see that route switch from a 744 to a 777 anytime soon. Based on DL's current network strategy, their growth to Asia is primarily based around DTW and SEA. There is no indication, rumor, or hearsay about MSP picking up any new Asia routes anytime soon. With the single-daily flight to NRT, switching from a 744 to a 777 would be a significant drop in capacity.
Unless the route is performing that poorly or DL plans to pump more of the Asia (NRT) connections over other hubs, then it is likely to stay as a 744 for awhile. DL is going to put their limited amount of 777s where they can truly maxize the value of the range/capacity profile.


User currently onlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8794 times:

Quoting JRicco7X7 (Thread starter):
Now that the merger between DL and NW is pretty much finalized, are there any plans to locate some of DL's 777 at MSP?

Now this would have been a sight...  


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User currently offlinePHXtoDCAtoMSP From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8713 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 1):
No plans yet - but I've long contended that it's entirely likely that by the time fleet rationalization is complete, we'll have a 772 on MSP-NRT. Our 744s are crewed by pilots from the DTW pilot base, anyhow, so it's no more trouble to swap a 772, which ultimately fits more in line with MSP's place a primarily domestic hub, like DEN or SLC.

MSP-NRT has had the least amount of changes of all NRT routes. I think it is safe to say that with the 744s going in for overhauls, MSP-NRT will remain a 744.

-MSP-NRT lost one of 8 weekly frequencies after the merger. So from 8x 744 to 7x 744
-DTW-NRT went from 14x 744 to 11x 744 to 7x 744 since the merger
-ATL-NRT went from 7x 777 to 4x 777 and 7x 744, and then to 7x 744, then to 10x 777 before reverting back to 7x 777 before the 10x ever started
-LAX-NRT went from 7x 744 to 7x 332 for a short 2 months and then to 7x 744 and then to 7x 332 and 4x 777 before going back to 7x 332 before the previous schedule started
-PDX-NRT has gone from 7x 332 to 7x 763
-SEA-NRT went from 7x 332 (and 3x 333 in the summer) to 7x 333
-JFK-NRT went from 7x 777 to 7x 744
-SLC-NRT went from announced 6x 332 to 5x 332, then suspended and now back to 5x 332
-SFO-NRT is going from 7x 332 to 7x 763


I think it is pretty clear that MSP-NRT has been the most stable NRT route. If DL wanted to shuffle capacity because it underperforms in any way they would have already done it (especially when you consider that they have basically done it on every other NRT route)


User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2202 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 8240 times:

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 3):
Based on DL's current network strategy, their growth to Asia is primarily based around DTW and SEA. There is no indication, rumor, or hearsay about MSP picking up any new Asia routes anytime soon.

I'm still hoping DL (or, better yet for us MSP spotters, KE) will add MSP-ICN at some point. I think this route could be a success, because it would be more direct than DTW-ICN for passengers who reside in the area between DTW and MSP.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineSYfan100 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7837 times:

From members on past boards when talking about the MSP to NRT route. That plane has always been full for the most part in which all 400 seats on that Boeing 747-400 so to down grade it wouldn't be the best move.
Now maybe with a second MSP to NRT flight that instead of another Boeing 747-400 that you have a 777, but I have no clue what the yields are for that second NRT flight out of MSP?
If both planes are full daily then it would be a mistake to get rid of both 747 flights.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7499 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7755 times:

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 6):
I'm still hoping DL (or, better yet for us MSP spotters, KE) will add MSP-ICN at some point. I think this route could be a success, because it would be more direct than DTW-ICN for passengers who reside in the area between DTW and MSP.

That isn't going to happen anytime soon. DTW hasn't even started yet. There is minimal backtracking at all from anyone in the Midwest headed to ICN via DTW.


User currently offlineisitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 7679 times:

While changing at DTW a couple of months or so back, I saw a DL777 parked with the flight board saying it was going to Heathrow. I dont remember the exact date because I go through there so much. It was Dec or Jan.

   It was a triple seven because of the tri wheel main gear arrangement.
safe



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User currently offlineaf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2652 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7552 times:

If DL does take the 787s then I could see MSP-ICN happening. If they don't, or defer the order for awhile then I'm sure KE could make it work.


It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3464 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7296 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 1):
No plans yet - but I've long contended that it's entirely likely that by the time fleet rationalization is complete, we'll have a 772 on MSP-NRT.

