Nice to see YHU alive with 200,000 movements. Also nice to see Montreal's two major airports in 4th and 5th place. Just goes to show that even though YYC is busier than YUL in terms of movements, Montreal is still the third busiest terminal airspace in Canada.
(Towered airports are considered. YMX, Downsview and so on do not have control towers, and are therefore not counted)
CGKings317 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 303 posts, RR: 7 Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7345 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW CHAT OPERATOR
Thanks for sharing this information thenoflyzone! As a YOWer at the moment who goes spotting on occasion, I have been wondering how YOW stacks up with other Canadian airports. Interesting to note YOW saw a YoY increase whereas most saw a decrease. I always has a hunch that it was somewhere between 6 and 8. Nice to get the confirmation.
Can you or any other A.netters offer an explanation to the massive growth at YQM? Military? GA? Airlines? They must be doing something right out in the self-proclaimed "heart of Atlantic Canada."
~CGKings317
I love ✈ & volcanoes but the 2 of them dont get along, just ask KLM867 & PH-BFC
Brick From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1571 posts, RR: 8 Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7313 times:
AC_B777 From Canada, joined Aug 2000, 784 posts, RR: 13 Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6900 times:
I suspect we will see the numbers increase for YYT in the coming years as the plans are to lengthen runways 11/29 and 16/34 by 1500ft each and to upgrade those runways to CAT III ILS.
The airport authority hopes to take traffic away from YQX, YJT and YYR.
In life, some days you are the bug..... some days you are the windshield!
thenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 1964 posts, RR: 12 Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6458 times:
Quoting AC_B777 (Reply 4): suspect we will see the numbers increase for YYT in the coming years as the plans are to lengthen runways 11/29 and 16/34 by 1500ft each and to upgrade those runways to CAT III ILS.
I fail to see how lengthening the runway by 1500ft will attract more airlines. 8,502ft is more than enough for flights within Canada and flights to LHR.
As for the advantages of CATIII, well, dont forget that aircrew and aircraft need to be certified for that, and as far as i know, Jazz Dash-8s and CRJ1, 2s cannot perform CATIII, only CATII. That leaves mainline service, and there is so few at YYT that the gain over CATII would be marginal, and the expenses to maintain the runway to CATIII criteria will probably outweigh the benefits.
If any airport should get CATIII, its YHZ, as it is twice as busy as YYT, and sees much more mainline service. I know that YYT is fogged up most of the time as well, but to go from there to justify CATIII, i'm not so sure.
Thenoflyzone
[Edited 2010-04-06 13:15:15]
[Edited 2010-04-06 13:16:11]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21465 posts, RR: 24 Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6327 times:
Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 6): Quoting AC_B777 (Reply 4):
suspect we will see the numbers increase for YYT in the coming years as the plans are to lengthen runways 11/29 and 16/34 by 1500ft each and to upgrade those runways to CAT III ILS.
I fail to see how lengthening the runway by 1500ft will attract more airlines. 8,502ft is more than enough for flights within Canada and flights to LHR.
YYT also gets numerous medical and technical diversions on transatlantic flights, and those flights have no problem departing for destinations well beyond LHR.
cayman From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 905 posts, RR: 9 Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6232 times:
Interesting that YVR handles what, approx 1/3 to 1/2 of YYZ pax numbers, but in terms of a/c movements it is over 80% of YYZ. Would that be because of high frequency isalnd hoppng flights among the coastal cities and islands?
I guess 400,000 annual a/c movements for YYZ is relatively low for an airport with around 31M annual pax?
AC_B777 From Canada, joined Aug 2000, 784 posts, RR: 13 Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6190 times:
Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 6): I fail to see how lengthening the runway by 1500ft will attract more airlines. 8,502ft is more than enough for flights within Canada and flights to LHR.
As for the advantages of CATIII, well, dont forget that aircrew and aircraft need to be certified for that, and as far as i know, Jazz Dash-8s and CRJ1, 2s cannot perform CATIII, only CATII. That leaves mainline service, and there is so few at YYT that the gain over CATII would be marginal, and the expenses to maintain the runway to CATIII criteria will probably outweigh the benefits.
If any airport should get CATIII, its YHZ, as it is twice as busy as YYT, and sees much more mainline service. I know that YYT is fogged up most of the time as well, but to go from there to justify CATIII, i'm not so sure.
It's not really about attracting more airlines as it is about getting more tech/fuel stops and diversions. Yes, YYT sees many diversions/emergency landings, however, many still go to YQX/YYR because of the longer runways. Also, the airport authority would like to accomodate the A380 if needed, something that would be hard to do right now. YYT would also like to increase military and GA stopovers
As for the CATIII, if the airport authority wants it and can get the money for it, then what does it matter if YHZ should have one? It's not like there is only a few to go around and someone has to chose who gets them...if YHZ wants CATIII, then they can get the money somehow.
