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American And BA “exploring” Co-location At JFK  
User currently offlinespeedbird9 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 231 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 12628 times:

Seems BA and AA are "moving in together"

Doesn't BA own Terminal 7?

is so what will happen will they loose it? and will openskies move as well?

Thanks
Speedbird9


Is the customer always right? Michael O'Leary: no the customer is nearly always wrong
44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25436 posts, RR: 49
Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 12611 times:

Was announced part of the JetBlue agreement.
AA/B6 Interline Agreement Announced (by thirteenright Mar 30 2010 in Civil Aviation)



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3594 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 12351 times:

Do we have a source for this rumour ?

User currently offlinerjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 12337 times:

Quoting speedbird9 (Thread starter):
Seems BA and AA are "moving in together"

They announced that they are exploring their options to do so. As discussed on A.net quite a bit, T8 can be built out such that BA can have a whole wing of the terminal to themselves.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8374 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 12248 times:
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BA's terminal 7 lease for the land ends in 2015, even if they own the terminal the PANYNJ wants the land for some kind of terminal 6 & 7 mega-terminal.

What will more then likely to happen is BA will get " a terminal within a terminal" at AA T8 with their own checkin lobby, Concorde , First and Club lounges as well as their "own" gates. AA's terminal was slightly scaled down after 9/11 so there are plans for a building larger then what was finished. This is the only practical solution to an AA/BA alliance under one roof, especially since JFK will be the most important gateway for teh allaince. BA could maitain its own terminal but I don't see that as a viable option.


User currently offlineScrappy27 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2008, 281 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 11995 times:

Jeez I wonder what that'll be like!?!... I really like the layout and operating out of T7 in JFK..... We currently share the same AA terminal in MIA and it's absolutely horrible!? I'm hoping it's just because of the renovation work going on in our old terminal (i think it was A).... Which seemed really new anyway??? Anyone have any idea when BA will switch back in MIA?? thanks

User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8374 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 11705 times:
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Quoting Scrappy27 (Reply 5):
We currently share the same AA terminal in MIA and it's absolutely horrible!? I'm hoping it's just because of the renovation work going on in our old terminal (i think it was A)....

Miami is another planet, but your comparison is not apples to apples. BA moved to concourse A in Miami long before AA took it over( AA was in E-D-C back in 1995) when BA moved to A concourse. AA did eventually takeover A concourse but BA controlled ( or contracted to its own sub-contractors) its everything, checkin, Terraces lounge, and Evergreen was the handling for loading and offloading teh 744 flying to Miami. BA just flew out of of a gate in an AA contolled concourse.

I would imagine a similar arrangement in JFK since BA would want control of most things at its most important international destination. AA may handle the airplane since AA's unions may have to by contract but BA would control the passenger experience in at terminal within a termnal


User currently offlineB6A322 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 11656 times:

Ok, lets tie this all back to Delta and Jetblue!

1. BA and AA move in together
2. DL Moves most flights to T7
3. DL Moves remaining domestic flights to T6, T4 and LGA if needed
4. DL Knocks down T2, T3
5. DL Builds a "mega" T2-3
6. DL Moves back to the new "mega" terminal
7. PANYNJ Knocks down and builds new "mega" T6-7
8. LH Moves out of T1 (yes, I know its the *Alliance terminal) and into the "mega" T6-7
9. LH creates a USA hub.
10. LH acquires ownership of B6.


-Its a long shot, I know. But hey, it would be pretty cool



The content I post is solely my own opinion. It is not an official statement by/of/for nor representative of any company
User currently offlinespeedbird9 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 11585 times:

sorry guys forgot to add the source my bad. i thought i left something out

its ABTN

http://www.abtn.co.uk/news/3113951-a...exploring%E2%80%9D-co-location-jfk

sorry
speedbird9

p.s. thanks for the replies very interesting

[Edited 2010-04-01 14:19:08]


Is the customer always right? Michael O'Leary: no the customer is nearly always wrong
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32799 posts, RR: 71
Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 11465 times:

Quoting Scrappy27 (Reply 5):
.. We currently share the same AA terminal in MIA and it's absolutely horrible!?

No, BA and AA do not currently share the current terminal at MIA. AA is in D, BA is in F.

