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New Frontier/Midwest #8  
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25281 posts, RR: 85
Posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11697 times:
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The last thread ended with a debate about potential code share or alliance partners.

This subject is clearly in BB's mind, but I don't care which way they go. If it is a good deal, go for it. If not, go it alone.

The possibility of extending the Airtran relationship with Frontier/Midwest is quite interesting, though. It would make a fairly formidable combo at MKE.

I've no idea how Airtran feels about that potential, but it intrigues me that they have never ended the FF agreement with Frontier.

The downside is that it may be limiting to BB's ambitions for Frontier/Midwest.



mariner


aeternum nauta
256 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUAL727NE From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11686 times:

GEEEZ thread number 8 already! Pretty soon F9/YX threads will be passing the Irish and Jamacian threads lol.

Anywho. I could see how a codeshare with AS would be really good. HUGE west coast Hawaii runs, topped with F9/YX's midwest/easternly runs. I think both airlines would benifit heavily on this.

[Edited 2010-03-30 19:44:17]


Gotta love 3 holers!!! MD11,DC10,L-1011,B727 for life!!!!
User currently offlineMKENut From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 699 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 11634 times:

Quoting UAL727NE (Reply 1):
GEEEZ thread number 8 already! Pretty soon F9/YX threads will be passing the Irish and Jamacian threads lol.

You missed What's going on in PIT and The Minnesota Aviation Thread. LOL

I think we will be surprised on April 13th about branding and maybe a new code share. I have trouble envisioning a code share with AirTran. MKE is the wild card in all this if AirTran is going to be a partner. Maybe we will see AirTran moving to concourse D in the future?


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25281 posts, RR: 85
Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 11613 times:
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There was another interesting debate - or the start of one - posted in the previous thread by n7371f.

It was a good post about the Delta/Republic contracts. Since I don't want anyone to think I am cutting off debate, I'm reposting it in full here.

N7371f: "It's not that easy. I believe it was in a separate post, where I laid out the legal specifics for Delta (or Republic) to get out of the contract flying.

Briefly...Delta can go ahead and dump Chautauqua now. Delta would be on the hook for many of the E145's if it canceled all the flying immediately. Who knows...Delta might go ahead if it loses the Freedom (Mesa) lawsuit and is stuck with Freedom flying 20+ E145's.

Delta dumping Republic is much more difficult, for many reasons. Shuttle America owns the E175's flown under Delta Connection. Delta would have to assume all of the aircraft were it to terminate the contract early. You could argue that wouldn't be a big deal for Delta, as it could assume the payments and assign the planes to Compass, and it needs the 76-seat flying.

Another issue is the Delta pilots contract. I've been told it's not cut and dry that Delta (or one of its subsidiaries) could take on the ownership of these E175's (from Shuttle America) without violating the ratio of mainline jets to regional planes under 76 seats."


We don't often discuss the contract side of Republic's business, but obviously this has an affect on the company as a whole and thus the branded ops.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineUAL727NE From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 11601 times:

I saw a pic of MKE taken from a 172, can someone point out the terminal's and with ones are who's? the round one, the really nice looking center one, and the last one, north side? of MKE. thanks in advance.


Gotta love 3 holers!!! MD11,DC10,L-1011,B727 for life!!!!
User currently offlineAirport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 11584 times:

Personally, I would love to see F9/YX/Republic and FL get closer and closer together. Something just sounds amazing about the idea of two 'enemies' uniting to fight an even bigger common enemy (WN). Enough to make me salivate quite heavily. On the other hand, it also would tremendously please me to see F9/YX/Republic and AS make some kind of partnership of some sort. The route maps almost couldn't be more complimentary.

Who knows, imagine a F9/YX/AS/FL/B6/RW MegaMerger! A new low-cost powerhouse carrier with major hubs in DEN, MKE, ATL, JFK, SEA, ANC, LAX and MCO. What a route map that would be! Of course, I'm just throwing thoughts together, not actually advocating this. But whoo, just imagine...

Cheers!
Anthony/Airport


User currently offlineUAL727NE From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 11557 times:

Quoting Airport (Reply 5):
Who knows, imagine a F9/YX/AS/FL/B6/RW MegaMerger! A new low-cost powerhouse carrier with major hubs in DEN, MKE, ATL, JFK, SEA, ANC, LAX and MCO. What a route map that would be! Of course, I'm just throwing thoughts together, not actually advocating this. But whoo, just imagine...

That would be HUGE!!! I think if that would ever happen, WN would run and hide in the corner. They would know that major of a LCC would smoke them and they would have noway of competing with them.



Gotta love 3 holers!!! MD11,DC10,L-1011,B727 for life!!!!
User currently offlineberyllium From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 11551 times:

Quoting mariner (Thread starter):
I've no idea how Airtran feels about that potential, but it intrigues me that they have never ended the FF agreement with Frontier.

I don't think FL feels very positively about it.
It was one thing when F9 was independent.
It is a completely different story now, when F9 is just a branch of RAH, who is FL's fiercest competitor in MKE market.
The fact that this agreement is still in force and as of today has not been cancelled could, probably, be explained by some brutal financial consequences if it is terminated early. I don't know if that is the case, of course. But, that's might be the reason why they continue to have this "relationship".
In any case, FL 2009 annual report does not even mention F9 as a partner in the section where they discuss their A+ Rewards program. Most likely the agreement will be terminated as soon as it is financially appropriate for both parties...


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25281 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 11534 times:
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Quoting beryllium (Reply 7):
The fact that this agreement is still in force and as of today has not been cancelled could, probably, be explained by some brutal financial consequences if it is terminated early. I don't know if that is the case, of course.

That could be. But within my experience, almost any contract of this kind makes provision for a material change of conditions, such as a change of ownership.

I'm in two minds about it. Yes, it has great positives, but it also has considerable negatives.

Airtran would undoubtedly be a good partner, but I think there could be more interesting possibilities out there.

What's interesting to me is that Delta must be aware of the possibility that it could happen. Unless BB has told them that it won't?

It's such a good game.  

mariner

[Edited 2010-03-30 20:28:37]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineberyllium From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 11520 times:

Quoting Airport (Reply 5):
Who knows, imagine a F9/YX/AS/FL/B6/RW MegaMerger! A new low-cost powerhouse carrier with major hubs in DEN, MKE, ATL, JFK, SEA, ANC, LAX and MCO.

... with BB behind the steering wheel of all that.  
Quoting UAL727NE (Reply 6):
That would be HUGE!!! I think if that would ever happen, WN would run and hide in the corner. They would know that major of a LCC would smoke them and they would have noway of competing with them.

