MKENut From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 697 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 10452 times:
Quoting UAL727NE (Reply 1): GEEEZ thread number 8 already! Pretty soon F9/YX threads will be passing the Irish and Jamacian threads lol.
You missed What's going on in PIT and The Minnesota Aviation Thread. LOL
I think we will be surprised on April 13th about branding and maybe a new code share. I have trouble envisioning a code share with AirTran. MKE is the wild card in all this if AirTran is going to be a partner. Maybe we will see AirTran moving to concourse D in the future?
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 23879 posts, RR: 87 Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 10431 times:
There was another interesting debate - or the start of one - posted in the previous thread by n7371f.
It was a good post about the Delta/Republic contracts. Since I don't want anyone to think I am cutting off debate, I'm reposting it in full here.
N7371f: "It's not that easy. I believe it was in a separate post, where I laid out the legal specifics for Delta (or Republic) to get out of the contract flying.
Briefly...Delta can go ahead and dump Chautauqua now. Delta would be on the hook for many of the E145's if it canceled all the flying immediately. Who knows...Delta might go ahead if it loses the Freedom (Mesa) lawsuit and is stuck with Freedom flying 20+ E145's.
Delta dumping Republic is much more difficult, for many reasons. Shuttle America owns the E175's flown under Delta Connection. Delta would have to assume all of the aircraft were it to terminate the contract early. You could argue that wouldn't be a big deal for Delta, as it could assume the payments and assign the planes to Compass, and it needs the 76-seat flying.
Another issue is the Delta pilots contract. I've been told it's not cut and dry that Delta (or one of its subsidiaries) could take on the ownership of these E175's (from Shuttle America) without violating the ratio of mainline jets to regional planes under 76 seats."
We don't often discuss the contract side of Republic's business, but obviously this has an affect on the company as a whole and thus the branded ops.
UAL727NE From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 205 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 10419 times:
I saw a pic of MKE taken from a 172, can someone point out the terminal's and with ones are who's? the round one, the really nice looking center one, and the last one, north side? of MKE. thanks in advance.
Gotta love 3 holers!!! MD11,DC10,L-1011,B727 for life!!!!
Airport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 10402 times:
Personally, I would love to see F9/YX/Republic and FL get closer and closer together. Something just sounds amazing about the idea of two 'enemies' uniting to fight an even bigger common enemy (WN). Enough to make me salivate quite heavily. On the other hand, it also would tremendously please me to see F9/YX/Republic and AS make some kind of partnership of some sort. The route maps almost couldn't be more complimentary.
Who knows, imagine a F9/YX/AS/FL/B6/RW MegaMerger! A new low-cost powerhouse carrier with major hubs in DEN, MKE, ATL, JFK, SEA, ANC, LAX and MCO. What a route map that would be! Of course, I'm just throwing thoughts together, not actually advocating this. But whoo, just imagine...
UAL727NE From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 205 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 10375 times:
Quoting Airport (Reply 5): Who knows, imagine a F9/YX/AS/FL/B6/RW MegaMerger! A new low-cost powerhouse carrier with major hubs in DEN, MKE, ATL, JFK, SEA, ANC, LAX and MCO. What a route map that would be! Of course, I'm just throwing thoughts together, not actually advocating this. But whoo, just imagine...
That would be HUGE!!! I think if that would ever happen, WN would run and hide in the corner. They would know that major of a LCC would smoke them and they would have noway of competing with them.
Gotta love 3 holers!!! MD11,DC10,L-1011,B727 for life!!!!
beryllium From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 10369 times:
Quoting mariner (Thread starter): I've no idea how Airtran feels about that potential, but it intrigues me that they have never ended the FF agreement with Frontier.
I don't think FL feels very positively about it.
It was one thing when F9 was independent.
It is a completely different story now, when F9 is just a branch of RAH, who is FL's fiercest competitor in MKE market.
The fact that this agreement is still in force and as of today has not been cancelled could, probably, be explained by some brutal financial consequences if it is terminated early. I don't know if that is the case, of course. But, that's might be the reason why they continue to have this "relationship".
In any case, FL 2009 annual report does not even mention F9 as a partner in the section where they discuss their A+ Rewards program. Most likely the agreement will be terminated as soon as it is financially appropriate for both parties...
