Jackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 676 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 19085 times:
With the 707 being the "flagship" of the TWA fleet with the full service offerings, eg meals, while the 727 operated shorter flights where the same level of service could not be expected, where did the Convair 880 fit in?
The 880 operated some fairly long flights, eg LAX/SFO/LAS-ORD, and since they would be competing with airlines such as UA/AA/CO on these routes, I would think the Convair 880 would be a "full service" aircraft.
cv990Coronado From South Africa, joined Nov 2007, 365 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 18824 times:
I have a staff timetable from July 1972 and the CV880 certainly had full meal and drink service on routes from CHI to the Eastcoast. Also from STL to both East and West coast destinations. I remember flying from LAX to SFO on an 880 it was an amazing aircraft very smooth, comfortable and you could feel the power - not as much as Concorde but impressive.
SSC-707B727 737-741234SP757/762/3/772/WA300/10/319/2/1-342/3/6-880-DAM-VC10 TRD 111 Ju52-DC8/9/10/11-YS11-748-VCV DH4B L
isitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 18791 times:
The 880 was in service before the 727. Not many US carriers used the 880/990 jets.
For distance it was a short to mid-range jet like ORD-MKC(kansas city municipal)OKC-STL, IND-IDL, MKC-PHX
ORD-DEN, PIT-IDL, CMH-IDL to name a few routes. The seating was 2-3 in Y class and total seats was around 90-100 or so.Thats not exact but close.
It was the first commercial jet powered by G.E.
The 880 is a fav with me because that was my first jet.
June 18 1961
TWA flight 115
Reg number N830TW
Flight route was BOS-ORD-MCI-LAX-SFO.
Window seat left side behind the wing....the row number 18 stands out but I'm not sure.
Ya don't forget stuff like that!
The slow death(over a few years)came when the 727-200 showed up. The phasing out of the Convair jets was hastened with the
entrance of the smaller jets, DC9-30's and 737's.
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
longhauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5873 posts, RR: 43
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 18750 times:
I flew on a DL CV880 YUL-BOS, equipment sub for a B727-200, in July 1973.
One thing I recall standing out was the incredible acceleration on take-off ... unmatched until a no-flex takeoff on a light B767-300! With respect to the CV880, it had more to do with the GE turbojets than the thrust/weight ratio.
The GE turbojets had a very very fast acceleration rate from idle to max power. This was of course due to previous uses of the engine in a military function.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
CF-CPI From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 1355 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 18521 times:
TWA ran the 880 on some fairly long routes. If I'm not mistaken, LAX-CVG and LAX-PIT were done. The latter is almost a transcon. I'm told that in the case of strong headwinds, an interim fuel stop on these routes was not uncommon.
In November of 1967, a nonstop LAX-CVG flight crashed on finals, landing short of the runway during a visual approach in bad weather. It destroyed ship N821TW, which flew TWA's inaugural Convair 880 service in 1961. There were only a few survivors of the impact, which occurred in an apple orchard.
TWA 880s ran head-to-head with AA's 990s on the ORD-SFO route (imagine having that choice!).
It was a beautiful aircraft, with a very sporty look and comfortable cabin.
flyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 2301 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 18372 times:
Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 4): In November of 1967, a nonstop LAX-CVG flight crashed on finals, landing short of the runway during a visual approach in bad weather. It destroyed ship N821TW, which flew TWA's inaugural Convair 880 service in 1961. There were only a few survivors of the impact, which occurred in an apple orchard.
I remember hearing about this. my god-father's grandparents were killed in that crash.
milesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2077 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 18311 times:
I flew quite a few trips on TWA and Delta's 880's. The cabin service was the same as on the 707 or DC-8, but there was no movie projection or audio system. The 880, with five abreast seating, was very comfortable in coach, and really preferable, from a comfort standpoint to the Boeing or Douglas. TW, I believe, only had one hull loss, that resulted in any fatalities, the one at CVG listed above. Delta lost one on a training flight, and one in December of 1972 when it was struck by a North Central DC-9 at ORD which was taking off. The Delta flight was directed by ATC to cross the active runway. The tail was "sawed off" but there were no casualties on the Delta flight, but most of the passengers on the NC DC-9-30 did not survive. TW operated 880's through out their system and on just about all East West domestic routes except the transcons. They did operate ORD-LAX/SFO and DEN-JFK. I flew on my last 880 flight from ORD to TPA in late 1973 on Delta, and my first 880 flight was on NE, IDL-MIA in 1962. Northeast made a big deal of the five across seating, in their Jim Dooley, "come on down" TV ads, filmed poolside in Florida. Their slogan was, Fly Northeast, the airline that never squeezes (or it may have been crowds" you in six across.
mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 11758 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 18238 times:
Quoting milesrich (Reply 10): The tail was "sawed off" but there were no casualties on the Delta flight,
Actually, the tail was NOT "sawed off".....there was only a small chunk out of the tail, but there were tire tracks across the top of the fuselage where the NC DC-9 struck. The a/c sat for quite awhile at our hangar (DL's) at ORD with all DL logos and names removed.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
Type-Rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 18029 times:
In fact Convair was going to try to market a smaller version of the 880 as a bizjet. I saw a film from Convair that was for marketing. It would have been a much shorter fuselage with 4 engines. Now THAT would have been neat!
Macsog6 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 574 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 17971 times:
Quoting Type-Rated (Reply 12): In fact Convair was going to try to market a smaller version of the 880 as a bizjet. I saw a film from Convair that was for marketing. It would have been a much shorter fuselage with 4 engines. Now THAT would have been neat!
Ever see a McDonnell Douglas 119. It looks exactly like a scaled down Convair 880.
dc863 From Romania, joined Jun 1999, 1579 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 17553 times:
I always thought the tail soot on the DC-9s, and 727s was the result from reverse thrust. Can anyone provide a pic of the "dirty tail" 880?
I know the 737-100/200s had a small area just aft of the wing on the fuselage that would have the soot stain after many landings but I don't recall the 880s ever having a dirty tail from their sooty engines.
CMHfreqflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 17232 times:
Thanks for starting this thread. My very first plane trip was on a TWA 880 from CMH-LGA in 1967. To a six year old kid it was an amazing experience, although I have no clear recollection of the interior of the plane. At the time, and at least into the mid- 1970's CMH had an observation deck on top of the gates, so you could see, hear, feel and smell the jets as they would taxi up to the gates. I also remember very smoky, noisy and very very cool take-offs from both the 880's and the 707's that TWA routinely flew into CMH at the time.
One question - I do remember a first-class lounge on flights from CMH to either LGA or JFK, but would it have been an 880 or a 707? I would have flown both on TWA several times in the late '60's and early '70's.
airtechy From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 676 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 15838 times:
Wasn't the 880 the plane where moisture collected in the overhead ac duct while the plane was parked and then dumped out the gaspers onto the back row of seats when the plane rotated for takeoff? I seem to remember getting doused on one of my DL flights.
Jackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 676 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 15786 times:
Quoting CMHfreqflyer (Reply 20): One question - I do remember a first-class lounge on flights from CMH to either LGA or JFK, but would it have been an 880 or a 707? I would have flown both on TWA several times in the late '60's and early '70's.
Originally, the 880 had a large lounge. This was removed fairly early into the 1960's becase it took up so much room, and was replaced with standard F class seating.
The 707 always had a small lounge located next to the First Class galley
zippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5740 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 15727 times:
Sadly, I never had the opportunity to fly on an 880 or for that matter any other Convair bird. At least I got to tour Elvis's plane the Lisa Marie at Graceland. Believe it or not the windows were covered with plastic panels I guess to keep out the sunlight and heat of the Memphis climate. However, I managed to slide a panel several inches open to get a feel for the Convair experience. Only an aviation nut would do this. Of course, I'm into Elvis. ツ
And as others have said, the advent of the 727 and DC-9 were the final nails in the coffin for the Convair jets. Also, only a handful of airlines flew them. Anyone know if Eastern and National and even Pan Am consider adding them to their fleets? Pan Am and Eastern back in the day had their hands on almost any of the major players in the industry.