... WN has been hiding in the corner since 1970-s... and quietly making $$$ almost in every quarter of almost every year (making their employees happy)... even when others were hiding in another corner (called Ch11 BK protection)... maybe that's why they are being hated so much?... for some it is so hard to accept someone else's success...


User currently offlineUAL727NE From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11441 times:

Quoting beryllium (Reply 9):
WN has been hiding in the corner since 1970-s... and quietly making $$$ almost in every quarter of almost every year (making their employees happy)... even when others were hiding in another corner (called Ch11 BK protection)... maybe that's why they are being hated so much?... for some it is so hard to accept someone else's success...

IDK, I know they make alot of money even with paying thier pilots huge money. I mean $181 an hr. for a first year Capt. on a 737?!?!?! I personally don't like WN, I don't bash them on here because one, I am just now starting to post alot more often then I have and two, I think they come off as cocky, but that's me. They wouldn't be my first of choices to fly for nor 2,3,4,5,6, unless they are the only ones hiring. But anyway enough rambling. I meant hiding in a corner a different way then hiding in a corner and making money.


P.S. not meant to start a fight on here like you and AirframeAS always seem to do LOL.



Gotta love 3 holers!!! MD11,DC10,L-1011,B727 for life!!!!
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11406 times:

Quoting UAL727NE (Reply 1):
I could see how a codeshare with AS would be really good. HUGE west coast Hawaii runs, topped with F9/YX's midwest/easternly runs. I think both airlines would benifit heavily on this.

I can agree to that, that would be so awesome to see. My take: Ditch FL and partner up with AS on a full-blown codeshare agreement. Oh, I can dream!   

Quoting mariner (Thread starter):

Nice badger, Mariner! What would you name him?

Quoting Airport (Reply 5):
Personally, I would love to see F9/YX/Republic and FL get closer and closer together.

I wouldn't. Something is just not right about FL..... and I can see how complicated the relationship would ensue, and it is more than the reservations dilemma.

Quoting Airport (Reply 5):
Who knows, imagine a F9/YX/AS/FL/B6/RW MegaMerger!

Oh, god, no.   

Quoting UAL727NE (Reply 10):
P.S. not meant to start a fight on here like you and AirframeAS always seem to do LOL.

Don't look at me.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineUAL727NE From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11395 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):
Don't look at me.

OK OK OK you're always in a back and forth conversation like 3 year old's LOL. note the LOL. One of you said that last thread.



Gotta love 3 holers!!! MD11,DC10,L-1011,B727 for life!!!!
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5582 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11380 times:

RAH has an upcoming announcement on April 13th concerning, at a minimum I guess, the branding decision. It might seem logical to also announce other structural changes at that time, including addressing the Delta agreement termination, though only if there is a positive counter to it.

AirTran has apparently not yet canceled - at least, publicly - their agreement with Frontier. We don't seem to have a firm date on when the agreement is up, or for that matter what limitations and terminable conditions might make it possible for one other the other to cancel early. As of now, it is still in place.

Perhaps - however unlikely - Republic and AirTran have come to a truce/agreement on MKE and are prepared to move forward with an expanded agreement. Thus Delta canceling their YX arrangement.

Alaska Airlines? Can you imagine the frothing mouths in Atlanta if RAH signed up with AirTran AND Alaska? LOL! Somehow I doubt that's coming.

Beryllium suggests Delta dumping RAH contract flying early, but provides no clear reference to the contract. Is this even doable, or is it just a fantas -er, I mean, fallacy?

Beryllium also questions the "change" of perspective concerning the FL/F9 FF agreement. I'm missing the big change, though. It worked before, and an expansion would have been welcomed. An expansion still could be a desirable outcome - what's the change? The only difference now is that the entire Frontier dynamic has changed since the RAH takeover. Now, it might make more sense to expand the agreement, but short of that, perhaps it would be better to part ways, allowing both carriers to move on with their lives. How this gets spun into something else is interesting.

I'm not clear on Beryllium's "puzzle", but I didn't understand what he was saying in the previous thread either in reference to the FL/DL rivalry. I think he must have meant that continuing the DL/YX agreement would have been a kick in the side of FL - but since that deal is dead, I am not clear how it was relevent. I guess I'll reread the line of thinking again to try to see his point. Certainly, RAH+DL - to me at least - would seem to be more competitive to FL than a stand-alone RAH.

There are certainly a lot of balls in the air at RAH, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Not necessarily good, either, but certainly interesting. I'm glad I am open-minded enough to accept success or failure of their plan without feeling too vested one way or the other.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineAirport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11379 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):
Oh, god, no.

LOL!

Aww, but the route maps! The route maps are...so...perfect...   

All right all right, I'll quit it with my obsession with route maps. Yeah, the concept would flop I'm sure. I mean, you have labor issues and integration, which would be a complete nightmare. You'd have to determine what the end product would, which I'm sure it wouldn't be feasible to integrate everything. Of course, the list goes on and on...

....but the route structure......so....complimentary!

 
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):
I wouldn't. Something is just not right about FL..... and I can see how complicated the relationship would ensue, and it is more than the reservations dilemma.

Really? Hmm, well, I'm nothing more than a bystander in this all, so I'll leave the engaged opinions to those who actually work in the industry (hopefully that will change in the next few weeks though, cross-fingers). I would rather see an AS partnership vs. an FL partnership, but, hmm, what do I know?

Cheers!
Anthony/Airport


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11355 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 13):
AirTran has apparently not yet canceled - at least, publicly - their agreement with Frontier.

That surprises me the most. FL is more of a competitor than a partner in so many ways. It seems FL doesn't really want to work with F9 at all. If that is the case, then why is FL even bothering with continuing the agreement?

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 13):
Alaska Airlines? Can you imagine the frothing mouths in Atlanta if RAH signed up with AirTran AND Alaska?

I would absolutely LOVE to see that!!! That would shock the industry.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 13):
Somehow I doubt that's coming.

Unfortunately, you are correct on that one.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 13):
Certainly, RAH+DL - to me at least - would seem to be more competitive to FL than a stand-alone RAH.

Are you suggesting a RAH merger into DL?

Quoting Airport (Reply 14):
I would rather see an AS partnership vs. an FL partnership

I'm with you on that one, sir!  



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineberyllium From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11310 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 13):
Beryllium suggests Delta dumping RAH contract flying early, but provides no clear reference to the contract. Is this even doable, or is it just a fantas -er, I mean, fallacy?

