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OAG Changes 4/9/2010: AA/DL/US  
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6999 posts, RR: 13
Posted (4 years 3 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 10458 times:

This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now.

How to read:
ABE-MDT 3>2 APR means a reduction in one roundtrip from 3 to 2 for April only
ABE-MDT 3.8>2.7 APR-JUN This is the raw format of the data which sometimes I'm too lazy to retype. It means that over a month they were averaging a little less than 4 trips per day and now it's a little less than 3 per day. So, basically they cancelled 8 flights per week or so. Airlines are doing A LOT of non-daily ops now, so these fractions are pervasive.
ABE-MDT 4>6 MAY- means an increase from 4 to 6 roundtrips starting in May and continuing
ABE-MDT 4>6 MAY-JUN, 5>6 JUL means the change is only for the stated period May to June and then a different change for July in the same route

Please take it easy on any typos, there was a lot to type...


9K
BOS-LEB 7>4 MAY-
HPN-LEB 1>2 MAY-
RSW-EYW 6>8 JUN-
SJU-STT 15>9 MAY-OCT
SJU-STX 9>8 MAY-OCT

AA
DFW-TLH 2>1 JUN-
LGA-ATL 0>7 JUL-
LGA-CLE 3>4 JUL-
LGA-CLT 0>5 AUG-
LGA-MSP 0>4 OCT-
MIA-GHB 3>WK>0 AUG- SVC NEVER STARTS

DL
ATL-DSM 2>3 JUN-
ATL-ECP 1>3 JUN-AUG, 1>2 SEP-
ATL-EYW 2>3 SEP-
ATL-FAY 8>9 AUG-
ATL-GSO 10>12 JUN-AUG, 10>11 SEP-
ATL-ILM 6>7 AUG-
ATL-MOB 8>10 AUG-
ATL-OAJ 4>5 AUG-
ATL-TRI 7>8 AUG-
CVG-GSO 1>3 JUN-
CVG-MSY 2>1 AUG-SEP
DTW-AUS 2>3 AUG-
DTW-BGR 3>4 AUG-OCT
DTW-BTV 3>4 AUG-
DTW-CLE 4>5 AUG-
DTW-CMI 3>2 AUG-
DTW-FSD 1>2 JUN-OCT
DTW-GSP 3>4 AUG-
DTW-ICT 1>2 AUG-
DTW-IND 7>8 JUN-AUG
DTW-LEX 4>6 AUG-
DTW-LSE 1>2 AUG-
DTW-PHX 5>4 AUG-
DTW-PWM 3>4 AUG-
DTW-RIC 4>5 AUG-
DTW-TRI 1>2 JUN-
DTW-TVC 5>6 AUG-SEP
DTW-YOW 3>4 AUG-
DTW-YQB 2>3 AUG-
DTW-YYZ 7>8 AUG-
MEM-AMA 2>3 AUG-
MEM-ICT 2>3 AUG-
MSP-BDL 3>4 AUG-
MSP-BIL 2>3 AUG-SEP
MSP-BMI 1>2 AUG-
MSP-DLH 6>8 AUG-
MSP-FSD 7>8 AUG-
MSP-LNK 3>4 JUN-
MSP-MCO 4>3 AUG-OCT
MSP-ORF 1>2 AUG-
MSP-RDU 3>4 AUG-
MSP-RIC 0>1 AUG-
MSP-ROC 0>1 AUG-
MSP-SLC 5>6 AUG-
MSP-YXE 3>4 AUG-
SLC-ABQ 5>6 AUG-
SLC-AUS 2>3 AUG-
SLC-FAT 3>4 AUG-
SLC-GEG 6>7 AUG-
SLC-ORD 4>5 AUG-
SLC-PSC 5>6 AUG-
SLC-SAT 2>3 AUG-
SLC-SFO 5>6 AUG-

FL
BWI-NAS 4/WK>2/WK JUN-AUG

US
CLT-HNL 4/WK>0 SEP-
PHX-HNL 8/WK>12/WK SEP-
PHX-OGG 10/WK>11/WK SEP
LGA-ALB 4>3 JUL-AUG
LGA-CHS 2>3 JUL-AUG
LGA-PHL 18>19 AUG

VX
SFO-SNA 4>1 MAY-JUN
SVC then resumes till SEP at 4 RTs. Must be a screw up.