It was said at an investor relations meeting a while ago that MSP-NRT was NW's most profitable transpacific route. I doubt that has changed given the consistency of the service. Because of that I doubt that they'd cut capacity by 40% by moving from a 744 to a 777. MSP could have easily been in the position of DTW in terms of transpacific flights this summer, but DL has instead chosen to focus on DTW as its transpacific gateway due to its new terminal. MSP has more capacity than DTW as well as an equal, if not better position as a transpacific gateway. O&D from DTW to Asia is no stronger than MSP's other than NGO, which benefits from the Toyota connections. MSP once had nonstop service to both KIX and HKG back in the 1990s. Those were the good ole days...

Jeremy


User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12199 posts, RR: 35
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7284 times:
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Quoting SESGDL (Reply 11):
DL has instead chosen to focus on DTW as its transpacific gateway due to its new terminal

As much as I love MSP, since it's my home.....the terminal in DTW is superior (except for the windows)



911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3464 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7269 times:

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 12):
As much as I love MSP, since it's my home.....the terminal in DTW is superior (except for the windows)

Absolutely. But MSP is still a very nice (and presumably profitable) airport.

Jeremy


User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9245 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7244 times:

Quoting isitsafenow (Reply 9):

While changing at DTW a couple of months or so back, I saw a DL777 parked with the flight board saying it was going to Heathrow. I dont remember the exact date because I go through there so much. It was Dec or Jan.

It was a 767, The 777 (unless it was a sub, but i haven't seen any) hasn't done any LHR flights say the ferrys to LHR for the srap stuff so they could fly to SYD, but they were ferrys.
DTW-LHR has seen the 330, 763(?) and 764.



yep.
User currently offlinecompensateme From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1020 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7182 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 11):
t was said at an investor relations meeting a while ago that MSP-NRT was NW's most profitable transpacific route.

I seriously doubt MSP-NRT is, or recently was, DL's most profitable transpacific route, nor am I aware of NW/DL stating publicly that it was. From my time with NW, MSP-NRT (as well as DTW-NRT) was filled with many passengers traveling on bulk tickets; MSP-NRT had the weakest O/D. It could be argued that both these routes would be better off a 777.

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 11):
MSP could have easily been in the position of DTW in terms of transpacific flights this summer, but DL has instead chosen to focus on DTW as its transpacific gateway due to its new terminal... MSP has more capacity than DTW as well as an equal, if not better position as a transpacific gateway.
MSP certainly has the terminal capacity to handle the service to Asia that DTW's receiving; MSP is also consistently ranked one of the top airports in the country. And despite those facts, plus your belief that MSP is a better geographically as a transpacific gateway with similar (better?) O/D than DTW, you believe DTW's being positioned as a traspacific gateway because of its terminal? You're a little too bias toward your hometown; if what you believed were true, then there's no question MSP would be the traspacific gateway - not DTW. Delta's in the business of making money, after all.

And for the spring/summer schedules, domestic capacity between DTW & MSP is similar but -- as the schedules are right now -- DTW will hold a small edge on MSP.

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 13):
Absolutely. But MSP is still a very nice (and presumably profitable) airport.

I think you're naive if you believe MSP was immune from the huge losses NW reported last decade. Maybe it'd be fair to say MSP was NW's strongest performing hub, but it'd be unfair to say profitable.

[Edited 2010-03-24 17:22:45]


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User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3464 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 6958 times:

Quoting compensateme (Reply 15):
And despite those facts, plus your belief that MSP is a better geographically as a transpacific gateway with similar (better?) O/D than DTW, you believe DTW's being positioned as a traspacific gateway because of its terminal?

In many ways, yes. DL/NW must recoup some of the nearly $1 billion spent on the World Gateway at DTW. DTW's O&D is dismal for a city of its size, and from a recent market study I saw DTW's O&D had declined heavily as of the 3Q last year while MSP was up nearly 8%. DL/NW has shifted a huge amount of capacity out of DTW, whilst it has more flights and more destinations DTW has less mainline flights and quite a bit less capacity than MSP due to MSP generally having larger equipment on flights.

Quoting compensateme (Reply 15):
And for the spring/summer schedules, domestic capacity between DTW & MSP is similar but -- as the schedules are right now -- DTW will hold a small edge on MSP.

