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US Airways Suspending CLT-HNL  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32599 posts, RR: 72
Posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 18327 times:

Last flight is 6 September 2010. No idea if it will resume again, but its not showing up any date past that. Still in timetables and GDS, but zero'd out.


a.
100 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinen7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1688 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 17860 times:
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I don't think anyone is surprised by this at all...Loads in the back were hit or miss according to US Airways folks who post on another board. And the operational challenges of getting the 767-200 nonstop to HNL are littered throughout posts here.

A few airline insiders posted their belief that this route was more a case of US having nowhere to put this plane and CLT-HNL was the best option. Too bad I say, if I was a US frequent flier, I'd much rather fly to Hawaii either in first or coach aboard a 767-200 than connect in PHX and fly on a much more cramped 757-200.


User currently offlinecontrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1832 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 17669 times:

Quoting n7371f (Reply 1):
I don't think anyone is surprised by this at all.

I'm surprised they haven't already suspended it.

Quoting n7371f (Reply 1):
if I was a US frequent flier, I'd much rather fly to Hawaii either in first or coach aboard a 767-200 than connect in PHX and fly on a much more cramped 757-200.

Agreed. I wish it had worked.



Flying Colors Forever!
User currently offlineewrkid From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 17520 times:

Why don't they

Quoting n7371f (Reply 1):
A few airline insiders posted their belief that this route was more a case of US having nowhere to put this plane and CLT-HNL was the best option.

If that might have been the case why not start a another European route out of CLT or even PHL.....?


User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1293 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 17346 times:

Quoting n7371f (Reply 1):
A few airline insiders posted their belief that this route was more a case of US having nowhere to put this plane and CLT-HNL was the best option.

Look for CLT-EZE to be an option for the winter OR placed on a Caribbean route until CLT-MAD would start next spring


User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7493 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 17174 times:

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 4):
Look for CLT-EZE to be an option for the winter OR placed on a Caribbean route until CLT-MAD would start next spring

Theres no way CLT-EZE would work beyond the highest season of the year. Im not sure CLT-MAD would do stellar either.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22715 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 16968 times:

Quoting n7371f (Reply 1):
A few airline insiders posted their belief that this route was more a case of US having nowhere to put this plane and CLT-HNL was the best option.

Why was parking the airplane not an option?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1293 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 16877 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 6):
Why was parking the airplane not an option?

Minimum fleet counts, and US still sees the inexpensive 767s as a decent wide body airplane for at least a few more years


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22715 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 16870 times:

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 7):
Minimum fleet counts

If they sit on the ramp at CLT for 12 or 16 hours, that doesn't affect minimum fleet counts.

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 7):
US still sees the inexpensive 767s as a decent wide body airplane for at least a few more years

Sure, but if it's losing money on CLT-HNL, why fly it? The 762 is a great airplane for some routes, but CLT-HNL is apparently not one of them.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinethegman From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 652 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 16619 times:

Quoting n7371f (Reply 1):
A few airline insiders posted their belief that this route was more a case of US having nowhere to put this plane and CLT-HNL was the best option. Too bad I say, if I was a US frequent flier, I'd much rather fly to Hawaii either in first or coach aboard a 767-200 than connect in PHX and fly on a much more cramped 757-200.

I agree completely, having done both. But only the 757 HNL-PHX once, and the CLT-HNL RT twice.


User currently offlineVikingA346 From Sweden, joined Oct 2006, 515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 16610 times:

I think a lot of us here a ANET saw this coming. We saw in the first few weeks of the flights operation that it had trouble doing the route nonstop, with it going something like 1/7 in its first 8 flights. Although it did do better as time went on, in the end they just couldn't find the load factor they were lookin' for. CO's EWR-HNL was a direct competitor and a lot of pax preferred stopping in SFO/LAX/PHX to switch rather than sit on a US 762 for 10 hours.

Can't say we didn't see this one coming...... Hopefully they can find a route that better the 762.



...you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you shall return
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11416 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 16583 times:
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Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Last flight is 6 September 2010. No idea if it will resume again, but its not showing up any date past that. Still in timetables and GDS, but zero'd out.

Looking to the comments how it performs and the problems to reach to reach HNL, i believe as you mentioned, it took longer to get into this final decision.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1903 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 16348 times:

Let's wait till this flight sees its first summer before we write it off for the future. It really hasn't had a fair shake yet, and I hope US sees it that way too. Making it seasonal might work as well.

User currently offlinethegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 16175 times:

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 4):

Look for CLT-EZE to be an option for the winter OR placed on a Caribbean route until CLT-MAD would start next spring

None of those routes will work, CLT is well served for a city it's size to Europe...



