My question is, why is it that PHL seems to be lacking in international carriers? I know that every day the international terminal is packed with US jets going to various destinations in Europe, but the only extra European carriers that operate are LH and BA. AFAIK the loads seem to be pretty good (US flights seem to be full most of the time if you check their websites) and BA can sustain a double daily flight. Also, US is going double daily to FRA. I flew AF to CDG in November of 2008 and both flights were packed! I've looked back at some threads and seen that people have said that loads are not that good but that is not what I've seen.
I guess what I am wondering is if it would be possible for there to be more international airlines at PHL, whether it be from Europe or Asia. Also, is US planning any international expansion out of PHL with the new A330-200's that are coming?
silentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1875 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3841 times:
Once the economy shows signs of an extended recovery, US will add more service from PHL. US has a significant advantage when operating international flights out of PHL thanks to the hundreds of mainline and express flights a day they operate. Any other airline has to get by on O&D numbers alone.
silentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1875 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3604 times:
Quoting will777 (Reply 2): This is true, but why is it then that there are only the two other airlines that operate international flights.
What other city/country do you think can support a flight to PHL? LH could potentially do it, but US is their partner in *A and it would be hard to see LH operating a competing flight. It certainly doesn't help that PHL is located between NYC and Washington DC, limiting the number of people that are likely to use it as their point of departure.
747fan From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1172 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3515 times:
Several reasons why PHL has only 2 European flag carriers:
The fact that its sandwiched between NYC and WAS, 2 markets that each have a higher demand for international service - both are considered premier destinations for many foreign flag carriers.
Its proximity to EWR in particular causes some leakage with it being a fairly easy trip up there on Amtrak.
The simple fact that US has a fortress hub at PHL with a healthy amount of transatlantic routes.
Overall PHL is far from lacking in international flights. If I'm not mistaken it has more service to Europe than BOS for example (yes I'm well aware that BOS has more foreign carriers) and has a decent presence to the Caribbean as well. Additionally, a link to Asia is a matter of when rather than if - other than a nonstop link to deep South America (GRU, GIG or EZE) that's the only thing PHL lacks in terms of international service.
Several have mentioned AF's lack of success in PHL - several other large non-SkyTeam markets in the U.S. seem to have struggled somewhat, notably ORD and EWR (the AF summer long-haul schedule thread mentioned this). Of course all these airports have strong competition from a hub carrier in a different alliance but that's a whole other discussion.
will777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 174 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3497 times:
Quoting 747fan (Reply 6): Additionally, a link to Asia is a matter of when rather than if - other than a nonstop link to deep South America (GRU, GIG or EZE) that's the only thing PHL lacks in terms of international service.
Thanks for this. When do you think these services will happen? About the link to Asia, would this be another great 787 destination? I know there was also a recent thread about NH and DEN using the 787, would this also work well in PHL?
PHLwok From United States of America, joined May 2007, 420 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3177 times:
Quoting 747fan (Reply 6): other than a nonstop link to deep South America (GRU, GIG or EZE) that's the only thing PHL lacks in terms of international service.
And this may take a little while - with US having the CLT hub further south, it likely makes more sense for further South American service to route through there to maximize connection opportunities. Even US 800, the CLT-GIG service, actually has the flight # route PHL-CLT-GIG.
PHLwok From United States of America, joined May 2007, 420 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3125 times:
Quoting will777 (Reply 9): This makes much more sense for South America travel. But with new services that could be added to Europe or even Asia, would PHL be the better of the two for connections?
Maybe, but CLT has been gaining more service to the larger European cities on US lately - it now has LGW, FRA, CDG (now year-round I believe), FCO (new), plus MUC on LH. I would think US would still base South American flights in CLT as more passengers would be routing to/from North American destinations and only a small minority would need to double connect (e.g., S America - CLT-PHL - destination). Asia is a wild card in my mind - especially if PHX gets US service there first.
At the moment, though, I would imagine most passengers want to avoid connecting in the USA - visa and security regs make it more painful versus connecting, say, in continental Europe.
Quoting tharanga (Reply 3): Well, AF would still be flying PHL-CDG, but they gave that flight to DL under the joint venture.
So really you can add AF to the list; it's a joint venture flight.
Quoting will777 (Reply 4): Does anyone have information about how the DL flight to CDG is doing? Would there be any chance that AF could return to the route with its own metal?
I think it's reasonnable to say that AF was quite successful to PHL during the summer, but the main problem was the winter season. And the smallest long-haul A/C in AF fleet is the A332 which was too much capacity for the winter season. So it was more logical and justified economically to transfer the route to DL with a 757 within the joint venture. Between AF & DL, it dosen't matter who operate the route : they share revenues and losses.
Does anybody know if DL will increase capacity on PHL-CDG during the summer because a 757 seems clearly too small ?
We can imagine that the route could be operated during the winter by DL and during the summer by AF, but I doubt we'll see that. AF & DL do not seem to want to switch their routes as frequently as KL and NW did. But who knows...
LAXdude1023 From Lebanon, joined Sep 2006, 7082 posts, RR: 25 Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2673 times:
I think PHL's biggest problem is its locale. Its sandwiched between NYC and DC and its very close to EWR and JFK (within 120 miles-easy train ride or drive if the price is right).
Last week I was on an AY flight from HEL to JFK. I had a conversation with 4 or 5 people who were all from Philly and going back to Philly. But they were flying to JFK and taking a train back. They said they didnt fly out of PHL because of the connection they would have to make.
Alot of PHL-Asia travelers end up making the short trek to EWR and flying out that way. I know several people from out PHL office that do just that. If PHL gets an Asia flight, it would probably come in the form of KE to ICN or NH to NRT. I dont think a China flight would work very well.
DFW Fan Boy: Im crude, irreverent, and blunt, but Im not clueless. I offer no apologies.
hjulicher From Liechtenstein, joined Feb 2005, 857 posts, RR: 2 Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2671 times:
PHL is also another destination where LH doesn't send their 3 class configured jets, instead opting for a 2 class 343. This pretty much signals that high premium traffic is lacking in PHL. I wonder how BA does with their First Class cabins into PHL, because LH could easily send A333 with a 3-class config to PHL if it was warranted.
I believe that there are only 3 cities in the US and 2 in Canada which see only 2-class configurations. ATL, PHL, DFW, YYZ and YYC for the flights to FRA. Flights to MUC aren't included.
Flytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 710 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2604 times:
JFK can be rough trip to reach from areas in Jersey and Philly metropolitan area, but its done, and for a group of 2 or 3+, where somebody has a day off to drop them off, it'd maybe worth it. EWR is preferable to reach. JFK airport was the gateway of how many immigrants came to the region 20+ years ago. I wonder with WN opening PHL-BOS with no bag fees, if it'd open up a DIY market where pax in PHL region looking to fly intl, might consider BOS-intl. WIth WN low fares, It could be cheaper and less stressful reaching BOS (than JFK) where BOS is an alternative to PHL and EWR availability.
From an Inquirer reporter: http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/wingingit/89524742.html
Just mentions about the idea of a American feeder to JFK.