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 23879 posts, RR: 87 Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 10352 times:
Quoting beryllium (Reply 7): The fact that this agreement is still in force and as of today has not been cancelled could, probably, be explained by some brutal financial consequences if it is terminated early. I don't know if that is the case, of course.
That could be. But within my experience, almost any contract of this kind makes provision for a material change of conditions, such as a change of ownership.
I'm in two minds about it. Yes, it has great positives, but it also has considerable negatives.
Airtran would undoubtedly be a good partner, but I think there could be more interesting possibilities out there.
What's interesting to me is that Delta must be aware of the possibility that it could happen. Unless BB has told them that it won't?
beryllium From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 10338 times:
Quoting Airport (Reply 5): Who knows, imagine a F9/YX/AS/FL/B6/RW MegaMerger! A new low-cost powerhouse carrier with major hubs in DEN, MKE, ATL, JFK, SEA, ANC, LAX and MCO.
... with BB behind the steering wheel of all that.
Quoting UAL727NE (Reply 6): That would be HUGE!!! I think if that would ever happen, WN would run and hide in the corner. They would know that major of a LCC would smoke them and they would have noway of competing with them.
... WN has been hiding in the corner since 1970-s... and quietly making $$$ almost in every quarter of almost every year (making their employees happy)... even when others were hiding in another corner (called Ch11 BK protection)... maybe that's why they are being hated so much?... for some it is so hard to accept someone else's success...
UAL727NE From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 205 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 10259 times:
Quoting beryllium (Reply 9): WN has been hiding in the corner since 1970-s... and quietly making $$$ almost in every quarter of almost every year (making their employees happy)... even when others were hiding in another corner (called Ch11 BK protection)... maybe that's why they are being hated so much?... for some it is so hard to accept someone else's success...
IDK, I know they make alot of money even with paying thier pilots huge money. I mean $181 an hr. for a first year Capt. on a 737?!?!?! I personally don't like WN, I don't bash them on here because one, I am just now starting to post alot more often then I have and two, I think they come off as cocky, but that's me. They wouldn't be my first of choices to fly for nor 2,3,4,5,6, unless they are the only ones hiring. But anyway enough rambling. I meant hiding in a corner a different way then hiding in a corner and making money.
P.S. not meant to start a fight on here like you and AirframeAS always seem to do LOL.
Gotta love 3 holers!!! MD11,DC10,L-1011,B727 for life!!!!
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25 Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 10224 times:
Quoting UAL727NE (Reply 1): I could see how a codeshare with AS would be really good. HUGE west coast Hawaii runs, topped with F9/YX's midwest/easternly runs. I think both airlines would benifit heavily on this.
I can agree to that, that would be so awesome to see. My take: Ditch FL and partner up with AS on a full-blown codeshare agreement. Oh, I can dream!
PlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4996 posts, RR: 29 Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 10198 times:
RAH has an upcoming announcement on April 13th concerning, at a minimum I guess, the branding decision. It might seem logical to also announce other structural changes at that time, including addressing the Delta agreement termination, though only if there is a positive counter to it.
AirTran has apparently not yet canceled - at least, publicly - their agreement with Frontier. We don't seem to have a firm date on when the agreement is up, or for that matter what limitations and terminable conditions might make it possible for one other the other to cancel early. As of now, it is still in place.
Perhaps - however unlikely - Republic and AirTran have come to a truce/agreement on MKE and are prepared to move forward with an expanded agreement. Thus Delta canceling their YX arrangement.
Alaska Airlines? Can you imagine the frothing mouths in Atlanta if RAH signed up with AirTran AND Alaska? LOL! Somehow I doubt that's coming.
Beryllium suggests Delta dumping RAH contract flying early, but provides no clear reference to the contract. Is this even doable, or is it just a fantas -er, I mean, fallacy?
Beryllium also questions the "change" of perspective concerning the FL/F9 FF agreement. I'm missing the big change, though. It worked before, and an expansion would have been welcomed. An expansion still could be a desirable outcome - what's the change? The only difference now is that the entire Frontier dynamic has changed since the RAH takeover. Now, it might make more sense to expand the agreement, but short of that, perhaps it would be better to part ways, allowing both carriers to move on with their lives. How this gets spun into something else is interesting.
