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SWA Responds To WestJets Codeshare Comments  
User currently offlineSteveSWA737 From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 154 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 9767 times:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Southw...nds-prnews-975601672.html?x=0&.v=1

and the plot thickens...

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6999 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 9673 times:

That's an amazing release. They are just setting up for a tremendous bashing of the DL-WestJet slot deal. Hold on tight.

User currently offlineyegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1723 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9533 times:

Heck....I can't get why Southwest doesn't fly into Canada?????

They have the brand name recognition across the border, and frankly they don't need WestJet at all. There are many undeserved airports that could be a good start for WN. All they need is to ask and most Canadian airports would welcome them with open arms.

Think of how much opportunity exists if they fly out of Hamilton ( a market with over 1 million (that either end up flying out of <acronym title=" toronto="" lester="" b="" pearson="" international="" cyyz="" canada="">YYZ or crossing the border into BUF).

I remember how WN mentioned last year that they are not in a hurry to get the codesharing agreement with WJ done as fast as they should due to the bad economy and other competing priorities...whatever that means!!!

At any rate, if and when WN decides they would like to serve Canada, they can do it alone.

[Edited 2010-04-01 15:01:21]

[Edited 2010-04-01 15:02:04]

[Edited 2010-04-01 15:02:26]

[Edited 2010-04-01 15:03:28]

User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4643 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9525 times:

I have heard from multiple people that Westjet was ready and held up their end of the bargain, and southwest was the one delaying.

Its nice to see someone able to stand up to WN, granted Westjet has a international border as their sheild against WN for the tiem being... US airlines aren't so lucky



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineSteveSWA737 From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 154 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9451 times:

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 3):
I have heard from multiple people that Westjet was ready and held up their end of the bargain, and southwest was the one delaying.


Well, according to the article :"The Southwest/WestJet project was on target in accordance with a mutually agreed upon timetable," said Bob Jordan, Southwest's Executive Vice President of Strategy and Planning. "However, WestJet in recent weeks requested material and significant changes to our agreement that we could not accept."

It seems to be a matter of "he said, she said".

[Edited 2010-04-01 15:06:52]

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22681 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9329 times:

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 2):
At any rate, if and WN decides they would like to serve Canada, they can do it alone.

...and, indeed, that would be the "most efficient means possible," which they claim to want.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinetharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1854 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9321 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 1):
That's an amazing release. They are just setting up for a tremendous bashing of the DL-WestJet slot deal. Hold on tight.

I don't understand why Westjet talked about codesharing with DL before that slot deal was finished. Wouldn't that take them out of the running for the slots?

If this was discussed in a previous thread, could somebody give a link to the discussion?


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24658 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9269 times:

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 2):
Think of how much opportunity exists if they fly out of Hamilton

WestJet originally tried to make YHM their major hub for the Toronto region but it didn't work. They were forced to move many flights to YYZ to have any chance of competing with AC. WS still has some flights to/from YHM but YYZ is their primary destination in that area.


User currently offlineyegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1723 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9253 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 7):
WestJet originally tried to make YHM their major hub for the Toronto region but it didn't work. They were forced to move many flights to YYZ to have any chance of competing with AC. WS still has some flights to/from YHM but YYZ is their primary destination in that area.

I'm not talking about WJ, but rather WN (Southwest). WN can take advantage of an under-served market. quick turnaround at YHM and no YYZ like landing fees!!!


User currently offline727200er From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 9077 times:

Hey Southwest come on up to YXX, we'll fill your planes.


"they who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only at night" - Edgar Allen Poe
User currently offlinetharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1854 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 9058 times:

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 8):

I'm not talking about WJ, but rather WN (Southwest). WN can take advantage of an under-served market. quick turnaround at YHM and no YYZ like landing fees!!!

But why do you think WN would be successful where Westjet wasn't?

Because WN would only be flying to the US, as opposed to both domestic within Canada, and to the US?


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24658 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 9032 times:

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 8):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 7):
WestJet originally tried to make YHM their major hub for the Toronto region but it didn't work. They were forced to move many flights to YYZ to have any chance of competing with AC. WS still has some flights to/from YHM but YYZ is their primary destination in that area.

