Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
United, Republic, And The C Series  
User currently offlineGymClassHero From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 70 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7512 times:

Given Republic's ordering of 80 C Series aircraft, United's interest in said aircraft, and their habit of codesharing rather than buying new aircraft when they retire them, does anyone else have a sneaking suspicion that most of those Republic jets will be sporting United colors when they arrive?

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinesunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2057 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7447 times:

NO! They ordered the plane for F9/YX/Republic airlines operations, not for contract flying. See any of the New Frontier/Midwest threads. They are now on #9.


Just an MSPAVGEEK
User currently offlineairfrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2827 posts, RR: 42
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7433 times:

Quoting GymClassHero (Thread starter):
Given Republic's ordering of 80 C Series aircraft, United's interest in said aircraft, and their habit of codesharing rather than buying new aircraft when they retire them, does anyone else have a sneaking suspicion that most of those Republic jets will be sporting United colors when they arrive?


No, I believe that Republic has stated that the planes are for their "branded operations."
Ie, frontier and midwest


User currently offlineGymClassHero From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7411 times:

I've been gone a while, so I guess I missed that, woops.

Though it wouldn't surprise me if United was seeking codesharing to replace 737s rather than actually buying/operating their own aircraft.

[Edited 2010-04-03 19:49:53]

User currently offlineFRNT787 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1328 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7401 times:

Quoting airfrnt (Reply 2):
No, I believe that Republic has stated that the planes are for their "branded operations."
Ie, frontier and midwest

Indeed they are, in addition, I doubt the UA scopes would allow this. RAH ordered the C300, seating 138 passengers (in the F9 config.)



"We have a right to fail, because failure makes us grow" --Glenn Beck
User currently offlinedoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3434 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7401 times:

Might they be involved in a code share with UAL? Maybe (I doubt it, but have no Crystal ball).

I would have a VERY difficult time seeing how they could show up with UAL paint flown by Republic crews.



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6085 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7401 times:

United is looking at the C series and E190/5 as backfill for the 737 fleet but from what has been leaked they plan on flying them as mainline aircraft.


Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1396 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7302 times:

You come up with a good scenario on how to get the UA pilots agree to this - and then I will think about your scenario.

Current scope clause is 70 seats - so lots of CR7s, but no CR9s. CS130s are way over the line.


User currently offlineYXwatcherMkE From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1019 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7169 times:

A friend of mine works for UA said that UA is very seriously looking at the C300 for the 737 replacement. If they do go with the C300 they will be doing some short term leasing of some A319's until they can get the multiple C300's in operation. He believes to see an announcement in Q3 2010.


I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
User currently offlinehiflyer From United States of America, joined exactly 10 years ago today! , 2177 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6887 times:

Republic may be on difficult footing as far as running as codeshares for the majors down the road with the restrictions in the various carrier's scope agreements with their respective pilot unions regarding contract carriers doing rj work now flying mainline. A lot is going to depend on how the pilot integration of the various seniority lists is done at RAH in the next year....which could mean ALPA vs ALPA....whoooeee.  

User currently offlineF9FA37 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6530 times:

Quoting FRNT787 (Reply 4):
Indeed they are, in addition, I doubt the UA scopes would allow this. RAH ordered the C300, seating 138 passengers (in the F9 config.)

That is what we heard. 138? I thought 136.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13430 posts, RR: 100
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5771 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting GymClassHero (Thread starter):
United's interest in said aircraft

Do you have a link? I'm very excited about the C-series, but what I've read of UA's interest seems to be more for the art of negotiating with A&B than real interest. Please UA, prove me wrong!

Quoting F9FA37 (Reply 10):
That is what we heard. 138? I thought 136.

Mighty close to a WN 73G.   

Quoting YXwatcherMkE (Reply 8):
A friend of mine works for UA said that UA is very seriously looking at the C300 for the 737 replacement. If they do go with the C300 they will be doing some short term leasing of some A319's until they can get the multiple C300's in operation. He believes to see an announcement in Q3 2010.

If true, that would rock Boeing's and Airbus' world. It would be the first significant defection. (LZ was significant, but not at that volume level.) And yes, I'm well aware of UA's financial situation... (with implications for another thread).

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineDC8FanJet From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5734 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 11):
And yes, I'm well aware of UA's financial situation

Considering how much UA's "financial" situation has improved, isn't it time to drop this tired line that folks on A-net keep running out. United is doing fine, and is capable of ordering (and paying for) whatever aircraft they decide they need.


User currently offlineFRNT787 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1328 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5462 times:

Quoting F9FA37 (Reply 10):
That is what we heard. 138? I thought 136.

It is indeed 138. That includes 25 STRETCH seats. http://rjet.com/pdf/C%20Series.pdf

The A319s are 136.



"We have a right to fail, because failure makes us grow" --Glenn Beck
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6085 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5324 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 11):
Quoting GymClassHero (Thread starter):
United's interest in said aircraft

Do you have a link? I'm very excited about the C-series, but what I've read of UA's interest seems to be more for the art of negotiating with A&B than real interest. Please UA, prove me wrong!

What has been rumored is that UA is looking at placing two orders one for a 757 replacement (739ER vs 321) and the other to backfill some of the capacity that retiring the 737 fleet took out of the system as well as for growth. As WYwatcher mentioned part of an E190/195 or C-300 order would include some 319/320s leased in for growth in the short term.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aJ8bLXvUiEBU

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBFA00099720091209

Quoting DC8FanJet (Reply 12):
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 11):
And yes, I'm well aware of UA's financial situation

Considering how much UA's "financial" situation has improved, isn't it time to drop this tired line that folks on A-net keep running out. United is doing fine, and is capable of ordering (and paying for) whatever aircraft they decide they need.