I did not provide clear reference to the contract, because I do not have access to it.
If you have one - the relevant extracts from it are more than welcome here.
If you read my post without prejudice, you would notice that I simply said that it is truly amazing that a major can be binded by the contract, with no right to terminate it at its will, while a regional, who is supposed to be a supplier for that major, can freely do with the money (that it receives from a major) whatever it wants - even starting branded ops and competing against that very major. If the contract does not contain such provisions, and does not allow a major to terminate contract when a feeder suddenly becomes a competitor, I find it nothing short of spectacular.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 13):
I'm not clear on Beryllium's "puzzle", but I didn't understand what he was saying in the previous thread either in reference to the FL/DL rivalry. I think he must have meant that continuing the DL/YX agreement would have been a kick in the side of FL - but since that deal is dead, I am not clear how it was relevent. I guess I'll reread the line of thinking again to try to see his point. Certainly, RAH+DL - to me at least - would seem to be more competitive to FL than a stand-alone RAH.

It is not so difficult to comprehend. Just a little effort - that's all it takes.
I can certainly help you with that. Let's do it step by step. Here is the scoop:
(a) DL hates FL
(b) FL is big in MKE
(c) DL does not want FL to be succesfful in MKE (just like it does not want FL to be successful in ATL or anywhere else)
(d) Who is FL's biggest rival in MKE?.... It is RAH.
(e) Therefore, by helping RAH in MKE DL could kick FL, whom DL hates
(f) How DL can help RAH in MKE?... By offering codeshare... Codeshare would help RAH customers get access to those markets where RAH does not fly but DL does... Codeshare would prevent those passengers from taking their business to FL... Codeshare would help RAH get additional traffic, which otherwise would go to FL...

Still a "puzzle"?

Now, yes, the DL/YX deal is dead.
Which means that for DL this relationship has no value. DL does not need YX/RAH even for that - even for an opportunity to kick FL (described above)...


User currently offlineFRNT787 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1324 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11299 times:

Quoting beryllium (Reply 16):
can freely do with the money (that it receives from a major) whatever it wants - even starting branded ops and competing against that very major

No company should sign a contract limiting the use of their profits. In other words, DL should have no right to tell RAH they cannot use the money they make from contract flying to build a brand. If DL does not like it, they can let the contract expire when the time comes, I would fall over in shock if anyone allowed them to cancel the contract early.



"We have a right to fail, because failure makes us grow" --Glenn Beck
User currently offlineberyllium From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11268 times:

Quoting FRNT787 (Reply 17):
No company should sign a contract limiting the use of their profits. In other words, DL should have no right to tell RAH they cannot use the money they make from contract flying to build a brand. If DL does not like it, they can let the contract expire when the time comes, I would fall over in shock if anyone allowed them to cancel the contract early.

"... limiting the use of their profits. In other words...".
In other words, it's kind of like, I (DL) will give you (RAH) money so that you could buy a gun, which you will use as a weapon... against me...  
Funny, isn't it?
But, that's exactly how it works between DL and RAH as of now.
And to me it is amazing that now that RAH competes with DL in branded business, the contract between DL and RAH does not say anything about that, and does not allow DL to drop all RAH flying without being penalized for that.


User currently offlineFRNT787 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1324 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11258 times:

Quoting beryllium (Reply 18):
And to me it is amazing that now that RAH competes with DL in branded business, the contract between DL and RAH does not say anything about that, and does not allow DL to drop all RAH flying without being penalized for that.

It would be amazing to me if RAH signed away any of there potential business moves in such a contract.



"We have a right to fail, because failure makes us grow" --Glenn Beck
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5582 posts, RR: 28
Reply 20, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11240 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 15):
Are you suggesting a RAH merger into DL?

Not at all. Just referring to an extension of the existing agreement.

Quoting beryllium (Reply 16):
If you read my post without prejudice, you would notice that I simply said that it is truly amazing that a major can be binded by the contract,

Actually, that particular post was later. The post I was referring to said:

"DL is definitely re-evaluating its relationship with RAH at this time, and I think DL will soon be looking for ways to dump the RAH contract flying. (There is no reason why they have to support the airline which competes with them head-to-head on several routes)."

You question why Delta should have to support RAH. It's called a contract. Since no one seems to know what sort of language is in the contract, it seems a bit of a stretch to suggest that they have an option when we don't know that that's the case. In other words, maybe there IS a reason why they have to continue.

I appeciate the "prejudice" comment. Again, when someone questions you, you always play the victim card. There are things you say I agree with or otherwise do not question. The things I mentioned in my post were otherwise. Not rocket science.

Quoting beryllium (Reply 16):
It is not so difficult to comprehend.

Despite the condecending tone, I'll skip your rehash and just explain what was confusing.

1. Mariner felt that the ending of the YX/DL agreement was a big plus.
2. You asked "For YX or DL".
3. Mariner said "I don't know what the plus would be here for Delta?". In other words, the contract ending - what would the plus be?
4. You said "Well... maybe, for DL it could be an opportunity to kick FL yet another time (they love them so much)... "

Now, at this point, it seems pretty clear that Delta can't be kicking FL yet another time when they are pulling the rug out from under FL's primary MKE competitor. the deal is dead. But we continue...

5. Mariner tried to connect your dots, but ultimately said "But I don't see how this is any way for Delta to further kick Airtran - if anything, the reverse is true."

In other words, the agreement between AirTran's biggest competitor (DL) and their biggest MKE rival (YX) is over, and it's hard to see that as a positive in any way for Delta in relation to FL. If anything, it helps FL in MKE more.

But then you come back with...

6. "Is it such a puzzle?
Codeshare could boost YX traffic in MKE, and therefore steal some traffic from FL over there.
Does DL want FL to get any additional traffic? Of course, not."

To me, despite trying to make others seem "puzzled", the fact is that you aren't clearly articulating your thoughts in that you obviously are talking "what if's" if the DL/YX deal remained, which wasn't what anyone was talking about, and which you never clarified before.

But, still, you make it seem like everyone else has the problem when, in reality, sometimes (and only sometimes) you don't make sense. It'd be nice - once again - if you'd not try pointing fingers at others, but instead just clarify. Especially when you talk about English as a second language, I would think that you might be a little bit more humble about your choice of words when someone doesn't follow.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineberyllium From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11237 times:

Quoting FRNT787 (Reply 19):
It would be amazing to me if RAH signed away any of there potential business moves in such a contract.

There is no need for that many potential business moves that should be addressed.
Any contract contains rights and responsibilities of the parties.
And all what is needed to make things crystal clear for this issue is just one line.
Something like "DL is free to terminate this contract at its own discretion and at any time without penalty, if RAH chooses to start its own branded operations and compete against DL".
If the contract between DL and RAH does not contain a provision of this kind, it really surprises me very, very much.
DL lawyers could not see that (RAH branded ops) as a possibility? Even in theory?


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25281 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11234 times:
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Quoting beryllium (Reply 9):
maybe that's why they are being hated so much?... for some it is so hard to accept someone else's success...

