Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
New Frontier/Midwest #9  
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25254 posts, RR: 85
Posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 14720 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

We're not much further along - the debate about the name of the unified name/brand still rages. Everyone has their point of view.

I've given mine - that leaders are defined by how they handle adversity - but some believe my view to be eccentric. LOL.

Anyhoo, this image is not intended to suggest which name I believe will survive. I'm putting it here as a mark of respect for the people at Midwest, who really did have, at one stage, one of the best airlines in the US:

[ photo removed at request of the owner ]

Some thought the last thread would last until the decision is known - April 13th. Fat chance. I doubt that this one will last that long, either.

As a side note, I believe N206FR has now been assigned its (temporary) French registration - F-WWBX - but don't search the web for pictures of it, It isn't out of the paint shop yet.

Onwards, ever onwards.

mariner

[Edited 2010-04-04 12:41:34 by diamond]


aeternum nauta
251 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFRNT787 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1324 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 14689 times:

Quoting beryllium from the previous thread:
"His Napoleonic plans of joining and alliance, and ordering C-Series, and stuff like that, hints on the idea that he probably envisions a full-service, business-oriented airline for his brand."

I hardly see visions of joining an airline alliance "Napoleonic". Partnering with others does not seem to fit the bill. As for ordering the C-Series, he ordered enough to replace the A318/A319 fleet less than 1 for 1. Simple fact is that is quite reasonable (especially given the deal he undoubtedly got).

What that all means to me, is that he has grand plans for a great airline. (afterall...what is wrong with that?). I can't wait to see if there are any fun surprises in store. Perhaps this could end up with a great way of competing with WN and UA at DEN and FL at MKE very, very successfully.



"We have a right to fail, because failure makes us grow" --Glenn Beck
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25254 posts, RR: 85
Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 14678 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting FRNT787 (Reply 1):
I hardly see visions of joining an airline alliance "Napoleonic"

Nor I.

BB specifically said - when asked - that the airline would never even fly to Tokyo, so I doubt they are planning to fly to Moscow.

LOL.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinelrdc9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 14683 times:

Not to drag anybody away from the upcoming branding announcement, future fleet choice, beating upon others, etc., but what is up with the ex-YX M80s? I recall the last time I passed through MKE there was at least one there. Still crossing the fingers for Chautauqua  


Just say NO to scabs.
User currently offlineDaus From United States of America, joined May 2005, 288 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 14588 times:

I flew out of MKE last week on Midwest to BOS and what I found interesting is that all the overhead calls in the terminal were using the combined name FrontierMidwest (or was is MidwestFrontier?)... Will they cop out to that?  

User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1541 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 14552 times:

The more I think about MKE, RAH, and the ending DL agreement, the more sense it makes to me for RAH and FL to come to some sort of an arrangement. I think that RAH and FL should enter into some pro-rate agreement where RAH flies E70s (in a new 6C64Y config.) and ER4s out of MKE in conjunction with FL flying 717s and 73Gs. Obviously OO would be dumped. I would assume they would fly under the FL brand because IMO the moment the YX brand goes away, FL becomes the most recognized brand in MKE. This may seem like a big reduction of flying for RAH out of MKE, but of the planned 101 flight schedule this summer only 21 are on the E90 or A319. The other 80 flights are on E70s, ER4s, or ER3s. RAH could move the A319s and E90s to MCI or DEN to boost operations there. FL and F9 would then finally create a systemwide codeshare that would create a nationwide duo. In the future, RAH could potentially add some regional flying out of BWI for FL.

For MKE I could see the future situation looking something like this:

73G/717: BOS, LGA, DCA, BWI, DEN, ATL, MCO, RSW, TPA, FLL, PHX, SAN, LAS, LAX, SEA, SFO and in the future possibly PDX, ANC, CUN, MBJ, PVR, MIA, SRQ, etc.

E70: PHL, DFW, MCI, OMA, MSP, STL, RDU, PIT, EWR and in the future possibly CLT, DTW, HOU, SLC, etc. E70s could also fly some off-peak BOS, LGA, and DCA flights.

ER4: DSM, ATW, GRB, MSN, IND, GRR, FNT, BNA, CAK, CMH, and DAY

F9 would still fly DEN/MCI-MKE in addition to the these flights.

I think this would create a balanced, reasonable hub with 110-120 flights a day. Wifi could be added to the E70s to create a consistent product. Don't know what happens to the cookie though...

Any thoughts/comments/questions/reasons it won't happen?

[Edited 2010-04-03 16:13:08]


717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6771 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 14504 times:

Quoting FL787 (Reply 5):
Any thoughts/comments/questions/reasons it won't happen?

Yeah! Where is RDU in that mix? Hmmph..

Anywho.. I just have question for the name game.. are they trying to be a business airline (a la Delta, US, AA, etc) or are they trying to be a leisure/low cost airline (a la Allegient, jetBlue, Westjet, etc) or are they wanting to be an in-between (a la Southwest, AirTran, etc) .. I think that will point to the name.. Business would be Midwest, Low Cost/Leisure would be Frontier, in between would be Midwest..

As of yet, I don't know what route they are trying to take..



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineberyllium From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 14475 times:

Quoting FL787 (Reply 5):
The more I think about MKE, RAH, and the ending DL agreement, the more sense it makes to me for RAH and FL to come to some sort of an arrangement. I think that RAH and FL should enter into some pro-rate agreement where RAH flies E70s (in a new 6C64Y config.) and ER4s out of MKE in conjunction with FL flying 717s and 73Gs. Obviously OO would be dumped.

In this industry we probably should never say "never". But, as I mentioned before, it is hard to believe that 2 entities who were nothing but enemies in recent years, would go dancing together any time soon (even in light of the recent announcement of ending of DL/YX relationship).
In any case, I don't think FL is that desperate to tie the knot with just anybody. And if it goes that far that FL and RAH develop cooperation, FL would want to be the one who's gonna be calling the shots.
I also don't think they have just started this partnership with OO, only to drop it so soon. This newly formed partnership had to be a part of a plan for long-term cooperation...