Our Returning Champion
User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1293 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 15972 times:

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 13):
None of those routes will work, CLT is well served for a city it's size to Europe...

CLT-EZE would require a large amount of marketing but could work. I KNOW CLT-MAD will work and most likely will happen as it has been rumored in CLT before.


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 15971 times:

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 4):
Look for CLT-EZE to be an option for the winter OR placed on a Caribbean route until CLT-MAD would start next spring

Are there frequencies to Argentina even available? And if so, they would need two 762s to operate it successfully. I can't see there being sustainable traffic in this market. They might as well lose less money and keep it flying to Hawaii.


User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5231 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 15898 times:

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 14):
CLT-EZE would require a large amount of marketing but could work.

I don't see how. Is there any sort of appreciable demand between CLT and Argentina. Yes I know that connections can fill the aircraft, but at what yield. I really think that US needs to make CLT-GIG work before they go out trying other South American routes from CLT.

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 14):
I KNOW CLT-MAD will work and most likely will happen as it has been rumored in CLT before.

How do you know? Remember that MAD is really only flown from cities with good O/D demand (i.e. JFK, MIA) or fortress hubs with decent populations (i.e. ATL). I don't know that CLT qualifies as either one. Honestly, IF CLT-MAD is ever started, I expect it to be summer seasonal only, but I still don't think that it's something that will be a slam dunk.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineUS330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3866 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 15872 times:

.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 12):
Let's wait till this flight sees its first summer before we write it off for the future.

Summer is low season for hawaii. If the flight didn't work during the winter, there's no way that its going to work in the summer.


User currently offlineEnviroTO From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 15850 times:

If US had timed the flight to connect on NZ in HNL to AUK, and on HA to the South Pacific and worked on a code share deal maybe they could have made it work. CP had a great thing going with QF and FJ.

User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5231 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 15848 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 15):
Are there frequencies to Argentina even available?

There are plenty of US-Argenitna frequencies waiting to be had.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22715 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 15725 times:

Quoting OA412 (Reply 16):
How do you know? Remember that MAD is really only flown from cities with good O/D demand (i.e. JFK, MIA) or fortress hubs with decent populations (i.e. ATL).

...and even IAD - which could go on either of your lists - has had trouble keeping MAD service.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineCV880 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1124 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 15700 times:

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 12):
Let's wait till this flight sees its first summer before we write it off for the future. It really hasn't had a fair shake yet, and I hope US sees it that way too. Making it seasonal might work as well.

Nothing wrong with being seasonal....run it during the high season and holidays like DL has been doing on some Hawaii routes. The busy summer season is just approaching and fares aren't going down.


User currently offlineCV880 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1124 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 15665 times:

Quoting US330 (Reply 17):
Summer is low season for hawaii.

Obviously You don't travel there much and the fares are sky high during the summer. Try May, Sept, Nov. & Jan for low season.

[Edited 2010-04-01 16:58:28]

User currently offlinethegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 15644 times:

CLT is just no a huge O&D destination for Eurpoe and only trunk routes will work...not secondary destinations...

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 14):
CLT-EZE would require a large amount of marketing but could work. I KNOW CLT-MAD will work and most likely will happen as it has been rumored in CLT before.

negative and negative...Smoot, no amount of marketing will make CLT-EZE work first and for most their has to be some O&D..which is nil...
For CLT to get FCO service surprised me and there's no way it can work year round..just in the summer
CLT-MAD O&D again, is non existent and first and foremost that's what you need...



Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5231 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 15608 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 20):
...and even IAD - which could go on either of your lists - has had trouble keeping MAD service.

