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MKE Record Month In Feb For Passengers  
User currently offlinelegacytravel From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1067 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2995 times:

Good news and this does show that we can draw quite a few passengers from Chicago area as well.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/89737792.html

I still think in the future we will be able to have flights from MKE-LHR due to people being tired of the ORDdeal

Mark in MKE


I love the smell of Jet fuel in the Morning
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2862 posts, RR: 30
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2832 times:

For long-time observers of MKE, it's remarkable to see them out-board airports which were perpetually far above them in traffic and ranking. Traditionally all of these airports were solidly larger than Milwaukee in the past, some by a large measure. Obviously some of this is due to hubs being reduced or dismantled at some airports. Yet it's still remarkable to see MKE's relative position. Last year February they served 500,025 passengers, so if they had the same year-over-year change that the nation had as a whole (total traffic was down about 2% year over year IRRC) MKE would be around the bottom of this list.

670,048 ….. Memphis
668,504 ….. Milwaukee
647,318 ….. Cleveland
630,940 ….. Kansas City
611,709 ….. Houson Hobby
595,474 ….. Sacramento
594,448 ….. Cincinnati
591,934 ….. Nashville
554,479 ….. San Jose
549,349 ….. San Antonio
539,321 ….. Dallas Love
530,487 ….. Raleigh / Durham
516,949 ….. Indianapolis
497,237 ….. Pittsburgh
418,398 ….. Columbus


User currently offlineDeltaDawg From United States of America, joined May 2006, 772 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2729 times:

The article sights SWA as a contributor but in my eyes i would put the major source of contribution to FL for opening up the MKE market to outside competition to YX. WIthout FL coming in MKE would still be in the same position it was in the past.

GO AIRTRAN!!!



GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
User currently offlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2862 posts, RR: 30
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2706 times:

AirTran was definitely responsible for the largest amount of the year-over-year growth. For the first two months of 2010, here's how many additional passengers were carried at MKE compared to 2009:

+171,609 AirTran
+105,870 Southwest (new service)
+95,302 Midwest/Frontier
+36,655 Skywest branded (new service)

A large piece of AirTran's growth has been connecting traffic at MKE. For the first two months of 2009 they averaged about 76 connecting passengers per day, while this year it's 1,660 connecting passengers per day. And that doesn't include the new connections fed to AirTran by the Skywest branded operation. But in any case, traffic is way up.

(Those numbers come from the MKE airport stats. Different airlines are inconsistant on how they report, so it's hard to accurately compare between airlines. But comparisons for the same airline over time should be accurate as long as they keep their own methodology the same.)

[Edited 2010-04-02 11:51:32]

User currently offlinelegacytravel From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1067 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2661 times:

MKE was underserved in my view. To me it is a positive to see how many people are connecting here in MKE on FL, it seems to show that their hub is working, (not sure if it making money). However when you have a choice of connecting in ATL or MKE, MKE is a no brainer in my opinion.

Also the article does state that MKE is drawing from Northern burbs of ORD, which is also a positive sign for MKE. I wonder how much of those people are flying on LUV and instead of dealing with Chicago they just head north.

Mark in MKE



I love the smell of Jet fuel in the Morning
User currently offlinenorcal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2642 times:

What really matters most for the airlines at MKE (particularly RAH) are the yields. Are the yields still in the toilet?

User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6572 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2636 times:

It would be interesting to see exactly how much O+D traffic has been stimulated versus connecting traffic. That would give you a better feel for potentially how much traffic is being pulled from the northern suburbs of Chicago.

While all this growth is great, it remains to be seen how much of it is sustainable. Looking at the going fares, I have doubts that anyone is making money at MKE. My guess is that one of three things will have to happen within the next few years:

1) FL gives up on MKE hub
2) YX/RAH givs up on MKE hub
3) YX/RAH and FL partner up (codeshare) to eliminate redundant capacity

WN will stay in the market, but I doubt they will have a large presence.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24964 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2631 times:
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Quoting norcal (Reply 5):
What really matters most for the airlines at MKE (particularly RAH) are the yields. Are the yields still in the toilet?

I'm not sure why it should be any more troublesome to Republic than anyone else, but I don't think yields are much better.

But I believe (?) load factor for both Frontier and Midwest was very fine last month.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinenorcal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2610 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 7):
I'm not sure why it should be any more troublesome to Republic than anyone else, but I don't think yields are much better.