User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1541 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 14441 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 6):
Yeah! Where is RDU in that mix? Hmmph..

oops, I knew I'd forget one. I edited my post.

Quoting beryllium (Reply 7):

Well, judging by how wrong you've been on everything so far, you saying it won't happen only makes it more likely.

Quoting beryllium (Reply 7):
In any case, I don't think FL is that desperate to tie the knot with just anybody.

It would be a good idea for FL to have a partner who could provide access to different parts of the country.

Quoting beryllium (Reply 7):
But, as I mentioned before, it is hard to believe that 2 entities who were nothing but enemies in recent years

RAH and FL have only been competing for about a year, maybe less.

Quoting beryllium (Reply 7):
FL would want to be the one who's gonna be calling the shots.

Nobody needs to call the shots. It would be cooperative.

Quoting beryllium (Reply 7):
I also don't think they have just started this partnership with OO, only to drop it so soon.

All FL or OO have to do to end the relationship is provide notice at least 120 days in advance. The whole deal was only a maximum of three years so I don't think it is a long-term relationship at all.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineberyllium From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 14437 times:

Quoting FRNT787 (Reply 1):
I hardly see visions of joining an airline alliance "Napoleonic".
Quoting FRNT787 (Reply 1):
What that all means to me, is that he has grand plans for a great airline.

OK... You hardly see the vision of joining an alliance as "Napoleonic", you see it as "Grand"... That's fine.
You are making an emphasis on that difference, but that was not the point of my post, though.
I was saying that these napoleonic (OK... grand) plans hint on his ambition to create a full-service business-oriented airline.
And for the business-oriented airline, Midwest name seems to be more appropriate. That's what I was talking about...


User currently offlinekingcavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1306 posts, RR: 17
Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 14439 times:

Quoting FL787 (Reply 8):
All FL or OO have to do to end the relationship is provide notice at least 120 days in advance.

This is true, but no decision (120-day notice) can be made until after May 15.



Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1541 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 14421 times:

Quoting kingcavalier (Reply 10):
This is true, but no decision (120-day notice) can be made until after May 15.

Well I was assuming they wouldn't get this whole thing up and running in 42 days. You're right though.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlinekingcavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1306 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 14404 times:

Quoting beryllium (Reply 9):
OK... You hardly see the vision of joining an alliance as "Napoleonic", you see it as "Grand"...

Let's hope BB doesn't start flying to Waterloo, IA then. Waterloo didn't go as planned for Napoleon.



Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
User currently offlineberyllium From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 14405 times:

Quoting FL787 (Reply 8):
Well, judging by how wrong you've been on everything so far, you saying it won't happen only makes it more likely.

On everything?...

Quoting FL787 (Reply 8):
RAH and FL have only been competing for about a year, maybe less.

YX and FL?...


User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1541 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 14390 times:

Quoting beryllium (Reply 13):
On everything?...

Pretty close.

Quoting beryllium (Reply 13):
YX and FL?...

YX is dead. FL killed YX and is now competing with RAH who is using the YX brand.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineberyllium From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 14393 times:

Quoting kingcavalier (Reply 12):
Let's hope BB doesn't start flying to Waterloo, IA then. Waterloo didn't go as planned for Napoleon.

Judging by his recent route announcements, Waterloo, IA is quite possible, and definitely much more likely than Moscow, Russian Federation...  


User currently offlineberyllium From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 14378 times:

Quoting FL787 (Reply 14):
Pretty close.

For instance...


User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1541 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 14360 times:

Quoting beryllium (Reply 16):
For instance...

Well this thread just started and I don't want to read through the last one but here's one so far about the FL/OO deal:

Quoting beryllium (Reply 7):
This newly formed partnership had to be a part of a plan for long-term cooperation...



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently onlinen7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1734 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 14331 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting lrdc9 (Reply 3):
Not to drag anybody away from the upcoming branding announcement, future fleet choice, beating upon others, etc., but what is up with the ex-YX M80s? I recall the last time I passed through MKE there was at least one there. Still crossing the fingers for Chautauqua

Love the Mad Dog...remember the original Frontier flew 18 when it was shut down in August, 1986. Here's what I have on the Midwest M80 fleet:

N601ME M88 stored Blytheville, Ak
N701ME M88 stored ___; sold to Dynamic Aviation (9/08)
N803ME M81 broken up for parts; sold to Allegiant for parts
N804ME M81 stored Blytheville, Ak - still owned by Republic
N805ME M81 broken up for parts; sold to Allegiant for parts
N806ME M81 broken up for parts Opa-Locka, FL
N807ME M81 broken up for parts Goodyear, AZ
N808ME M82 stored Blytheville, Ak
N809ME M82 stored Blytheville, Ak
N810ME M82 stored Blytheville, Ak - still owned by Republic
N812ME M81 stored San Antonio
N813ME M81 stored Blytheville, Ak - still owned by Republic
M814ME M81 stores Blytheville, Ak - still owned by Republic
N822ME M88 active with Allegiant Air (N412NV)
N823ME M88 active with Allegiant Air (N414NV)


User currently offlineberyllium From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 14327 times:

Quoting FL787 (Reply 17):

So, you are saying that it is wrong. You can prove it?
Yes, it could be wrong, but what do you know about the partnership between FL and OO?
What do you know about the talks they held?
What do you know what was discussed and is being discussed on those meetings between FL and OO executives?
It's very easy to spit out something like:

Quoting FL787 (Reply 8):
Well, judging by how wrong you've been on everything so far, you saying it won't happen only makes it more likely.

But remember that when you are accusing someone of factual inaccuracies, it would not hurt if you get your own facts straight first.


User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1541 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 14302 times:

Quoting beryllium (Reply 19):
You can prove it?

The deal is only a maximum of 3 years and it couldn't be any easier to opt out early for either party.

Quoting beryllium (Reply 19):
But remember that when you are accusing someone of factual inaccuracies, it would not hurt if you get your own facts straight first.