Say what you want about CATII vs CATIII, but when you you have been stuck in YYT for a week or more because nothing can land due to the fog, then you will wish for a better system.
In life, some days you are the bug..... some days you are the windshield!
pnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2046 posts, RR: 12 Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6177 times:
Quoting cayman (Reply 10): Interesting that YVR handles what, approx 1/3 to 1/2 of YYZ. Would that be because of high frequency isalnd hoppng flights among the coastal cities and islands?
YVR also includes some float plane movement on the south side as well as general aviation.
Some cargo operations use Hamilton rather than YYZ simply because of slot availability and landing fees. That and the heavy widebody flights to Europe etc. I think influence the landings to passenger ratio. Slots during high frequency operations can be pretty tight. There are Caravans for cargo and for Georgian Air, plus the Beech Airliners, but not a lot of private aviation except for business jets. A lot of general aviation uses Brampton (where Brampton flying club) and other surrounding airports besides City Centre and Buttonville.
In general landing cycles can be impacted greatly by flight schools operating there. Cessna's doing touch and go's can account for a lot of movements. There are no separation issues as well like with heavy aircraft.
pnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2046 posts, RR: 12 Reply 13, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6150 times:
Quoting cayman (Reply 10): Interesting that YVR handles what, approx 1/3 to 1/2 of YYZ pax numbers, but in terms of a/c movements it is over 80% of YYZ. Would that be because of high frequency isalnd hoppng flights among the coastal cities and islands?
YVR also includes some float plane movement on the south side as well as general aviation.
Some cargo operations use Hamilton rather than YYZ to get around landing restrictions, curfews and for lower fees. More and more general aviation is avoiding YYZ simply because of slot availability and landing fees. That and the heavy widebody flights to Europe etc. I think influence the landings to passenger ratio. Slots during high frequency operations can be pretty tight. There are Caravans for cargo and for Georgian Air, plus the Beech Airliners, but not a lot of private aviation except for business jets.
In general landing cycles can be impacted greatly by flight schools operating there. Cessna's doing touch and go's can account for a lot of movements. There are no separation issues as well like with heavy aircraft.
heathrow From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 941 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5970 times:
Quoting cayman (Reply 10): Interesting that YVR handles what, approx 1/3 to 1/2 of YYZ pax numbers, but in terms of a/c movements it is over 80% of YYZ. Would that be because of high frequency isalnd hoppng flights among the coastal cities and islands?
Bingo! Not only that, but flights intra-BC. There's CMA, Pacific coastal, Hawkair, Harbour Air, West Coast Air, and I'm sure many more. This isn't even counting QK who have a large network out of YVR.
I'm surprised to see YEG so low on the list! I guess their "Stop the YYC habbit" scheme didn't work!
thenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 1964 posts, RR: 12 Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5777 times:
Quoting cayman (Reply 10): I guess 400,000 annual a/c movements for YYZ is relatively low for an airport with around 31M annual pax?
Quite the contrary. In 2009, YYZ was the 20th busiest airport in the world in terms of aircraft movements, but was nowhere to be found in the top 30 airports in the world in terms of passengers. With 400,000 movements, it should be handling around 35-40million passengers.
As an example, MAD had 435,000 movements in 2009, similar to YYZ, but handled 48 million passengers, significantly more than YYZ.
Quoting heathrow (Reply 14): I'm surprised to see YEG so low on the list! I guess their "Stop the YYC habbit" scheme didn't work!
YXD and CZVL steal all the VFR and GA traffic from YEG. If it was all consolidated at YEG, it would handle similar movements to YOW and probably even more.
Thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
gr8circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 2986 posts, RR: 4 Reply 16, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5659 times:
Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 15): Quite the contrary. In 2009, YYZ was the 20th busiest airport in the world in terms of aircraft movements, but was nowhere to be found in the top 30 airports in the world in terms of passengers. With 400,000 movements, it should be handling around 35-40million passengers.
YYZ would have a lot more traffic if they manage to woo back all the passengers who drive down to BUF......
kevin From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 1129 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5659 times:
Wow! YYC is doing really good. On the other hand YEG had such big ambitions which I should say did not materialize at all. The only major announcements worth noticing since the whole oilsands boom started were the ACs LHR flight and Aeromexico. YYC on the other hand got BA, LH, KL and coming this summer KE seasonal service plus Tokyo flight on AC. I mean it kind of makes sense since YEG's population mostly consists of oilsands workers and trades people who rarely venture outside of Canada apart from an occasional trip to Mexico, Cuba or Dominican. YYC on the other hand has the clientelle to support a long haul flight.
kevin From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 1129 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5567 times:
Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 15): YXD and CZVL steal all the VFR and GA traffic from YEG. If it was all consolidated at YEG, it would handle similar movements to YOW and probably even more.