That's a tad paranoid. LOL.

Quoting beryllium (Reply 16):
Still a "puzzle"?

It is to me.

BB gets the shackles taken off and Delta still gets what they always wanted - Airtran doesn't have open slather at MKE.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5582 posts, RR: 28
Reply 23, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11233 times:

Quoting beryllium (Reply 21):
If the contract between DL and RAH does not contain a provision of this kind, it really surprises me very, very much.
DL lawyers could not see that (RAH branded ops) as a possibility? Even in theory?

It wouldn't be the first time that loophole was left in a contract for a major company.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineFRNT787 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1324 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11209 times:

Quoting beryllium (Reply 21):
Any contract contains rights and responsibilities of the parties.

And everyone in this contract is meeting theirs.

Quoting beryllium (Reply 21):
Something like "DL is free to terminate this contract at its own discretion and at any time without penalty, if RAH chooses to start its own branded operations and compete against DL".

It would surprise me if RAH would allow any such provision. That is what I mean.



"We have a right to fail, because failure makes us grow" --Glenn Beck
25 PlanesNTrains : I can certainly see the wisdom of having that in the contract, but I'd ask "What's in it for RAH?" The contract is a mutually beneficial agreement -
26 Post contains images beryllium : There is no victim card. It is clearly visible from your post whether you are biased or "just questioning"... ... OK. Let's see: Mariner felt that en
27 mariner : The shackles come off. Delta is prepared to code share with Midwest, but is not prepared to code share with Frontier - for fairly obvious reasons. It
28 beryllium : You sound as if it is all up to RAH to decide what would be in the contract, and DL has no say in this... The contract was a mutually beneficial agre
29 mariner : And Delta helped them do it. Delta gave their 40% shareholding in Midwest to Republic, effectively for no money. Obviously Delta didn't think it was
30 beryllium : So YX is fine for DL, while F9 is not. But, aren't they (F9 and YX) becoming one unified brand some time soon? Or the unified brand is going to be mo
31 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : I'm sure there's probably a more appropriate name for it, but in the end, who cares? Well, if it ain't the ol' Pot calling the Kettle Black. LOL Not
32 mariner : Yes. And - ? Four months ago BB publicly said this was a decision he he had to make. If you're not convinced by it, I can only shrug. mariner
33 PlanesNTrains : I just would like to add one thing. If you don't understand something someone is saying, feel free to ask. Just because you have a problem with those
34 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : Every time you say this, it always draws the sound of crickets. Oh, and I feel bad bothering you again, but I'm not clear where I was inarticulate? I
35 Post contains links and images mariner : Ah - not a badger. That is an Alaskan Fisher Bear. It was on the tail of one of the E170's when Republic flew contract for Frontier: View Large View
36 PlanesNTrains : If AirTran and Delta are both out, then domestically I wonder who would be a good match? I know you mentioned Hawaiian Airlines as one option. Others
37 Post contains images mariner : I've no idea. As I said it is like three dimensional chess and I've got one hand tied behind my back. I don't know if Airtran is out. Nor do I know i
38 Post contains images sunking737 : May I suggest Martin or maybe Marty. Just seems to fit. After reading this post I feel like a dog chasing its tail.....Just dizzy.
39 knope2001 : That's E...eight gates in the rotunda...six DL and two CO...and two gates on the stem which are not occupied. That's D...twenty one YX/F9 gates...six
40 Post contains links kingcavalier : N205FR just took off from Gander, Newfoundland, Canada - YQX for an almost 6 hour delivery flight to DEN. It is scheduled to arrive in DEN around 1535
41 Post contains images AirframeAS : It's a nice looking tail. Wonder if it will be on a future A320. I am hoping Ozzie is not the last tail. Who? Me? Nahhhh! I thought it would either g
42 kingcavalier : I believe Mariner mentioned that F9 had received an exemption so they could accept deliveries directly into DEN.
43 AirframeAS : I missed that part, thanks for the correction. I originally assumed it would go to our "Delivery Center" in PHX first, do the necessary mx, then put
44 Post contains images dfanucci : Anybody know (cough AirframeAS ) wether or not it is planned to head to MCO in the future? I'm wondering if this new bird is the first Salvo in the r
45 Post contains images AirframeAS : Since I am no longer associated with the MX department, I honestly do not know. I am assuming we will install LiveTV at MCO. If we do, then it won't
46 Post contains images mariner : I know they had an exemption for the first 2 x A320 - so SM said. I don't know if it applies to all A320, but I guess it must in this case. My bad -
47 MostlyAir : Email currently going out to MM Members: I hope this will help to clear up any confusion.
48 n7371f : Are you referring to the Delta agreement with Republic involving Chautauqua and Shuttle America? If so, there is no wording in the contract flying re
49 Post contains links mariner : I think this is quite interesting in view of what has happened today - being discussed in this thread: AA/B6 Interline Agreement Announced (by thirte
50 PlanesNTrains : Thanks for clarifying these points. It was an area of confusion regarding what options exist for DL. -Dave
51 MCI10 : She is scheduled to go to MCO around the second week in April, for Live TV install. Dont know the exact date.
52 Post contains links MostlyAir : Also an additional link to the Midwest announcement about the Delta Frequent Flyer relationship. http://www.midwestairlines.com/Midwe...a-Frequent-Fly
53 Post contains links and images AirframeAS : Ladies and Gentlemen.... without further ado.... I present you with aircraft N205FR! My manager and I serviced the aircraft upon arrival and removed t
54 MKENut : Nice pictures! Thanks for taking the time to post them.
55 sunking737 : Wow Don't you just like that new plane smell....OMG, better than a car. AirframeAS you are the man. Thanks for including galley pics.
56 Post contains links FRNT787 : http://www.marketwatch.com/story/rep...ts-2010-03-31?reflink=MW_news_stmp RAH made 2 additional executive appointments, including a former F9 executiv
57 beryllium : Well... Mesa/go! - they do not compete head-to-head with UA and US. go'! is a niche inter-island Hawaii operation, which does not affect UA or US. So
58 Post contains images AirframeAS : You're welcome! Thanks for the compliment! Keep in mind, guys, that I have my manager's permission to post these pics. That is what I wanted to smell
59 beryllium : JetBlue has JFK, and Lufthansa flies to JFK - that's the reason why there is a partnership between them. Lufthansa's Star Alliance partner - United -
60 Post contains links mariner : Yes. And I seriously doubt BB is intending a partnership similar to JetBlue and Lufthansa. But everything has to start somewhere. And if, in the end,
61 MKENut : BB said in the past that all their contract flying is iron clad.... Meaning if DL decides they want to cancel the contract with Republic before the e
62 MCI10 : Thanks for the pictures. Ozzie looks great! I was hoping she would clear customs in MCI first.