True. It applies to everyone.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineberyllium From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 14271 times:

Quoting FL787 (Reply 20):
True. It applies to everyone.

Exactly.

As you've noticed, I did not tell you that all this:

Quoting FL787 (Reply 5):

is nothing but a bunch of baloney.
Because, those are your thoughts and, regardless of what I think about them, I respect them.
Have respect for others' thoughts, too, before you claim that all what they are saying is "BS or pretty close".


User currently offlinePlanePainter From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 56 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 14283 times:

206FR is painted, just no tail applied yet.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/a380spotter/4483683663/


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25254 posts, RR: 85
Reply 23, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 14261 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 6):
are they trying to be a business airline (a la Delta, US, AA, etc) or are they trying to be a leisure/low cost airline (a la Allegient, jetBlue, Westjet, etc) or are they wanting to be an in-between (a la Southwest, AirTran, etc) ..

Is it so cut and dried? I know it is said that Midwest is basically business and Frontier is basically leisure, but there seems to me to be a lot of over-lap.

I thought the purpose of Midwest's Saver was to attract the leisure crowd, at least to Florida, and Frontier carries a lot of suits to DCA.

You put JetBlue in the category of leisure, but when I was in LA, JetBlue was the hot favorite among the Hollywood studio third or fourth tier executives, well-paid - Armani suits - but who didn't get as many travel perks as those slightly higher up the ladder.

They liked the niche quality about JetBlue - they were getting lower prices but with good-ish service levels but without having to travel in economy on the legacies. Same with a lot of the young tech crowd at SFO - the well=-paid geeks who only had Platinum Amex, not Black Amex.

Similarly, I guess Airtran can be called "in-between" - but they call MCO their hometown and I don't think of Orlando as a business destination.

Using yoru defintions, I would think that BB is aiming for "in-between" status. To keep or attract as many business pax as they can, but I can't see them giving up CUN and SJO, ANC or Florida.

Quoting PlanePainter (Reply 22):
206FR is painted, just no tail applied yet.


  

Thanks for the update - I didn't see it yesterday. Is that another clue? LOL.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1541 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 14253 times:

Quoting beryllium (Reply 21):
As you've noticed, I did not tell you that all this:

Quoting FL787 (Reply 5):


is nothing but a bunch of baloney.

I'm not sure how it is possible to call a hypothetical situation "a bunch of baloney"? You're free to believe it won't happen, and even I think it won't happen, but facts have nothing to do with it.

Quoting beryllium (Reply 21):
Have respect for others' thoughts, too, before you claim that all what they are saying is "BS or pretty close".

