enilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6134 posts, RR: 13 Posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9250 times:
This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now.
How to read:
ABE-MDT 3>2 APR means a reduction in one roundtrip from 3 to 2 for April only
ABE-MDT 3.8>2.7 APR-JUN This is the raw format of the data which sometimes I'm too lazy to retype. It means that over a month they were averaging a little less than 4 trips per day and now it's a little less than 3 per day. So, basically they cancelled 8 flights per week or so. Airlines are doing A LOT of non-daily ops now, so these fractions are pervasive.
ABE-MDT 4>6 MAY- means an increase from 4 to 6 roundtrips starting in May and continuing
ABE-MDT 4>6 MAY-JUN, 5>6 JUL means the change is only for the stated period May to June and then a different change for July in the same route
Please take it easy on any typos, there was a lot to type...
AA
MIA-EZE 2>3 JUL-AUG
SJU-SDQ 6>7 JUN-
SJU-SYX 6>5 JUN-
enilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6134 posts, RR: 13 Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9279 times:
Before people get too excited, I have to admit the YX and F9 change are for April Fools Day. I thought it would be enjoyable to imagine people thinking the YX code had been eliminated in advance of the branding announcement.
enilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6134 posts, RR: 13 Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9182 times:
Quoting FlyIGuy (Reply 2): So all IAD will have left is DEN and MDW after thses cuts...Why such a drastic cut back ?
Just my 0.02
They called it a "boutique" product on their blog. I have said for years that WN has been very focused on hurting the other LCCs. If you look back, they added IAD when B6 and FL rushed in to fill the void from Independence Air's demise. IMHO, now that UA has retaken the hub and the LCCs never gained any traction, there is no reason for WN to be there any more. I expect they could even close it. If they get into DCA, they will definitely close it IMHO.
FlyIGuy From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9123 times:
Quoting enilria (Reply 3): They called it a "boutique" product on their blog. I have said for years that WN has been very focused on hurting the other LCCs. If you look back, they added IAD when B6 and FL rushed in to fill the void from Independence Air's demise. IMHO, now that UA has retaken the hub and the LCCs never gained any traction, there is no reason for WN to be there any more. I expect they could even close it. If they get into DCA, they will definitely close it IMHO.
Why cut flights if they go out full...I'm sure if they cut capcity and I expect B6 to cut capacity now that they will be entering the DCA market then it will end up being closed and I can see B6 cutting all flights with the exceptions of LGB and OAK or all since those are outside the perimeter rule.
Just my 0.02
The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15724 posts, RR: 47 Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9037 times:
enilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6134 posts, RR: 13 Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9041 times:
Quoting FlyIGuy (Reply 4): Why cut flights if they go out full...I'm sure if they cut capcity and I expect B6 to cut capacity now that they will be entering the DCA market then it will end up being closed and I can see B6 cutting all flights with the exceptions of LGB and OAK or all since those are outside the perimeter rule.
Just my 0.02
B6 peaked at 24 flights in IAD and now they are at 15. I think B6 could leave there completely if they take too many more lumps on IAD financial performance.
There are two ways to lose money. Empty plane and full plane of people paying nothing. The latter is probably the LCC's problem at IAD, but I haven't looked at the loads. Transcon has been unprofitable for a while and clearly B6 has sucked at JFK-IAD which will probably be a single flight before long. It's hard to imagine B6 flying BOS-IAD/DCA/BWI for very long. I'd think DCA would eventually replace IAD, but who knows.
RL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4537 posts, RR: 13 Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8962 times:
Quoting enilria (Reply 6): B6 flying BOS-IAD/DCA/BWI for very long. I'd think DCA would eventually replace IAD, but who knows.
I am of the oppinion that B6 would shift BWI to DCA... WN will lever Abandon that route and it would need to get really bad for FL to. B6 could let them fight it out and opt for the airport of choice, DCA.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
enilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6134 posts, RR: 13 Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8882 times:
Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 7): I am of the oppinion that B6 would shift BWI to DCA...
I definitely wouldn't expect that. FL is the weakest carrier in that market and B6 has the smallest aircraft and thus the best chance of filling the plane up for prices above ZERO. B6 is much stronger in BOS now than you are giving them credit. They have a formidable network there. For domestic I would argue they have the best portfolio of non-stop routes now at BOS. That's going to get them passenger loyalty. In BWI WN has that mantle. FL is neither fish nor foul in the market. They are a distant second in BWI and god knows what in BOS. The only advantage they have is history in the route, but that will continue to ebb as time goes on. History and tradition says FL will lose unless B6 decides to no longer focus on BOS which won't happen.
Also, DCA/IAD are much more overlapping than BWI/DCA. It's a hideous drive from NoVA and DC to BWI. People do it, but the train even sucks in that it doesn't go directly to the terminal in BWI. IAD-DCA is an easy 25 minute drive outside rush hour. BWI is an hour from DCA at the best of times and can take forever at rush hour. Also, they are building that subway line to IAD which will make it even more of a single market with DCA.
Atlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8780 times:
Quoting enilria (Reply 8): I definitely wouldn't expect that. FL is the weakest carrier in that market and B6 has the smallest aircraft and thus the best chance of filling the plane up for prices above ZERO. B6 is much stronger in BOS now than you are giving them credit. They have a formidable network there. For domestic I would argue they have the best portfolio of non-stop routes now at BOS. That's going to get them passenger loyalty. In BWI WN has that mantle. FL is neither fish nor foul in the market. They are a distant second in BWI and god knows what in BOS. The only advantage they have is history in the route, but that will continue to ebb as time goes on. History and tradition says FL will lose unless B6 decides to no longer focus on BOS which won't happen.
FL is very strong on the bos-bwi shuttle. It is always packed and is one of the top routes in the company. They have the right sized plane to fly it and have a loyal following on it. If anything it could stand one more flight in each direction just to have a tad more choice. FL might be a second in BWI but its not like southwest is 90percent and FL is 10 percent. If anything its growing there which means an uptick of use of FL. I doubt FL will lose when they have been doing this route before any of the two mentioned. They responded with dedicated check in counters, dedicated gates at BOS and BWI(yes it changes but not to often).
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
enilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6134 posts, RR: 13 Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8701 times:
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 5): CLTHNL is gone after this Fall as well...
That may appear in OAG next week.
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 5): I have another word for it. But I bet "the cargo is good"....
Probably, but WN does well on cargo everywhere. That's a secret to their profits that the other airlines haven't noticed.
Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 9): FL is very strong on the bos-bwi shuttle.
I sense you work for FL. I'm guessing you haven't seen the financial results since the war broke out. There's no way it's making money right now. Just looking at some random dates in May at fl.com its $78 roundtrip. That doesn't even cover fuel.
Packed x $78 roundtrip = much less than the cost to fly the plane.
It costs $160-180 roundtrip for them to breakeven. It's a disaster. My guess is that FL will cut frequency in the next 12 months and slowly get pushed out.
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8645 times:
Quoting enilria (Thread starter): DL
Already cutting back the LAX expansion they just announced.
No matter how hard DL ties at LAX, it seems as if they can't get a "foot in".....lets see what the JV with V.Australia brings...
DL is doing a bit better in the New York Area as well-but competition is heating up.
Atlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8630 times:
Quoting enilria (Reply 10): Packed x $78 roundtrip = much less than the cost to fly the plane.
It costs $160-180 roundtrip for them to breakeven. It's a disaster. My guess is that FL will cut frequency in the next 12 months and slowly get pushed out.
Remeber to though BOS-BWI isnt just Bos bwi it is also used by people to connect to other parts of the FL network. I mean it just seems like any route that FL is flying people think oh there done for and they will be pushed out perchance this wont be the case? Also keep in mind the costs for FL are lower then WN and much lower then JB so this probably gives them an advantage plus offering a bizclass where if you need to check bags its free. Not to mention FREE gate check of bags and the knowledge of being the first on the route.
Quoting enilria (Reply 10): I sense you work for FL. I'm guessing you haven't seen the financial results since the war broke out.
Well your senses are probably a little off
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
DariusBieber From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 128 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8465 times:
smoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1224 posts, RR: 12 Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8113 times:
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 5): CLTHNL is gone after this Fall as well...
Was that in the OAG? last I heard (earlier this week) was that in the fall (low/shoulder season) that it would run less than daily. But I wouldn't be surprised to see them use that aircraft for a better performing route out of CLT
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15724 posts, RR: 47 Reply 16, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8044 times:
Quoting enilria (Reply 10): Probably, but WN does well on cargo everywhere
I was being facetious, since that seems to be one of the top few a.net euphamisms for a route/hub that's doing poorly
DCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4402 posts, RR: 37 Reply 18, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 7934 times:
Glad to see DL's upping ROC a frequency to ATL in the summer. They've already scheduled the regular summer MSP nonstop, will be curious to see if the up seasonal DTW capacity as NW did in the past.
Quoting enilria (Reply 8): Also, DCA/IAD are much more overlapping than BWI/DCA. It's a hideous drive from NoVA and DC to BWI. People do it, but the train even sucks in that it doesn't go directly to the terminal in BWI. IAD-DCA is an easy 25 minute drive outside rush hour. BWI is an hour from DCA at the best of times and can take forever at rush hour. Also, they are building that subway line to IAD which will make it even more of a single market with DCA.
The drive from downtown DC on east from BWI is not "hideous;" in good traffic it's 40 minutes, a bit less than the drive to IAD. Why anyone would drive fom DCA to BWI I have no idea; both DCA and IAD are much more convenient to NoVa. Maybe if the fare was substantially less.
As our discussions have established in exhaustive detail, the Metro won't be a great option to IAD. There will be 19 stops between downtown and the airport. It'll be an hour at least, and the trains will be packed with people for the stops along the way--Tysons and Reston are big business centers of their own. Not fun for schlepping suitcases. It probably will be a one-seat ride, as we established in our last discussion, but there's no happy option for squeezing another line into downtown, and delays will probably be common.