63 n7371f : Frontier put out a press release, with a picture, announcing the arrival on N205FR. Accuse me of reading too much into this...but if you were going to
64 Airport : Something is telling me that Republic might not only keep the F9 name, but may even keep the very basic F9 livery, with maybe just a small readjustmen
65 FRNT787 : And LH owns 25% of Jetblue, that makes this arrangement even more interesting IMO. The post was in reference to contract language. So it is the same
66 ERJ : Thanks for the pics! Thats one shiny new plane. Besides the LiveTV install, do you know what else it has to go through before revenue service? Just c
67 beryllium : I wonder how much. And even if it's a lot, DL would probably make a smart move by dropping the contract and ending this subsidy of the competitor, on
68 AirframeAS : You're welcome. From my experience doing the 203/204 induction, the only thing that is left is programming software and the placards, kits, etc etc.
69 n7371f : Some responses...first off to the poster you were replying to, there isn't a monetary amount available. What is known is Delta would have to assume o
70 FRNT787 : As n7371f pointed out, it is not as simple as paying up. If they simply pay up, they have to not only pay up a (I assume) substantial amount to RAH,
71 PlanesNTrains : Perhaps there are reasons why such a condition is not written into the contract. Perhaps Republic would not sign a contract with language that restri
72 Post contains links and images mariner : I keep going back to the beginning of it. Northwest - that is now Delta - put a big bunch of money into Midwest and they did it to crimp Airtran at M
73 Post contains links norcal : Here is an interview that Doug Parker gave addressing the RAH situation at US Airways. It sounds like the only restriction on RAH, according to Parke
74 dfanucci : I'll go even one better. Why would Republic in their miles update (Delta cancellation) even mention Frontier if that name was going away? Sure the up
75 kingcavalier : I noticed they still need to put the American flag on the rear of the a/c, and I believe the first 4 rows need the seat pitch increased for Stretch s
76 Post contains images MKENut : I have a feeling my dream of seeing Midwest Livery on a B737 or A320 will never happen. Oh well, that is the way the cookie crumbles.
77 HermansCVR580 : Does anybody know where the announcement will be made from? I think if you do it from MKE and say your dropping the Midwest name in favor of the Front
78 MCI10 : They are making the announcement from MKE and DEN at the same time on the 13th.
79 Post contains images mke717spotter : You're right, the fact that they're stopped repainting the Embraers (E190s/E145s) into YX colors while still rolling out F9 planes pretty much ends t
80 Antoniemey : DL is paying RAH to fly routes for them. So are AA, CO, UA, US... And none of them are pitching a fit (at least publicly) about RAH now owning two br
81 kingcavalier : But I think the point has been made several times now that YX is already gone, and the community has accepted that. It is a virtual airline. They wan
82 UAL747DEN : DEN, why not? There is plenty of feed into DEN and with the large O/D DEN has I could see DEN working well if done the right way. I don't understand
83 beryllium : Yes, I know they are all paying RAH to fly regional routes for them. But there is no shortage of regional airlines out there nowadays. And DL could e
84 mariner : I think Mr. Parker hits the nail on the head, from a legacy perspective, in a small throwaway: "We're rather it was them (Republic running Frontier)
85 beryllium : Could be. And that definitely makes sense. I am interested what UA/RAH contract says about that - is there anything that prohibits RAH "flying on tou
86 AirframeAS : I do not believe any of the branded ops are included in that contract, and they shouldn't be.
87 YXwatcherMkE : I must disagree with your comment above. I have been a fan of YX since the first day of their operation, I was able to fly on them on there second fl
88 FRNT787 : Finding someone with the spare capacity to replace the E175s immediately is not as easy as you are making it out to be. This also is not as big of a
89 Post contains images Atlwest1 : I can say that while some may infact stay with YX/F9 there are many who are not the infrequent flyer who are switching to FL. Now what i think you wi
90 Post contains images mariner : Even if there is, it won't apply to routes that were flown prior to the purchase. But since then, Frontier/Midwest has announced routes that are comm
91 Post contains links YXwatcherMkE : In MKE WN is not that big of a threat to F9/YX operations, in fact look at enilria new OAG tread... see link below... look at WN list you will see th
92 mke717spotter : Well its still called Midwest Airlines, they still use the slogan "The best care in the air", and they still serve cookies (usually) on their flights
93 kingcavalier : I'm sorry, but I just don't agree. A blue paint scheme does not fool me. It's not the same ole YX. The last time I was in MKE I saw several Frontier
94 F9Animal : Very nice pics! Also, your pics show nothing that would cause alarm! LOL! Nice job, and welcome home Ozzie! I stated a week or so ago that I have a s
95 UAL747DEN : There is also no problem with the United flying, all of the RAH flying is just fine...... Why do you want so badly for there to be a problem? I kind
96 norcal : It's not like RAH would stop flying on Monday and Compass would start on Tuesday. It would wind down gradually and orderly over a month or to. There
97 kingcavalier : Then some of my point was not made. I am totally on board with switching the YX name to a new name, and I don't think current YX passengers will flee
98 mariner : I thought the reason Republic is doing this is because there is the possibility that some contracts will not be renewed anyway - branded ops or no br
99 n7371f : So you think Delta can afford to dump 16 ERJ-175's and 2 ERJ-170's and just shuffle around a few other planes? Boy I'd love to see how you can replac
100 Post contains images FRNT787 : They are a top performer for US though. And if they come close to meeting that level with DL, then they are meeting their contract. DL either has to
101 Post contains images beryllium : I want it neither badly nor "goodly". I couldn't care less. I am just surprised that there is, as you say, no problem between UA and RAH, given that
102 n7371f : You're missing the point that the ERJ-175 plane is a key ingredient in Delta's plan. They run these planes on routes that can't be backfilled with CR
103 Post contains links mariner : One mo' time - it is a competitor that Delta helped to create. Up until June 23, 2009 Delta was the minority (40%) owner of Midwest. This did not giv
104 Post contains images AirframeAS : It may say "Midwest" on the side of the E190/70's, but it's still Republic's aircraft. It is worth repeating: Midwest is dead. The 121 certificate is
105 enilria : The DL situation isn't surprising to me and I predicted it a long time ago, but the bigger question is why doesn't UA follow suit and start separatin
106 enilria : BTW, you know another impact of the DL deal going away is that it *could* change the branding decision. Calling it an unknown name like Republic was
107 AirframeAS : I had a similar thought about this very subject a few days ago, but did not want to post it here, but here goes anyway.... I have a feeling that BB w
108 AirframeAS : Mariner stated that BB said to that it is "all or nothing" when it came to DL.
109 UAL747DEN : I guess we are in the same place on this! Your post just made me scream out loud "WTF"!!!!! You cant be serious! It would be a HUGE problem to lose t