What kind of VFR trafic does YXD handle? AFAIK, most of their traffic consists of business jets, oilsands charters and med evacs. 99% of pax from Edmonton use YEG.
threepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2091 posts, RR: 8 Reply 19, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5487 times:
Quoting C172Akula (Reply 8): Further proof that YYC needed the parallel 34/16 yesterday! At least it is finally going ahead now.
It really proves nothing of the sort. There are much busier single-runway airports elsewhere, and delays due to congestion in YYC are minimal. Even Boundary Bay, with comparable numbers, generally operates one runway at a time.
A346Dude From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1198 posts, RR: 8 Reply 21, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5326 times:
I gotta say, while interesting, aircraft movements is a really bad metric for comparing airports. Since there is no way to know precisely what the breakdown is between GA and scheduled airline flights, the numbers are pretty meaningless.
You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
C172Akula From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 979 posts, RR: 5 Reply 22, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5136 times:
Quoting kevin (Reply 20): It really proves nothing of the sort. There are much busier single-runway airports elsewhere, and delays due to congestion in YYC are minimal. Even Boundary Bay, with comparable numbers, generally operates one runway at a time.
Quoting A346Dude (Reply 21): Very true. YYC is not a busy airport at all. I think 7-9 am is as busy as it gets. other than that it's just normal traffic.
Perhaps you two should talk with the controllers and pilots that fly into YYC on a regular basis. The controllers will tell you that the parallel was needed years ago, and that controllers brought over from places like FRA and HKG have all agreed that running intersecting runways with those levels of traffic are at their maximum. (2 of those controllers are still working YYC terminal up in the Edmonton ACC)
Flying back from YYJ two weeks ago in the middle of the afternoon (~2pm) we were already slowing down over the Rockies and ended up with a 45 minute airborne delay due to traffic and runways ops. A few months before that coming back in from DEN we were routed all over the northwest of the city for a good half hour extra prior to landing.
I won't even go into your complete and utter troll comment Threepoint. Stay classy...
pnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2046 posts, RR: 12 Reply 23, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5099 times:
Aircraft movements are mostly significant when you are looking scheduling landings or ATC volume. Also missing is the nature of the aircraft involved. With little GA traffic YYZ uses three parallel runways during high frequency operations. When a strong wind restricts landings to the 33/15 dual parallels delays often occur.
Larger aircraft require more separation, spend more time on the runway as they need longer stopping distances. So more landings by GA aircraft, while slower in flight, spend less time on the runway and there is no need for wake separation.
The customer and people involved with terminal operations are more concerned with passenger bodies and processing issues.
thenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 1964 posts, RR: 12 Reply 24, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4977 times:
Azt kell mondanom, ugyanakkor
Quoting kevin (Reply 18): What kind of VFR trafic does YXD handle? AFAIK, most of their traffic consists of business jets, oilsands charters and med evacs. 99% of pax from Edmonton use YEG.
CZVL handles VFRs. Not YXD. That is why i said YXD and CZVL, together, steal all the GA and VFR traffic from YEG.
Thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
25 thenoflyzone: I see the traffic that YUL handles, and to know that YYC handles even more traffic without the benefit of parallel runways is frankly amazing. A very
26 Viscount724: Over the past 10 years, annual passenger traffic at YEG has increased about 56%, vs 51% for YYC.
27 threepoint: You are talking (typing) with one of the latter. Does five times a week over the past 15 years count as regular? Your pair of anecdotes are not indic
28 C172Akula: Don't think you'd like that, move more people with fewer machines mean less jobs for pilots like yourself? Why do you ignore the fact that myself and
29 YVRLTN: There is quite a bit of GA at YVR compared to other major international airports, but I have noticed over the past 18 months the number of very small
30 brilondon: I'm nor sure which airline you are talking about. QK is Air Nova, but is it also another airline's code?
31 ghYHZ: QK is Jazz…….originally the consolidation of the Air Canada “Regionals” under the Air Nova code including Air BC etc and still headquartered a
32 A332: Who honestly gives a crap? In the grand scheme of things, Calgary is a mere grain of sand on a beach. *yawn* Thank you!
33 threepoint: Perhaps, but smart people tend to have many irons in the fire, and I believe it'd be selfish to adhere to the short-term, "what's in it for me" type
34 C172Akula: I can understand that as well. I just get concerned when ATC says they really need that parallel, ultimately it is the safety of everyone in the sky
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