I'm not clear on Beryllium's "puzzle", but I didn't understand what he was saying in the previous thread either in reference to the FL/DL rivalry. I think he must have meant that continuing the DL/YX agreement would have been a kick in the side of FL - but since that deal is dead, I am not clear how it was relevent. I guess I'll reread the line of thinking again to try to see his point. Certainly, RAH+DL - to me at least - would seem to be more competitive to FL than a stand-alone RAH.
There are certainly a lot of balls in the air at RAH, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Not necessarily good, either, but certainly interesting. I'm glad I am open-minded enough to accept success or failure of their plan without feeling too vested one way or the other.
Aww, but the route maps! The route maps are...so...perfect...
All right all right, I'll quit it with my obsession with route maps. Yeah, the concept would flop I'm sure. I mean, you have labor issues and integration, which would be a complete nightmare. You'd have to determine what the end product would, which I'm sure it wouldn't be feasible to integrate everything. Of course, the list goes on and on...
....but the route structure......so....complimentary!
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11): I wouldn't. Something is just not right about FL..... and I can see how complicated the relationship would ensue, and it is more than the reservations dilemma.
Really? Hmm, well, I'm nothing more than a bystander in this all, so I'll leave the engaged opinions to those who actually work in the industry (hopefully that will change in the next few weeks though, cross-fingers). I would rather see an AS partnership vs. an FL partnership, but, hmm, what do I know?
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25 Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 10173 times:
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 13): AirTran has apparently not yet canceled - at least, publicly - their agreement with Frontier.
That surprises me the most. FL is more of a competitor than a partner in so many ways. It seems FL doesn't really want to work with F9 at all. If that is the case, then why is FL even bothering with continuing the agreement?
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 13): Alaska Airlines? Can you imagine the frothing mouths in Atlanta if RAH signed up with AirTran AND Alaska?
I would absolutely LOVE to see that!!! That would shock the industry.
beryllium From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 10128 times:
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 13): Beryllium suggests Delta dumping RAH contract flying early, but provides no clear reference to the contract. Is this even doable, or is it just a fantas -er, I mean, fallacy?
I did not provide clear reference to the contract, because I do not have access to it.
If you have one - the relevant extracts from it are more than welcome here.
If you read my post without prejudice, you would notice that I simply said that it is truly amazing that a major can be binded by the contract, with no right to terminate it at its will, while a regional, who is supposed to be a supplier for that major, can freely do with the money (that it receives from a major) whatever it wants - even starting branded ops and competing against that very major. If the contract does not contain such provisions, and does not allow a major to terminate contract when a feeder suddenly becomes a competitor, I find it nothing short of spectacular.
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 13): I'm not clear on Beryllium's "puzzle", but I didn't understand what he was saying in the previous thread either in reference to the FL/DL rivalry. I think he must have meant that continuing the DL/YX agreement would have been a kick in the side of FL - but since that deal is dead, I am not clear how it was relevent. I guess I'll reread the line of thinking again to try to see his point. Certainly, RAH+DL - to me at least - would seem to be more competitive to FL than a stand-alone RAH.
It is not so difficult to comprehend. Just a little effort - that's all it takes.
I can certainly help you with that. Let's do it step by step. Here is the scoop:
(a) DL hates FL
(b) FL is big in MKE
(c) DL does not want FL to be succesfful in MKE (just like it does not want FL to be successful in ATL or anywhere else)
(d) Who is FL's biggest rival in MKE?.... It is RAH.
(e) Therefore, by helping RAH in MKE DL could kick FL, whom DL hates
(f) How DL can help RAH in MKE?... By offering codeshare... Codeshare would help RAH customers get access to those markets where RAH does not fly but DL does... Codeshare would prevent those passengers from taking their business to FL... Codeshare would help RAH get additional traffic, which otherwise would go to FL...
Still a "puzzle"?
Now, yes, the DL/YX deal is dead.
Which means that for DL this relationship has no value. DL does not need YX/RAH even for that - even for an opportunity to kick FL (described above)...
FRNT787 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1307 posts, RR: 16 Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 10117 times:
Quoting beryllium (Reply 16): can freely do with the money (that it receives from a major) whatever it wants - even starting branded ops and competing against that very major
No company should sign a contract limiting the use of their profits. In other words, DL should have no right to tell RAH they cannot use the money they make from contract flying to build a brand. If DL does not like it, they can let the contract expire when the time comes, I would fall over in shock if anyone allowed them to cancel the contract early.