I haven't seen this, whilst DTW has more flights MSP still has considerably more capacity. DTW is nearly all DC-9s anywhere within 1,000 miles of DTW.

Jeremy


User currently offlinecompensateme From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1020 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 6912 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 16):
In many ways, yes. DL/NW must recoup some of the nearly $1 billion spent on the World Gateway at DTW.

Huh? The McNamara Terminal was not funded with NW's money. And DL's heavily downsized CVG, despite the outstanding debt that remains from building the facility for DL. Sorry, but DTW became an Asian gateway over MSP because NW - and now DL - thinks that's how it came make the most money. DTW's economy has largely declined, but it's still a stronger market to Asia than MSP.

Your argument is clearly built around emotion. If DL thought it could make more money flying to Asia from MSP, then it would; it's stuck paying the leases at DTW whether it uses the gates or not--it'd use profits from MSP's Asian flights to pay for dormant gates at DTW. DL's not a charity. It's flying to Asia from DTW because it thinks DTW will be more successful.

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 16):
I haven't seen this, whilst DTW has more flights MSP still has considerably more capacity. DTW is nearly all DC-9s anywhere within 1,000 miles of DTW.

Per the spring/summer schedule's, DTW and MSP are nearly dead even in domestic capacity (actual seats & ASM); as of right now, DTW has a slight edge. That edge could swing by the time the schedules are finalized but considering the size of the two hubs, it illustrates they're more-or-less even.

[Edited 2010-03-24 18:40:59]


Hypocrisy: "US airlines should only buy Boeing... BTW, check out my new Hyundai!"
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 6844 times:

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 3):
Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 1):
No plans yet - but I've long contended that it's entirely likely that by the time fleet rationalization is complete, we'll have a 772 on MSP-NRT.

Realistically that is the only possible 777 route out of MSP. However I'm not so sure we will see that route switch from a 744 to a 777 anytime soon. Based on DL's current network strategy, their growth to Asia is primarily based around DTW and SEA. There is no indication, rumor, or hearsay about MSP picking up any new Asia routes anytime soon. With the single-daily flight to NRT, switching from a 744 to a 777 would be a significant drop in capacity.
Unless the route is performing that poorly or DL plans to pump more of the Asia (NRT) connections over other hubs, then it is likely to stay as a 744 for awhile. DL is going to put their limited amount of 777s where they can truly maxize the value of the range/capacity profile.

I think we have yet to see DL's long-term vision in capacity management. I love MSP, but ultimately as more Asia capacity flies over NRT, I think we could see the fleet shift. With 5 744s going away, they become very scarce - and the question becomes where can they make the most money. MSP-NRT was the most profitable route in the old NW system, for sure - but can those pax now be more profitably connecting other ways is the question?

I think long term, we'll see a 777 on that route.

Quoting compensateme (Reply 15):
MSP certainly has the terminal capacity to handle the service to Asia that DTW's receiving; MSP is also consistently ranked one of the top airports in the country. And despite those facts, plus your belief that MSP is a better geographically as a transpacific gateway with similar (better?) O/D than DTW, you believe DTW's being positioned as a traspacific gateway because of its terminal? You're a little too bias toward your hometown; if what you believed were true, then there's no question MSP would be the traspacific gateway - not DTW. Delta's in the business of making money, after all.

It actually does have to do with the buildings. Whereas DTW has more people, the MSP economy is very strong - no us metro larger than MSP has lower unemployment except DC... and the way the federal gov't has been handing out money lately, it's hardly an even comparison. Many of MSP's major businesses are strong and growing in the recession. Travel budgets are coming back for companies like Target, Best Buy, Cargill, and the like with substantial business interests in Asia. Whereas in DTW - 2 of the big 3 auto manufacturers are studying moving HQ. It will be some time before DTW's economy is back.

DTW does have - what is without a doubt - the finest terminal for international connections in North America - with tons and tons of capacity for int'l flights.

MSP, on the other hand - does have a huge, beautiful and functional terminal, but it has only a handful of widebody capable gates and a small FIS area with a limited number of desks - so it is fairly limited in its overseas flight capacity. Geographically - MSP and DTW are 500 miles apart, that has little to nothing to do with it.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8892 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6774 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 18):

MSP, on the other hand - does have a huge, beautiful and functional terminal, but it has only a handful of widebody capable gates and a small FIS area with a limited number of desks - so it is fairly limited in its overseas flight capacity. Geographically - MSP and DTW are 500 miles apart, that has little to nothing to do with it.

