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DL Downgrades CCS To 757 - Again!  
User currently offline797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 28
Posted (4 years 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 11715 times:

Hi everyone,

So after all the excitement for the supposed change DL had done from 767-400 to A330, now the schedules are showing a downgrade to 767-300 on the date the A330 was supposed to step in (June 02). Moreover, starting July 01, they will send the 757.

Seems like the devaluation is finally striking the Venezuelan routes for the big carriers.

AF, DL, LH, and IB have downgraded their planes to what's supposed to be high season on a more normal scenario. AF the most significant one, downgrading from their daily 744.

Here's the changes so far from DL:

DL 192 CCS-ATL
06/02/10 8:01 AM
06/02/10 1:01 PM
767

DL 589 ATL-CCS
07/01/10 5:25 PM
07/01/10 9:25 PM
757

Any thoughts?

797


Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineburnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7504 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 11446 times:

They have switched to using the A332 to a different route in the southern hemisphere.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3163 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 11371 times:

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 1):
They have switched to using the A332 to a different route in the southern hemisphere.

Africa requires two aircraft on the rotation - CCS only one.  

DL loves to over-schedule their aircraft sub-fleets and then fix it later - 75V / 75J and A332 seem the most common offenders these days.



A340-500: 4 engines 4 long haul. 777-200LR: 2 engines 4 longer haul
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16958 posts, RR: 48
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 11329 times:

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 1):
They have switched to using the A332 to a different route in the southern hemisphere.

....being?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineburnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7504 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 11303 times:

See above, the actual destination should be identified towards the end of the week.

[Edited 2010-04-05 15:32:42]


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3163 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 11254 times:

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 4):
See above, the actual destination should be identified towards the end of the week.

I believe 10APR is the official release date



A340-500: 4 engines 4 long haul. 777-200LR: 2 engines 4 longer haul
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5225 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 11223 times:

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 5):
I believe 10APR is the official release date
Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 4):
See above, the actual destination should be identified towards the end of the week.

So are we talking a new destination? Or simply upgrading an existing destination? Are you guys at liberty to say?



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offline797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 28
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 11061 times:

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 2):
Africa requires two aircraft on the rotation - CCS only one.

Understood,

Big downgrade, though. Consider the type of plane, what it's got to offer, the IFE, the spacious cabin... those 757s are cramped and in pretty bad shape (at least the ones I've flown in).

Plus, like I said, buying a ticket from CCS to ATL with the new devaluation of the currency costs the Venezuelan passenger the equivalent to a 5-month minimum wage... it's getting quite ridiculous at this point



Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
User currently offlinecayman From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 905 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10912 times:

Quoting 797 (Reply 7):
Plus, like I said, buying a ticket from CCS to ATL with the new devaluation of the currency costs the Venezuelan passenger the equivalent to a 5-month minimum wage... it's getting quite ridiculous at this point

It will be really interesting to see how much the devaluation affects the peak summer travel season this year, especially in August.


User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3277 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10892 times:

Quoting cayman (Reply 8):
It will be really interesting to see how much the devaluation affects the peak summer travel season this year, especially in August.

You've got that, plus Chavez giving the business travelers plenty of reason not to invest in the country. The aircraft are simply matching the reduced demand. VFR traffic isn't enough to sustain most markets.


User currently offlineCivilav From Mexico, joined Oct 2004, 391 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10866 times:

Quoting 797 (Reply 7):
Big downgrade

Yes Enrique,

As you say. The devaluation plus the more restrictive foreign currency allowances are having a big bite finally.
At one point during April and throughout May, the 3 Panama-Caracas flight by Copa is downgraded to Embraer E-190 equipment for example.
At this time last year and the one before last, you would be very lucky to be able to find tickets to Miami for mid July. Now, the system (I use Sabre here at my travel agency in Cancun), there are as many as you want in every single one of the 6 daily flights on offer. Prices, though, are ridiculously expensive even in US dollar terms, let alone local currency !
The cheapest non-stop seat I could find is a hefty USD 960 return with taxes for barely a 3-hour flight.

All you can expect this year in Venezuela's international air traffic numbers is "shrinkage" I am afraid.


User currently onlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10734 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting 797 (Thread starter):
So after all the excitement for the supposed change DL had done from 767-400 to A330, now the schedules are showing a downgrade to 767-300 on the date the A330 was supposed to step in (June 02). Moreover, starting July 01, they will send the 757.