I'm not sure that lightsaber meant anything negative by the comment but to echo DC8s comments UA has one of the best cash positions of any of the legacies right now and is expected to post a profit (as always wall Street makes those predictions excluding special items) this year and next. UA can easily afford to place this order...

[Edited 2010-04-04 11:15:54]


Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineYXwatcherMkE From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1019 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4551 times:

Quoting DC8FanJet (Reply 12):
Considering how much UA's "financial" situation has improved, isn't it time to drop this tired line that folks on A-net keep running out. United is doing fine, and is capable of ordering (and paying for) whatever aircraft they decide they need.

Not to jump on the band wagon that UA money problems are in the tank but they are not in the tank.
Also I just taked to my friend that works for UA and he stated that the main reason why they are looking at the C300 or the E195 was the CASM. Both A/C just make sence for the route the routes the older 737's were operating. Also the two a/c are just darn lighter than the smallest 737 Boeing is currently making or the either airbus A318/319. As for B and the 737 production line it would take longer for B to deliver them due to the current backlog than waiting for the C300 to go into service. FYI, His words not mine.



I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13430 posts, RR: 100
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3836 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting DC8FanJet (Reply 12):
Considering how much UA's "financial" situation has improved,

Improved is break even on free cash flow. I think they are off 'death watch' list, but that doesn't make UA a strong buyer for new airframes:
http://ir.united.com/phoenix.zhtml?c...3680&p=irol-newsArticle&id=1379514

But what matters is UA's ability to borrow on new lower CASM aircraft. I would love for them to order the C-series, but I do wonder if their looking is due to the need for financing. I do not argue that United hasn't built up cash, but they have a 'B-' bond rating last I looked. Far below the BBB- required for easy financing at reasonable interest rates.

There is no malice in my statements, but we are in a credit crunch. So UA must be 'creative' when negotiating.

Quoting United1 (Reply 14):

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aJ8bLXvUiEBU

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSB...91209

Thank you. For the links. From what I can tell, UA is inviting bids from four airframers. Whatever they buy will be a good deal.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3686 times:

Common guys you need to pay more attention to what the OP posted. He is asking about a CODESHARE not prorate flying. What is very interesting about that is that Bryan Bedford has always stated that each airline under the RAH umbrella has its place, Shuttle America is the 70-76 pax lift, Republic takes care of the 76-100 seat lift, and he said they are working on "knitting these airlines together and reducing out spending to become the most efficient provider of Airbus and Embraer capacity in North America."

So the question becomes is Frontier/NewAir positioning itself to provide heavy lift but do so by use of code share as to avoid scope? When he talks about being the most efficient provider of Airbus (Now C-Series) capacity is he talking about providing this capacity to other airlines or efficient capacity for their own branded operation? The way that he said that just sounded very interesting to me, like he was going to use the Airbus (now C) for CPA type lift.....?

Quoting YXwatcherMkE (Reply 8):
A friend of mine works for UA said that UA is very seriously looking at the C300 for the 737 replacement. If they do go with the C300 they will be doing some short term leasing of some A319's until they can get the multiple C300's in operation. He believes to see an announcement in Q3 2010.

Your friend is not completely correct. I would not look for United to lease something that they do not plan on keeping in their fleet for some time. I just don't think that its reasonable to expect UA to lease 319's short term if they decide on another type of aircraft.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 11):
And yes, I'm well aware of UA's financial situation... (with implications for another thread).

You seem to know something that the rest of us do not, can you please tell us more about how bad the financial situation is at United? Most other people who can look at financial information and get an idea of what is going on think that United is about as strong as the rest of the industry. Educate us.....



/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6085 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3187 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 16):
but they have a 'B-' bond rating last I looked. Far below the BBB- required for easy financing at reasonable interest rates.

Aircraft are actually pretty easy to finance/lease simply because new aircraft are fairly easy repo and to place with another carrier should any default happen. From everything that has been written UA got a fantastic deal form both Airbus and Boeing with their widebody order there is no reason to suspect that this order would be any different. Also the last time I took a look UAs credit rating was the basically the same as their peers in the industry so why would UA have any issue financing anything they wanted to purchase ie if another airline can do it with either a worse financial picture or pretty much equal to UAs why would there be an issue?

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 16):
So UA must be 'creative' when negotiating.

Oh absolutely that was even part of the bid package when UA started shopping around...every airline and manufacturer right now is being creative when it comes to financing. That also is not something that is unique to the aviation industry...



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
United Airlines And The 727? posted Sat Oct 16 2004 20:36:29 by Aa777jr
Shuttle America And The Republic Airways Group:? posted Tue May 26 2009 15:26:21 by TodaReisinger
US Airways And The Bombardier C Series? posted Thu Jan 15 2009 19:50:04 by 747400sp
Flights Between The United Kingdom And Ireland posted Sun Mar 30 2008 14:22:51 by BA
Southwest And The Bombardier's C-Series posted Sat Nov 24 2007 22:10:36 by Cloudy
United: The Vision And The Plan Pt III posted Fri Sep 9 2005 03:03:25 by Baw716
United And The MD-11? posted Mon Jun 16 2003 17:06:02 by CF-CPI
The Unlucky Dornier 328-100 And -300 Series posted Sat Mar 1 2003 18:43:36 by Flying-Tiger
United And The 737NG posted Wed Feb 28 2001 15:03:58 by Highliner2
YXU And The Jetways posted Mon Mar 29 2010 00:52:30 by brilondon