Ok forget what I said before. I respect your opinions but I believe most of the ideas you've posted are wrong.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
25 FRNT787 : You ignored the rest of my post as well. In no way does ordering a proper amount of aircraft to replace your fleet constitute a "business" airline. J
26 PlanePainter : Let's hope so! But I am staying out of that conversation for now LOL!
27 mariner : Wise man. LOL. But I have never seen one out of the paint shop without a tail before. What is it - ten days or two weeks to delivery from this point?
28 Post contains images AirframeAS : I wonder what tail this one will be.... Hmmm.... I'm betting that is coming later. YX killed themselves before RW came along. Did anyone notice the g
29 FL787 : He was talking about my hypothetical MKE schedule. I've since edited my post to add RDU. IMO, it was a whole series of events that ended with FL basi
30 norcal : The stencil slipped?
31 mariner : It's interesting. If you hold your cursor over the R, a note from the photographer appears. He says it is correctly painted on the other side. So he
32 PlanePainter : Glad you caught that too, I thought my old age was showing. Now I feel better.
33 beryllium : That's oversimplification. I did not say that they "automatically" have to choose Midwest as a name. I was saying that Midwest name is more associate
34 alphascan : If at first you don't succeed..... Go ALO!
35 JA : Sometimes, rivals develop a respect for the guys they battle. Ask AA and B6.
36 beryllium : AA and B6 joined to fight against DL in New York - very important hub for all three. If FL marries RAH it would be for a fight against WN in MKE. I d
37 mariner : What fight against Southwest in MKE? In a previous thread, you proposed that Southwest does not care about MKE and is leaving the battle against Repu
38 beryllium : Ummm.... that was actually not me who proposed that, and instead of insinuating, you might wanna check who said what over there... Actually, I can do
39 mariner : You might want to check. When I posted that Southwest was dropping two frequencies at MKE, you told me it was because they were leaving the fight to
40 beryllium : Can't remember. Show me... It cares. But MKE is not in the list of top priorities for WN...
41 mariner : I'm told you before, I'm not going to do your research for you. I spend far too much of my time disproving negatives here. And since you said you agr
42 beryllium : Exactly. It makes no sense to look for a black cat in a dark room... especially when the cat is not there... When you claim that someone said somethi
43 mariner : Either you agree with JA - as you said in post #38 - or you don't. Which is it? mariner
44 beryllium : I agree with JA that WN is watching how FL and RAH fight in MKE, and for now WN has no intentions to escalate anything in that market.
45 mariner : So - if they don't plan to escalate and are cutting frequencies - how is it a fight? Most of all, how is it important enough to cause Airtran to join
46 YXwatcherMkE : WOW! I totally missed that! But will it be done and in MKE for the Big announcement? If the name was going to be YX then why would BB taken apart the
47 beryllium : It's a fight for FL and RAH - it is the hub for both. For WN, MKE is nothing more but just one of the cities... somewhat of secondary or maybe even t
48 mariner : Then we are agreed. No, you said: If there is no fight, then there would have to be other reasons for any combo of Republic and Airtran. Dominance at
49 beryllium : Again, that would be a fight for FL/RAH (from their standpoint), because they see WN as a threat there. WN would not consider it as a big deal, becau
50 mariner : One mo' time - if Southwest is not going to escalate at MKE and if they are cutting frequencies, how are they a threat? And I have no idea why you ke
51 beryllium : For now Southwest is not going to escalate (they are focused on other things nowadays)... but they might, eventually. That's how they can be seen as
52 mariner : Sure, they might one day, I suppose. Or not, as the case may be. There's a school of thought which says that if Southwest had waited four or five wee
53 beryllium : I don't think they regret it too much. I am not playing any DEN card. I don't know why all what is DEN and F9 ticks you off so much, but I just menti
54 Post contains images mariner : LOL. It amuses me how try to turn things around. It's like when you play the "oid" card. I will - happily - discuss Southwest at DEN anytime in any a
55 bahadir : Heard some former Midwest guys are trying to get a PArt 125 certificate for some charter work and planning use this aircraft.
56 airportguy1971 : So if this A/C is not due to be delivered until mid-May, and the Branding announcment is due in 9 days, why would they bother with the F9 titles? Eve
57 AirframeAS : Charters are covered under 135.
58 airportguy1971 : And while I'm asking rhetorical questions... What would naming the new airline Midwest mean to any action taken against RAH by the former Flight crews
59 PlanesNTrains : I thought you said it was 99.9% certain it'd be Frontier? I disagree. I don't think it smacks of anything other than a convenience to both parties. F
60 F9Animal : Of course, BB's team might be smart in simply knowing that we at airliners.net are all over this stuff. And of course, certain members of the media f
61 beryllium : I said that if I were in Bedford's shoes I would definitely name it Frontier, because under RAH umbrella it is the most recognizable brand of them al
62 Post contains images Airport : Agreed. It's pretty amazing how stuff can get leaked from here. That said...as I said in the last thread (but got completely lost in the beryllium vs
63 beryllium : Keeping Frontier name and livery seems like an obvious (and logical) thing, isn't it? I thought from the very beginning that it was a no-brainer and
64 FRNT787 : I am still confused why you have complained so frequently about the time RAH has taken to create this brand. Jumping to "No-Brainer" conclusions as y
65 beryllium : MKE is a somewhat different story than DEN. Unlike in DEN (where they are cooked, and it is already beyond reasonable doubt), in MKE they have a bette
66 mariner : Your agenda is blinding you. You have no evidence that they were ever in any doubt as to what the eventual name would be. mariner
67 beryllium : That's you, Mariner, who has agenda and purpose here. I don't... If they have never been in any doubt, then it seems strange why it took them so long
68 FRNT787 : LOL. That is a leap as well. People were saying that years ago. People said that as soon as WN announced DEN service. F9 is still here. Now it is par
69 MostlyAir : Woah...hold up. There is more than just maintenance in Milwaukee. We still have marketing, rm, IT, pricing and a call center. Things are basically th
70 FRNT787 : I realize. Soon I would expect any duplicate jobs throughout the system being minimized (as it should be). It was in response to the idea that removi
71 YXwatcherMkE : I'm going to ask what some might think is a dumm question but what is "RM"?
72 MostlyAir : Ok, now I understand what you were getting at, thought you were throwing corporate function underneath a rug there. I don't see much downsizing going
73 kiwiandrew : My guess would be "Revenue Management"? But I am not sure .
