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CVG Questions  
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1850 posts, RR: 10
Posted (4 years 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3243 times:

I'm well aware that wikipedia isn't the most reliable source, but it looks like on the CVG wiki, some one recently made some updates with the following statements:

"Today, many businesses in Cincinnati want Delta to re-establish the service it once had in the late '90's/early 2000s, and some have already relocated to other cities with more prominent airports."

and

"The only remaining intercontinental service by Delta is a daily departure to Paris in the evening, but many business analysts speculate that this flight's days are also numbered in the future."

now my questions are, if there's any truth whatsoever to these statements, what businesses have since relocated because of the CVG hub cuts? I'm aware that the local chambers of commerce have been lobbying for increased service but have heard nothing any businesses relocating outside the tri-state area. Also, since when has the CDG flight been performing badly? Of the few positive things DL management has said of CVG recently is that the CDG is performing strongly.

I would appreciate any incite you all could provide.

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineavconsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3170 times:

In 2005 or 2006 P&G relocated a lot of their sales teams out of CVG. I was told to DFW, but since have learned also to BOS.

Though NCR was in DAY, they have recently relocated to ATL. I cannot recall the names but over the last 2 years there were two or three size-able companies (non-Fortune 500) who relocated to Chicago. I remember reading on Cincinnati.com.


User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1449 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3119 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Thread starter):
Also, since when has the CDG flight been performing badly? Of the few positive things DL management has said of CVG recently is that the CDG is performing strongly.

I don't have any insider info, but I'd say you're right that the CDG flight performing well (or at least well enough) has been what I've seen in the Cincinnati news for the most part whenever it comes up. If anything I'd say that the reduction to just the daily CDG flight would mean that it's doing as well as ever, because those other O&D transatlantic pax are not spread across CDG, AMS, FRA, LGW, and instead are all going CVG-CDG-xxx, unless of course connecting to other service in ATL, JFK, etc. on the way to Europe. Granted the connecting base is more or less gone, but one daily flight is probably reasonable for the market.

Quoting flyguy89 (Thread starter):
"Today, many businesses in Cincinnati want Delta to re-establish the service it once had in the late '90's/early 2000s, and some have already relocated to other cities with more prominent airports."

Two points on this. First, I am not personally aware of any major businesses packing up and leaving town just because of CVG cutbacks. Not to say it hasn't happened, but I'd think that I would have noticed at least something in Cincinnati press about it. Second, the big boys in the Cincinnati market (Toyota USA down in Georgetown, KY; Kroger; P&G; GE; Federated/Macy's; and I'm probably missing a couple) aren't going anywhere.


User currently offlineavconsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2977 times:

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 2):
Federated/Macy's

Federated has been relocating a bulk of its operations to ATL for the last 3 years. For obvious reasons, their buyers have been moved to Manhattan. I could never believe the buyers were in Cincy as long as they were.

A Cincinnati.com article cited an undisclosed source in Federated they were going the direction of Chicquita in only leaving the executive offices in Cincinnati. These moves are not all because of CVG. The State of Ohio has become extremely expensive for business' to be located. For instance Springfield, OH lost the Toyota plant to HAttiesburg, MS after it was selected. Some where else in Ohio lost the Honda plant to Greensberg, Indiana. Although Greensberg, IN is close to Cincy, IND is much more reasonable in airfares.


User currently offlineSlcDeltaRUmd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2850 times:

Anyone can write on wiki so its that one authors opinions.

Even if delta makes CVG a regular city not even a focus city there is a chance that the CDG flight lasts.....no one really knows. If it can remain extremely profitable DL has no reason to cancel it. The CVG-CDG flight being strong is the only positive thing i can remember DL saying recently about CVG

Unfortunitely CVG is basically done for DL. Even the most loyal CVG delta fans cant really expect it to last forever now. DL is just slowly pulling it down and down. Sad to see but its inevitable now. I remember the good old days at CVG.....


User currently offlineRafflesKing From Singapore, joined Mar 2007, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2783 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Thread starter):
"Today, many businesses in Cincinnati want Delta to re-establish the service it once had in the late '90's/early 2000s, and some have already relocated to other cities with more prominent airports."
Quoting avconsultant (Reply 1):
In 2005 or 2006 P&G relocated a lot of their sales teams out of CVG. I was told to DFW, but since have learned also to BOS.

Ahhhhhh, not quite. Our sales teams have always been based near customers (XNA for Walmart, MSP for Target, etc.) but that's not new, and represents a fraction of our US operations compared to what's near CVG. We acquired Gillette (BOS based) a few years back, and regularly shuttle pax between the two sites. DL service downgrades have made life annoying - i.e. no frequencies past 5:30pm make for short days in the office or an extra night in a hotel.

P&G now has a UA contract to supplement DL. We used to shuttle tons of pax on CVG-FRA, and also have large operations in BRU and GVA - so flying through IAD gives us more flexibility now.

High prices in CVG drove our BWI based employees to fly FL through DAY for several years, but we're back to CVG now after substantial price reductions.


User currently offlineCVG72 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 167 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2687 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Thread starter):
"The only remaining intercontinental service by Delta is a daily departure to Paris in the evening, but many business analysts speculate that this flight's days are also numbered in the future."

This is true. CVG-CDG is the only intercontinental flight left. The other international flights include a QK flight to YYZ, which doesn't start until May 17 and may or may not be seasonal, and seasonal flights on DL and U5 to CUN. Their website says that they fly to YUL and PUJ still, but it's wrong.