YX
MKE-BOS 2>1 OCT-

52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32579 posts, RR: 72
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 10445 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
MIA-GHB 3>WK>0 AUG- SVC NEVER STARTS

Service already started in November. It is currently suspended because of runway equipment violations that American Eagle claims makes flying into GHB unsafe. GHB officials are working on fixing the equipment violations, but cannot commit to a date when it will be finished. Until then the GHB flights are flying into ELH and AA has a charter bus meeting passengers to bus them to GHB.



a.
User currently offlinempdpilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 988 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 10253 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
LGA-ATL 0>7 JUL-
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
LGA-MSP 0>4 OCT-

Just a thought but do we think these are a response to DL's new Shuttle service to ORD from LGA? These are popular business markets so they could be unrelated but just a thought.



One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6999 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 10188 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 1):
Service already started in November. It is currently suspended because of runway equipment violations that American Eagle claims makes flying into GHB unsafe. GHB officials are working on fixing the equipment violations, but cannot commit to a date when it will be finished. Until then the GHB flights are flying into ELH and AA has a charter bus meeting passengers to bus them to GHB.

Then I should say "SVC never resumes"...

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 2):
Just a thought but do we think these are a response to DL's new Shuttle service to ORD from LGA? These are popular business markets so they could be unrelated but just a thought.

I absolutely think that. It's no coincidence that they add a bunch of DL hubs right after that. The CLT move is interesting because US is who DL is acquiring LGA slots from. Clearly its all tied in. They didn't even cancel anything YET to fund the flying which means it came out of nowhere without a well thought out plan. e.g. quick retaliation.


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 10103 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
LGA-ATL 0>7 JUL-
LGA-CLT 0>5 AUG-
LGA-MSP 0>4 OCT-

Retaliatory moves as expected, though I am shocked at the frequency. Last time AA did LGA-ATL they had 5 flights of which 3 were M80s and 2 ERJs, IIRC. Will be interesting to see they type of equipment used. And for LGA-CLT/MSP, I would've expected something more along the lines of 3 flights each instead of 5 and 4, respectively.


User currently offlineJosh32121 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 9892 times:

Where is AA getting the slots from the operate the ATL, CLT, and MSP flights? (I.e., what are they cutting to add these new services.) I didn't think they could or would sit on slots without using them.

Second, when did AA cut ATL-LGA? I flew it back in 2006 on MQ, and I think at the time there was a mix of several MD-80 and Eagle flights each day running the route.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22681 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 9868 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
They didn't even cancel anything YET to fund the flying which means it came out of nowhere without a well thought out plan. e.g. quick retaliation.

They didn't have the right airplane for LGA-CLT last time and yet got reasonably good results; it makes sense to give LGA-CLT a shot with CR7s. While we can quibble about whether MSP and ATL are retaliatory, I'm relatively convinced CLT isn't.

Regarding "coming out of nowhere," remember that AA tried to retire LGA slots a couple of years ago and just kept flights to keep the slots out of LFC hands when PANYNJ wouldn't retire the slots - there's no reason to keep those loss leaders around.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 4):
Will be interesting to see they type of equipment used.

2-class CR7s. It'll be something like 446 daily seats (at 64 seats, which I think is right), so actually somewhat less capacity than they had last time around.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1011 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 9847 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
CVG-GSO 1>3 JUN-

What's up with this? Maintenance-related?


User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32579 posts, RR: 72
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 9837 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
They didn't even cancel anything YET to fund the flying which means it came out of nowhere without a well thought out plan. e.g. quick retaliation.

AA has plenty of unused LaGuardia slots at off-peak times. Otherwise, AA is cutting four Toronto frequencies and two Raleigh frequencies.



a.
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 9804 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 6):
Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 4):
Will be interesting to see they type of equipment used.

2-class CR7s. It'll be something like 446 daily seats (at 64 seats, which I think is right), so actually somewhat less capacity than they had last time around.

I see, so it's actually still a somewhat moderate response.


User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1536 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9454 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL

Surprised they are extending all these CRJ flights into late summer/early fall with oil approaching $90.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
FL
BWI-NAS 4/WK>2/WK JUN-AUG

Going to SAT/SUN only.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
YX
MKE-BOS 2>1 OCT-

That's not right. I think you meant MCI-BOS.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 9238 times:

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 2):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
LGA-ATL 0>7 JUL-
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
LGA-MSP 0>4 OCT-

Just a thought but do we think these are a response to DL's new Shuttle service to ORD from LGA? These are popular business markets so they could be unrelated but just a thought.

AA seems to be adding a lot of routes from LGA to other people's hubs (MSP, ATL, CLE, CLT). This is definitely going to be an uphill battle for them.

It's good to see DL beefing up MSP though!



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlinesmpplnohow2fly From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 9128 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 11):
It's good to see DL beefing up MSP though!

I dont think its so much as a beef up as just adding back the summer schedule...just the same good to see the busy MSP-DLH is back! I always love going up there in the summer.