I'm not talking about WJ, but rather WN (Southwest). WN can take advantage of an under-served market. quick turnaround at YHM and no YYZ like landing fees!!!

I know you were talking about WN. I was just pointing out that WS tried to do what you are suggesting WN should do and it didn't work. Without YYZ service, it's hard to generate enough traffic at high enough yields in that region of Canada. WN is of course welcome to try.


User currently offlinebriboy From Canada, joined Jul 2001, 366 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8762 times:

YHM does not have US Pre-clearance, so is not very useful for trans-border flying. That and:

* it is not convenient to Toronto by road
* if you are close to YHM, why not just drive to BUF?



next up: YYC, SFO, SYD, AKL, WLG, CMB, BKK, SIN, FRA, VCE, JFK
User currently offlinethehangarcat From Canada, joined Apr 2002, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 8630 times:

Quoting briboy (Reply 12):
* it is not convenient to Toronto by road

Except for the giant 4 lane highway connecting YHM to Toronto called the 403.

WS flies to MCO from YHM, do they pre clear in YHM? It's been a while since I've been there.



If it Ain't Boeing, I ain't Going!
User currently offlineyegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1723 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 8580 times:

Quoting briboy (Reply 12):
YHM does not have US Pre-clearance, so is not very useful for trans-border flying. That and:

* it is not convenient to Toronto by road
* if you are close to YHM, why not just drive to BUF?

If YHM provides a good enough of a business case, they will add pre-clearance (Halifax, YHZ only had it a couple years back anyways)

While BUF is close enough, there are many people who wouldn't want to drive across the border and have to leave their cars parked at BUF.


User currently offlinecjpark From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1248 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 8460 times:

Quoting 727200er (Reply 9):
Hey Southwest come on up to YXX, we'll fill your planes.

Good Luck!

We said the same thing about DFW but we all know how that turned out.



"Any airline that wants to serve the [region] can go to DFW today and fly anywhere they want," WN spokesman Ed Stewart
User currently offlineJA From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 563 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8094 times:

I think Southwest needs to be careful about picking a fight with WestJet on slots. That is a totally different issue. You don't want to say "It's On" and hear a response saying "Come Get Some".

User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4019 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7964 times:

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 2):
At any rate, if and when WN decides they would like to serve Canada, they can do it alone.

Agreed, but it will mean having a computer system that can handle international currency and pre-selected seats and pre-assigned seats, with no cattle-herd seating...all of whuch WN continues to show a reluctance to do. Sooner or later WN must offer service to Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean if their business model is to continue to grow. They are nearly out of options in the mainland U.S. as it is.

As I see it, WS is better off making a deal with DL



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineYXXMIKE From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7783 times:

Does WN require that growth to survive or can it just work on being an excellent US carrier that makes money quarter after quarter? All Canadian airlines require so much more IT infrastructure than an American Airline, as once our growth starts we rely heavily on international routes to make money long term. An excellent example is AC with their restructring program focusing in on long haul high yield markets; this is because the Canadian market just isn't the same size as its US counterpart.

330 million inhabitants vs. 34 million, the market will always be different and it would be great if WN didn't bother coming into it. I'd rather see Virgin America try to make a splash instead, that way I know that I'm still paying over the odds but I get cool lighting to make up for it!


User currently offlineJPuentes From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7713 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 17):
Sooner or later WN must offer service to Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean if their business model is to continue to grow. They are nearly out of options in the mainland U.S. as it is.

I think they are doing fine with the deal they have in mexico with Volaris which I really didnt know much about but I guess its turning into the WN of Mexico which I thought was pretty cool.............As for the WN out of options thing, I believe they got quite a bit more left before that happens.