It may be going down in frequency, but it's going to be all mainline with three B752s.
Quoting enilria (Reply 10): Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 5):
CLTHNL is gone after this Fall as well...
That may appear in OAG next week.
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 5):
I have another word for it. But I bet "the cargo is good"....
Probably, but WN does well on cargo everywhere. That's a secret to their profits that the other airlines haven't noticed.
Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 9):
FL is very strong on the bos-bwi shuttle.
I sense you work for FL. I'm guessing you haven't seen the financial results since the war broke out. There's no way it's making money right now. Just looking at some random dates in May at fl.com its $78 roundtrip. That doesn't even cover fuel.
Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 9):
It is always packed
Packed x $78 roundtrip = much less than the cost to fly the plane.
It costs $160-180 roundtrip for them to breakeven. It's a disaster. My guess is that FL will cut frequency in the next 12 months and slowly get pushed out.
3 of my co-workers just paid $338.00/person r/t on BOS-BWI-BOS. So there are instances where the fares are pretty high given the route length.
RL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4537 posts, RR: 13 Reply 21, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 7827 times:
Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 18): Glad to see DL's upping ROC a frequency to ATL in the summer.
Looks like its a result of a downgrade though... 5x CR9 1x MD88; DTW is all 50 seat RJs for now (5x)
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
262 pax/day each way between IND-LAX (according to the latest IND Year In Review) and the route can't support a daily nonstop. Though one can wonder how many pax on that route were/are also from the catchment areas of CVG, FWA, EVV, etc; and if DL is cutting it to save LAX-CVG. Still, there's most likely a lot of locals on the route given the size of the Indianapolis area.
But DL can't make it work. FL can't make it work. WN tried it in the past and couldn't make it work. What's wrong with this picture?
pgtravel From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 445 posts, RR: 3 Reply 23, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7568 times:
Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 22): But DL can't make it work. FL can't make it work. WN tried it in the past and couldn't make it work. What's wrong with this picture?
I think you're misreading this one. DL has had this as 4x weekly in the offseason, but now it's going up to 1 daily year-round.
BTW, one of the big issues in IND is the expensive terminal they just built.
WA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2042 posts, RR: 13 Reply 24, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7541 times:
Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 22): But DL can't make it work. FL can't make it work. WN tried it in the past and couldn't make it work. What's wrong with this picture?
Before deregulation, TWA flew L-1011s on this route....
Seaholm Maples are #1!
25 knope2001: Did no one comment on this yet? I, for, one thought it was hilarious, enilria!
26 Atlwest1: Well I guess its official now just saw this on Bizjournals. http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/stories/2010/03/29/daily59.html Welp guess by june the
27 enilria: I agree, but you give them credit for trying. As opposed to WN? B6's plane is 20% smaller they can do without a lot of those connects. That's only be
28 OzarkD9S: Well you got me on that one, and I had a bit of a chuckle...and I got excited for a millisecond so GOOD ONE.
29 deltal1011man: I believe the 5th flight was a mistake load. They never had a carrier to fly the 3rd CR9. They showed 2x OO CR9 but the flight always seemed like the
30 OA412: Indeed, I would be surprised if this wasn't planned prior to the announcement given how quickly they have been reduced post-announcement. I cannot be
31 enilria: Glad to make anyone laugh. Didn't they announce 5 in the release? Why so sad, were you hunting a Czech girlfriend? I don't think it is. They cut it i
32 OA412: What else could it be though? Cutting the flights after only one week of sales seems really odd.
33 DAL767400ER: Per the press release, CMH was announced as daily and both BDL and RDU as 6x weekly (Sunday-Friday). Those routes went from a combined 19 weekly to 2
34 enilria: Notice that they increased JFK as they cut ATL. That tells me it is a studied decision that JFK will perform better. I can only assume bookings aren'
35 DeltaRules: Blah. Here I was thinking we might get an A318 or A319 on CMH-MCI, and...screw you...
37 FlyPNS1: If you read in the media, the cuts to the LAX routes were pre-planned for when traffic slows. Traffic begins to slow in late August and then plunges
38 OA412: That's what I figured. Thanks for the info.
39 deltal1011man: agreed. it is. Just like last season. yes and no they showed LAX-SFO at 5x and SFO-LAX at 4x....that to me said something would change. Blah, The "cu
41 LipeGIG: Any reason in special to transfer these flights to ORD ?
42 yeogeo: http://www.aviation-weblog.com/50226711/deltas_new_routes.php "The addition of Chicago O'Hare to the Delta Shuttle from New York ... underscore Delta'
43 cokepopper: Maybe for you JFK isn't nearly to the point where it should/could be.
44 MaverickM11: Why? JFKPRG makes much more sense than ATLPRG, especially with OK out. I never thought both would be around for long simultaneously. Higher yield, pl
45 UN_B732: MSY-CLE 1>0 SEP I don't think Aeromexico ever served New orleans to Cleveland. Another april fools joke?!
46 papatango: per Delta schedules the CMH-LAX flight is daily Jun 10 thru Aug 16
Sponsor Message: 
From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6134 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 837 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
