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Emb Considering New Engines For E-Jets  
User currently onlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5408 posts, RR: 30
Posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3830 times:

It seems everybody is looking at new engines for their current models;

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...er-studies-re-engining-e-jets.html

Quote:
But at this point, I could not say that there is any specific technology that has a clear advantage over the other. GE has been a very good partner on the E-Jets and the other engine manufacturers seem to have very interesting propositions as well.

Aren't they contractually obligated to stay with GE? Does GE have any serious upgrades available for the CF-34?


What the...?
11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinesasd209 From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Oct 2007, 642 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3789 times:

I don't know much about e-jets, but are there reliability issues with the current engines or are they not efficient?

User currently offlineDash9 From Canada, joined Nov 2008, 195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3745 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Thread starter):
Does GE have any serious upgrades available for the CF-34?

yes the NG34 is under development now

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ext-generation-cf34-viable-in.html


User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3617 times:

Quoting sasd209 (Reply 1):
are there reliability issues with the current engines or are they not efficient?

As far as I can tell, they seem to get the job done pretty well, with minimal expense (per their missions). As far as the E-jets go, it appears that their reliability issues go further than their engines. Perhaps Embraer should have a serious pow-wow with the software engineers for the E-jets.



Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently onlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5408 posts, RR: 30
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3350 times:

The CRJ's use a different model of the CF-34 engines than the E-Jets do. Wiki shows, what look to me, like significant differences between the -8 models on the CRJ's and the -10 models on the E-Jets.

I wonder if the NG upgrades would be applicable to both.



What the...?
User currently offlinekeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3244 times:

In a related thread last week I suggested we might see a combined stretch / upgrade / reengining. The latest comments by Mauro Kent seem to confirm this..

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4760386/

Consolidating the (very) strong position the E-190 has around 100 seats would be key. Little competition left here for Embraer. Expand the family upwards, putting pressure on the CS100 with a leaner alternative.

Then we have the GTF powered MRJ, recently scaled up by MHI, I doubt how much direct competition it can offer in the next 5-8 yrs. MHI does not have a global after sales support infrastructure and that's crusial.



User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4915 posts, RR: 43
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3082 times:

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 3):
it appears that their reliability issues go further than their engines. Perhaps Embraer should have a serious pow-wow with the software engineers for the E-jets.

This is curious, considering at Air Canada, the E175/E190 has the highest Maintenance dispatch reliability in the fleet.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineVgnAtl747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1513 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2955 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 6):
This is curious, considering at Air Canada, the E175/E190 has the highest Maintenance dispatch reliability in the fleet.

I believe the discussion here was specific to E135/145s... I doubt the 19x would be due for re-engining yet.



Work Hard. Fly Right. Continental Airlines
User currently offlineMoltenRock From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2812 times:

I think a re-engined, stretched, enhanced, 19X+ would do very well. A 140 all economy - 132'ish 1st class / economy cabin along with ranges from 1500 nm to 2500 nm depending on which model (Ie.... standard vs. ER vs. AR) . E-jets would be a great solution for a carrier that could have a nice sweet spot of 80 to 130 passengers.

The only question is cost. If this update, stretch "only" costs a few hundred million that may be the best answer. If it costs $1 billion +, would it make more sense to just develop a 2nd airframe family based on 5 abreast and the lucrative 125 to 175 seat category.


User currently offlinekeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2749 times:

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 8):
The only question is cost. If this update, stretch "only" costs a few hundred million that may be the best answer. If it costs $1 billion +, would it make more sense to just develop a 2nd airframe family based on 5 abreast and the lucrative 125 to 175 seat category.

That's the major trade-off I guess. An entirely new competitive models would at least costs $5 Billion. In addition margins would be depressed by competing CSeries, Superjet, ARJs CRJ's, A320, 737, MS21, C919...

Maybe it's better to be king of a smaller 90-130 seat hill then fight an uphill battle with the rest of the world.. Mauro Kern mentions consolidation of it's current lucrative market position is very important.


User currently offlineDash9 From Canada, joined Nov 2008, 195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2730 times:

Quoting VgnAtl747 (Reply 7):
I believe the discussion here was specific to E135/145s... I doubt the 19x would be due for re-engining yet.

I think the opposite. The ERJ series will most probably never sell again. Embraer is definitely studying the re-enginning of the E-jets because the CF-34 engines are an 'old' design of the late 80's can can't compete against the GTF powered MRJ and Cseries


User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2659 times:

Quoting Dash9 (Reply 10):
Embraer is definitely studying the re-enginning of the E-jets because the CF-34 engines are an 'old' design of the late 80's can can't compete against the GTF powered MRJ and Cseries

Not really with the CF34-10E. While they share design with existing engines, they were developed for the E-190/195, and there was nothing else available from GE in that thrust range for the E-Jets. Even the CF34-8C on the E-170/175 and CRJ700/900/1000 is a newer design than the original CF34-3B on the CRJ100/200s.



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
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