If you can't convince them, confuse them
User currently offlinePeachAir From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 365 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6957 times:

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 18):
All Canadian airlines require so much more IT infrastructure than an American Airline, as once our growth starts we rely heavily on international routes to make money long term

I would like to know how you came to this conclusion. I have worked with both Delta's and Air Canada's IT infrastructure. Why is it that Delta's (who is a much bigger international carrier than Air Canada) has such a small IT footprint when compared to AC? I think it is a matter of a lot of red tape and antiquated infrastructure requirements. I also noticed that Air Canada has 4x redundancy with their airport IT infrastructure (at least at airports in the US - which seems like a big waste of money.)


User currently offlineDash8Pilot From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5398 times:

Wow, Delta code sharing with Westjet and WN coming to Canada.. This is going to be very interesting!!!!!!!

User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2062 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5329 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 17):
As I see it, WS is better off making a deal with DL

Until a DL passenger wants to fly XYZ-LAS-YVR in F......


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10332 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5298 times:

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 2):
I remember how WN mentioned last year that they are not in a hurry to get the codesharing agreement with WJ done as fast as they should due to the bad economy and other competing priorities...whatever that means!!!

I think it means that WN's pilots had objections to the deal, IIRC.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 22):
Until a DL passenger wants to fly XYZ-LAS-YVR in F......

Well, you're not going to get that with WN, either.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22681 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4967 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 23):
Well, you're not going to get that with WN, either.

You're missing the point. WN and WS have much more similar onboard products than do DL and WS. That makes codesharing easier.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
25 tharanga : I see the point, but I wouldn't overstate it. Different airlines codeshare with Cape Air as well, and that's a slightly different experience, too. So
26 Cubsrule : Nor would I. I'm not sure the comparison to 9K is apposite, though; 9K is the only service to many of its markets and thus the only way for majors to
27 tharanga : Ok, but what about my second point? Is Westjet's onboard service any lower than, say, Y on US?
28 peanuts : I will say this: DL/WS, AA/B6, WN, DCA, LGA, BOS, DL dropping YX codeshare... Not everything is related but I find some of these developments highly p
29 Cubsrule : No - it's similar to F9 (though the seat pitch is worse).
30 briboy : The 403 does not go to Toronto. I think you are thinking of the QEW. Most of the day, it is a parking lot. There is a reason UPS moved a flight from
31 threepoint : The flying folks in Abbotsford sure didn't fill AC's planes. And with Allegiant so popular just a few km down the road in BLI, I'm not so sure YXX is
32 dadoftyler : You're right, CJ! DFW's customers ARE filling Southwest's airplanes. At Dallas Love Field. Happy Easter. Bill
33 Cubsrule : Regardless of how good a market it is (and how good a market YHM is, for that matter), in the States, WN has clearly shifted its emphasis to primary
34 yyz717 : WN has long stated that it has no need or desire to add int'l destinations, as long as substantial growth opportunities exist in the US. The only bus
35 Cubsrule : Agreed, but does most of Delta's REVENUE fly Y?
36 tharanga : But what opportunity cost is there? The choice is: codeshare with westjet, or codeshare with nobody in Canada. An exclusively business-class passenge
37 Cubsrule : I don't know that there's much, but I also don't see much benefit. DL isn't after (and will never be after) intra-Canada traffic, and they serve tran
38 Post contains links LAXintl : Well that unraveled pretty fast. I'd be curious to know what the amendments were that Westjet was seeking that Southwest found simply unacceptable. Fu
39 Post contains links SLCUT2777 : http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh.../item.aspx?type=blog&ak=88331.blog It certainly did. Look to a fairly significant agreement with DL to move
40 SLCUT2777 : Those days are coming to an abrupt end since they are now about out of growth options and going to Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean are their best go
41 chrisair : They are? You must work in WN's revenue management department.
42 SLCUT2777 : The Wal-Qaeda of air travel in the U.S.
43 worldtraveler : It isn't terribly great knowledge... WN had a lot of opportunities as the first and most successful LFC but there are not only a whole lot more LFCs
44 par13del : I get the currency issue, I don't get the assigned seating, is that an international requirement? WN does not use assigned seating but boarding group
45 Post contains links LoneStarMike : From the Dallas Morning News: Southwest-Westjet Deal Collapses That brings up another question. Westjet is wanting to code share with Delta at LGA. I
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