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Longest 762/763 Flight: AM057 NRT-MEX Nonstop!  
User currently offlineFyano773 From Mexico, joined Mar 2004, 784 posts, RR: 1
Posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 22156 times:


As of January AM is flying NRT-MEX nonstop eliminating the stopover in TIJ:



Bearing in mind that NRT-MEX distance is about 11,272 km, this eastbound flight is the longest commercial scheduled flight currently operated by a 767:

  Route            Distance
    nmi     mi     km
NRT-MEX  6,086    7,004    11,272  


The flight is operated with a 762 and switched over to a 763 once in a while:


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Photo © Ricardo Morales - flyAPM
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Photo © Sergio Mota - FlyAPM


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Photo © Josh May
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Photo © Jova - AeroImagenes De Mexico



For the 762, NRT-MEX is within range but the 763 falls short, nevertheless, the tail winds and the light configuration of AM’s 763 (36J/150Y) make this possible:

  Subtype          Maximum Range
  nmi       mi       km  
B767-200  6,385    7,579    12,195  
B767-300  5,990    6,880    11,070  
B767-400  5,625    6,473    10,415  


Any other routes?

Fyano

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3214 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 22101 times:

While not as long, I believe TLV-MIA on LY was the previous record-holder at 6603mi / 5738nm / 10627km

[Edited 2010-03-25 10:28:33]

User currently onlineLambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2079 posts, RR: 36
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 22044 times:

Quoting Fyano773 (Thread starter):


For the 762, NRT-MEX is within range but the 763 falls short, nevertheless, the tail winds and the light configuration of AM’s 763 (36J/150Y) make this possible:

Pardon my ignorance but I'm not so informed regarding technical matters. Is there any danger to stretching an aircraft so much (especially when Narita appears to be the closest landing spot)?


User currently offlinetimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6885 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 21880 times:

The nonstop is eastward-only-- right?

User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5476 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 21847 times:

I assume the w/b flight still stops in TIJ. Is it a fuel/op's stop only or do they still board TYO-bound pax/cargo there? (If so then it appears that the only way to fly back -- TYO-to-TIJ -- is NRT-MEX/connect/MEX-TIJ?

I guess this all means that there is essentially no market for TIJ-TYO-TIJ? Interesting.

(One thing is for sure: It certainly appears that the TIJ-stop is not "out of the way" at all, according to the Great-Circle route posted; stopping in TIJ doesn't involve hours of extra flight time!)

bb

[Edited 2010-03-25 10:58:41]

User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2565 posts, RR: 53
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 21821 times:

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 2):
Pardon my ignorance but I'm not so informed regarding technical matters. Is there any danger to stretching an aircraft so much (especially when Narita appears to be the closest landing spot)?

There's no 'danger', as the rules that control these flights prohibit flying right to the edge of available range. All these flights fall within the ETOPS rules, meaning they can only operate within 180 minutes of a suitable landing spot. Along the chosen route there will always have to be an airport that the plane can land at (with legal weather at the time) within 180 minutes flying time with one engine inoperative. And on that route from NRT to MEX, there are many available airports including ones in eastern Russia, Alaska, and Canada.

Because these flights are flown 'downwind', the actual air-miles flown are less than the maximum range. That said, these flights will most likely always have maximum fuel onboard, and be quite limited in the amount of payload (passengers, baggage & cargo) that it can carry. My guess (being a 763 pilot) is that it will be strictly a light load of passengers & their bags, with no cargo allowed.

Unless I read the post wrong, it's only eastbound that they can do it nonstop. Going westbound on that route into the wind would not be possible for any 767 to do with enough payload to pay for the flight.

HAL



One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3214 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 21786 times:

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 2):
Pardon my ignorance but I'm not so informed regarding technical matters. Is there any danger to stretching an aircraft so much (especially when Narita appears to be the closest landing spot)?

There are several diverts along the way, easily within ETOPS-180 limits.