Indeed, and it is a much larger (and, frankly, more important) market than is CLT.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
25 wn676 : Maybe PHL-MXP could be reinstated.
26 Adam T. : Just a thought but could they have used the 762 on either CLT or PHL to PHX and then use the 762 for the PHX-HNL leg? I haven't kept up lately on how
27 jmc1975 : CLT-EZE would be a much better market than CLT-GIG, but not as good as CLT-GRU. Also, CLT-EZE would be beyond the range of the US 762s.
28 smoot4208 : Many routes out of CLT you have given no credit to. GIG is not doing bad at all and if that can work, so can EZE. I will just dismiss anything you sa
29 OA412 : Based on what? That's no way to have a discussion. You're basically saying that you don't like what he has to say about the prospects of CLT-MAD ther
30 MAH4546 : Certainly not on loads and the fares US Airways is charging. I'm certain the only reason that US Airways continues with CLT-GIG is because of the nee
31 jetsetter629 : What about a CLT - BRU for connections on to Europe and the profitable routes to Africa on SN. I thought PHL - BRU was going to stay seasonal, but no
32 MAH4546 : AA had a very strong partnership with SN, and it never operated MIA-BRU, BOS-BRU nor DFW-BRU during that partnership, which kind of gives an answer t
33 smoot4208 : It's not that I don't want to listen to an opinion, but when both the city and the airline have stated it, especially the city stating that it is on
34 Qantas777 : move the 762 on a clt-phx-hnl-phx-clt rotation, or just phx-hnl hawaii works in the summer, just kinda crappy in the apr/mayaug-sept time frame.
35 JayBird : There are various peaks and valleys for Hawaii. Mid-December to about January 7 is a peak, plus late January until mid-April, mid-June to the last we
36 USAirALB : At USAirways.com it shows it resuming in the Winter, however it maybe a glitch
37 MAH4546 : It is still in reservation systems, but you can't book it.
38 LipeGIG : CLT-EZE requires two planes. I always ask why a better served city is much better than a bad served. I would say EZE is a much more competitive marke
39 jmc1975 : So does CLT-GIG EZE is roughly twice the size as that of GIG from a consumer buying power perspective. True, there is more competition, but EZE has m
40 USAirALB : https://shopping.usairways.com/Flights/Passenger.aspx Departing Feb 28 and returning March 1st you can
41 Lufthansa411 : Except for some people speculating, we have no idea what the actual financial performance of this route actually is. The route may be make a profit,
42 MAH4546 : Let's try a date within the standard 331 day window. The flight is suspended - and it is zero'd out.
43 Cubsrule : ...except that US is adding widebody capacity. So they either bungled the route planning and didn't put the plane in the best place (possible, I gues
44 USAirALB : Personally, I think it will be back.
45 LipeGIG : True, but we are discussing what could be the use of 1 now being used on CLT-HNL. CLT-GIG already have two planes in use. You don't know about GIG fo
46 FutureUScapt : I'd say doubtful. Although I thought it could work in the high season, I was very surprised to see it announced as year-round from the get go. Though
47 MSPNWA : This route has not seen the high season. That's coming up starting around June and ending just before the route is scheduled to be suspended. This ro
48 mjzair : What I don't understand is everyone saying premium this and premium that, but not in a 762. Why do you assume that the general public looks at this fr
49 LipeGIG : Correct, US take advantage of their hub and offer access to many places, not only S. Florida Thanks for the remark/information. Agree, and LIM would
50 B752OS : Do you think US could establish a solid South American hub via CLT? (high loads, good yields) I am talking flights to GIG, GRU, SCL, CCS, BOG, LIM an
51 USAirALB : The route did OK. April Break it is sold out, as it was for Winter Break and Christmas. I could see it coming back on a seasonal basis.
52 mjzair : Doesn't TAM also fly to MCO?
53 thegreatRDU : Smoot, Are you getting this? I said MAD and FCO can only work during the summer....they'll have no problem filling it with a bunch of tourists and hi
54 USAirALB : I think that CLT could handle flights to BOG, LIM, CCS, and GRU. Nothing more. CCS and BOG could be used with Airbus 319/320 aircraft and LIM could u
55 Brandonfsu05 : This shouldn't come as a surprise...the route was okay.....but.... When CLT-HNL was announced US Airways CEO talked about the downturn the recession h
56 USAirALB : I don't think they are dropping it, but suspending it for the summer.
57 Brandonfsu05 : I think they should suspend the route come June...and add second daily service on CLT-FRA...until August or September
58 LipeGIG : Yes, but from Sao Paulo only. We had the same discussion on another thread and we show to you that a US$ 1,000 R/T fare isn't bad at all. They need e
59 SlcDeltaRUmd11 : not too surprising Wouldn't US have lost less money flying this extra 767 on a route with high seat demand such as PHL-SJU, PHL-LAX, PHL-MCO, PHL-PHX
60 USAirALB : Is there really enough demand?
61 Brandonfsu05 : If they end up getting service to Sao Paulo, everyone suspects GIG will be suspended or they will do 2x GIG and 5x GRU or something like that. Like I
62 Brandonfsu05 : I think so...LGW and FRA are always full...and those are A333S... like pax counts of 280 etc...this year was the first time though they were lighter