While MSP does have some terminal capacity, the most widebodies that the international gates can handle is 4 (plus G1 which is a narrowbody only gate). As it stands, in the summers all four gates are tied up at once at 3 p.m., with a 747 to NRT, a 767 to CDG and 2x A330-300s to AMS. Now granted, more Asian flights wouldn't be there at the same time, but it's still tight. Add in the rather small FIS area at MSP that can become tight when two full flights get in at the same time and you're asking for trouble. Now, the MSP2020 vision (which includes a new FIS on the extended concourse G) would alleviate a lot of these constraints - however that is many years in the future.

Add in the fact that for the bulk of customers, there is little difference (or DTW is preferable!) between MSP/DTW makes DTW a better choice. There is more limited demand for smaller cities in the Northeast to MSP, but there is the demand to route those folks over DTW. At the end of the day, the bulk of the population in this country is closer to DTW - which has service to those smaller communities (which MSP doesn't have as much, or any of). More connectivity at DTW for these flights from that.


User currently offlinecompensateme From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1020 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6663 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 18):
Many of MSP's major businesses are strong and growing in the recession... It will be some time before DTW's economy is back.

Perhaps MSP's local demand for Asian services will outgrow those of DTW (whether it's organically, through continued decline at DTW or a combination of both) -- but it hasn't happened yet, hence DL's decision to retain & expand DTW as an Asian gateway.

Quote:
It actually does have to do with the buildings. MSP... has only a handful of widebody capable gates and a small FIS area with a limited number of desks - so it is fairly limited in its overseas flight capacity.
MSP could very easily absorb the PVG, ICN and HKG flights. 10 years ago I connected from NRT at MSP, there were two NRT flights, a KIX flight and AMS flight -- each operating with a 747 -- arriving within a short time frame. The crowd was very manageable and the situation better than what I've encountered elsewhere. DL's using smaller 777 with more staggered arrival times... there's absolutely no shortage of space.

Bias and emotions aside, DL's choosing DTW as its Asian gateway over MSP for one reason: money -- it thinks it can be more successful at DTW. Perhaps that will change in the future, but that's not the situation status quo.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 18):
MSP-NRT was the most profitable route in the old NW system, for sure - but can those pax now be more profitably connecting other ways is the question?

MSP-NRT was NW's most profitable route "for sure?" What's your source? Again, people are passing off emotion as fact.

[Edited 2010-03-24 19:41:09]


Hypocrisy: "US airlines should only buy Boeing... BTW, check out my new Hyundai!"
User currently offlinePanAm788 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6578 times:

I don't have any empirics so don't kill me, but I live in MSP and I know a little bit.

First of all, while DTW has been on the decline for sometime, MSP is growing economically. Most people don't know this but we have around 15 maybe more Fortune 500 companies in the area: Target, General Mills, Best Buy, Travelers, Ecolab, US Bank, PepsiAmericas, and Ameriprise just to name a few. This leads to a lot of business traffic, a lot of it headed to Asia or Europe.

Secondly, from what I've heard on here before, take it or leave it, is that MSP-NRT performs extremely well. As it is the only flight from here to Asia this makes sense. We have about 3/4 of Detroit's economy, but only one flight to their many. Although I have never been on the flight personally, but I have been on MSP-AMS numerous times and that flight is always almost completely full (of course, this doesn't mean much). A switch to a 772 would basically cut MSP-NRT's capacity in half and I don't see that happening. The absolute most I could see it being cut is like 4* weekly 744 and 3* weekly 772.

So for a 777 appearing at MSP, I'd say that it will happen eventually, but I doubt it'll be from a NRT-MSP reduction in capacity. Most likely a new route: MSP - ICN or something.



heroes get remembered but legends never die
User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9245 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6542 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 18):
With 5 744s going away, they become very scarce

huh? Delta isn't parking any 744s at this time and all 16 will be getting Lie-flats/overhaul in Y(new seat/PTVs etc etc)



yep.
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7499 posts, RR: 28
Reply 23, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6469 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 16):
DL/NW has shifted a huge amount of capacity out of DTW, whilst it has more flights and more destinations DTW has less mainline flights and quite a bit less capacity than MSP due to MSP generally having larger equipment on flights.

