mah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31118 posts, RR: 73 Posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 13564 times:
American Airlines today filed an application with the Department of Transportation to operate daily 767-300ER service between New York/JFK and Rio de Janeiro and four weekly 757-200 flights between Miami and Brasilia. Both year-round and starting October 1, 2010.
Proposed schedules:
AA 973 JFK 2125-0835+1 GIG 763 Daily
AA 974 GIG 2045-0605+1 JFK 763 Daily
AA 947 MIA 2310-0740+1 BSB xMoTuTh
AA 948 BSB 0940-1620 MIA xTuWeFr
Neo From Brazil, joined Jan 2001, 671 posts, RR: 7 Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 13528 times:
Well, both were quite predictable. The only thing that I didn't get it is this horrible schedule for BSB? Also expected that AA would ask for daily frequencies and not only 4 weekly.
Should be interesting to see how serious are AA's intentions in the JFK-GIG bid.
jfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2666 posts, RR: 5 Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 13525 times:
Does GIG ever work from NYC? It seems like it's started and stopped a lot.
KL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1573 posts, RR: 2 Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 13274 times:
Quoting mah4546 (Thread starter): AA 973 JFK 2125-0835+1 GIG 763 Daily
AA 974 GIG 2045-0605+1 JFK 763 Daily
Wow will that aircraft really sit in GIG for 12 hours?
sw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6072 posts, RR: 10 Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 13241 times:
Quoting Neo (Reply 1): The only thing that I didn't get it is this horrible schedule for BSB?
BSB-MIA is not the best, but MIA-BSB seems great to me. They must not be able to justify the plane sitting in BSB all day, so I guess there is a choice...a day route north, or no route at all.
Quoting KL808 (Reply 5): Wow will that aircraft really sit in GIG for 12 hours?
Common on South America trips (well, Brazil/Argentina/Chile that is)
Wow will that aircraft really sit in GIG for 12 hours?
That's pretty much standard procedure for US-Deep South America flights (as in GRU, GIG, EZE, SCL) that flights in both directions are red-eyes due to demands. Yes, not very efficient use of planes, but if airlines were to try early morning returns to the US, the flights would be empty and yields disastrous. Only few daylight flights actually work, IIRC AA's GRU-MIA being one of them.
C010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3513 posts, RR: 21 Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 13174 times:
Quoting KL808 (Reply 5): Wow will that aircraft really sit in GIG for 12 hours?
If I would get a dollar for each time someone asks that about a schedule for flights to the Southern Cone...
Yes, that 763 will serve as company to two other AA aircraft that sit at GIG for similar amount of time, not to mention, DL's 767, US' 762, CO's 764, UA's 77E, AF's 744 and JJ's 763 and 332.
Transpac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3139 posts, RR: 14 Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 13086 times:
Hasn't AA run JFK-GIG before?? On a seasonal basis or anything??
I seem to recall a TR about a member flying AA on JFK-GIG. Either that or I'm just losing my mind
IrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1731 posts, RR: 5 Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 12966 times:
Quoting C010T3 (Reply 8):
Yes, that 763 will serve as company to two other AA aircraft that sit at GIG for similar amount of time, not to mention, DL's 767, US' 762, CO's 764, UA's 77E, AF's 744 and JJ's 763 and 332.
Which two AA aircraft sit on the ground at GIG? One of them is the MIA-GIG flight I am sure, but doesn't the other 777 a/c that flies daily into GIG operate as a tag on from GRU? Same with UA's 777 too, right, or is that a nonstop from IAD?
mah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31118 posts, RR: 73 Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 12865 times:
Looks like AA might be the only applicant for these new frequencies, which does not surprise me. The business day is closed and applications were due today, and so far nothing else (but that can change in the next few hours). Delta didn't even apply for anything from this pool, although it did apply to transfer LAX-GRU to DTW-GRU.
Given that, I wonder if AA will make a play for the other three.
Only applies on the days it is nonstop, on the days on which its a tag-on to MIA-EZE it's almost a normal turnaround at roughly 4 hours.
Quoting C010T3 (Reply 11): DL just went crazy with a conditional application for DTW-GRU...
How is that crazy? Obviously DTW is far from ideal for connections in the US other than the Northeast and Upper Midwest, but DTW offers the Asian connections to feed the flight that Atlanta lacks.