Quoting timz (Reply 3):
The nonstop is eastward-only-- right?

Correct. Westbound still has TIJ stop.


User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 21788 times:

No doubt MAD-SCL and TLV-MIA were longer still air.

User currently offlineJakeOrion From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 21692 times:

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 6):
Correct. Westbound still has TIJ stop.

AM has 2 orders for the 787-8, which can easily bypass this. Will the 787 replace the 767 on this route or will they continue to use 767s? Then, if they do replace them, will they bypass TIJ for the MEX-NRT?



Every problem has a simple solution; finding the simple solution is the difficult problem.
User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 21535 times:

Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 8):
AM has 2 orders for the 787-8, which can easily bypass this.

I would say that is far from a certainty.


User currently offlinenetjetsintl From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 21305 times:

what about Aeroflot's 767-300 Moscow-LAX??? that's about 12 hrs

User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17084 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 21190 times:

Quoting netjetsintl (Reply 10):
what about Aeroflot's 767-300 Moscow-LAX??? that's about 12 hrs

They operate that route with the A330 now.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineJakeOrion From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 21099 times:

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 9):
I would say that is far from a certainty.

Good point, but let's just say the 787 does what is supposed to do.  



Every problem has a simple solution; finding the simple solution is the difficult problem.
User currently offlinethenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2588 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 20889 times:

Quoting netjetsintl (Reply 10):
what about Aeroflot's 767-300 Moscow-LAX??? that's about 12 hrs

SVO-LAX is 5,281nm / 9,781km. Since TLV-MIA is longer distance wise and both flights are westbound and subject to pretty much the same headwind, LY wins !

AC's old YYZ-NRT route on B763 back in 2004 i believe, can give TLV-MIA a good run for its money. That route used to be 5,574nm / 10,323km, a couple of hundred kilometers short of LYs route.

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 20430 times:

Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 12):
Quoting RJ111 (Reply 9):
I would say that is far from a certainty.

Good point, but let's just say the 787 does what is supposed to do.

I was making that assumption. MEX is 2,230m amsl, i very much doubt the 788 will be able to fly the route.


User currently offlineworldtraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 19259 times:

What is the scheduled length of the flight and is making it on a consistent basis?

Any idea how the crew is rotating since they make a stop in one direction but not the other?


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25696 posts, RR: 22
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 19174 times:

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 13):
AC's old YYZ-NRT route on B763 back in 2004 i believe, can give TLV-MIA a good run for its money. That route used to be 5,574nm / 10,323km, a couple of hundred kilometers short of LYs route

I expect that one had significant payload restrictions, especially westbound, to avoid a fuel stop.


User currently offline7673mech From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 732 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 19146 times:
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Quoting RJ111 (Reply 14):

I was making that assumption. MEX is 2,230m amsl, i very much doubt the 788 will be able to fly the route

Based on ....? What? Aircraft is still in certification.


User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 18785 times:

Quoting 7673mech (Reply 17):
Quoting RJ111 (Reply 14):

I was making that assumption. MEX is 2,230m amsl, i very much doubt the 788 will be able to fly the route

Based on ....? What? Aircraft is still in certification.

I mentioned what it's based on in the post.


User currently offlineolli From Mexico, joined Mar 2001, 341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 17597 times:

Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 8):
AM has 2 orders for the 787-8,

There are 5 orders: 2 directly to Boeing and 3 thru ILFC.

Best Regards,

[Edited 2010-03-25 16:35:52]

[Edited 2010-03-25 16:36:52]

User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8437 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 17503 times:
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Wil AeroMex make the Shanghai to Mexico City nonstop too. Would love to see a 777 do that. Hey AM could do HKG as its next Asian city.

User currently offlineLatinPlane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2737 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 17015 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 20):
Wil AeroMex make the Shanghai to Mexico City nonstop too. Would love to see a 777 do that. Hey AM could do HKG as its next Asian city.