"We have a right to fail, because failure makes us grow" --Glenn Beck
beryllium From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 10086 times:
Quoting FRNT787 (Reply 17): No company should sign a contract limiting the use of their profits. In other words, DL should have no right to tell RAH they cannot use the money they make from contract flying to build a brand. If DL does not like it, they can let the contract expire when the time comes, I would fall over in shock if anyone allowed them to cancel the contract early.
"... limiting the use of their profits. In other words...".
In other words, it's kind of like, I (DL) will give you (RAH) money so that you could buy a gun, which you will use as a weapon... against me...
Funny, isn't it?
But, that's exactly how it works between DL and RAH as of now.
And to me it is amazing that now that RAH competes with DL in branded business, the contract between DL and RAH does not say anything about that, and does not allow DL to drop all RAH flying without being penalized for that.
FRNT787 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1307 posts, RR: 16 Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 10076 times:
Quoting beryllium (Reply 18): And to me it is amazing that now that RAH competes with DL in branded business, the contract between DL and RAH does not say anything about that, and does not allow DL to drop all RAH flying without being penalized for that.
It would be amazing to me if RAH signed away any of there potential business moves in such a contract.
"We have a right to fail, because failure makes us grow" --Glenn Beck
Not at all. Just referring to an extension of the existing agreement.
Quoting beryllium (Reply 16): If you read my post without prejudice, you would notice that I simply said that it is truly amazing that a major can be binded by the contract,
Actually, that particular post was later. The post I was referring to said:
"DL is definitely re-evaluating its relationship with RAH at this time, and I think DL will soon be looking for ways to dump the RAH contract flying. (There is no reason why they have to support the airline which competes with them head-to-head on several routes)."
You question why Delta should have to support RAH. It's called a contract. Since no one seems to know what sort of language is in the contract, it seems a bit of a stretch to suggest that they have an option when we don't know that that's the case. In other words, maybe there IS a reason why they have to continue.
I appeciate the "prejudice" comment. Again, when someone questions you, you always play the victim card. There are things you say I agree with or otherwise do not question. The things I mentioned in my post were otherwise. Not rocket science.
Despite the condecending tone, I'll skip your rehash and just explain what was confusing.
1. Mariner felt that the ending of the YX/DL agreement was a big plus.
2. You asked "For YX or DL".
3. Mariner said "I don't know what the plus would be here for Delta?". In other words, the contract ending - what would the plus be?
4. You said "Well... maybe, for DL it could be an opportunity to kick FL yet another time (they love them so much)... "
Now, at this point, it seems pretty clear that Delta can't be kicking FL yet another time when they are pulling the rug out from under FL's primary MKE competitor. the deal is dead. But we continue...
5. Mariner tried to connect your dots, but ultimately said "But I don't see how this is any way for Delta to further kick Airtran - if anything, the reverse is true."
In other words, the agreement between AirTran's biggest competitor (DL) and their biggest MKE rival (YX) is over, and it's hard to see that as a positive in any way for Delta in relation to FL. If anything, it helps FL in MKE more.
But then you come back with...
6. "Is it such a puzzle?
Codeshare could boost YX traffic in MKE, and therefore steal some traffic from FL over there.
Does DL want FL to get any additional traffic? Of course, not."
To me, despite trying to make others seem "puzzled", the fact is that you aren't clearly articulating your thoughts in that you obviously are talking "what if's" if the DL/YX deal remained, which wasn't what anyone was talking about, and which you never clarified before.
But, still, you make it seem like everyone else has the problem when, in reality, sometimes (and only sometimes) you don't make sense. It'd be nice - once again - if you'd not try pointing fingers at others, but instead just clarify. Especially when you talk about English as a second language, I would think that you might be a little bit more humble about your choice of words when someone doesn't follow.
beryllium From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 10055 times:
Quoting FRNT787 (Reply 19): It would be amazing to me if RAH signed away any of there potential business moves in such a contract.
There is no need for that many potential business moves that should be addressed.
Any contract contains rights and responsibilities of the parties.
And all what is needed to make things crystal clear for this issue is just one line.
Something like "DL is free to terminate this contract at its own discretion and at any time without penalty, if RAH chooses to start its own branded operations and compete against DL".