C010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3513 posts, RR: 21 Reply 14, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 12838 times:
Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 13): How is that crazy? Obviously DTW is far from ideal for connections in the US other than the Northeast and Upper Midwest, but DTW offers the Asian connections to feed the flight that Atlanta lacks.
Conditional application is the crazy thing about it. I don't have time now to explain. Read it yourself:
DAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 50 Reply 16, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 12777 times:
Quoting C010T3 (Reply 14): Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 13):
How is that crazy? Obviously DTW is far from ideal for connections in the US other than the Northeast and Upper Midwest, but DTW offers the Asian connections to feed the flight that Atlanta lacks.
Conditional application is the crazy thing about it. I don't have time now to explain. Read it yourself:
mah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31118 posts, RR: 73 Reply 17, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 12770 times:
Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 13): Quoting C010T3 (Reply 11):
DL just went crazy with a conditional application for DTW-GRU...
How is that crazy? Obviously DTW is far from ideal for connections in the US other than the Northeast and Upper Midwest, but DTW offers the Asian connections to feed the flight that Atlanta lacks.
DTW-GRU is not crazy. It is a good idea considering how Delta wants to develop Detroit into a Pacific gateway.
The application is crazy: it is being conditioned on frequencies that are non-GRU becoming GRU.
incitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 3777 posts, RR: 14 Reply 20, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 12662 times:
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 17): DTW-GRU is not crazy. It is a good idea considering how Delta wants to develop Detroit into a Pacific gateway.
Even without the frequencies that can be used in GRU after the new terminal is built (I'll say 2014), DL can have a reasonable shot at DTW-GRU as follows:
Run JFK-GRU 6 x week, so that DTW-GRU can be run 3 x week.
Peak season use extra-bilateral frequencies to do JFK-GRU daily and DTW-GRU 5 x week or daily.
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11201 posts, RR: 61 Reply 21, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 12441 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Quoting mah4546 (Thread starter): AA 973 JFK 2125-0835 1 GIG 763 Daily
AA 974 GIG 2045-0605 1 JFK 763 Daily
Finally !
JFK-GIG daily with AA on spetacular times. That's my flight 2 times a month!
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 2): Does GIG ever work from NYC? It seems like it's started and stopped a lot.
If it doesn't work . . . why not?
Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 9): Hasn't AA run JFK-GIG before?? On a seasonal basis or anything??
Use to be a good route, but after 09/11 AA droped and GIG begin to lose domestic feed. Now the airport is back on track, AA even launch the flight in 2008/2009 as seasonal to compete against JJ new service JFK-GIG and in fact, on the last month (02/2009), even launched a few weeks before, was one of the best routes to Brazil. I flew 3 times, two of them packed on C and the other one around 75% full.
Quoting KL808 (Reply 5):
Where will this spare 763 come from?
Two in fact.
Quoting AAEXP (Reply 18): Correct. And on the days where there are two MIA flights, there will be 4 AA planes there.
I doubt they will continue with the tag. I see in the future AA using MIA to this.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
C010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3513 posts, RR: 21 Reply 23, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 12319 times:
Quoting incitatus (Reply 20):
Even without the frequencies that can be used in GRU after the new terminal is built (I'll say 2014), DL can have a reasonable shot at DTW-GRU as follows:
Run JFK-GRU 6 x week, so that DTW-GRU can be run 3 x week.
Peak season use extra-bilateral frequencies to do JFK-GRU daily and DTW-GRU 5 x week or daily.
DL does not need that. After the proceeding, if it comes to that, since the DOT could just dimiss DL's application, recommending a new application after the end of the analysis of the US-DL slot and frequency swap, DL could just apply for UA's dormant frequencies.
mah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31118 posts, RR: 73 Reply 24, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 12283 times:
Quoting AAEXP (Reply 22): Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 21):
I doubt they will continue with the tag. I see in the future AA using MIA to this.
You are probably right. This would provide an important savings on crew cost.
But GRU's parking fees are astronomical. Historically, it has been cheaper to fly a plane to GIG than to park it at GRU. This does, however, flux with fuel prices.
I would not be shocked to see the GRU-GIG tag remain, tagged to DFW-GRU.
Also, with Delta's joke of an application, will AA go the extra mile and apply for the three additional frequencies? Maybe MIA-FOR or additional MIA-CNF?
a.