110 FL787 : Just to make sure what we're talking about is factual, RAH is not flying E170s for DL anymore. Just the 16 E175s and 24 ERJs. Maybe you'd see an E170
111 LAXintl : Contractually there is no problem, and operationally Republic is a high performing CPA partner for United. As far as the mood outside the contract, i
112 mariner : I think Doug Parker gave a huge clue there. What applies to US applies more so to United. I see no downside in aiming high. I thought he said an alli
113 n7371f : According to Deltanet, Shuttle America is still running 2 E70's.
114 mke717spotter : Of course its not gonna fool you, me, or anybody else on these forums, but it will fool the average flyer and that's what its been doing.
115 Post contains links FL787 : And according to RAH, it's only the 16 E175s. And as I said, you won't find an E70 in DL schedules. http://www.republicairlines.com/investorrelations
116 FRNT787 : That is my thought. BB wants the same rights to apply to all passengers within the RAH branded network. Thus the DL arrangement needed to expand to a
117 Post contains images beryllium : I could never imagine that any company in any business would be helping to create a competitor for itself. Something just does not smell right here.
118 Post contains images mariner : They could have done any number of negative things with that 40%. It isn't just limited to that. Delta had the contractual power to inhibit the Front
119 Post contains images beryllium : You read too much into what I wrote. I know that "it is not all you did at UA" (and I never said that it was all you did), and I know that everyone i
120 mariner : Oh, I don't think so, I'm sure they can wait, forever even. I think you are completely missing the point. As in: mariner
121 beryllium : I guess I do. And the point is... ?
122 mariner : Why waste my time, I've posted it all before. Whatever I say, you attempt to deride or negate. Now you sneer at his ambition to create a better airli
123 beryllium : Not "whatever"... only selected things... I think, you are doing pretty much the same thing, though. I do not see a problem with that. And I don't kn
124 mariner : Ah - backtracking. You laughed. You sneered. LOL. I am Jesuit trained. I thrive on genuine adversity - intelligent adversity. It keeps my on my toes.
125 Post contains images beryllium : Republic Airways to purchase Delta; become world's largest airline In a surprise move, Indianapolis-based Republic Airlines today announced its intent
126 FRNT787 : DL did...as has been posted. It vary may well happen down the road, if and when the branded is profitable. LOL. Pot, Kettle, Black.
127 n7371f : Why don't you go and get a Delta employee password and log onto Deltanet and then go to their scheduling sections? Why so snappy? I've read Republic'
128 n7371f : I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned (but with thousands of posts it is possible to miss one) but wasn't Sean Menke's last day with Frontier yeste
129 beryllium : That's the viewpoint of that poster. Nothing more. I understand that his words are of undisputable authority to you (we have seen it here many times)
130 mariner : What explanation? You got two press releases with dates. They're the facts. mariner
131 Post contains images beryllium : Your post #103... Wasn't that the explanation? As for the press-releases... do you mean they explicitly said (or at least hinted on) that DL helped R
132 norcal : In all likely hood DL wouldn't have to "dump" the aircraft because another regional would jump at the opportunity to fly them for DL. A carrier like
133 mariner : The essential part of that post was the two dated press releases. Delta knew that Republic was buying Frontier before Delta agreed to Republic buying
134 Post contains images beryllium : Where is the big green check mark? (I am ready to put it here)
135 mariner : Yes, I said that. To my knowledge, no other regional has ever done what Republic is doing. IAir didn't. Xjet didn't. And no one is looking for favors
136 beryllium : Oh yeah, they read over there at DL... You gave links to 2 press-releases from June 2009 in your post. What could Delta possibly know about Republic
137 Post contains images AirframeAS : I don't remember you saying specifically that at all. That's not what you said. I disagree. If DL cancels and then UA cancels on RAH, the domino effe
138 mariner : Pretty much everything, as much as could be known. But I won't bother you with how companies have to operate, what they have to reveal - by law - whe
139 beryllium : Does it? I guess, I missed that in their annual report...
140 Post contains images mariner : I didn't say it. He said it. mariner
141 beryllium : Feel free to bother... I am always looking forward to the info - learning makes us all more intelligent. So, don't be shy - share the wisdom... if yo
142 FL787 : I could go on Deltanet right now if I wanted to but I don't know what I'd be looking for. I apologize if I came across as snappy as I was just sharin
143 FRNT787 : LOL. There are very few people I listen to who I blindly follow. I struggle to think of any. There are several people I tend to agree with. Mariner o
144 Post contains links and images AirframeAS : Yes you did. You said that BB "named SkyTeam." New Frontier/Midwest #7 (by mariner Mar 23 2010 in Civil Aviation) Post # 112. You only want to read w
145 mariner : Why? What's in it for me? I don't have a need to convince you of anything. It has all been posted here before and to try to deride or negate everythi
146 PlanesNTrains : Considering that you keep repeating the same thing about "Why Delta would continue paying..." and "How their lawyer missed...", yet time after time e
147 mariner : I'm sorry to have overlooked that, enilria, because I think there's a deal of truth in it - especially if the Midwest name goes away. Secondarily, of
148 norcal : True, but even what RAH is doing is highly risky and much less of a sure thing than FL absorbing YX which could have happened if YX went into chapter
149 Post contains links yeogeo : MKE reports another impressive increase in passenger numbers for Feb. “With a 34 percent increase in passengers, Mitchell soared past the national n
150 JA : According to the latest annual report, DL can exit their contract with S5 WITH OR WITHOUT CAUSE. With all of the various payments that DL would have t
151 norcal : Not a chance, $184 million is a ton of cash. Unless there is some other legal way out the only way this contract will end before the expiration date
152 mariner : That may matter most to you, and it is reasonably obvious and already known. But he is the first CEO - to my knowledge - to comment in an unguarded m
153 norcal : That isn't what I would define as "now" since it happened last year. DL clearly feels differently about RAH now, the cancellation of the codeshare ag
154 mariner : I assume they told him that from the git-go - that they would support anything he does with Midwest, but not with Frontier at DEN. That would explain
155 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : If so, then we've sure gone through the grinder in these threads, hashing out the branding question, why he doesn't do this, that, or whatever, and h
156 FRNT787 : That is often common with RAH. It is we, the posters here, who tend to complicate it.
157 mariner : If true, indeed. But Delta has pretty much said it - that the reason for the cancellation is change of ownership "and integration" of the two brands.
158 Post contains links mariner : In other news, Branson Air Express has added two more flights from BKG - to BNA and GPT: http://sbj.net/main.asp?SectionID=18&SubSectionID=23&