Seems that advance reservations do not respond in the way they expected. As explained, fleet management is like capital allocation, you have to look where it got better results.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinepeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1414 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10615 times:

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 5):
Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 4):
See above, the actual destination should be identified towards the end of the week.

I believe 10APR is the official release date

LOL. Is this the long awaited mystery route from Hawaii??? So it's gonna be Hawaii to...Africa (south of the equator)??? Wow.   



Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently offline797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10308 times:

Quoting cayman (Reply 8):
It will be really interesting to see how much the devaluation affects the peak summer travel season this year, especially in August.

Yes. Quite scary to be honest, though. I haven't seen Venezuela so bad for my whole life. Things are not good at all, and now with these ridiculous prices, even aviation is going to become something prohibitive as well. Even domestic flights (which are famous for being relatively cheap) are through the roof... What's to happen? Who knows...

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 9):
You've got that, plus Chavez giving the business travelers plenty of reason not to invest in the country. The aircraft are simply matching the reduced demand. VFR traffic isn't enough to sustain most markets.

Only the Russians with all the guns and nuclear stuff they're giving to Chavez are interested in putting money in Venezuela.

I hear the only market that's working pretty well is the Business Class market between Venezuela and US - as for all the family heads who have their families up in the States... but as for leisure passengers, things aren't looking so good.



Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9084 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10258 times:

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 5):
I believe 10APR is the official release date

yes it is.
good bit of changes comes on this date.  
Quoting OA412 (Reply 6):
Are you guys at liberty to say?

No.

Quoting peanuts (Reply 12):
LOL. Is this the long awaited mystery route from Hawaii??? So it's gonna be Hawaii to...Africa (south of the equator)??? Wow.

on a 332 no less.   

Quoting 797 (Thread starter):
So after all the excitement for the supposed change DL had done from 767-400 to A330, now the schedules are showing a downgrade to 767-300 on the date the A330 was supposed to step in (June 02). Moreover, starting July 01, they will send the 757.

hey at least its a 75X.   



yep.
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16958 posts, RR: 48
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 10159 times:

Quoting OA412 (Reply 6):
So are we talking a new destination?

Not likely for a JUN10 start!



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9993 times:

This is really mortifiyng. I mean, we're talking about 30% seat reductions for this summer to CCS? Another fact is that US frequencies have remained forzen for a long time so if things were going they way they should, planes should be up to the gills.

Another example of this is Avianca, who, having a monopoly on the historically busy BOG-CCS route, might be downgrading frequency to 3x a day form the current 4x, when at one point they were flying up to 6x daily in competition with Aeropostal.

Sad news. My solidary thoughts to our neighbors.

[Edited 2010-04-05 20:25:26]

User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9835 times:

It's not south of the equator...


The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlinepqdtw From Netherlands, joined Aug 2008, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9815 times:

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 1):
They have switched to using the A332 to a different route in the southern hemisphere.

[quote=Evan767,reply=17]
It's not south of the equator...

Evan is correct. It is not south of the equator! Just a little above, but not too much!

[Edited 2010-04-05 22:00:25]

User currently offlineFlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7379 posts, RR: 57
Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9696 times:

Quoting 797 (Thread starter):
AF the most significant one, downgrading from their daily 744.

Because of the economical crisis, the devaluation of the "Bolivar" in January and the drop of demand,
AF went from a Daily B744 to a mix of B744/A343 and now A343/A332 on CDG-CCS.

I guess same reasons apply for DL ...


User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5225 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9640 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
Not likely for a JUN10 start!

Yeah I didn't think that one through. LOL.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offline797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 28
Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6399 times:

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 14):
hey at least its a 75X.

I have never seen this type before. Does the X stand for Winglet and IFE? If so, then it wouldn't be such a catastrophe.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 16):
This is really mortifiyng. I mean, we're talking about 30% seat reductions for this summer to CCS? Another fact is that US frequencies have remained forzen for a long time so if things were going they way they should, planes should be up to the gills.

Yes it is. Venezuela has been known for very high loads in incoming and outgoing flights. Now, flights will begin to leave and come more empty.

Now, why are these measures happening more than 3 months after the devaluation? Because people in Venezuela pre-purchase their tickets with a long time in advance. Venezuelans like to purchase as long as with one year before their trip, meaning they purchased todays ticket at the old currency value. Now that tickets have rocketed to more than double the original price, the harsh effects will start to kick in.