1. Their two biggest cities for branded operation are DEN and MKE, both of which are having yields trashed
2. Their cash position isn't the greatest right now, WN and FL can both outlast RAH

Quoting mariner (Reply 7):
But I believe (?) load factor for both Frontier and Midwest was very fine last month.

That is meaningless, all that matters are the yields. I could start my own airline and fly A380s from A to B and get 100% load factors, but if in order to do so I have to lower my ticket prices below costs then I won't make any money.

WN has been profitable for decades and has one of the lowest load factors in the industry.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24964 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2599 times:
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Quoting norcal (Reply 8):
1. Their two biggest cities for branded operation are DEN and MKE, both of which are having yields trashed

Yes. This was known. But it applies to all airlines.

Quoting norcal (Reply 8):
2. Their cash position isn't the greatest right now, WN and FL can both outlast RAH

As BB has frequently said, they have access to more cash - they simply don't feel it is necessary - yet.

Quoting norcal (Reply 8):
That is meaningless, all that matters are the yields.

I thought I made that separation?   

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinenorcal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2586 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 9):
Yes. This was known. But it applies to all airlines

More so for RAH branded ops, they will live or die in DEN and MKE

Quoting mariner (Reply 9):
As BB has frequently said, they have access to more cash - they simply don't feel it is necessary - yet.

Lenders might not give out cash if they don't see any improvement or if the yields continue to degrade


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24964 posts, RR: 85
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2573 times:
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Quoting norcal (Reply 10):
More so for RAH branded ops, they will live or die in DEN and MKE

But DEN and MKE are not their only source of income. Just as MKE is not Airtran's only source of income, nor Southwest's.

Once again, it is playing out exactly as BB said.

And I note that it is Southwest pulling down some service at MKE.

Quoting norcal (Reply 10):
Lenders might not give out cash if they don't see any improvement or if the yields continue to degrade

Might? Sure. Anything is possible. Henny Penny, the sky is falling.

I simply don't underestimate BB - he doesn't need to go to the credit markets.

mariner

[Edited 2010-04-02 13:35:28]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlinenorcal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2515 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 11):
But DEN and MKE are not their only source of income.

DEN and MKE are the major source of income for the branded ops. It'd be like CO getting creamed in IAH and EWR and saying, "it's ok because those airports aren't their only source of income." Sure Guam and CLE are nice but CO would be doomed with continuing bad yields in IAH and EWR.

The regional feed income for the rest of RAH is at best steady and most likely shrinking so it can't be relied on to hold up the branded side. The financial losses so far are to be expected given the merger activities, but if FL and WN keep the pressure up and the losses continue RAH will be in serious trouble. RAH is in a far more perilous situation than FL and WN.

Quoting mariner (Reply 11):
Just as MKE is not Airtran's only source of income, nor Southwest's.

But they are both established carriers with much larger cash reserves.

Quoting mariner (Reply 11):
And I note that it is Southwest pulling down some service at MKE.

While turning up the heat in DEN.....

Quoting mariner (Reply 11):
I simply don't underestimate BB - he doesn't need to go to the credit markets.

Where is he going to magically get money from?


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24964 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2509 times:
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Quoting norcal (Reply 12):
DEN and MKE are the major source of income for the branded ops.

Yes, I know that.

Quoting norcal (Reply 12):
The regional feed income for the rest of RAH is at best steady and most likely shrinking so it can't be relied on to hold up the branded side.

It can for the foreseeable future. And at some point, the situation at MKE and DEN will change. The wild card is the price of oil.

Quoting norcal (Reply 12):
While turning up the heat in DEN.....

Yes, I know that, too.

Quoting norcal (Reply 12):
Where is he going to magically get money from?

There's no "magic" to it. It's been discussed in other threads, but I think it is off-topic here.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinelegacytravel From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1067 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2400 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 11):
And I note that it is Southwest pulling down some service at MKE.

What is Southwest drawing down in MKE? I have been quite busy lately and must have missed something.

Mark in MKE



I love the smell of Jet fuel in the Morning
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24964 posts, RR: 85
Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2385 times:
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Quoting legacytravel (Reply 14):
What is Southwest drawing down in MKE? I have been quite busy lately and must have missed something.