74 Post contains links MostlyAir : You are correct. RM controls how many tickets are available at each price range. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yield_management for extra information.
75 Post contains links and images mariner : The photographer who took the shot of N206FR must read a.net. LOL. He has posted another photo, slightly closer, of N206FR - the other side - and his
76 Post contains links mke717spotter : I don't know if anybody has seen this or if its been discussed, but there was an article in the Denver Post the other day saying that the customer/emp
77 Post contains images lightsaber : Wow, much of this thread is on debate that adds little to the understanding of RAH or F9/MX, so I'm going to stay out of that discussion. What will ma
78 mariner : It's a pity that we still seem to be constantly fighting the same old battle. I think what is missing from much of the debate is this - there is no b
79 kingcavalier : I got an e-mail from a friend at F9 and she says March was a company record load factor for both F9 and YX. I guess we won't see monthly reports anymo
80 yx302 : Yup shes right. I read the same email today. I dont recall the exact number but the load factors system wide were in the 80's. The email also contain
81 JA : That's the biggest point made in probably any of these 9 threads. Fixing things is never easy or without controversy. Yet, many more swear they can d
82 FRNT787 : Bravo! This airline represents everything I love about the country I am blessed to live in. (I dare not claim it is the best, for I cannot be certain
83 lrdc9 : Bravo sir. You have wrapped up my feelings and expressed them in so perfect a way, which I could have certainly never mustered. Every bit of what you
84 Post contains images AirframeAS : I never got that email for some reason. With all due respect, I don't think RW has to honor anything. YX tanked on their own. And the YX 121 certific
85 Post contains links lrdc9 : I believe the YX work groups are in fact in on the negotiations. That is true per a Denver Post Article (Pilots for Frontier, other Republic units vi
86 enilria : I am also unbiased and uneducated on integration, but I come to the opposite conclusion. The certificate shouldn't make any difference. The NWA cert
87 Post contains images norcal : Yes they do, if it were up to Bedford he'd have nothing to do with the YX pilots. The last thing he wants is pilots with the experience and knowledge
88 kingcavalier : Airportguy - Why haven't we heard more about what's going on behind the scenes to integrate the YX pilots into the RAH group? It would seem that the Y
89 norcal : Check airlinepilotforums.com for the updates. There are several threads there about the integration and the ongoing 100 seat grievance (among many) f
90 norcal : It's hard to say, look to the Alleghany-Mohawk ruling for guidance.
91 kingcavalier : Thanks - I am still surprised the debate hasn't really spilled over on to here yet. Someone at F9 told me BB gave a crew update for F9 in his latest
92 Post contains links Amatiel : Sorry if this was posted before, but I did not see it. 'Delta terminating marketing relationship with Midwest' 'Delta Air Lines is terminating its mar
93 FRNT787 : If one seat is blocked (which it is the last I have seen), then it is a 99 seat aircraft. Not 100. RAH has 0 revenue potential on that 100th seat.
94 AirframeAS : Good point. I did not consider that. Thanks for pointing that out.
95 mariner : I don't involve myself in pilot issues, but I am always very impressed when people know what BB thinks or feels. I wish I was so lucky. mariner
96 mariner : Ah - it was discussed at some length in the previous thread. I didn't want you to think anyone was ignoring you or the subject. mariner
97 Amatiel : No problem. #8 went by in just a few days with quite a few posts in #9 as well. It is hard to keep up without devoting far too much time to an individ
98 mariner : Did it ever! LOL. I thought this one was going the same way, but we seem to be calming down a little. Thankfully. I'm running out of pics for the fir
99 Post contains images AirframeAS : It seems like N205FR has been flying in the dark (which was expected...) doing DEN-LAS runs, overnighting in LAS. You can use my pics from Aircraft 20
100 Post contains images mariner : Muchas gracias. The problem is that I try to find pics that add - in some weird way - a comment on the tone of the thread (the Midwest cookie in the
101 FRNT787 : In his latest letter, BB stated it would be used mainly as a spare aircraft throughout April. Apparently the company also has a plan to compensate pa
102 Post contains images AirframeAS : I'll talk to my manager and see if I can service 206 when it arrives like I got to with 205. I just have to do a bit of convincing, but I do owe the
103 norcal : There are 100 seats on the aircraft, it was management's decision to try and make one invisible. They are losing out on revenue because of their own
104 kingcavalier : I get the 1 seat removed to make it a 99 seat aircraft probably equals less pay. Correct? However, isn't it Bedford's legal right to fly the aircraft
105 kingcavalier : How does F9 play into the YX pilot integration? We are discussing a RW owned and operated 99-seat E190, but what about RAH's other subsidiary, F9? The
106 mariner : That's another (fairly condescending) assumption. I don't exactly have "zero" experience. I've been around pilots since I was twelve, I grew up with
107 Post contains images FRNT787 : True. I highly doubt the aircraft would make more money with that 100th seat, and the increased pay for the pilots. Thus it is a good business decisi
108 FL787 : I still find it strange they are going to have a crew base for a total of 13 flights; 4 of which are to DEN. It just seems unnecessary. Unless of cou
109 norcal : Because they didn't want to fly the E-190 at the low RAH rates, they thought their contract would protect them since it basically said, "All Midwest
110 norcal : But in the case of F9 (or any other carrier) they wouldn't renegotiate pay because they have a pay scale established for the A320. It saves a few buc
111 kingcavalier : Thanks for all of the info, but I did know about the seat. I've sat on the last row. Yes, the seat is there, but the seat belt has been removed and h
112 n7371f : Republic inherited the ownership on several MD-80's when it acquired Midwest assets (I believe it was 5 MD-80's). So minus the 4 or 5 MD-80's, the re
113 norcal : And for those wondering this is why there is a SLI From the RAH scope section: "Except as otherwise provided in this Agreement, all present and future
114 n7371f : The debate on here is interesting to follow...I've noticed some more heated conversations taking place recently. If this thread morphs into a debate o
115 norcal : And it looks like they will be given retro pay: "Upon final agreement, or issuance of the arbitrators decision, as the case may be, retroactive compen
116 norcal : I've seen a couple of those threads and yes there are vicious at times but it really is only one or two individuals making the most noise. That debat
117 mariner : Interesting that you see it that way. Since a fair number of posters in these threads are employed by the airlines in question, I would think they ha