It would be very interesting to see how airlines will confront this situation. In other threads, I was told that flights to Venezuela usually have a 52% break-even load factor. Since flights will be definitely start leaving more empty, is it possible to expect a drop in the prices from the US carriers?

For better understanding, AA flies to POS, CUR and AUA for prices as low as $120 one way. CCS usually stands for non-less than $440 one-way, reaching $900 for a seat in economy (best case scenario!!!). Distances are more or less equal. This leads me to think that they won't suffer as much if they drop their prices by a couple hundred of bucks, right? If it's to address a heavily reduced demand, then I think it would be a smart choice and would benefit all of us who are paying so much for such a short trip. My last flight to CCS was purchased for $1,300 in economy...

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 16):
Another example of this is Avianca, who, having a monopoly on the historically busy BOG-CCS route, might be downgrading frequency to 3x a day form the current 4x, when at one point they were flying up to 6x daily in competition with Aeropostal.

This saddens me. Avianca has been the best performing airline in CCS for a long time, even sending two 763s in one day with 6 flights. However, flights to BOG have become quite expensive too... sad stuff to hear.

797



Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
User currently offlinepylon101 From Russia, joined Feb 2008, 1392 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5939 times:

Quoting 797 (Reply 13):
Only the Russians with all the guns and nuclear stuff they're giving to Chavez are interested in putting money in Venezuela

I guess it's too much. Nuclear stuff ? To Chavez? You made my day.
Most people here know not much about Venezuela.
Though travel agencies (after non-visa agreement) have been trying to take more people to see your great country.

But in the end Russians are not responsible for your political developments.
Buisness is buisness.

I agree that tickets to VZ are expensive.
Was going to go to see tapui and Bolivar pick in January - but switched to Thailand as a result.
btw not only air fares - car rental is crazy!!!


User currently offline797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 28
Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5912 times:

Quoting pylon101 (Reply 22):
Though travel agencies (after non-visa agreement) have been trying to take more people to see your great country.

I understand Russians have a nice taste for Caribbean destinations. I know Transaero sends their 744 to PUJ and nearby destinations. I'd love to see those in PMV and CCS... but with this prices, who dares?!

Quoting pylon101 (Reply 22):
Was going to go to see tapui and Bolivar pick in January - but switched to Thailand as a result.
btw not only air fares - car rental is crazy!!!

Car rental? You lost your mind haha. If I were you I'd hire a private taxi company or a tour guide. Driving in Venezuela (especially in CCS) is insane. Plus, there's no GPS coverage and you'd get completely lost in a matter of minutes.

If you're interested PM me and I can give you some great advise.



Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16958 posts, RR: 48
Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5848 times:

Quoting pylon101 (Reply 22):
Was going to go to see tapui and

How do you even get to the Tepuys at this point? It seems like most flights that direction are long gone?



