New service to Erbil. interesting new route, how is the expected demand? I understand there is a fairly large iraqi diaspora in Germany and scandinavia.
B777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1010 posts, RR: 3 Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6505 times:
OS also serves Erbil, and I belive SK also offers the odd service to that destination. Quite a few Gulf carriers are serving Erbil as well, and are in the process of opening up routes to Baghdad and Mosul.
Still, apart from Erbil it's a rather dangerous place to operate in which is reflected in the insurance costs. As a rough guideline, if you're flying into Baghdad the premium for one flight might equal what you're otherwise paying for a whole year on the same aeroplane.
From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
surfandsnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2588 posts, RR: 31 Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5730 times:
Well, Erbil is for all intents and purposes a world away from the civil strife and deadly violence that continue to plague Central and Southern Iraq. OS has been flying there for years now, so no surprise to see its parents begin its own flights to the city. Now, this article does say that LH does intend to begin flights into Baghdad by years end. That would be big news, as LH would be the first European airline (sorry, but I have to consider TK a Middle Eastern carrier) and first long-haul airline to resume flights to the city. If LH returned, we would probably see a cascade effect - I imagine its peers (BA, AF/KL, etc.) would quickly follow suit, as well as other prestigious airlines such as QR, EY, perhaps EK and maybe even airlines hailing from past political foes (SV, KU, IR).
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
TurkishWings From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1408 posts, RR: 9 Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5401 times:
Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 7): (sorry, but I have to consider TK a Middle Eastern carrier)
ElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1515 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5100 times:
Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 7): (sorry, but I have to consider TK a Middle Eastern carrier)
Quoting AirNZ (Reply 10): Where exactly are you defining/drawing the line at what is the Middle East though?
Quoting SHAQ (Reply 9): Turkey is not in Middle East?
Not this topic again. It's not some deep dark secret that Turkey lies firmly in the Middle East, and is in the Middle East.
Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 7): Well, Erbil is for all intents and purposes a world away from the civil strife and deadly violence that continue to plague Central and Southern Iraq.
Entirely, Kurdistan has seen quite a bit of foreign investment from Europe, there are business links to complement the large populations of Iraqis residing in Europe.
Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 7): If LH returned, we would probably see a cascade effect - I imagine its peers (BA, AF/KL, etc.) would quickly follow suit, as well as other prestigious airlines such as QR, EY, perhaps EK and maybe even airlines hailing from past political foes (SV, KU, IR).
The cascade would swamp the market, and the pricing power may not be there considering the high cost of operating, even with the demand for air travel.
A few brave carriers will operate, and make plenty of money, but the relative insecurity of Baghdad will make it incredibly difficult to operate out of, particularly if Northern Iraq continues to develop and see tremendous foreign investment.
kiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8435 posts, RR: 14 Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5099 times:
Quoting yazoo (Reply 11): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle-east (scroll down to Territories and Region). 97% of Turkey is culturally and geographically Middle-eastern
Yes , but IST , the main hub for TK , is located in the 3% of Turkey which is definitely European ( geographically speaking ) . Where does their current flight to Bagdad operate from , IST ( in Europe ) or SAW ( across the Bosphorus in Asia ) ?
Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21498 posts, RR: 24 Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4776 times:
Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 12): Not this topic again. It's not some deep dark secret that Turkey lies firmly in the Middle East, and is in the Middle East.
But, regardless of geography, the airline industry has always considered Turkey as part of Europe. It's always been part of the Europe-sub-area as far as IATA is concerned and all traffic statistics etc. for Turkey are included with Europe. not the Middle East.
mozart From Luxembourg, joined Aug 2003, 2015 posts, RR: 14 Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3883 times:
Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 7): (sorry, but I have to consider TK a Middle Eastern carrie
Why "sorry"? Turkey is a Middle Eastern country. No need to apologize for calling it that way. Or is there a stigma attached to being Middle Eastern? Do we have to apologize to Lebanon, Jordan, Israel, Kuwait etc. every time we say what is a geographic truth?
Turkey is a big country and parts of it are more European than others and more European than other Middle Eastern countries, and some 3% of the territory actually lie in Europe. But it's like saying that Switzerland lies in the topics only because there are palm trees in Lugano.
TK is a great airline and Turkey is a wonderful country, and it doesn't lose any of its attraction by calling it Middle Eastern.
Robbie86 From Sweden, joined May 2006, 509 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3512 times:
Quoting yazoo (Thread starter): I understand there is a fairly large iraqi diaspora in Germany and scandinavia.
There's a lot of Iraqis living in Scandinavia, the city of Södertälje got more inhabitants originating from Iraq than the UK and US put together. At least that's what I've heard. From ARN Iraq is pretty well served.
Viking Airlines flies to:
Baghdad
Erbil
Suleimanya
Iraqi Airways:
Al Najaf (Starting March 28)
Baghdad
Erbil
Next flights: ARN-LHR-IAD on BA 319/VS343 EWR-LHR-ARN on VS346/BA319
danfearn77 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 1780 posts, RR: 9 Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2724 times:
Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 12): Not this topic again. It's not some deep dark secret that Turkey lies firmly in the Middle East, and is in the Middle East.
Exactly! Every topic about TK or IST always turns up this arguement!! It doesnt really matter and this is about LH flying to Iraq, not Turkey being Middle Eastern!
Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
LHPII From Croatia, joined May 2009, 179 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2409 times:
.......LH also has Baghdad in a pipeline, actually it was planned for this summer as well. It was suppose to be operated with A321 via Amman, where crew would have a layover. Apperently LH has some large key accounts for both Erbil and Baghdad.
stylo777 From Turkey, joined Feb 2006, 2870 posts, RR: 12 Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2205 times:
Quoting LHPII (Reply 18): .......LH also has Baghdad in a pipeline, actually it was planned for this summer as well. It was suppose to be operated with A321 via Amman, where crew would have a layover. Apperently LH has some large key accounts for both Erbil and Baghdad.
I guess the FRA-EBL-FRA is operated by the same crew, right?
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