118 norcal : 1. The vast majority of people here are not employed by airlines 2. I'm not sure how any of these airline employees would take offense to me saying t
119 mariner : But some of them are. I know that my inbox has never been so full of messages of unhappiness from employees about the situation here as it has been t
120 norcal : When you quote me I can only assume you are addressing me, and no I don't follow every part of these threads. They are far too long and there are far
121 mariner : Certainly. I was responding to your description of these threads and trying ( and obviously failing) to say why i disagreed with that assessment. The
122 sunking737 : On the topic of seats on a plane. WN does not fly the 737-800 as they would have to have a fourth F/A. SY has -800 and 4 F/A. So it could be a factor
123 lrdc9 : What is the rule? 1 for every 50? For what it's worth that website has a very different dynamic - lots of flamebaiting and the such. And some of it d
124 Post contains links mke717spotter : Might be a bit off-topic, but just a few hours ago a YX E190 flying MKE-DEN got out to the Iowa border before turning around and heading back to MKE.
125 MCI10 : Had something to do with the APU
126 MASTYC : It is one for every 50 so it would still be operated with 2 FAs. However, the RAH FA contract states the same as the pilot contract, that any aircraf
127 PlanesNTrains : To paraphrase Al Gore: "I guess it all depends on what the definition of 'is' is." -Dave
128 Post contains images bahadir : There is part 135 and 125 .. Look them up please.. y This was not done to improve the seat pitch.. The seat was deactivated w/out being removed.. to
129 mariner : According to both airline websites and Travelocity, OMA-MCO has been extended again. Originally announced as seasonal E190, it was supposed to end Apr
130 n7371f : Ummm...that was slick Willy himself, Bill Clinton. Given during his videotaped deposition in the Monica Lewinsky case.
131 PlanesNTrains : I'll take your word for it, as I was going off of my failing memory. Hopefully, the point stands... -Dave
132 RJ777 : Why don't they just go ahead and announce it as year round already? Come on!
133 RJ777 : Ya know, I just thought of something..... How about Republic shell out a bunch of (cookie) dough to US and buy the America West name?
134 mariner : Southwest's non-stop (Saturday) OMA-MCO ends on May 8, so maybe they want to see how things look without that competition. This takes them just past
135 rampart : Much as I liked America West as an airline and brand, there are several reasons the merged companies kept US Airways over America West. Regional name
136 Post contains images AirframeAS : The problem is that the former YX pilots are not even E-190 certified. And they never flew on the RW certificate. So if they want to work for RW, the
137 norcal : Not entirely correct. The seniority integration would determine their longevity as well. If they follow the Allegheny-Mohawk decision it would have b
138 norcal : It should also be noted that there are other portions of the A-M decision which are no longer enforced. I believe this one should still be enforced: "
139 n7371f : Isn't today when Lynx begins to come undone (sorry Duran Duran)? I know all 6 owned Q400's are removed this month and the Fargo and Tulsa service ende
140 Post contains images PVDCMHOZ : Here's hoping for some PVD service to MKE and/or MCI! Maybe a CMH-DEN flight as well
141 sunking737 : Here is an idea for the RJET Team... Take your 5 MD80's that are sitting around and put them back in service!!! Put them to work on DOD or sports char
142 FRNT787 : Whipping out the FARs...thats a good way to shut this thread down! HAHA Nothing tires me out like the FAR/AIM.
143 Airport : Actually I would really love to see PVD-DEN, and if they're going for routes with little-no competition, that might be a route to consider. PVD-MKE/M
144 AirframeAS : You're forgetting one thing: Break in service. They don't accrue seniority, I don't think, while they are laid off. So, they then would be new hires.
145 PVDCMHOZ : No, WN did not start PVD-DEN. I believe that this could be an untapped market. I used to work for UA in PVD, and there was talk about starting PVD-DEN
146 Post contains images mariner : E170's have started taking over some of the Lynx frequencies - more happen on the 19th. I am mildly surprised that RAP stays Q400 through the summer,
147 AirframeAS : The E170's do some of the Lynx routes, but the 19th is when the phase out thing begins..... I think ASE will remain Q400 through September.
148 norcal : Every pilot contract I've ever seen allows pilots to accrue seniority while on furlough, even RAH's: "A pilot who is furloughed will retain and conti
149 mariner : To this simple soul, it sure looks like the beginning of the phase out has begun. LOL. Yes, it will. The question is - as always - what happens after
150 AirframeAS : I'm just going by what the internal memos have said and also what BB has said in one of his weekly letters. Didn't they do a dry run on the E190 a mo
151 Post contains links mariner : According to the Denver Post it has begun. They started laying off Lynx staff. They've withdrawn 3 x Q400 from service. They've dropped two Lynx citi
152 AirframeAS : I would love BB to come up with some real, hard evidence supporting this. I have yet to see it. QX does well with their Q400s, that is why I am not c
153 FRNT787 : Many of the Horizon Q400s do not compete with jet service on their specific routes. (I fly them some from PRC-LAX). For Lynx, which has a higher perc
154 n7371f : ...and quite a bit of Horizon's Q400 fleet runs head-to-head with jets: SEA-GEG WN 737 SEA-BOI WN 737 SEA-RNO WN 737 SEA-YYC AC CRJ PDX-BOI WN 737 BO
155 Post contains images bjorn14 : If BB doesn't use the Frontier name, I'll buy it. I know a nice little airport about 75 mi. south of DEN that would make a nice little hub. I still li
156 Post contains images sunking737 : Here is a sneak peak at the new colors of the "NEW" FRONTIER AIRLINES....
157 Indy : I assume there is little to no chance that Republic would spend the money to buy the rights to a name like Eastern Airlines but it sure would make a g
158 MostlyAir : Actually I heard some news that confirms the reason for all the "1"s going around. It seems that we are going to be buying some 747-8s and renaming t
159 Post contains links mariner : March traffic report has been released. Branded consolidated loaf factor of 84%: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/rep...ic-2010-04-06?reflink=MW_news_
160 bjorn14 : Thanks, for the blast from the past. The older version does remind me a little of their current livery.
161 bjorn14 : I received some sage advice a long time ago...never tell anyone what you're going to name your child because everybody will say you can't name them th
162 Airport : For what its worth, my Dad is a Portland-based CRJ-700 captain that lives in Boise, so he very frequently commutes on BOI-SEA/PDX between the Q400s a
163 n7371f : Yep...Horizon/Alaska has certainly driven Southwest to reduce its inter-northwest presence since it acquired Morris Air. At one point Southwest was r
164 Post contains images bjorn14 : Is that how hard you work, Mariner?
165 RJ777 : Could that actually happen? I mean call an airline "Air Force 1"?
166 n7371f : Love seeing the planes of the old Frontier, especially the Saul Bass designed look which Frontier used until it's demise. Bold, clean looking plane.