E pur si muove -Galileo
25 797 : Fly down to Puerto Ordaz and catch a private tour from there, usually in a Caravan or the Dash 7.
26 ETinCaribe : I don't know the answer to your question, but wondering what the landing fee and ground services cost comparison is b/w POS and CCS for instance. I w
27 SCL767 : LAN sometimes has very reasonable fares between MIA and CCS. Also, the airfares between POS and CCS are often higher than the airfares between MIA/FL
28 burnsie28 : Yes which is the end of the week...
29 797 : Really? These are news for me. When you say GOL, do you mean Varig? I haven't seen a GOL plane in CCS yet. If they serve to PMV, what's the equipment
30 Post contains links SCL767 : Yep, GOL uses a Varig-branded B738 on the route. Here is a link about the scheduled service: http://www.voegol.com.br/int/Paginas/TheCaribbeanclosert
31 cayman : Any idea of loads on MIA-CCS-MIA are showing stagnation yet, particularly AA? Tjose flights are usually very heavy volume. Another factor, though not
32 LipeGIG : Not only PUJ: GIG-GRU-CCS-PUJ 2x weekly GIG-GRU-CCS-AUA 2x weekly GIG-GRU-CCS-SDQ 3x weekly All with B738 Probably !
33 Post contains images pylon101 : No-no. To drive by myself only. It's a real adventure! It can't be worse than in Bangkok or Cairo. If lost - I hire taxi - and follow. Well, I am not
34 797 : Very interesting! I didn't know anything about that. Is it possible to book a CCS-AUA flight on Varig? I'd assume 5th Freedom Rights apply in this ca
35 Post contains images MaverickM11 : On a SATURDAY? Not likely. And if that's the day things appear that were loaded in OAG today, then don't hold your breath for anything interesting
36 Post contains images Transpac787 : Yes a SATURDAY. DL employees can already see it on Deltanet..... DL just gets kinda pissy when these things are posted before the publish date
37 MaverickM11 : I'm willing to guarantee DL doesn't announce anything on a Saturday.
38 A388 : Yes GOL has 5th Freedom Rights to carry passengers between CCS and AUA and vice versa. The RG 738s are used on this weekly flight. A388
39 Transpac787 : *shrugs* Guarantee all you like, there WILL be a rather significant international schedule change on Saturday.
40 Post contains images peanuts : If it's just north of the equator and no new city is announced than it sounds like an equipment upgrade to ACC. I don't see what else it would be.....
41 Transpac787 : It's an existing route but the change of aircraft is what the interesting part is. See reply 1.
42 KingAir200 : It's not an announcement. Just a new schedule load into Deltamatic. You probably won't even notice it unless you go looking for it.
43 Post contains images MaverickM11 : That I believe. I think you can safely lower your expectations
44 peanuts : Yes. But ACC would be in the Northern Hemisphere. Still a nice equipment upgrade though...
45 peanuts : lol. I have. This is a.net after all. The site with thread titles such as: "major announcement tomorrow by XX carrier" that usually are duds...
46 MaverickM11 : I haven't gone over everything yet, but it looks like ATLACC goes to a 332 starting JUN10.
47 realsim : Here are AA LF's from Jan 09 to Sep 09, the last one avalaibles: Total PAX inbound CCS: 215.796 Total PAX outbound CCS: 214.984 MIA-CCS: 75,67% LF CC
48 797 : Thank you so much for this data! I have never seen it before and it gives a nice insight of how things really are. Looking at this, SJU is not doing
49 PSU.DTW.SCE : It is, it is already loaded in the electronic timetable, thus public information. ATL-ACC becomes and A330-200 on June 1, 2010 Typically you can see
50 mah4546 : I assure you its doing great. The fares are astronomical.
51 bobnwa : The biggest duds are the quarterly announcements of an AirTran major announcement, which never seem to happen.
52 erikgnoha : Do you know what is the break-even load factor for this route?
53 mah4546 : Given that AA routinely charges $650-$800 round-trip ($500 round-trip is a "sale" on this 1.5 hour route), we are probably looking at somewhere aroun
54 A388 : My God, are people still willing to pay so much money for such a short flight? I know AA has the market to themselves on this route as they have no c
55 mah4546 : Well, one reason would be a freeze on new routes between the U.S. and Venezuela since 2006. It's mainly local and connecting to other Caribbean point
56 akelley728 : 75X is an internal Delta designation for one of their domestic 757 configurations. 75X has a 26F/158Y configuration. All have AVOD, all to receive wi
57 797 : That's something that I have a hard time to deal with too... Bear in mind that pre-devaluation, a person could buy a $900 ticket to MIA (and this is
58 mah4546 : On that note, though, demand to South Florida and Houston is stronger than ever. As the wealthy have escaped Venezuela and now call Miami and Houston
59 A388 : Same here in Curacao. Looking at the AA SJU prices, you can have a return ticket to Amsterdam for about 100 to 200 dollars more. Amazing... A388
60 797 : Does this mean that SBA Airlines is allowed to increase capacity? I heard they intend to use their 3rd 767 for MIA during high season. Thanks Mark.
61 mah4546 : I should have said frequency. In general, capacity addition is okay, just not additional frequency past what is grandfathered in 2006 (SBA is grandfa
62 FlyingSicilian : exactly. In Houston, the wealthy VZs are now even moving out to more far reaching 'burbs like Katy, The Woodlands, and Royal Oaks. Citgo is actually
63 Post contains images toobz : Lol it's not anything that's going to revolutionalize air travel. Like TRANSPAC and KingAir stated it is change of equip. I don't even think DL will
64 Avianca : actually AA suspended all cargo operation into and out of Venezuela!
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