If the contract between DL and RAH does not contain a provision of this kind, it really surprises me very, very much.
DL lawyers could not see that (RAH branded ops) as a possibility? Even in theory?
PlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4996 posts, RR: 29 Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 10051 times:
Quoting beryllium (Reply 21): If the contract between DL and RAH does not contain a provision of this kind, it really surprises me very, very much.
DL lawyers could not see that (RAH branded ops) as a possibility? Even in theory?
It wouldn't be the first time that loophole was left in a contract for a major company.
FRNT787 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1307 posts, RR: 16 Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 10027 times:
Quoting beryllium (Reply 21): Any contract contains rights and responsibilities of the parties.
And everyone in this contract is meeting theirs.
Quoting beryllium (Reply 21): Something like "DL is free to terminate this contract at its own discretion and at any time without penalty, if RAH chooses to start its own branded operations and compete against DL".
It would surprise me if RAH would allow any such provision. That is what I mean.
"We have a right to fail, because failure makes us grow" --Glenn Beck
25 PlanesNTrains: I can certainly see the wisdom of having that in the contract, but I'd ask "What's in it for RAH?" The contract is a mutually beneficial agreement -
26 beryllium: There is no victim card. It is clearly visible from your post whether you are biased or "just questioning"... ... OK. Let's see: Mariner felt that en
27 mariner: The shackles come off. Delta is prepared to code share with Midwest, but is not prepared to code share with Frontier - for fairly obvious reasons. It
28 beryllium: You sound as if it is all up to RAH to decide what would be in the contract, and DL has no say in this... The contract was a mutually beneficial agre
29 mariner: And Delta helped them do it. Delta gave their 40% shareholding in Midwest to Republic, effectively for no money. Obviously Delta didn't think it was
30 beryllium: So YX is fine for DL, while F9 is not. But, aren't they (F9 and YX) becoming one unified brand some time soon? Or the unified brand is going to be mo
31 PlanesNTrains: I'm sure there's probably a more appropriate name for it, but in the end, who cares? Well, if it ain't the ol' Pot calling the Kettle Black. LOL Not
32 mariner: Yes. And - ? Four months ago BB publicly said this was a decision he he had to make. If you're not convinced by it, I can only shrug. mariner
33 PlanesNTrains: I just would like to add one thing. If you don't understand something someone is saying, feel free to ask. Just because you have a problem with those
34 PlanesNTrains: Every time you say this, it always draws the sound of crickets. Oh, and I feel bad bothering you again, but I'm not clear where I was inarticulate? I
35 mariner: Ah - not a badger. That is an Alaskan Fisher Bear. It was on the tail of one of the E170's when Republic flew contract for Frontier: View Large View
36 PlanesNTrains: If AirTran and Delta are both out, then domestically I wonder who would be a good match? I know you mentioned Hawaiian Airlines as one option. Others
37 mariner: I've no idea. As I said it is like three dimensional chess and I've got one hand tied behind my back. I don't know if Airtran is out. Nor do I know i
38 sunking737: May I suggest Martin or maybe Marty. Just seems to fit. After reading this post I feel like a dog chasing its tail.....Just dizzy.
39 knope2001: That's E...eight gates in the rotunda...six DL and two CO...and two gates on the stem which are not occupied. That's D...twenty one YX/F9 gates...six
40 kingcavalier: N205FR just took off from Gander, Newfoundland, Canada - YQX for an almost 6 hour delivery flight to DEN. It is scheduled to arrive in DEN around 1535
41 AirframeAS: It's a nice looking tail. Wonder if it will be on a future A320. I am hoping Ozzie is not the last tail. Who? Me? Nahhhh! I thought it would either g
42 kingcavalier: I believe Mariner mentioned that F9 had received an exemption so they could accept deliveries directly into DEN.