167 airportguy1971 : I've heard it's 1st Choice Airlines. The 1st choice of Airlines for people who don't like Airlines.[Edited 2010-04-06 16:11:37]
168 Post contains images mariner : Believe me. LOL. I wasn't paying a lot of attention this morning. Our tiny province has been suffering from the longest drought in recorded (that is
169 Post contains images lrdc9 : This is what I thought - I had a (vague) memory of talking with a RAH F/A who was b****ing about only having two F/As for 100 pax. I don;t think they
170 n7371f : Let me see if I can clarify... When Continental acquired the Frontier assets, Frontier was shut down and operating in Chapter 11 with a skeleton staf
171 mariner : Thanks, that part all makes sense to me. I understand keeping the name separate in any circumstances. We're seeing it now. I believe the Frontier nam
172 F9Animal : Speaking of oldies, any word on what happened with the new Eastern?
173 Indy : Just out of curiosity would any YX or F9 supporters object to being re-branded to Eastern Airlines?
174 lrdc9 : I would. Why ditch a decent, well liked brand, for something old, a region not relevant at all to the airline, a brand with a bitter history, and lon
175 norcal : Longevity is how much you are paid, seniority is where you stack up on the list. E.g. If I have been working with a company for 4 years and I am furl
176 lrdc9 : Thank you. This is pretty much what I figured it was after I mulled on it a bit. For curiosity's sake, does anyone know which airlines do both?
177 rampart : Yes. Why Eastern?? It makes no sense, historically or regionally. Why not conjur up Western, or Central (absorbed by Frontier 1.0), ...or even North
178 RJ777 : I got a better idea..... bring back ATA.......
179 lrdc9 : Even better - Republic.
180 Post contains images AirframeAS : And history is repeating itself, it seems like.... but this time it's F9. As a F9 employee, I would object. Why would you want to re-open those wound
181 Post contains images bahadir : Thank you.. A lot of people miss the fact that it's not just 11 airplanes. It's a complete Part 121 cert.. Different training program, additional peo
182 F9Animal : LOL! Guess I touched on a touchy subject! I thought I would change the topic a little, to help buy some time till we get the word! Wish they would ju
183 Post contains images Airport : I know it's rather unimportant as this probably affects nobody here, but... I have an interview with F9 today for a customer service agent position he
184 Indy : For the traveling public I don't believe Eastern was a bad name.
185 Post contains images dfanucci : Good Luck! Just out of curiosity, are you guys getting the flood of WN news regarding GEG down there? WN is getting some serious butt-kicking in the
186 Post contains images MostlyAir : Glad to see you got that interview that you wanted. Good Luck! I wish I could put in a good word but I don't think any words that I put in would trav
187 F9Animal : Good luck! Smile, be yourself, and show them you really want the job.
188 USPIT10L : Good luck and hopefully, welcome to the F9 family! I agree, just show your passion for the position and the airlines business and you'll get in, hand
189 Post contains images AirframeAS : It is not about the name. It is about what happened to the airline and how it was killed. There are still a lot of ex-EA folks out there working in t
190 goDIA : Somebody explain something to me, please... Does the fact that Bedford is making the announcement in Milwaukee and sending underlings to Indy and Denv
191 Post contains images lrdc9 : Probably . I wouldn't put too much weight in who is going where. If I were BB if I didn't want to be in the same place as the man in charge of brandi
192 Post contains images mariner : It could mean either. Some believe as you do. It could mean exactly the reverse. If it isn't Frontier there will be a small nuclear war in Denver - p
193 NZblue : This is speculation from an F9 first officer, taken from this particular FO's facebook page: "Okay, here's my speculation......I think Bedford is in M
194 Post contains images MostlyAir : Glad to see that somebody else bit into my theory.
195 mariner : Hmmmm? N206FR is due for delivery "soon" - within the next week or ten days. It is making its proving runs, pre-delivery tests, now. That's why the s
196 goDIA : I am not sure whether or not my theory is correct...it's just a gut feeling. But Mariner could be right...and BB decided to go to the place whose bran
197 Post contains images mariner : I think they would be stupid if they were not aware of it, and I don't think they are stupid, very far from it. But there is more to it than where BB
198 lrdc9 : Ahh My apologies. Got myself a bit confuzzled. I did mean the one coming up for delivery - sans critter. Still - due for delivery after announcement
199 norcal : I heard a rumor that they'll be keeping F9 but doing away with the critters (eventually when the A320s go in for scheduled repaints) because they don'
200 Post contains links mariner : N205FR was first seen at Toulouse on March 24, in full livery with tail (Ozzie). That doesn't mean it was its first day out of the paint shop - simpl
201 MostlyAir : I don't believe the tails are the expensive part because these are just panels that are layered over each other to create the animal image. If one of
202 Post contains links and images mariner : I think the critters look grand on the smaller aircraft - some of my favorites are on the E170's: View Large View MediumPhoto © John E. Jauchler - N
203 rampart : I'll tell you, I was surprised as heck to see F9-style decal tails on Great Lakes B1900s last weekend in DEN. I didn't know they were doing that. Is
204 norcal : I agree that they look great. I just want to make it clear to everyone reading the thread that it is a rumor
205 Post contains images mariner : LOL. That's true, there are some fairly wild rumors out there - and some conspiracy theories. The latest to reach me is that tail of N206FR will be l
206 dfanucci : I was wondering this exact thing. Seeing that N205 had the seatback TV's in place it would appear(?) as if the Airbi TV might continue on, but I wond
207 Post contains images dfanucci : Yup. They are going to reveal the new Tail stateside. In keeping with BB's want for a new airline and not wanting to move away from the critters, all
208 MostlyAir : Frontier does have a codeshare with Great Lakes (ZK) which will probably carry over during the integration. However, I don't think the animals on the
209 Post contains images mariner : Frontier retains the rights to use all the photos and some have been recycled. If they do keep the name Frontier, and if they still use the critters
210 Post contains links and images ERJ : I don't have much stock in that rumor. The animals don't look as nice as they do on the E-Jets, but I'm sure they can make them fit on the ERJ's. Vie
211 SANFan : Oh we'll all just go back to the old standards, like "When will NW, errr... DL, get rid of the old DC-9s?", or "Is A or B the better airplane builder
212 n7371f : If true, then I would expect the tail to be a Badger - or another animal unique to Wisconsin (although I can only think of a badger). Maybe they'll n