Under the NW era this was true, I don't believe this statement is true anymore with the upcoming 2010 summer schedule.

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 16):
I haven't seen this, whilst DTW has more flights MSP still has considerably more capacity. DTW is nearly all DC-9s anywhere within 1,000 miles of DTW.

NW only has about 2-3 routes still where they fly the DC-9 farther than 600 miles. Plus, remember a DC-9-50 is the same thing as an A319. The DC-9-50 is well within the range to do many, many DTW-East Coast routes. MSP-East Coast is not, hence why they need the Airbus.

Quoting compensateme (Reply 17):
Huh? The McNamara Terminal was not funded with NW's money. And DL's heavily downsized CVG, despite the outstanding debt that remains from building the facility for DL. Sorry, but DTW became an Asian gateway over MSP because NW - and now DL - thinks that's how it came make the most money. DTW's economy has largely declined, but it's still a stronger market to Asia than MSP.

Yes, DTW O&D has decreased, however DTW is being propped up because DL has shifted a lot of the CVG capacity and connections now over DTW. Hence why DTW is staying even, if not growing slightly over last year.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 18):
With 5 744s going away, they become very scarce - and the question becomes where can they make the most money. MSP-NRT was the most profitable route in the old NW system, for sure - but can those pax now be more profitably connecting other ways is the question?

Unless I missed something recently, where did DL say they were getting rid of 5 744's? I thought the plan was to refurbish the entire fleet of 16 744's.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 18):
Whereas in DTW - 2 of the big 3 auto manufacturers are studying moving HQ. It will be some time before DTW's economy is back.

I live in Metro Detroit. I have not ever once heard it mentiond that ANY of the 3 auto companies were considering relocating outside of Southeastern Michigan. This is a completely untrue statement, period.


User currently offlinecompensateme From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1020 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6413 times:

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 23):
Under the NW era this was true, I don't believe this statement is true anymore with the upcoming 2010 summer schedule.

His statement is half true: MSP does, in general, see larger equipment than DTW; however, this summer DTW will peak at about 70 more daily departures than MSP. Even though many of those departures are operated with 50-seaters, it's enough to balance the domestic capacity offered. The other half of his statement's wrong: DL's been injecting more capacity into DTW than MSP over the past several months, largely at the expense of CVG (as you mentioned). Not coincidentally, in its summer schedule, DL's removed capacity from DTW in the markets it plans to increase at CVG. Should CVG be scaled back further this fall, DTW will likely see additional increases.

Quoting PanAm788 (Reply 21):
First of all, while DTW has been on the decline for sometime, MSP is growing economically. Most people don't know this but we have around 15 maybe more Fortune 500 companies...


My response was directed toward another poster who suggested DTW's an Asian gateway over MSP simply because of its terminal: he's wrong. A LOT of labor goes into planning & developing new routes; DL's well aware that DTW's economy is struggling while MSP's more robust. However, DL's research must've concluded that DTW provides a better opportunity to make money than MSP. One day this may change, perhaps in the near future, but that's not the case status quo.

Quoting PanAm788 (Reply 21):
Secondly, from what I've heard on here before, take it or leave it, is that MSP-NRT performs extremely well. ... I have been on MSP-AMS numerous times and that flight is always almost completely full


While I agree that MSP-NRT performs well, I question that posters who declare "for sure" it was the former NW's most profitable route. That certainly wasn't the case with NW while I was there, although it's been awhile and things have changed. That said, there's very few people within an airline with access to a route's actual performance, so I'm always amused when people can declare "for sure" a route's profitability or lack of. Many of the seats sold across the Pacific by NW -- on ALL routes -- were bulk tickets, and MSP-NRT was no exception. Nearly all of its Pacific routes may have been better off with smaller equipment. Remember that full flights are often full of bulk tickets, non-revenue passengers, etc. so it's a poor indicator.