Also I love seeing AA on LGA-MSP again...Love it when we can see some competition up here. Even tho the CR7 isnt going to compare to the A32X's and E175s that DL has on that route.



The beginning is the end is the beginning
User currently offlineHPAEAA From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1024 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8884 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
LGA-CLE 3>4 JUL-

Woo Hoo , finally back to 5x daily with JFK..



Why do I fly???
User currently offlineSlcDeltaRUmd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3310 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8827 times:

Speaking of DL at LGA are they keeping LGA-SLC summer only of course for the summer or was that just for the ski season?

User currently offlineplanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3517 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8780 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
ATL-DSM 2>3 JUN-

Is this just expanded for summer or will this be "permanent?" Could this be a reaction to AirTran's DSM entry?



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22681 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8619 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 9):
I see, so it's actually still a somewhat moderate response.

It is. I think there's a difference in degree between "reaction" and "retaliation."

Let's take an imaginary route AAA-BBB on which airline A flies 2 daily ERJs. Say WN comes in with 4 daily 73Gs. That will likely change the market quite a bit. Going from 2x ERJ to 3x 320 is reaction (and is probably a shrewd move). Going from 2x ERJ to 8x 763 is retaliation.

My sense is that ATL/MSP/CLT are more in the former category; they are a reaction to Delta's growth in New York in general, not to any specific move. The announcement of ORD probably affected the timing some, but even without that announcement, I suspect that AA would have been in all three markets 18-24 months from now. The arrival of 2 class CR7s - probably the best aircraft for these routes - has nothing to do with anything Delta is doing.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7505 posts, RR: 28
Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8405 times:

Quoting FL787 (Reply 10):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL

Surprised they are extending all these CRJ flights into late summer/early fall with oil approaching $90.

DL is more or less continuing their summer schedule. Their schedule for August didn't really reflect a continuation of the June/July schedule. Keep in mind the complexity of completely reworking the schedule this year since it is the first time they've been able to have the post-merger schedule one one combined system with all aircraft on the same ops specs. There is a enormous amount of one-time rework going this year which leads to way more schedule changes than normal.


User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3791 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (4 years 3 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8328 times:

Quoting planespotting (Reply 15):
Is this just expanded for summer or will this be "permanent?" Could this be a reaction to AirTran's DSM entry?

seasonal. Thats no reaction worthy of FL.


User currently offlineMDW22L31C From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 212 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (4 years 3 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8258 times:

Would DL consider adding a flight from MSP to ONT this summer. since the MD88 are now being shifted to MSP. NW ran 2 MD80's into ONT for years.

User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7505 posts, RR: 28
Reply 20, posted (4 years 3 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8137 times:

Quoting MDW22L31C (Reply 19):
Would DL consider adding a flight from MSP to ONT this summer. since the MD88 are now being shifted to MSP. NW ran 2 MD80's into ONT for years.

No, and they haven't been there in years. Everyone but the small, third tier markets that are MSP-exclusive can effectively be served over existing service to SLC and ATL.

MSP-ONT is a long, thin route route. The MD-88 or -90 is not the right aircraft for such a route. Perhaps a A319 but see my remark above.


User currently offlineuncGSO From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 3 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7837 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
ATL-GSO 10>12 JUN-AUG, 10>11 SEP-

Nice to see additions but can't we get just ONE MD88??  


User currently offlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2862 posts, RR: 30
Reply 22, posted (4 years 3 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7500 times:

Quoting FL787 (Reply 10):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
YX
MKE-BOS 2>1 OCT-

That's not right. I think you meant MCI-BOS.

The 5th MKE-BOS trip, which is a traditional seasonal addition, is ending in October as it normally does. This oddity in stats which make it appear MKE-BOS is dropping from 2x to 1x is likely a result of some trips being filed under YX and some under F9.

For what it's worth, the 5th MKE-LGA nonstop, one which is about to end so the slot can be used for a 3rd DEN-LGA, now shows on the YX site to return this fall. With the upcoming and ongoing consolidation of F9/YX, I would expect various schedule changes between now and fall.

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 18):
Quoting planespotting (Reply 15):
Is this just expanded for summer or will this be "permanent?" Could this be a reaction to AirTran's DSM entry?

seasonal. Thats no reaction worthy of FL.

Not a tyipcal reaction, but AirTran isn't flying DSM-ATL. Might be a different reaction if they were.


User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2205 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (4 years 3 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7147 times:

At the risk of restarting the "retaliation or no retaliation" argument we've had on several different threads here, I still think AA's decision to add LGA-ATL / MSP is NOT retaliation. There are a lot of people who work on Wall Street / Madison Avenue / Eighth Avenue who need to fly to MSP and ATL to meet with Coca Cola / Target / Cargill / Home Depot / etc. AA needs to have a presence on these routes in order to compete for corporate contracts in New York City, just like AA needs to have a presence on LGA - DTW.