As per the OAG thread, they are dropping two frequencies - 1 x TPA and 1 x MCO:

OAG Changes 4/1/2010: AA/AC/DL/F9/FL/NK/UA/WN/YX (by enilria Apr 1 2010 in Civil Aviation)

I imagine it is seasonal.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2348 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2354 times:

Quoting norcal (Reply 8):
1. Their two biggest cities for branded operation are DEN and MKE, both of which are having yields trashed

This may well be, but so far this year, I am paying about 40% more for flights than what I payed on the same routes last year. Prices are not that cheap, even to Florida. This time last yea,r I flew to TPA for as little as $128 RT, with a two week buy. This year I can't get below $350. YMMV.


User currently offlinelegacytravel From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1067 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2315 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 15):
As per the OAG thread, they are dropping two frequencies - 1 x TPA and 1 x MCO:

Mariner thanks for the info. The demand to TPA and MCO is not as great during the summer months for sure. I know my wife and by a quirk of fate my boss fly in LAS on Tuesday with LUV and we have been told that the flight is sold out. I am taking YX/F9. I am looking forward to my first flight on "a whole different animal"

Mark in MKE



I love the smell of Jet fuel in the Morning
User currently offlineYXwatcherMkE From United States of America, joined May 2007, 962 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2271 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 15):
Quoting legacytravel (Reply 17):

They also dropped their flight to PHX about 6 weeks ago.



I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1536 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2229 times:

Quoting YXwatcherMkE (Reply 18):
They also dropped their flight to PHX about 6 weeks ago.

Uhh, no they didn't.  



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlinemke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2434 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2210 times:

Quoting YXwatcherMkE (Reply 18):
They also dropped their flight to PHX about 6 weeks ago.

Why would they drop PHX? Hasn't that been their best performer out of MKE?



Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6774 posts, RR: 35
Reply 21, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2198 times:

Quoting legacytravel (Thread starter):
I still think in the future we will be able to have flights from MKE-LHR due to people being tired of the ORDdeal

Let's not get crazy now.

MKE has plugged itself as the 3rd Chicago airport for decades, to no avail yet. Over the pond flights? Come on, even the most ardent homer has to admit the folly of that.

[quote=norcal,reply=5]What really matters most for the airlines at MKE (particularly RAH) are the yields. Are the yields still in the toilet?

Good point. For a long time, MKE had a premium on yield on those nonstop markets that ORD didn't touch, whi9ch actually DROVE people TO ORD not to MKE. What it is now is another question given the FL and WN dynamics, not to mention the bizarro Republic mix and usual strong NW (DL) position.


User currently offlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2348 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2125 times:

Quoting Slider (Reply 21):
MKE has plugged itself as the 3rd Chicago airport for decades, to no avail yet

Disagree with no avail. Some avail. And more avail if they can get the marketing down.


User currently offlineisitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 24
Reply 23, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2101 times:

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 3):

After looking at the stats you have shown us, I'd say there's a new sheriff in town.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2862 posts, RR: 30
Reply 24, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1994 times:

Quoting isitsafenow (Reply 23):
After looking at the stats you have shown us, I'd say there's a new sheriff in town.

The stats I posted were year-over-year increases in traffic. The old sheriff still carried a whole lot more passengers in this period.

Total passengers for the same period (first two months of 2010)

467,508 YX/F9
361,197 FL
036,664 OO

That's just under 30% more passengers for Midwest than AirTran, or if you include the Skywest branded flights too, it's 17.5%.

The original stats were about year-over-year change, and there's a key reason that AirTran's year-over-year passenger counts rose so much. The prior fall/winter AirTran dropped nearly all of their east-west connecting hub, pulling nonstop flights to LAX, SFO, SEA, BOS and DCA. This most recent fall/winter they did not drop the east-west connecting hub in Milwaukee. Hence the large jump in traffic, including the large jump in connecting traffic I mentioned earlier (76/day last year verus 1660/day this year.)

AirTran definitely carried more total passengers than last year, more local passengers than last year, and narrowed the gap with YX/F9. But we won't see year-over-year increases of this magnitude too much longer.


25 YXwatcherMkE : Sorry but I was just going by what I saw on the MKE master monthly schedule on the MKE website. Then I double checked it on the WN website. But if yo
26 FL787 : It's on WN's website. Where are you looking? Just check flight status today.
27 YXwatcherMkE : Ok I conceed, I sit corrected. But I just looked back on my printed copy of the March and Feb.2010 MKE Monthly Master carrier schedule that MKE posts
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