43 AirframeAS: I missed that part, thanks for the correction. I originally assumed it would go to our "Delivery Center" in PHX first, do the necessary mx, then put
44 dfanucci: Anybody know (cough AirframeAS ) wether or not it is planned to head to MCO in the future? I'm wondering if this new bird is the first Salvo in the r
45 AirframeAS: Since I am no longer associated with the MX department, I honestly do not know. I am assuming we will install LiveTV at MCO. If we do, then it won't
46 mariner: I know they had an exemption for the first 2 x A320 - so SM said. I don't know if it applies to all A320, but I guess it must in this case. My bad -
47 MostlyAir: Email currently going out to MM Members: I hope this will help to clear up any confusion.
48 n7371f: Are you referring to the Delta agreement with Republic involving Chautauqua and Shuttle America? If so, there is no wording in the contract flying re
49 mariner: I think this is quite interesting in view of what has happened today - being discussed in this thread: AA/B6 Interline Agreement Announced (by thirte
50 PlanesNTrains: Thanks for clarifying these points. It was an area of confusion regarding what options exist for DL. -Dave
51 MCI10: She is scheduled to go to MCO around the second week in April, for Live TV install. Dont know the exact date.
52 MostlyAir: Also an additional link to the Midwest announcement about the Delta Frequent Flyer relationship. http://www.midwestairlines.com/Midwe...a-Frequent-Fly
53 AirframeAS: Ladies and Gentlemen.... without further ado.... I present you with aircraft N205FR! My manager and I serviced the aircraft upon arrival and removed t
54 MKENut: Nice pictures! Thanks for taking the time to post them.
55 sunking737: Wow Don't you just like that new plane smell....OMG, better than a car. AirframeAS you are the man. Thanks for including galley pics.
56 FRNT787: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/rep...ts-2010-03-31?reflink=MW_news_stmp RAH made 2 additional executive appointments, including a former F9 executiv
57 beryllium: Well... Mesa/go! - they do not compete head-to-head with UA and US. go'! is a niche inter-island Hawaii operation, which does not affect UA or US. So
58 AirframeAS: You're welcome! Thanks for the compliment! Keep in mind, guys, that I have my manager's permission to post these pics. That is what I wanted to smell
59 beryllium: JetBlue has JFK, and Lufthansa flies to JFK - that's the reason why there is a partnership between them. Lufthansa's Star Alliance partner - United -
60 mariner: Yes. And I seriously doubt BB is intending a partnership similar to JetBlue and Lufthansa. But everything has to start somewhere. And if, in the end,
61 MKENut: BB said in the past that all their contract flying is iron clad.... Meaning if DL decides they want to cancel the contract with Republic before the e
62 MCI10: Thanks for the pictures. Ozzie looks great! I was hoping she would clear customs in MCI first.
63 n7371f: Frontier put out a press release, with a picture, announcing the arrival on N205FR. Accuse me of reading too much into this...but if you were going to
64 Airport: Something is telling me that Republic might not only keep the F9 name, but may even keep the very basic F9 livery, with maybe just a small readjustmen
65 FRNT787: And LH owns 25% of Jetblue, that makes this arrangement even more interesting IMO. The post was in reference to contract language. So it is the same
66 ERJ: Thanks for the pics! Thats one shiny new plane. Besides the LiveTV install, do you know what else it has to go through before revenue service? Just c
67 beryllium: I wonder how much. And even if it's a lot, DL would probably make a smart move by dropping the contract and ending this subsidy of the competitor, on
68 AirframeAS: You're welcome. From my experience doing the 203/204 induction, the only thing that is left is programming software and the placards, kits, etc etc.
69 n7371f: Some responses...first off to the poster you were replying to, there isn't a monetary amount available. What is known is Delta would have to assume o
70 FRNT787: As n7371f pointed out, it is not as simple as paying up. If they simply pay up, they have to not only pay up a (I assume) substantial amount to RAH,
71 PlanesNTrains: Perhaps there are reasons why such a condition is not written into the contract. Perhaps Republic would not sign a contract with language that restri
72 mariner: I keep going back to the beginning of it. Northwest - that is now Delta - put a big bunch of money into Midwest and they did it to crimp Airtran at M
73 norcal: Here is an interview that Doug Parker gave addressing the RAH situation at US Airways. It sounds like the only restriction on RAH, according to Parke
74 dfanucci: I'll go even one better. Why would Republic in their miles update (Delta cancellation) even mention Frontier if that name was going away? Sure the up
75 kingcavalier: I noticed they still need to put the American flag on the rear of the a/c, and I believe the first 4 rows need the seat pitch increased for Stretch s
76 MKENut: I have a feeling my dream of seeing Midwest Livery on a B737 or A320 will never happen. Oh well, that is the way the cookie crumbles.