25 LipeGIG: The cost is the same, Mark. Would be fantastic, i believe a daily CNF-MIA would make more sense. I'm surprised CO did not apply for frequencies, it s
26 C010T3: Yes, the price differentiation was never approved.
27 commavia: Yes. As others have said - this is standard scheduling for deep South America in markets with competition. (It's not necessary in markets with little
28 LipeGIG: So far, the applications show a little more about the Brazilian Market, in my view: - Northeast of Brazil remain a difficult market - DL strategy to f
29 commavia: I don't know if it's so much that it's "not such a good market," but rather that the resources (in the form of frequencies) is so scarce that they ha
30 FL787: Can someone please tell me why the US and Brazil have not established Open Skies yet? It seems like they could follow the US-Japan example and make i
31 commavia: Brazil does not want to open up their market because they are afraid that U.S. carriers will only further dominate the overall U.S.-Brazil market. To
32 C010T3: No, every addition to the Brazil-Portugal bilateral agreement is a new negotiation with conditions. For example, Portugal agreed to limit the frequen
33 FlyWhisperjets: AA doesnt over night/day the crew....Just sleep and fly back
34 7673mech: I thought I read that the cabin crew sleeps and flys back while the cockpit crew had flies back on 3rd day.
35 LipeGIG: I would agree with open skies if they exclude both Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro. This could be a way to finally develop the South of Brazil, of cours
36 Transpac787: The cabin crew do what's called 'bullet turns' or 'rocket turns'. I've heard other terms but I don't remember. Anyhow, yes, they get in early in the
37 mah4546: AA does not need to apply to fly a GIG-CNF tag. It can be added tomorrow if AA chooses.
38 incitatus: It seems AA at BSB is a done deal. An important question: What is DL going to do with ATL-BSB? Without MIA-BSB, traffic would likely at least pay for
39 LipeGIG: Looking to the schedule, and comparing to JJ current service, it's very interest allowing late night connections out of JFK (TAM in the IATA winter d
40 OP3000: The departure times are clearly designed to maximize connections at their respective ends (GIG for JJ; JFK for AA). I expect both to survive on the r
41 LipeGIG: Agree. The good chance CO had was to apply now and fight for the market. There's enough market for 2 players, specially without JL in the near future
42 tonytifao: I think AA is more than happy with MIA-CNF. I'm flying this route 4-5 times a month. Great loads, great cargo! Just got back today and flight was ove
43 hardiwv: Very good development. We can also expect TAM to introduce GIG-JFK daily A330 soon. Agreed, I dont see anything "crazy" about DL game with moving LAX
44 LAXdude1023: Agreed. It makes no sense to drop the tag compeltely. It just doesnt make sense to have a nonstop JFK-GIG and have the tag on from JFK. DFW-GRU-GIG m
45 airbazar: I don't see a problem with MIA-BSB. It leaves late enough to allow plenty of connections from other North American cities and it still arrives in BSB
46 commavia: So two questions to pose: 1. Seeing as the deadline was apparently yesterday, were there any other applications? Is this it? Just 11 requested by AA a
47 LipeGIG: So far no... AA seems to be the big winner on this application. Only AA requested the frequencies the way DOT offers. DL put some "if" clauses and ca
48 mah4546: AA will get 11 and the other three will either go unassigned or be assigned to Delta with the condition that nobody else asks to use them sooner.
49 LipeGIG: But they would not apply for more frequencies right now, so far. Although i can imagine that AA can apply for the 3x remaining frequencies to make CN
50 mah4546: Well, regardless DOT is going to have to go through the typical process because there are competing applications, so at least 2-3 months absent DOT a
51 incitatus: Assuming the minimum time to make a connection G3-AA is 90 minutes, any arrival before 8:10 am should qualify. The current G3 schedule has arrivals 8
52 C010T3: Which is what I think the DOT should do. It's not that I think that DL shouldn't fly DTW-GRU, but it's because it sets a bad precedence.