No, for this one they are making at TIJ on both ways. The flight is supposed to re-start tomorrow if I'm correct?

[Edited 2010-03-25 17:20:12]

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 22, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 16530 times:

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 9):
Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 8):
AM has 2 orders for the 787-8, which can easily bypass this.

I would say that is far from a certainty



The first few 788's might have some restrictions (I doubt that too) however the latter tranche of B788's shouldn't have any problems. Seeing that AM's are to receive their B788's sooner rather than later, its going to be interesting to see how this pans out.



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlinesovietjet From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2003, 2617 posts, RR: 17
Reply 23, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 16035 times:
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Why does the 767 have such a ridiculous long range? I almost feel sorry for the people forced to fly 12 hours in a 762...

User currently onlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8500 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 15927 times:

Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 12):
Good point, but let's just say the 787 does what is supposed to do.

MEX is as hot and high as it gets (for a large airport), at least in the Summer months. It's very doubtful that the 788 will be able to make it MEX-NRT non-stop with full pax and payload. The 789 most likely would.


25 Viscount724 : Why? In Y class you can't beat the 767s 2-3-2 seating, with just a 1 in 7 chance of a middle seat. And many airllines now have preimium class product
26 pylon101 : I agree. Unlike many other aircraft Boeing 767 has the best possible layout in Y class: 2-3-2. My concern is that coming new machines don't offer this
27 BeakerLTN : I guess none of you guys have tried Thomson's 2-4-2 layout on the 767?!?! Their 'premium' product offers 2-3-2!
28 RJ111 : You'll be looking at about 25t (possibly more with tire speed restrictions) off the MTOW which will directly comes out of the max fuel load of ~90t a
29 Post contains images JakeOrion : Thanks. I just went off what was on wikipedia for orders via Boeing. I flew 10 hours on a CO 762 from FCO-EWR in a 2-3-2 arrangement and it was quite
30 KC135TopBoom : The B-787 is suppose to have very good high and hot airport performance, with either RR or GE engines. Boeing has not gotten to that stage, yet, in t
31 AR385 : Err...you probably meant La Paz, Bolivia, at close to 4,000 mts above sea level. Lima/Callao is a major port right next to the Pacific.
32 RJ111 : You mean LIM, lying a whopping 34m AMSL? From what i've seen it should have a very good takeoff performance. However MEX-NRT would be borderline even
33 starac17 : Why, a lot of airlines have updated the cabins if they plan on keeping them around, such as AC who have updated all but 3 of their 763's Or possibly
34 seabosdca : What time does this flight leave MEX? In a place like MEX that cools down overnight, hot and high problems can be considerably alleviated by leaving
35 Fyano773 : Yes, a handful of pax boards in TIJ bound to NRT, but according to official stats, less than 2% of the cargo operated in this flight is originated fr
36 BMI727 : Technically, I don't think that you can measure ground speed in Mach. On flights with a tailwind, their cruising Mach number will be the same as any
37 Fyano773 : OK, I am not an expert on this but might I say that the indicated speed is the same but the ground speed is higher? Regards, Fyano
38 BMI727 : That would be right. The physical flight of a plane is governed by the airspeed and not groundspeed. Theoretically, a plane could fly backwards with
39 The777Man : Not yet; SU starts SVO-LAX in mid-May10. The777Man
40 RJ111 : Careful with the word "indicated". Indicated Airspeed is a different thing to True Airspeed (which is what you're talking about here) and Ground Spee
41 Post contains links EddieDude : http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/archives/199429.asp This blog entry discusses how AM delayed delivery of certain Boeings, but most likely it is 73
42 HAL : Indicated Airspeed = what your airspeed guage is showing. These guages work by measuring the force of the air as you fly into it. Ever stick you hand
43 Fyano773 : BTW, as per GDS and Airlineroute.com, AM is adding an extra service to NRT: Effective Jun 28th. NRT-MEX leg continues nonstop. Regards, Fyano
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