213 Post contains images AirframeAS : My question to you is why does Bedford have to be in DEN if the name will remain Frontier?? He may be in MKE to soothe the pain if the Midwest name i
214 Post contains images USPIT10L : I agree wholeheartedly. I was hired F9 in November 2009, even though the rest of my station (PIT) was all YX. If they change the brand completely, I
215 AirframeAS : That would be so cool! You'd be pretty well known in the company like I am. And to add, as long as we are profitable, I'm all good. I could care less
216 sunking737 : AirframeAS you are so right, who cares what the name is, as long as people fly and your pay check clears the bank. Besides I would rather be at F9 rig
217 MostlyAir : Sorry, wrong choice of words. I was trying to go off what I believe you said a long time ago. The ironic thing is that Wisconsin doesn't have many ba
218 Post contains images Airport : Thank you! Hmm, I hadn't seen anything in the news here, Boise's news outlets seem pretty quiet when it comes to aviation news. That's interesting th
219 Post contains images Crosscheck007 : Oh my god, we students here at UWM would love that!!! Even better would be a retro throwback logo-jet with "F*ck 'Em Bucky" in billboard titles acros
220 Post contains images AirframeAS : Aw, shush! Wait until you actually meet me, I'm not exactly a class act. LOL! I can be a pain sometimes.
221 Post contains images mariner : The badger makes sense, but there are others. I believe (?) the state bird is the American (red-breasted) robin, which is really cute. There's also a
222 F9Animal : F9 was by far one of my favorite airlines to work for. Just the greatest group of folks to work with.
223 Post contains images AirframeAS : I wished you were still with us, that way I could have met you for real. The people I work with at F9, are one of the brightest and smartest folks in
224 UAL727NE : So what time is the BIG shindig going on at DEN? I'll be connecting in DEN Tues. afternoon. Also I'm coming on in Lynx and I know they are down at the
225 AirframeAS : They are all over the A concourse from what I understand. I will be working but not servicing the Airbuses so I am inside, at our Catering facility.
226 boydatageek : If its goingto be Bucky on the tail ... It had better be the real bucky, not some cute National Geographic photo. As far as getting UW OK. That doesn
227 kiwiandrew : I hope that decal was applied after delivery . If it had been applied before the aircraft left Canada it might never have made it to DEN without bein
228 UAL727NE : Thanks Airframe!!!! To bad you couldn't head up to A Concourse, I'd like to meet ya! Oh man I can't wait, it's been to long since i've flown and I wan
229 Post contains links n7371f : Somebody else is also thinking about a badger on a Frontier tail: http://www.cardatabase.net/modifieda...earch/photo_search.php?id=00010234
230 Post contains images AirframeAS : You'll have to ask my manager. LOL!
231 UAL727NE : True. I only have an hr. and 20min layover so It's not like i'd have a whole lot of time lol. So what time is the unvealing? MT?
232 AirframeAS : To my understanding, 10am MST, approximately. And I am attending to the event at Coors Field, if I have not mentioned that already.
233 UAL727NE : Oh dang it. I'll be just getting to the Airport in SLC when it happens.
234 Post contains links MostlyAir : Looks pretty sweet, but the wrong badger. That's the European version the American version looks different. http://wc-zope.emergence.com:8080/Wi...l2
235 rampart : Me, I'm going to attempt a good night's rest. Too many late hours on A.net. That, and airline manager. -Rampart
236 Post contains links mariner : There's a widely held Conventional Wisdom (CW) out there that Republic's legacy partners are furious that Republic is starting branded operations in c
237 lrdc9 : Indeed. I think you've really struck gold here as to why the majors aren't trying to destroy RAH. They are helping in a sense. Helping keep WN out of
238 AirframeAS : Do you remember how you were saying that Southwest returning to DEN is probably the best thing that has ever happened to F9? Well, put it this way: R
239 JA : It's clear that almost everyone wants to check Southwest. Being #1 in domestic passengers with over 500 planes gets you noticed.
240 mariner : I remember that - and the ruckus that it caused. LOL. And, despite everything that has happened, I stick by it. Moving on to the combined route map,
241 Daus : Yes, that was NWA's reason for dumping to Republic, avoiding the embarrassment of another bankruptcy (post WAMU) was TPG's.
242 Post contains images Daus : The quote I've used in the past is that RAH is the Northern Alliance to Delta's US Army. Proxy warriors.
243 PlanesNTrains : If so, it seems somewhat like reality tv, airline style. "This week", the other carriers are "voting Southwest off." But at some point the attention
244 F9Animal : The airlines are learning how to live with WN in their backyard. WN's only real threat is against itself.
245 mariner : I don't think it is just "this week." I think it has been the elephant in the room for some time. I don't know that Republic will be that big, at lea
246 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : I agree in reference to their branded ops, but I was surprised in looking at the RAH March RPM's that they were as strong as big as they are. There i
247 mariner : Nor I. My point was to show that I think the CW may not be as accurate as some claim. One thing is clear to me - BB is playing a long game, but I don
248 Post contains links mariner : We're almost at 250 posts and obviously this thread isn't going to last until next week,so I've started a new one: New Frontier/Midwest #10 (by marine
249 kingcavalier : From wikipedia - That's some valuable assets.
250 sunking737 : I think that the airline industry is a poker game of shorts. Some of the deals BB has made will help in the long run. Financial or strategical I'm not
251 Post contains links SA7700 : This part of the series will be locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion here: New Frontier/Midwest #10 Please n
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
New Frontier/Midwest #7 posted Tue Mar 23 2010 23:50:59 by mariner
New Frontier/Midwest #6 posted Sun Mar 14 2010 00:54:29 by mariner
New Frontier/Midwest #5 posted Mon Mar 1 2010 06:41:01 by mariner
New Frontier Midwest - #3 posted Fri Feb 12 2010 14:55:33 by mariner
New Frontier/Midwest - #2 posted Wed Jan 27 2010 12:02:59 by Mariner
The New Frontier/Midwest posted Tue Jan 19 2010 12:47:36 by Mariner
Decision On Frontier/Midwest Branding Soon posted Tue Mar 2 2010 05:35:44 by Seatback
A New Frontier: F9 To PHF! Hampton Roads - Denver posted Mon Feb 22 2010 17:55:50 by StarAlliance38
Frontier/Midwest - #4 posted Sun Feb 21 2010 18:29:04 by mariner
The Frontier/Midwest Thread posted Sun Dec 27 2009 10:04:11 by Mariner
New Frontier/Midwest #5 posted Mon Mar 1 2010 06:41:01 by mariner
New Frontier Midwest - #3 posted Fri Feb 12 2010 14:55:33 by mariner
New Frontier/Midwest - #2 posted Wed Jan 27 2010 12:02:59 by Mariner
The New Frontier/Midwest posted Tue Jan 19 2010 12:47:36 by Mariner
Decision On Frontier/Midwest Branding Soon posted Tue Mar 2 2010 05:35:44 by Seatback
A New Frontier: F9 To PHF! Hampton Roads - Denver posted Mon Feb 22 2010 17:55:50 by StarAlliance38
Frontier/Midwest - #4 posted Sun Feb 21 2010 18:29:04 by mariner