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Cuba Landing Rights For USA Carriers  
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3445 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7198 times:

I was just curious about how a USA carrier obtains landing rights in Cuba? I know they are special visitation rights flights.


"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1184 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7140 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Thread starter):
I was just curious about how a USA carrier obtains landing rights in Cuba? I know they are special visitation rights flights

I believe these flights can only be sold as Charters. No scheduled service.


User currently offlineAeroWeanie From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1609 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6900 times:
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I read somewhere that American Airlines serves Havana from Miami several times a week on charters.

The last time I was in the Bahamas, I noticed that Continental Express had flights from Nassau to Havana.


User currently offlineadxmatt From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 951 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6580 times:

Quoting AeroWeanie (Reply 2):
The last time I was in the Bahamas, I noticed that Continental Express had flights from Nassau to Havana.

I'm not sure about NAS-HAV but CO Express, serve MIA-HAV several times a day. Go to the MIA airport website and look at the dept./arrival screens. AA or Eagle service HAV and other Cuban cities as well.

CO mainline briefly did LAX-HAV 1x weekly.

All these flights are Charters and there is a lot of paperwork to be done to make sure you can legally travel to Cuba.

I think this travel embargo should be lifted but that is just my opinion.


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32777 posts, RR: 72
Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6505 times:

Quoting adxmatt (Reply 3):
and there is a lot of paperwork to be done to make sure you can legally travel to Cuba.

It's really not a lot at all. It's quite simple and easy assuming you meet the initial criteria, the primary of which is having direct relatives in Cuba. The paperwork can literally be done in an hour.



a.
User currently offlineTymnBalewne From Bermuda, joined Mar 2005, 949 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6444 times:

I think the OP is asking more about how an airline gets rights to Cuba, not the travelers.


Dewmanair...begins with Dew
User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1391 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6280 times:

Quoting TymnBalewne (Reply 5):
I think the OP is asking more about how an airline gets rights to Cuba, not the travelers.

I'm sure the answer is a bit complicated as there are some american carriers with existing route authorities which pre-date the revolution and are llikely to be respected. In regards to the question of acquiring rights,that will form part of any new agreement the respective governments of Cuba and the USA conclude. Don't expect the Cuban goverment to put CU at a disadvantage by allowing american based carriers to flood the market.

[Edited 2010-03-26 20:58:41]

User currently onlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1721 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6095 times:

It is a very complicated operation.

After getting authorisation by the FAA they need the aproval of the department of treasure, who is the real guard of the embargo, you need to solve many problems before even ask about it, for example payment of taxes is quite complicated because cuban govertment doesn´t have many international possibilities. so for example the payment is done via the Cuban embassy in Mexico d.f. and using some kind of legal trick to avoid some US laws.

The cuban right is not difficult because they want people to come.

As stated above, they are like charters altough they are regular flights. AA using eagle serves many cuban cities and AA mainline used to have B738 on saturdays and sundays to NYC, don´t know now.

Continental express uses B1900, some airline with B732 ex Delta planes also serves MIA, and some more small airlines.


Quoting adxmatt (Reply 3):
I think this travel embargo should be lifted but that is just my opinion.

I think so, but no politician in the USA can do, because that mean losing lot and lot of votes in Florida mainly.......and you know florida is very important, and the Cuban-American society is always pushing for more embargo and not for less......

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 6):
Don't expect the Cuban goverment to put CU at a disadvantage by allowing american based carriers to flood the market.

Cuban goverment don´t even has plans to allow any Cuban Airline to fly into the states, because they could do.

I worked two years for a Cuban airline and we used to fly to CUN, NAS, PAP and SDQ and this flights are mainly for Cuban-Americans, CUN and NAS for the west part of the island and PAP, SDQ for the east.


User currently offlinePeteinmiami From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5806 times:

Quoting migair54 (Reply 7):
I think so, but no politician in the USA can do, because that mean losing lot and lot of votes in Florida mainly.......and you know florida is very important, and the Cuban-American society is always pushing for more embargo and not for less...

It is not the entire Cuban-American society, if you ask around, most of the Cuban-Americans do not favor the embargo, but there is a very powerful group of Cuban-American with very strong political ties that wants to maintain it, same group that had made the Cuban problem a way of life and are making a lot of money out of it . Just look at how many flights we have a day from Miami to Havana alone full of Cubans that just wants to visit their country and reunite with their family . And yes I am a Cuban-American, and no, I am against the embargo, I think is stupid, obsolete and only benefit that little group that is making a big business out of the Cuban issue


User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3347 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5689 times:

Quoting migair54 (Reply 7):
Continental express uses B1900, some airline with B732 ex Delta planes also serves MIA, and some more small airlines.