77 HermansCVR580: Does anybody know where the announcement will be made from? I think if you do it from MKE and say your dropping the Midwest name in favor of the Front
78 MCI10: They are making the announcement from MKE and DEN at the same time on the 13th.
79 mke717spotter: You're right, the fact that they're stopped repainting the Embraers (E190s/E145s) into YX colors while still rolling out F9 planes pretty much ends t
80 Antoniemey: DL is paying RAH to fly routes for them. So are AA, CO, UA, US... And none of them are pitching a fit (at least publicly) about RAH now owning two br
81 kingcavalier: But I think the point has been made several times now that YX is already gone, and the community has accepted that. It is a virtual airline. They wan
82 UAL747DEN: DEN, why not? There is plenty of feed into DEN and with the large O/D DEN has I could see DEN working well if done the right way. I don't understand
83 beryllium: Yes, I know they are all paying RAH to fly regional routes for them. But there is no shortage of regional airlines out there nowadays. And DL could e
84 mariner: I think Mr. Parker hits the nail on the head, from a legacy perspective, in a small throwaway: "We're rather it was them (Republic running Frontier)
85 beryllium: Could be. And that definitely makes sense. I am interested what UA/RAH contract says about that - is there anything that prohibits RAH "flying on tou
86 AirframeAS: I do not believe any of the branded ops are included in that contract, and they shouldn't be.
87 YXwatcherMkE: I must disagree with your comment above. I have been a fan of YX since the first day of their operation, I was able to fly on them on there second fl
88 FRNT787: Finding someone with the spare capacity to replace the E175s immediately is not as easy as you are making it out to be. This also is not as big of a
89 Atlwest1: I can say that while some may infact stay with YX/F9 there are many who are not the infrequent flyer who are switching to FL. Now what i think you wi
90 mariner: Even if there is, it won't apply to routes that were flown prior to the purchase. But since then, Frontier/Midwest has announced routes that are comm
91 YXwatcherMkE: In MKE WN is not that big of a threat to F9/YX operations, in fact look at enilria new OAG tread... see link below... look at WN list you will see th
92 mke717spotter: Well its still called Midwest Airlines, they still use the slogan "The best care in the air", and they still serve cookies (usually) on their flights
93 kingcavalier: I'm sorry, but I just don't agree. A blue paint scheme does not fool me. It's not the same ole YX. The last time I was in MKE I saw several Frontier
94 F9Animal: Very nice pics! Also, your pics show nothing that would cause alarm! LOL! Nice job, and welcome home Ozzie! I stated a week or so ago that I have a s
95 UAL747DEN: There is also no problem with the United flying, all of the RAH flying is just fine...... Why do you want so badly for there to be a problem? I kind
96 norcal: It's not like RAH would stop flying on Monday and Compass would start on Tuesday. It would wind down gradually and orderly over a month or to. There
97 kingcavalier: Then some of my point was not made. I am totally on board with switching the YX name to a new name, and I don't think current YX passengers will flee
98 mariner: I thought the reason Republic is doing this is because there is the possibility that some contracts will not be renewed anyway - branded ops or no br
99 n7371f: So you think Delta can afford to dump 16 ERJ-175's and 2 ERJ-170's and just shuffle around a few other planes? Boy I'd love to see how you can replac
100 FRNT787: They are a top performer for US though. And if they come close to meeting that level with DL, then they are meeting their contract. DL either has to
101 beryllium: I want it neither badly nor "goodly". I couldn't care less. I am just surprised that there is, as you say, no problem between UA and RAH, given that
102 n7371f: You're missing the point that the ERJ-175 plane is a key ingredient in Delta's plan. They run these planes on routes that can't be backfilled with CR
103 mariner: One mo' time - it is a competitor that Delta helped to create. Up until June 23, 2009 Delta was the minority (40%) owner of Midwest. This did not giv
104 AirframeAS: It may say "Midwest" on the side of the E190/70's, but it's still Republic's aircraft. It is worth repeating: Midwest is dead. The 121 certificate is
105 enilria: The DL situation isn't surprising to me and I predicted it a long time ago, but the bigger question is why doesn't UA follow suit and start separatin
106 enilria: BTW, you know another impact of the DL deal going away is that it *could* change the branding decision. Calling it an unknown name like Republic was
107 AirframeAS: I had a similar thought about this very subject a few days ago, but did not want to post it here, but here goes anyway.... I have a feeling that BB w