Quoting Scrappy27 (Reply 5):
Anyone have any idea when BA will switch back in MIA?? thanks

December 2010, along with a new Terrace and BA First Class lounge.



a.
User currently offlinespeedbird9 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 11433 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
new Terrace and BA First Class lounge

i thought all Terrace lounges were to become obsolete or is that just at intl airports were its not worth the cost?



Is the customer always right? Michael O'Leary: no the customer is nearly always wrong
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3594 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 11321 times:

Quoting speedbird9 (Reply 10):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
new Terrace and BA First Class lounge

i thought all Terrace lounges were to become obsolete or is that just at intl airports were its not worth the cost?

Its "Galleries" now


User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3356 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 11237 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
December 2010, along with a new Terrace and BA First Class lounge.

Have they pushed up the opening of the C FIS? I'm assuming they'll be relocating to their gates in the former Concourse A.


User currently offlineScrappy27 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2008, 281 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 11146 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):

good news about moving in December.. apologies for the confusion I thought it was the same Terminal as when we clear immigration..the AA flight attendants are always there too...My bad


User currently offlinedivemaster08 From Cayman Islands, joined Jul 2008, 337 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11011 times:

Quoting Scrappy27 (Reply 13):
good news about moving in December.. apologies for the confusion I thought it was the same Terminal as when we clear immigration..the AA flight attendants are always there too...My bad

That is because at the moment for all arrivals coming into MIA that use Concourse D-H have to use the Immigration and Customs facilities at E. There is another Immigration and Custom facility at the new South Terminal for the airlines that use that. The Others get stuck with the Massive pain of Immigration at E.

There use to be a Immigration at B/A which is what BA use to use and as they closed down A for the big renovation, that facility has been shut.

When the New North Terminal comes into action, there will be a new Immigration and Customs for it and it will probably have way too many desks and not enough staff as usual!



My dream, is to fly, over the rainbow, so high!
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3488 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10852 times:

"BA's terminal 7 lease for the land ends in 2015, even if they own the terminal the PANYNJ wants the land for some kind of terminal 6 & 7 mega-terminal. "

The PANYNJ doesn't want to built a mega terminal at that site. They want to finish off T8 so it doesn't look like the half finished eyesore it does now.

JetBlue is going to do something with the T6 site . . . the city has already given them $$ for T5 expansion. It was announced along with the headquarters announcement last week.

A vacant T7 is very easy to fill up . . . it's nice, small, has customs. This is a win-win for the PA. Move BA over to T8 and get that terminal finished, B6 will already be under way with the T6 site, let T7 be another common use int'l terminal like T1 and T4.


User currently offlineKingFriday013 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1300 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 10288 times:

Quoting B6A322 (Reply 7):

That is an amazing plan. It's actually sorta scary that something like that is even possible of taking place. Just imagine!

-J.



Tho' I've belted you an' flayed you, By the livin' Gawd that made you, You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!
User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9449 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 10226 times:

Here is your answer to where everyone from T4 will go when Delta takes it over. (also people will move to T1)


yep.
User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2091 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7753 times:

Still leaves the issue of how they will co-locate JFK flights at LHR!


Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4015 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7197 times:

Quoting B6A322 (Reply 7):
1. BA and AA move in together
2. DL Moves most flights to T7
3. DL Moves remaining domestic flights to T6, T4 and LGA if needed
4. DL Knocks down T2, T3
5. DL Builds a "mega" T2-3
6. DL Moves back to the new "mega" terminal
7. PANYNJ Knocks down and builds new "mega" T6-7
8. LH Moves out of T1 (yes, I know its the *Alliance terminal) and into the "mega" T6-7
9. LH creates a USA hub.
10. LH acquires ownership of B6.

The elapsed time to get to #10 of this theory is so long as to make its chances of happening tiny.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 15):
A vacant T7 is very easy to fill up . . . it's nice, small, has customs.

This is more plausible with T7 becoming "T4b" and letting DL use a considerable chunk of T4.

By the way, no matter what, JFK is a messy place. I simply cannot see DL tearing down the current space and still operating similar frequencies. If DL passengers are subject to a piece-meal destruction/construction of T2/T3 while DL still tries to operate from them, their traffic will be gone before the dust settles. This seems to be a very hard problem, but I would guess AA will be a pretty different enterprise at JFK five years down the road. DL's terminal problem may just solve itself.