Here's an image of the major nonstop routes from CVG. All of the little dots in Mexico and Canada that aren't CUN and YYZ require connections.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg189/cincyboy729/cvgtimetable.jpg



Roll Tide // Next: UA/EV/LH CVG-EWR-FRA-DUS-MUC-EWR-CVG
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8868 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2661 times:

Quoting CVG72 (Reply 6):
The other international flights include a QK flight to YYZ, which doesn't start until May 17 and may or may not be seasonal, and seasonal flights on DL and U5 to CUN. Their website says that they fly to YUL and PUJ still, but it's wrong.

Delta still flies three daily CRJs to Toronto as well, and is resuming service to Montreal with a daily CRJ on May 2.


User currently offlineCVG72 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 167 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2617 times:

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 7):
Delta still flies three daily CRJs to Toronto as well, and is resuming service to Montreal with a daily CRJ on May 2.

DL 6629, 6535, 6483. Whoops.



Roll Tide // Next: UA/EV/LH CVG-EWR-FRA-DUS-MUC-EWR-CVG
User currently offlineTLHFLA From United States of America, joined May 2003, 589 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2271 times:

Any new word on if the Terminal 2 airlines are going to be moving to Terminal 3, Concourse A? That seems to make the most sense with Delta moving out. Even if they closed Terminal 2, there would be ample space in Concourse A for new carriers to move in. This way all the airlines would have nice, modern facilities.

I will be traveling through CVG for the first time next month. I am visiting friends in Lexington, but it was actually much cheaper to fly DL ATL-CVG!



Bill in ATL
User currently offlineavconsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2158 times:

Quoting RafflesKing (Reply 5):
P&G now has a UA contract to supplement DL. We used to shuttle tons of pax on CVG-FRA, and also have large operations in BRU and GVA - so flying through IAD gives us more flexibility now

Good for P&G on the UA contract, I was aware of those European ops and that adds a nice flow.

Quoting RafflesKing (Reply 5):
We acquired Gillette (BOS based) a few years back, and regularly shuttle pax between the two sites. DL service downgrades have made life annoying - i.e. no frequencies past 5:30pm make for short days in the office or an extra night in a hotel.

A former neighbor from CVG works for P&G, she mentioned P&G rate on FL DAY-BWI-BOS route to less then $225 r/t and it's a 717 with some flights offering same plane service. She said the DAY & BWI employees call it the P&G Express or Connection or something.

Quoting TLHFLA (Reply 9):
I am visiting friends in Lexington, but it was actually much cheaper to fly DL ATL-CVG!

ATL-LEX is very expensive, a few years back I tried booking a weekend trip to Keenland. It was $1500+. BTW, I recommend Keenland to anyone in the area when the races are taking place.


User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3277 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1893 times:

Quoting TLHFLA (Reply 9):
Any new word on if the Terminal 2 airlines are going to be moving to Terminal 3, Concourse A? That seems to make the most sense with Delta moving out.

Unless the airport board and DL can reach an agreement, the short answer is no. DL will still be paying for Concourse A, even if it's closed. DL won't allow anyone to move in without some relief beyond the cost of Concourse A. If KCAA lets them off the hook for A and C, you might see it.


User currently offlineCVG72 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 167 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1879 times:

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 11):
Quoting TLHFLA (Reply 9):
Any new word on if the Terminal 2 airlines are going to be moving to Terminal 3, Concourse A? That seems to make the most sense with Delta moving out.

Unless the airport board and DL can reach an agreement, the short answer is no. DL will still be paying for Concourse A, even if it's closed. DL won't allow anyone to move in without some relief beyond the cost of Concourse A. If KCAA lets them off the hook for A and C, you might see it.

In short, maybe.

From Cincinnati.com:

"On Monday [March 15], the Kenton County Airport Board approved a nearly $1 million contract to plan and design such a consolidation, which could eventually move American Airlines, United Airlines, US Airways and Continental Airlines out of Terminal 2 and into Concourse A."

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...03160011/Delta+closing+Concourse+A



Roll Tide // Next: UA/EV/LH CVG-EWR-FRA-DUS-MUC-EWR-CVG
User currently offlineTLHFLA From United States of America, joined May 2003, 589 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1659 times:

Delta seems willing to work with the airport on this issue. Hopefully, it will work out. It would probably save the airport money to close Terminal 2 and consolidate all of the other airlines to Terminal 3.


Bill in ATL
User currently offlineJohnClipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 826 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1658 times:

So if they brought everyone under the same terminal (Terminal 3) would they then rename it Terminal 1?

User currently offlineTLHFLA From United States of America, joined May 2003, 589 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1492 times:

Quoting JohnClipper (Reply 14):
So if they brought everyone under the same terminal (Terminal 3) would they then rename it Terminal 1?

Probably that or just call it the Main Terminal. I would think if future expansion is needed, Concourse A could be expanded to the west. However, if Delta continues to cut back, it's possible some of the gates in B could free up as well.



Bill in ATL
User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1449 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1404 times:

Quoting TLHFLA (Reply 15):
Probably that or just call it the Main Terminal. I would think if future expansion is needed, Concourse A could be expanded to the west. However, if Delta continues to cut back, it's possible some of the gates in B could free up as well.

Is the old airport master plan from around a decade ago still on the books? I seem to remember something about a new concourse D which was to be built where Terminal 1 and/or 2 is now. I just remember that that was the basic plan, so I don't have details, but that was at the time the plan to put everybody else but DL in Concourse D and use T3 for check-in, baggage, etc..


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