While the flights do show up on the airport FIDS screens as Continental Connection flights, I believe that they are operated independently by Gulfstream International Airlines. Sky King is the airline flying 737-200s on these flights, and they will very frequently fly on behalf of Gulfstream as well (which is why some 3M/GFT-coded flights will appear as 737s). AeroSur also operates Cuba charters using a 727-200 based at MIA, and TACA does the same using an A320. Vision Airlines (who are perhaps best known for their fleet of unmarked 767-200s with nearly invisible registration numbers, used for operating "extraordinary rendition" flights to the Middle East on behalf of the CIA) also uses a mix of 737-300s, -400s, and -800s for its charter work to Cuba. American's equipment on these flights ranges from the ATR 72 to the 767-300.

I recall that Continental, when they used to do these flights with their own metal, used 737NGs. United used a 777 on weekends, for a one-hour flight! Allegiant also used to operate these flights over the past summer, with an MD-80 based at MIA.

[Edited 2010-03-27 08:23:52]

User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32777 posts, RR: 72
Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5615 times:

Quoting migair54 (Reply 7):
AA using eagle serves many cuban cities and AA mainline used to have B738 on saturdays and sundays to NYC, don´t know now.

AA mainline uses everything from 738s to 763s on MIA-HAV and MIA-HOG.



a.
User currently offlines4popo From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4584 times:

I counted ~10 daily flights between MIA and Cuba, and this is with all of the restrictions in place.

Does anyone have a good estimate for the potential number of flights if the embargo is lifted?


User currently onlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1721 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3203 times:

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 9):
used for operating "extraordinary rendition" flights to the Middle East on behalf of the CIA) also uses a mix of 737-300s, -400s, and -800s for its charter work to Cuba. American's equipment on these flights ranges from the ATR 72 to the 767-300.

Amazing to see a plane used for CIA operations flying to HAV, we should inform Fidel about that...........jejejeeejej

Quoting s4popo (Reply 11):
Does anyone have a good estimate for the potential number of flights if the embargo is lifted?

lot of them, imagine CUN tourist plus all the cuban americans visiting relatives and friends...........so it´s a huge potential......

all the west and central America could be linked to Cuba all year round without any problem at all...... just have a look at Dominican Republic and CUN area..........so Cuba will be similiar if not bigger market......


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3093 times:

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 6):
I'm sure the answer is a bit complicated as there are some american carriers with existing route authorities which pre-date the revolution and are llikely to be respected. In regards to the question of acquiring rights,that will form part of any new agreement the respective governments of Cuba and the USA conclude. Don't expect the Cuban goverment to put CU at a disadvantage by allowing american based carriers to flood the market.

Bingo. This was my biggest thing in the other threads that were floating around about the possibility of scheduled flights opening up between the U.S. and Cuba. TRUST that Cubana will get their share!



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25300 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2830 times:

Quoting migair54 (Reply 12):
Quoting s4popo (Reply 11):
Does anyone have a good estimate for the potential number of flights if the embargo is lifted?

lot of them, imagine CUN tourist plus all the cuban americans visiting relatives and friends...........so it´s a huge potential......

Even in the late 1950s prior to the embargo, U.S. carriers (Pan Am, Delta, National) had about 15 daily flights to Cuba, mostly from MIA and a few from TPA, plus a daily National Airlines nonstop from JFK (then IDL) and a daily DL nonstop from MSY. Cubana also had half a dozen daily flights from MIA and a daily nonstop from JFK. Pan Am alone had around 8 daily flights MIA-HAV.

To see how big the potential is, look at Canada. Even without a VFR market like the huge Cuban-American community in the U.S., Cuba is now the 4th largest foreign travel destination for Canadians, after the U.S., Mexico and U.K. Almost 1 million Canadians visited Cuba in 2008, just slightly behind the UK, and ahead of France for the first time. AC alone serves 5 airports in Cuba during the peak winter season, and WestJet, Air Transat and other leisure carriers, also have a lot of Canada-Cuba capacity.

With U.S. population almost 10 times Canada, and having increased by about 65% since the embargo was imposed, the potential is huge.


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