63 Flighty : As is true for Brazil, MAD and FCO will depend on the overall USA-Spain/Italy market fares. If the market is selling $750 o/w fares left and right, t
64 Post contains images CV880 : O&D only accounts for a small percentage of the hub traffic if we are comparing CLT to ATL (as that's basically where the similarities exist). I
65 Cubsrule : There is no need for additional nonstop capacity from the United States to Chile or Uruguay - good product or not. CLT-GRU can probably work, and EZE
66 USAirALB : This winter CLT-FCO will be operating on Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday with an A332. CLT-CDG will be Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, and Sunday with a
67 Brandonfsu05 : phew that sounds much better...i thought that us airways was going crazy because when they announced rome they said daily year round non-stop service
68 USAirALB : PHL-CUN?
69 LipeGIG : We disagree on that as i believe MVD is still underserved from the United States, non-stop. AA and UA will not develop non-stops from there (AA in fa
70 thegreatRDU : What the hell are you talking about... first of all who said anything about RDU There are so many things wrong with US CLT-Extensive SA network I did
71 MAH4546 : Montevideo has year-round non-stop service to Miami and more than three-fourths of the traffic terminates in Miami, and the rest pretty much goes all
72 will777 : From what I know, US is adding a second daily PHL-FRA flight this summer. Would another CLT-FRA flight really be needed? Only my second post, so plea
73 usairways85 : [quote = smoot4208, resposta = 4] Procure CLT-EZE a ser uma op US has been operating 2x daily on PHL-FRA during the past 4 or so summers. I think just
74 will777 : Thanks for the information, I had no idea! This obviously there is more capacity during the summer, so I can definitely understand a second CLT fligh
75 USAirALB : Dont they do it year round?
76 chepos : The seond daily PHL to FRA operates every summer, yes even this summer. Last summer it was a 333, before that the 762 was used. This summer it will op
77 Cubsrule : AA has the aircraft. Why doesn't AA fly it if the demand is there?
78 will777 : Actually, it seems that both PHL-FRA flights will be operated with an A330-300 (along with an LH A340-300) US Flight 700/701 PHL 16:15 FRA 6:10 FRA 1
79 747fan : The fact that much of the demand to Hawaii is from the western half hasn't helped this flight. If you don't include routings via points further west (
80 as739x : So US suspend's it's CLT-HNL Can someone post the e-trade baby commercial " Let me show you my surprised face!" If you all remember that one.
81 LipeGIG : In my view, MVD helps EZE during off-season. AA knows another airline will not fly it non-stop daily and use the way to produce the best yields for A
82 apodino : Can someone please show me an official press release to back up the original posters claim? While its not hard to believe, I am not buying it without
83 as739x : Not seeing a press release, I can tell you in the Apollo system the flight does not show after Sept. 7th.
84 apodino : Even so, there would be a press release or something if this was going away, as this is just too big a route to go away quietly. And this is just bei
85 BigGSFO : [ Not always. It didn't last for very long and US isn't leaving Hawaii.
86 as739x : I would like to think I can jump to any conclusion I'd like, ok? With September on 6 months away, I don't know any airline who would not have it in t
87 Flighty : Or even longer, for a place like Hawaii. So they are certainly cutting it for September. That's not to say it won't be back in December.
88 Brandonfsu05 : its not so much the loads are awful...it's just maybe daily service isn't warranted except during specific times...one day the plane has 50 the next
89 smoot4208 : Can someone please show me an official press release to back up the original posters claim? While its not hard to believe, I am not buying it without
90 LAXintl : Press release? What are you guys nuts. Airlines don't put press releases out about discontinued or what is basically bad news. Flights just simply qui
91 as739x : The best you guy's are going to get is if a USairways employee's post a letter from their internal sources. Many airline will put something on a comp
92 MAH4546 : Like this...
93 as739x : Exactly....................................................................!
94 Cubsrule : Why does a city operated 28 times a week in the low season (not to mention an additional 7 weekly flights by partner 4M) need help? And if MVD is suc
95 MAH4546 : The only way it helps is by saving on parking fees. The loads are actually quite light. There is not really a market for daily MIA-MVD flights. Again
96 wn676 : It seems that the flight numbers 807 and 808 will be retained for the second daily PHX-HNL-PHX which will begin operating on September 9th (one of the
97 USAirALB : I know the economy and stuff..but they never even gave this route a chance.
98 thegman : That leads me to believe that it will continue to be a 762. Or at minimum an East 752.
99 fascm170 : That's the analysts in HQ at their best. Same as fate as BHM, ARN, MXP, SAL. PTY, GUA, LRM, KIN, GGT, the list goes on and on...... Some routes requi
100 MAH4546 : It will be an East 752.
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