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Embraer E-195X Decision Likely Early 2011  
User currently offlinekeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 23049 times:

This year or early next year Embraer will take a decision on whether to stretch the E-Jet family or come up with an entirely new design. If Embraer decides to build substantial bigger aircraft, Embraer will face the CSeries, Superjet and ARJ. And Airbus, Boeing, Comac, UAC..

During the last decade Embraer has taken over the 100 seat segment from Fokker and BAE. The E-190 proved far the most popular from the 170, 175, 190, 195 family.



At the same time high fuel prices / environmental regulations push new engine technology. Pratt's GTF's, GE LEAPX and NG34 will be introduced in the next 5 years (such as direct competitor MRJ). The CF34 turbofan installed on Embraers aircraft seem to have reached the end of their product life cycle.

Embraer mentioned recently they are considering a stretch of the E195, dubbed the E-195X. I think it is likely to be equipped with new NG34 or GTF engines, probably will have a bigger wing to create room for a bigger engine, landing gear and more fuel.

It would compete directly with the CS100 I guess. It seems Embraer already proposed the study to airlines (AA). The E170 and E175 are IMO unlikely to be included in such an upgrade.

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinekeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 22808 times:

.. & after some cut, paste & Calculator ;



 

it would narrow the CSeries niche, which is a bigger heavier machine alltogether..

[Edited 2010-03-30 06:24:45]

User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3387 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 22662 times:

Yes, but what about range?


"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5449 posts, RR: 29
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 22351 times:

I thought from the thread title that this was a news item.

Here are a few previous threads that discussed this as well, in case anyone is interested:

FI: Embraer Stretched E195X (by OyKIE Jan 26 2010 in Civil Aviation)?threadid=4690271&searchid=4697951&s=195x#ID4697951

What Would You Want In A E195X? (by bjorn14 Feb 28 2010 in Civil Aviation)?threadid=4728711&searchid=4728890&s=195x#ID4728890

Embraer Studying 200 Series Aircraft (by Dougbr2006 Oct 6 2006 in Civil Aviation)?threadid=3027078&searchid=3027262&s=195x#ID3027262

Maximum Stretch For The E170/175/190/195-Family? (by Vfw614 Jul 10 2006 in Civil Aviation)?threadid=2870122&searchid=2870354&s=195x#ID2870354

-Dave

[Edited 2010-03-30 08:56:01]


Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2369 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 21987 times:

Do you have a side view?
If the GTF [supposedly] does not fit under a 737, how would that fit under an 195X . . .?



Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
User currently offlinekeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 21679 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 2):
Yes, but what about range?

3000nm passengers only seems to be the industry bench mark. Lower capasity aircraft very seldom fly longer then 1500 nm flights though.

Quoting PW100 (Reply 4):
Do you have a side view?
If the GTF [supposedly] does not fit under a 737, how would that fit under an 195X . . .?

The ground clearance issue on the E jets is not as critical as with the 737. A new wing as proposed, new landing gear & engine mounting would include space for a big fan from the start. Maybe a seagul like wing root like the A380.


User currently offlinekeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 21069 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 3):
I thought from the thread title that this was a news item.


Maybe the thread is/was a little bit ahead of the main news streams.

Embraer has already let it be known that it is considering a larger aircraft, potentially 150 seats, based on its already successful E195 platform. But it could also develop a new jet aircraft or even a large turboprop, although the company’s interest in turboprops has “lessened” in favour of the 110-120 seat jet market.

The direction the company takes with the new programme will shape Embraer’s future. If it does decide to move beyond its current 70-120 seat regional jet range into larger aircraft, this will bring it into direct competition with Airbus and Boeing for the first time, as well as offering an alternative to Bombardier’s new CSeries.

http://www.centreforaviation.com/new...f-2010--suppliers-share-wrap/page1


User currently offlinefrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1565 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 20915 times:

Quoting keesje (Reply 5):
The ground clearance issue on the E jets is not as critical as with the 737. A new wing as proposed, new landing gear & engine mounting would include space for a big fan from the start. Maybe a seagul like wing root like the A380.

That sounds like much more than a modified E195, they might as well design a new fuselage around it with 5 abreast seating (or even 6...) if they're already redesigning it that far. A new wing and landing gear is quite a lot more complicated (and costly) than a fuselage stretch combined with CF34NG engines. It's more likely Embraer will do just that, IMHO.



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
User currently offlinepanais From Cyprus, joined May 2008, 462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 20820 times:

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 7):
a fuselage stretch combined with CF34NG engines. It's more likely Embraer will do just that

And there is good reason why Embraer will do just that.
Looking at the empty weight difference between the E-190 and the E-195 is 890kg for an increase of 3 rows in length.