108 AirframeAS: Mariner stated that BB said to that it is "all or nothing" when it came to DL.
109 UAL747DEN: I guess we are in the same place on this! Your post just made me scream out loud "WTF"!!!!! You cant be serious! It would be a HUGE problem to lose t
110 FL787: Just to make sure what we're talking about is factual, RAH is not flying E170s for DL anymore. Just the 16 E175s and 24 ERJs. Maybe you'd see an E170
111 LAXintl: Contractually there is no problem, and operationally Republic is a high performing CPA partner for United. As far as the mood outside the contract, i
112 mariner: I think Doug Parker gave a huge clue there. What applies to US applies more so to United. I see no downside in aiming high. I thought he said an alli
113 n7371f: According to Deltanet, Shuttle America is still running 2 E70's.
114 mke717spotter: Of course its not gonna fool you, me, or anybody else on these forums, but it will fool the average flyer and that's what its been doing.
115 FL787: And according to RAH, it's only the 16 E175s. And as I said, you won't find an E70 in DL schedules. http://www.republicairlines.com/investorrelations
116 FRNT787: That is my thought. BB wants the same rights to apply to all passengers within the RAH branded network. Thus the DL arrangement needed to expand to a
117 beryllium: I could never imagine that any company in any business would be helping to create a competitor for itself. Something just does not smell right here.
118 mariner: They could have done any number of negative things with that 40%. It isn't just limited to that. Delta had the contractual power to inhibit the Front
119 beryllium: You read too much into what I wrote. I know that "it is not all you did at UA" (and I never said that it was all you did), and I know that everyone i
120 mariner: Oh, I don't think so, I'm sure they can wait, forever even. I think you are completely missing the point. As in: mariner
121 beryllium: I guess I do. And the point is... ?
122 mariner: Why waste my time, I've posted it all before. Whatever I say, you attempt to deride or negate. Now you sneer at his ambition to create a better airli
123 beryllium: Not "whatever"... only selected things... I think, you are doing pretty much the same thing, though. I do not see a problem with that. And I don't kn
124 mariner: Ah - backtracking. You laughed. You sneered. LOL. I am Jesuit trained. I thrive on genuine adversity - intelligent adversity. It keeps my on my toes.
125 beryllium: Republic Airways to purchase Delta; become world's largest airline In a surprise move, Indianapolis-based Republic Airlines today announced its intent
126 FRNT787: DL did...as has been posted. It vary may well happen down the road, if and when the branded is profitable. LOL. Pot, Kettle, Black.
127 n7371f: Why don't you go and get a Delta employee password and log onto Deltanet and then go to their scheduling sections? Why so snappy? I've read Republic'
128 n7371f: I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned (but with thousands of posts it is possible to miss one) but wasn't Sean Menke's last day with Frontier yeste
129 beryllium: That's the viewpoint of that poster. Nothing more. I understand that his words are of undisputable authority to you (we have seen it here many times)
130 mariner: What explanation? You got two press releases with dates. They're the facts. mariner
131 beryllium: Your post #103... Wasn't that the explanation? As for the press-releases... do you mean they explicitly said (or at least hinted on) that DL helped R
132 norcal: In all likely hood DL wouldn't have to "dump" the aircraft because another regional would jump at the opportunity to fly them for DL. A carrier like
133 mariner: The essential part of that post was the two dated press releases. Delta knew that Republic was buying Frontier before Delta agreed to Republic buying
134 beryllium: Where is the big green check mark? (I am ready to put it here)
135 mariner: Yes, I said that. To my knowledge, no other regional has ever done what Republic is doing. IAir didn't. Xjet didn't. And no one is looking for favors
136 beryllium: Oh yeah, they read over there at DL... You gave links to 2 press-releases from June 2009 in your post. What could Delta possibly know about Republic
137 AirframeAS: I don't remember you saying specifically that at all. That's not what you said. I disagree. If DL cancels and then UA cancels on RAH, the domino effe
138 mariner: Pretty much everything, as much as could be known. But I won't bother you with how companies have to operate, what they have to reveal - by law - whe
139 beryllium: Does it? I guess, I missed that in their annual report...