[Edited 2010-03-24 21:08:25]


Hypocrisy: "US airlines should only buy Boeing... BTW, check out my new Hyundai!"
25 SNCntry32 : Also living in Metro Detroit, I dont think the state government or the people of this great state would stand for that one bit... MSP is a domestic h
26 laca773 : I was wondering about this as well. The 788/789 would be an excellent a/c for this route. Does the 332 have the range to do this flight or would it g
27 Continental : Speaking of 777s at MSP, was there one today? I could have sworn I saw a 777 on approach at around 7:45am Wednesday. Checking flightaware, there was a
28 hjulicher : Metro Detroits economy is weaker than most of the nations, but that is the result of the financial crisis somewhat having its epicenter in Detroit. Ye
29 blueflyer : When is that taking effect? While looking for something else today, I saw the 777 was still scheduled on JFK-NRT and that, according to the DL schedu
30 compensateme : In order to time JFK to connect with DL's flights at NRT, a long layover is required. When NW operated JFK-NRT with a 744, it flew JFK-AMS with the i
31 isitsafenow : Don't bet on that. Lansing can't agree on ANYTHING. ooppss..... lets get back to airlines and airports. When the next economic crunch comes, airlines
32 premobrimo : You did see one! It was here for a military charter. It flew from MSP - SVN.
33 SNCntry32 : Ha... Very true... Not to hijack the thread or anything but a quick note they were able to retain Saab in Royal Oak. Jobs, lets get some jobs. OMG jo
34 burnsie28 : They can depart out of several different F gates which NW used to do all the time. Its one of the best performing Asia routes
35 Continental : Awesome. That would explain why I didn't see it on flightaware.
36 Post contains links FlyDreamliner : I think it would be interesting to know the exact calculus used by DL execs in choosing DTW as the Asia hub. It's great terminal, proximity to east co
37 KaiGywer : Depart, yes. Arrive, no
38 compensateme : I will reiterate: While a solid route, MSP-NRT was not NW's most profitable route during my tenure with the airline; it's possible it may have develo
39 Post contains links SNCntry32 : Look at the dates on those... http://detnews.com/article/20100206/...aks--will-keep-RenCen-headquarters Fiat wants better tax breaks from Michigan...
40 Post contains links dtw9 : Chrysler's going nowhere and G.M. has announced an additional 1000 jobs moving INTO the RenCen. Please get your facts straight before posting stories
41 af773atmsp : Actually NW chose DTW as the international hub. DL is keeping it going. With China becoming a very large economy I also see China Southern or DL star
42 compensateme : Again, if DL thought it could make more money flying to HKG and ICN from MSP than DTW, then it'd be doing so. NW never stated it was looking at MSP-P
43 af773atmsp : There was an article from right after Northwest exited bankruptcy about expansion of their fleet and new routes and MSP-PVG was one of them being con
44 isitsafenow : First of all, never say never. Now, take a wild guess how many automotive suppliers and their suppliers went either Chapter 11 or 7 in the last two y
45 SESGDL : I read the same article in the past. Repeating the same thing over and over again doesn't make what you're saying any more relevant or true. DTW-PVG'
46 compensateme : Heed your own advise: -- You initially claim DL’s maintaining DTW (vs. MSP) as its Asian gateway predominately to recoup the $1B spent on the McNam
47 SYfan100 : One of the things that I was thinking about with the 777 coming to MSP is there is a few small flows with it unless some changes are or were made righ
48 KaiGywer : Getting mechanics typerated on different aircraft is not difficult at all, and I bet DL has already thought of this...
49 MSPNWA : At this point in time, MSP is the larger domestic hub. So it's not false to say that until DTW officially retakes that title. In other words, who car
50 Post contains images NWAROOSTER : Northwest inherited DTW from Republic Airlines in the "merger of 1986." Northwest, eventually decided to use DTW as an Asian hub so it could use DTW a
51 worldtraveler : MSP is a very good hub and should be capable of supporting at least the NRT flight and probably more.... The problem w/ MSP TPAC is the same NW has ha
52 compensateme : First off, my comments were directed toward posters who suggested that as a larger domestic hub, MSP was better poised to handle transpacific traffic
53 SESGDL : And I have strong reservations that you have seen the contrary. You have provided no information or sources whatsoever for anything you have said, ju
54 SYfan100 : Thanks for the info! I use to work with a ex Northwest Mechanic at one point at a old job. He made it sound like it was hard with how he was talking
55 burnsie28 : Right, but not all of the international flights arrive at nearly the same time, no reason why they can't unload and tow over, like NW used to always
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