159 beryllium : I don't why... Maybe because of the same reason you sometimes feel the need to respond to some of my posts? I don't know what's in it for you, but yo
160 Post contains images AirframeAS : Have you ever played a game of poker?
161 Post contains images mariner : Face up? As opposed to face down. With regard to the choice of name. We know there will be one name - cards face up - but revealing which name too so
162 beryllium : Yes, I have played a game of poker many times... Let me clarify my question (I see that it was kind of difficult for some to comprehend what I was as
163 Post contains images beryllium : So, I guess, when BB says that his branded business will have a brand name, it means that he boldly plays "face up"...
164 mariner : It is so odd that you seem to remember some things I have said, but not others. For those of us who didn't know BB, the first clue we had to the way
165 beryllium : So, you are saying that his bid for Frontier was a "face up" game... I don't remember him mentioning that maintenance would be relocated to MKE, and
166 mariner : There you go, you see, you attempt to deride or negate everything I say - again. Most of those things were not necessary to the successful bid. Howev
167 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : Great way of putting it into simple terms. For someone who has literally lived in the Frontier/Midwest/Republic threads, I find it absolutely stunnin
168 Post contains links n7371f : The Denver Post is out with a web-only story regarding the internal communication today that Republic will, "reveal our 1 promise, 1 vision and 1 goal
169 knope2001 : For the first two months of 2010, here's the net passenger increase at MKE: +171,609 AirTran +105,870 Southwest (new service) +95,302 Midwest/Frontie
170 knope2001 : I have a feeling the other part of that post might generate more response, but I think it is not a coincidence that they used the numeral "1" instead
171 PlanesNTrains : Well, it's certainly one scenario that has been pondered. So far, we've heard Frontier, Midwest, Republic, "NewAir" (I know - not really an option) -
172 norcal : One Republic?
173 mariner : If nothing else, it has generated enormous amounts of - free - publicity. I might almost believe that it is orchestrated that way. But with oil at $8
174 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : You may be on to something. "One" or "1" has certainly been their theme leading up to this reveal. -Dave
175 beryllium : This is not an attempt "to deride or negate everything". You are saying that BB plays "face up". I am trying to figure out what exactly do you mean b
176 N911YX : NorCal, better than even you have nailed it. By branding "1 Republic" BB avoids the entanglement of the old Republic brand still owned by NW/DL; he a
177 PlanesNTrains : Well, to quote you earlier: LOL! -Dave
178 mariner : All the information is out there, available for you. You have listed certain decisions that you claim were unknown. i say there were known from aroun
179 MCI10 : Maybe the "1" has something to do with two airline teams coming together as one. Don't think it has anything to do with the name. Maybe the vision. S
180 knope2001 : That would make sense if they had followed the standard of spelling out "one". Using the numeral sticks out, hence the thought it wasn't an accident.
181 PlanesNTrains : Certainly, on the surface, that's what one would think. Below the surface, it might be as well. But then again... -Dave
182 PlanesNTrains : The branding is really turning into a reality show of sorts. I'm actually kind of excited to see what comes of it. -Dave
183 Post contains images MSNtriathlete : Knowing BB, more like "OneNationUnderGod."
184 beryllium : I have listed (a) maintenance going to MKE and (2) Lynx closure. You say they were known around the time of Republic's bid for Frontier and that one
185 Post contains images mariner : That's right. But that is an incomplete list. There was more that was known. Now - as in all card games it depends on how the opponent's hand. Lay-do
186 F9Mechanic : The big anouncement will be on the 13th of this mounth. Ian Aurther will be at Coors Field, with Bedford in Milwakee. I hope the F9 name will reaim, b
187 n7371f : Here's one more piece of reporting that provides more to chew on... This quote is from the Business Journal of Milwaukee (but actually the original re
188 Post contains images JA : Does someone at Republic not like you, mariner? It seems that Frontier was ok with your musings. The clashes over ideology were plentiful, but the per
189 Post contains links knope2001 : Definitely possible, but the Business Journal franchise does not have the best reputation for being careful and exacting with their facts. This appea
190 Post contains images mariner : "eccentric." LOL. It surely isn't the first time I have been called eccentric. I wear it with pride. Think different? Or - in BB's case - think simpl
191 JA : The airline industry (even more than my industry of ground transportation) loves beating their chest about the experience they have. It is why most a
192 mariner : If there is a common theme in all of BB's dealings, it is how to get the biggest bang for his buck. I saw it first at the auction. Many were so deter
193 Post contains images enilria : I think you are not far off, but I wonder if it will be by choice. He's pissed off all his airline customers. That'll never happen now. DL has veto r
194 Post contains links Jetmatt777 : I noticed something strange, Republic must have filed the schedules for the replacement service for Lynx. Normally the schedules are filed under the m
195 mariner : Depending on how you phrase it, I don't think there was an ultimatum. I think it was very much simpler than that - more logical than that. mariner
196 MCI10 : I will bet my pay check its between those two names.
197 Post contains images beryllium : Yep, that's airline business You (DL) pay me for the contract flying ---- I (RAH) will use that money to compete against you... You (NW, now DL) save
198 FRNT787 : I find it noteworthy that OO suddenly had some spare 50 seat lift (oddly enough that was based out of MKE). RAH did not. You are reading too much int
199 n7371f : N809ME, a MD-82, was just sold to some outfit called Double-O Aviation. It was one of (5) MD-80's still owned by Republic, after inheriting the Midwe
200 Post contains images beryllium : Oh, that was the reason why it is OO and not RAH?... Noteworthy indeed...
201 Jetmatt777 : I'll ask around out here and see what I can come up with. I talk to people from the company that is handling it all the time.
202 kingcavalier : You need to study how the whole relationship came about. OO flew those CR2's for YX. RAH did not need OO to operate a 50 seat RJ when they had their
203 beryllium : The fact that at the moment of announcement BB will be in MKE, hints on something. The head of the corporation is not in DEN - hence, most likely, it
204 kingcavalier : I guess I don't see it that way. You could say that BB being in MKE is because he can sugar coat some bads news for MKE? Really? How is anything cert
205 beryllium : Nohing is certain until it happens. You are saying that all posts here should always contain only what is known for sure and set in stone? My post is
206 kingcavalier : No need to be aggressive. You simply stated So, no, I don't have a problem with your "thoughts." I could care less really, but you said "certainty" a
207 n7371f : Bedford isn't liked in Denver right now...from what I hear. Being in MKE at the large hangar allows him to be in front of a more receptive group, in
208 beryllium : This is all true. But, the point is that it was not just because OO thought it made sense to form partnership with FL. It was also because FL thought