If AA wanted to retaliate against DL, they would have added a route like MSP-LAX (which AA served briefly in the late 1980s), DTW-LAX (in 1979, AA had 3x day DC-10s on this route) or JFK-SLC, which are not as critical from a network perspective - adding these routes would have sent a clear retaliatory signal to DL.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlinethegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (4 years 3 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7119 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
MSP-RDU 3>4 AUG-
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
ATL-OAJ 4>5 AUG-
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
ATL-FAY 8>9 AUG-
ATL-GSO 10>12 JUN-AUG, 10>11 SEP-
ATL-ILM 6>7 AUG-

Nice to see some love here...
GSO-ATL is no joke sometimes you can see the CRJs side by side at GSO on their way to ATL....



Our Returning Champion
25 enilria : If they were unused they'd have been returned. You can't leave a slot unused. They will have to cut something or acquire slots. True. This decision w
26 mah4546 : One can sit on LaGuardia slots if nobody else wants them. AA has LaGuardia slots at less-than-desirable times. AA will be cutting seven current fligh
27 planespotting : My thought was that they might be trying to hedge their bets by getting more of the DSM-ATL pax in anticipation of an (in my opinion, almost certain)
28 enilria : The key to retaliating is add something where you aren't going to lose so much money that you are hurting yourself more than you are hurting the othe
29 mah4546 : When AA originally asked to have slots retired, AA asked for 42 slots to be retired. FAA said no. AA put about 25-28 slots back into use and has sat
30 DFWEagle : AA definitely does have unused commuter slots at LaGuardia which will be re-activated for these changes. No new LGA slots will be purchased/traded an
31 KcrwFlyer : FL already flies to MLI though. DL needs those seats to make the fares they have to run work. DL is all about reacting to FL, not so much into preven
32 airbusaddict : Could this be in response to the new AA service to ORD? or DFW? Or just neither.
33 enilria : There is a use or use it rule at all those airports. They can't block an unused slot from being used by another airline. It may be that nobody wants
34 mah4546 : There you go then, that explains it.[Edited 2010-04-10 17:27:08]
35 m404 : Is DL down to about 16 cities using mainline from MEM? SEA SFO LAX LAS PHX MSP ORD DTW MSY MBJ MIA TPA MCO ATL DCA LGA
36 m404 : Add Amsterdam to that list for 17 cities. Anymore?
37 HVNandrew : DL will be back UP to 20 mainline destinations from CVG this summer, from a low of 16 this spring. Is CVG now the smallest hub in the DL system, or is
38 DeltAirlines : BOS-MEM sees mainline return on June 9 - the morning BOS-MEM will be on an A320, while the evening MEM-BOS will be on a MD-88. MEM is currently at ar
39 PHXtoDCAtoMSP : MCI SLC FLL LIT In the summer, SAN.
40 SNCntry32 : MCO PBI VPS
41 Cubsrule : I think the timing is retaliatory, but I'm not sure the routes themselves are. As I said, I think AA would have added these routes in the near future
42 PSU.DTW.SCE : Yes, but keep in mind there are a significant number of 2-class CR9's and a handful of E-175s flying formerly mainline (DC-9) routes out of MEM these
43 enilria : Somebody else said that if it was retaliatory it would be something crazy like MSP-LAX or MEM-ATL, but since fuel went through the roof airlines don'
44 Post contains images kbpilot5 : Maybe they should start to use the old SX gates down to the RJs. It would be just like the terminal D at ATL It really would be nice to see a DL MD88
45 Rbgso : Checking the DL schedule, I believe there is the return of one MD88 on this run - finally!
46 Cubsrule : What did DL do about ATL-LGA last time?
47 enilria : DL added DAL-MEM in retaliation for something and there was another round of retaliation involving MSP and DFW, but I'm embarrassed to admit I've for
48 Cubsrule : I'm not sure Delta did anything - that's why I asked. NW certainly responded (announcing, but I don't think ever starting, LGA-DFW), but I don't know
49 FutureUScapt : MIATCB service is suspended in Sept as well, though it could likely just be for the low season.
50 Post contains links mah4546 : I'm told that is in error. Should be fixed next week. Last year AA actually erased MIAGGT from res systems in error, and it took three weeks to fix t
51 cws818 : DAL-MEM was added rather recently when, if I am not mistaken, AA's LGA-ATL had already been discontinued.
52 Post contains images enilria : It's so long ago. I can't remember back that far. I think DL is a step down from NW, but DL has always been aggressive. They just don't attacked by t
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