If you are looking at a 4 row increase for the E-195X to go to 124 seats (1 class seating at 32in pitch which is 1 row less than the A319, CS300, B737-700) or 132 seats (1 class seating at 31in pitch which is equal to the A319, CS300, B737-700) , the empty weight will increase by say 1,200kg going to about 30,200kg, which is 5-7,000kg less than the CS300 and 8-10,000kg less than the 737-700 and the A319.

Together with the CF34NG engines and a list price that is a lot less than the A319 and the 737-700, it will be a compelling argument for any fleet renewal exercise.


User currently offlinepaulcaz From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 20574 times:

This Could Be a good aircraft for Ryanair !


Paul Newman Ascot UK
User currently offlineEagleboy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1795 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 20508 times:
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Not unless they get them at knockdown prices!!!

User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 20488 times:
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Quoting paulcaz (Reply 9):
This Could Be a good aircraft for Ryanair !

How good are smaller jets for low-cost carriers? Can these carriers make money with aircraft with 90-125 seats?

One gets the impression that only carriers with B737-800 and A320 aircraft with 180-189 seats make money, and their argument is that these large aircraft bring down the unit cost considerably even if the aircraft only carry 90 pax on many routes...



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30584 posts, RR: 84
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 20480 times:
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Quoting PW100 (Reply 4):
If the GTF [supposedly] does not fit under a 737, how would that fit under an 195X . . .?

Embraer could probably get away with a slightly more powerful variant of the PW1200G being developed for the MRJ, which has a fan diameter (56") almost identical to the CF34-10E currently hanging off the E-195. I do not think they would need the PW1500G and it's 74" fan being developed for the CSeries.


User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 20346 times:

Quoting keesje (Thread starter):
The E170 and E175 are IMO unlikely to be included in such an upgrade.

Why not? Embraer has sold a lot of E-170/E-175 aircraft. Imagine what the economics would look like hanging new engines off the E-175. I think Embraer should and will update the whole family.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
a fan diameter (56") almost identical to the CF34-10E currently hanging off the E-195.

Stitch would you happen to know what the fan diameter (not engine diameter) is for the CF34-8C like on the E-170/175??



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30584 posts, RR: 84
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 20337 times:
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Quoting EA772LR (Reply 13):
Stitch would you happen to know what the fan diameter (not engine diameter) is for the CF34-8C like on the E-170/175??

Looks to be 52 inches.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12899 posts, RR: 100
Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 20134 times:
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Quoting keesje (Thread starter):
During the last decade Embraer has taken over the 100 seat segment from Fokker and BAE.

That has been impressive. Now that Embraer has a good number out there, there will be 'momentum for an evolution' and not a new design.

Quoting keesje (Thread starter):
The CF34 turbofan installed on Embraers aircraft seem to have reached the end of their product life cycle.

I thought this when the E-jets were launched. I like the E-jets, but not their engines from a fuel burn perspective.

Quoting PW100 (Reply 4):
Do you have a side view?
If the GTF [supposedly] does not fit under a 737, how would that fit under an 195X . . .?

Pratt could size the fan at almost any diameter. For the E-jets, Pratt would happily create a custom engine. Probably with a PW1000G core, but a custom fan/nacelle at a minimum.

Taking an existing core and putting on a smaller fan is far easier with a GTF than a conventional twin spool as the 'low spool' can be kept at about the previous RPM with a gearing change.

However, I would be shocked if the E-jets select anything other than the NG34 for the next engine.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4781 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 20056 times:

No clear indication so far.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...er-studies-re-engining-e-jets.html



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineACKattack From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 64 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 19964 times:

What if Embraer designed a new, bigger wing for the E -195X that could fit the nex gen engines, but then used that in a few years for a larger 5 or 6 abreast airliner of 140+ pax plus?
This would give some increased fleet commonality and reduced cost for Embraer. It would also bring them up into the lower realms of the Boeing and Airbus lines, especially the 73G and A319 areas. While this might seem like a threatening move to Boeing and Airbus, it could also get them off the hook for a smaller nex gen narrowbody and allow them to instead concentrate on larger, range-ier narrowbodies.


User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3387 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 19785 times:

Quoting ACKattack (Reply 17):
It would also bring them up into the lower realms of the Boeing and Airbus lines

They have consistently said they are not interested in competing directly with Boeing or Airbus. I read yesterday that they will now make a decision about the 195X by the end of the year. I guess the C-series (which is taking a bigger shot at Boeing and Airbus) and all the re-engining of other types have forced their hand. For me I'd like to see a mini-787.  



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlinekeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 19535 times:

Interview with the Embraer guy to watch in this respect, Mauro Kern.

http://www.ainonline.com/news/single...ch-new-aircraft-by-year-end-24420/


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