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User currently offlineB6A322 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6846 times:

Quoting incitatus (Reply 19):
The elapsed time to get to #10 of this theory is so long as to make its chances of happening tiny.

Hence, I stated

Quoting B6A322 (Reply 7):
-Its a long shot,

:D

But other than the elapsed time factor....



The content I post is solely my own opinion. It is not an official statement by/of/for nor representative of any company
User currently onlinetimpdx From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 559 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6667 times:

If a renovation could help, god it would be nice if the UK/US & BA/AA integrated customs pre-clearance into any new facility.

User currently offlinepeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1438 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6594 times:

Quoting incitatus (Reply 19):
If DL passengers are subject to a piece-meal destruction/construction of T2/T3 while DL still tries to operate from them, their traffic will be gone before the dust settles. This seems to be a very hard problem, but I would guess AA will be a pretty different enterprise at JFK five years down the road. DL's terminal problem may just solve itself.

Nah. DL is very determined in NYC (LGA/JFK). Despite obstacles in their way, they'll fight on.
DL will also be a very different enterprise at JFK in 5 years. The world does not revolve around any one airline, particularly AA.

[Edited 2010-04-02 19:22:58]


Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4015 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6518 times:

Quoting peanuts (Reply 22):
DL will also be a very different enterprise at JFK in 5 years.

How so?



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User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4020 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6327 times:
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If BA were to move now, how many gates would they require in T8? 4-5? Would IB also move into T-8 and LH over to T-7?

25 peanuts : Probably something similar to how you are "guessing" AA will be a different enterprise at JFK five years down the road. Why would DL be any different
26 TymnBalewne : I think the BA handled airlines would stay in T7 until the lease expires. Airline handling is very profitable to BA.
27 Delta763 : They're not going to invest in fixing their operation at JFK just to lose it. Whatever the plan turns out to be, it will ensure that DL's future at J
28 BA174 : Gone over this before. BA do not have the staffing levels to straddle two terminals with many flights leaving at the same time (different story in T7
29 ckfred : Off the topic, but if AA were to take over the rest of Concourse L at ORD, couldn't BA then shift its departures to T3? Right now, L is a ghost town.
30 rjpieces : Not really. Most airlines in JFK operate from very nice terminals. All, in fact, except Delta.
31 TymnBalewne : a) 3rd party handling is very profitable b) from a staffing point of view, BA staff who handle other airlines for the most part only handle other air
32 FlyCaledonian : It might be profitable but BA isn't primarily a ground handling company last time I looked! They have their own facility at T7 and they can do third
33 BA174 : Exactley at MAN BA handled SN, EI, AF,KL and quite a few more but that never stopped them contracting the regional ground handling out to Aviance and
34 laca773 : There's not enough gate space in T8 right now for BA to operate their services now?
35 TymnBalewne : BA will keep the terminal until 2015 when the lease is up. BA won't wait until 2015 to move to T8. You'd be VERY surprised at the mark-up the 3rd par
36 incitatus : Probably, I agree. I just do not know how - given the constraints to demolish and build and at the same time keep the schedule. And we have yet to se
37 rjpieces : But if BA moves to T8, presumably Iberia, Cathay, etc will all move along with it. What happens to United and US Airways depends on the Port's plans
38 jfk777 : This is JFK all terminals( except JB's T5 & T6 and DL T2, DL T3 has an FIS) have FIS capability. JFK's core business is International flights, mo
39 TymnBalewne : Certainly post-lease expiry on T7 these airlines will have to move somewhere. But if BA and AA co-locate the LON flights under one roof before then,
40 jfk777 : IF BA moves to Terminal 8 it would bring Cathay, Iberia and other OW airlines with it. AA does handle Finnair at its own terminal and JET Airways of
41 FlyCaledonian : I think it's more Terminal space - BA would want its own facilities (Concorde, First, Galleries and Arrivals lounges; check-in, etc). Even though LHR
42 laca773 : With JFK-LHR being BA's premier route, I don't see BA handing over their customer service arm to AA at this station at all. I also think there might
43 TymnBalewne : You really can't compare MAN with JFK. As I mentioned previously, the shift schedules for BA are primarily that, if you're scheduled to work, say, IB
44 jfk777 : AA's militant unions probably ome kind if deal where any airline using AA's terminal 8 has to be handled by them, BA handling its own passenger check
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