209 beryllium : Is he liked in MKE?... Didn't he have to publicly apologize for something like "Milwaukee is not the place where you wanna fly" or whatever he said a
210 Post contains links and images beryllium : Reading this fresh article from the Business Journal of Milwaukee, I come to the conclusion that the surviving name will be "Midwest Airlines": http:/
211 YXwatcherMkE : Just an FYI to all, today Friday 4-02-10, Being reported on WTMJ 620 AM radio that the news conferance on the 13th at MKE will say that the "Midwest"
212 JA : No, I think it's something. Ever been at war with a company? A strange thing happens with two well-run entities sometimes when they clash: they find
213 n7371f : So many thoughts...I'll just get mine in and say I will be beyond stunned if Midwest is selected over Frontier. Plenty of reasons why and no need to g
214 FRNT787 : Perhaps... FL has almost no risk. RAH would not (currently) be willing to do such an agreement. Skywest was. That is revisionist. You should probably
215 beryllium : I thought from the very beginning that they would not delay too much and name it all Frontier. This name is more well-known around the country and ab
216 Post contains links beryllium : Revisionist or not, here it is: “Milwaukee is not a destination market by price. I don’t care how cheap you make it, you don’t go there unless
217 MASTYC : I think Midwest survives it is not going to go down well in MKE. I think a lot of Milwaukeeans would rather see them put the name to rest at this poi
218 FRNT787 : Far enough to make a big difference in meaning though. He was discussing price stimulation. MKE has not proven itself as a price stimulated destinati
219 beryllium : The difference in meaning was important to those in MIlwaukee to whom he had to give an apology. That's the point... (We were talking about whether h
220 Post contains images AirframeAS : Really?? From the folks I have talked to today at work (a lot of people at F9 as a matter of fact), I have heard the exact opposite, nothing but enco
221 beryllium : Could be. I was just thinking that it would make more sense from the standpoint of ethics and politics, that the head of the company announces Fronti
222 beryllium : You simply showed your cultural side, yet another time. Nothing really to be proud of. That's all I have to say...
223 mariner : Yes. But taking the bang for the buck logic further (i) the Delta action and (ii) the present price of oil and (iii) who is where on the 13th (LOL),
224 UAL727NE : Thanks Mariner LOL!! You'r making the suspense even worse for me,and other's now!!
225 Post contains images mariner : You're welcome. LOL. I am told they were pleasant surprises. mariner
226 Post contains images AirframeAS : And there were pleasant surprises, indeed! This, alone, should be the giveaway.
227 UAL727NE : Ok....now an earlier poster said he heard on radio in MKE F9 is the name...Now your saying you already got the suprises? Your killing me too!!! I wou
228 UAL727NE : Oh and what time on the 13th is the announcment? I will be flying Lynx out of salt lake that day at 428pm I think is my flight, then midwest (F9) E190
229 PlanesNTrains : And you know this how? Why would RAH - owner of YX - want to provide lift for Airtran - their MKE rival? AirTran has spent the past few years fightin
230 knope2001 : Trust me, almost nobody in the MKE media, including the Business Journal, knows even 30% of what most participants here know about the details of thi
231 MKENut : What do you base this assumption on? The comments posted on stories about Midwest on JSOnline.com? 90% of the posters on JSOnline Midwest related sto
232 n7371f : Hey AirFrame...appreciate your insight...in that post you quoted, I was actually copying some posters comments from the Denver Post article on the an
233 beryllium : That's possible (in regards to the media not possessing much knowledge about the details). But they quoted Arthur, who said that it is gonna be eithe
234 AirframeAS : I am shocked that you don't even remember that. It was announced months before the actual move. You probably missed it because you were not posting o
235 mariner : I think that can be a bit of a trap. Since lay-off's started, there has been a dedicated group of people posting negative - brutally negative - comme
236 MostlyAir : I think the most obvious reason for BB announcing in MKE instead of DEN is most likely due to it's vicinity to IND. BB already flies enough, I think h
237 n7371f : I totally agree, Mariner. But I thought it was conducive here due to all the hype...The beauty of the internet - anyone can post anything and be anyo
238 PlanesNTrains : I would be extremely surprised if such a large decision was announced in MKE because BB is tired of flying. If so, he'd just announce in IND. I'm sho
239 mariner : You're quite right. And there is an emotional subtext here. A death sentence is usually delivered by the highest authority, and however much Milwauke
240 Post contains images boydatageek : For an announcement this big, I don't think the travel time was a factor. Either you want to be in the city with the biggest celebration or you want
241 Post contains images boydatageek : This choice is more of an indication that you are going in a different direction than the F9 positioning. Just folding YX into that brand isn't a lar
242 PlanesNTrains : Well certainly, as you know, anything is possible. Having said that, this post makes complete sense, particularly the part about DEN. It is exactly h
243 ERJ170 : If it were me, I would probably be the highest official where I would be praised, and have the video monitor where I was gonna be a target.. that way,
244 AirframeAS : That is a funny way to put it. I have never thought as the F9 brand as a sexy brand. Now I am shocked that you are shocked about me being shocked! LO
245 boydatageek : Interesting note on Delta / Midwest. The Frequent Flyer Program tie will be gone in June, but the code share flights are still on until at least Aug!
246 JA : There is this idea that business people like plain things. Ask Tiger Woods about that...or most of Wall Street.
247 beryllium : So, psychology and PR are among your strengths and you are saying that it is illogical to assume that BB heads to MKE to please Milwaukeans with the
248 beryllium : There is nothing to be shocked about. The maintenance and L3 thing was in the context of the "face up game" discussion. Bedford knew the relocation w
249 beryllium : The doctor can prescribe some shock therapy. Should I call for the ambulance for you (it looks like it's about time)?
250 mariner : That's right. Anyone can deliver good news. It is a test of leader how they deliver bad news. mariner
251 boydatageek : ... But you want the news cameras and PR to be in a friendly place. "six of one ... "
252 FRNT787 : Bedford said (before the auction) that most jobs would remain safe. That has remained true. As to L3, he discussed with employees in September that h
253 Post contains images boydatageek : No ... given the chance I'd rather ask for all the phone numbers he no longer is needing.
254 mariner : Not to compare an airline CEO with a Prime Minister running a war - LOL - but no one remembers the speech Winston Churchill made when WW2 was won. Mo
255 beryllium : Frontier livery is definitely cute and sexy. Midwest's is a pretty ordinary one. But, while the Frontier brand certainly caters mostly to the leisure
256 Post contains links mariner : So it is your considered opinion that BB is chicken. Oh well, why am I not surprised you think that. It;s that time again folks - over 250 posts. So
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