53 AwysBSB: I can imagine what will happen if AA succeeds with its current idea: First: AA will take DL out of its way at BSB, the same way occurred at REC; Seco
54 mah4546: That is never going to happen. AA will be effectively competing simply by the fact that it is flying to MIA, which accounts for half of the U.S.-BSB
55 LipeGIG: Agree, but to make both daily don't you think MIA-CNF-BSB-MIA is not a bad idea 3x weekly ?
56 mah4546: I'm not so sure. CNF daily is best served as a tag-on from GIG or GRU with a widebody. BSB-U.S. market is really not that large. High-yielding, yes,
57 incitatus: Depending on what DL does with MAO, BSB and FOR, there may be several of these frequencies available. I'd venture into saying ATL-FOR will be gone. I
58 AwysBSB: AA, better than any other one, would feel BSB-MIA retiring pax from CNF-MIA. Its solution for that would be triangular routes, the same way of MIA-SS
59 mah4546: Why? Miami is by far the largest local market to Brasilia, followed by New York and Orlando. MIA is by far the best fitted hub for the market - it pr
60 LipeGIG: I agree. And this draft just comprove the fact that DL confirmed they are not able to fly to secondary markets in a profitable way. After ATL-MAO, AT
61 mah4546: If so much of the market wasn't concentrated on South Florida, it would be a problem. But the market is so concentrated, that it doesn't matter much.
62 LipeGIG: Well, next summer we will realize it. If AA got success (and i believe it will) with its MIA-BSB, then DL would be in a position where probably in on
63 commavia: Now, what about the whole Delta GIG-to-transfer-to-GRU business? Why wouldn't the DOT go for that in order to supposedly preserve competition and pre
64 C010T3: Because of the timing. Delta should have done that last year when there were no obstacles. Now, they have to wait to see if the deal with US Airways
65 mah4546: This is the second time that Delta has tried that nonsense. Delta tried to do just that with the last round of applications, and DOT expressly refuse
66 incitatus: We often overlook the potential for South America to Central/South America connections. MIA-BSB will also greatly benefit from capital-to-capital tra
67 Rafabozzolla: I think it is just interesting that AA applied for MIA-BSB-MIA with a red-eye and a daylight 757 flight, whereas MIA-CNF-MIA is red eye WB both ways.
68 LipeGIG: In my view, commavia, DOT would grant to AA the 11 frequencies based on the fact that it was the sole carrier to apply for the frequencies in the way
69 AwysBSB: ATL is by far the best connection hub with nostop links to the largest and to the smallest markets too. The service ATL-BSB can coexist with other se
70 commavia: And all those infinite connections don't really much, though, when - again - the vast majority of travelers between the U.S. and Brasilia are coming
71 mah4546: MIA connects BSB with one-stop connections to over 99% of the demand between the United States and Brasilia. Why do you want to believe there is dema
72 incitatus: No need to go to check in if it is a single ticket interlining to the AA flight. Did you look at my post #51? The possible connections are listed - t
73 LipeGIG: Thanks for the remark, i did not paid the attention needed to this post. If we take a closer look, lets exclude GIG, CGH and MAO as these places have
74 Rafabozzolla: I understand AA's logic behind the dual red-eye, what surprises me is the fact that AA thinks BSB could be run with a daylight. Again, my question is
75 Neo: I Honestly think that AA is underestimating BSB pax with this early day light service. If passengers have to choose between that and DL's red eye, the
76 commavia: I don't think so. If the choice is between a redeye to a connection hub with next to no demand that requires a connection to virtually everywhere a B
77 LipeGIG: I don't think so. CNF have a component, that BSB is not so strong for sure: cargo. In the other hand, CNF is a mix of a very large VFR market (the bi
78 commavia: By my count, AA's present summer schedule requires 42 777s - 5 short of their 47 in the fleet. That does not account for any U.S. Defense Department
79 incitatus: Let's not exclude GIG and CGH. I have been trying to gets tickets to SP and the next few days and flights are quite full. A $100 or $200 fare differe
80 AAEXP: For BSB travelers to Europe and the US West Coast the late afternoon arrival in MIA is actually fine in my opinion. I prefer to arrive in LAX in the e
81 LipeGIG: Thanks, AA applied two days ago for changes on their network to Brazil and confirm the change on two of the tree flights from Miami to Sao Paulo, whi
82 LipeGIG: That's true, and in fact exists nowadays with both Rio and Sao Paulo markets. I still see people flying to New York from Rio thru Sao Paulo and even
83 OP3000: DTW-GRU is going to have a hard time - weak O&D, DTW is too far north for most connections, not the best premium product, and ample competition i
84 LipeGIG: But we are talking about something good for the traffic originated in BSB. If we look into someone that travel from other city, they need to wake up
85 mah4546: Most Brazil-LAX traffic flows via the U.S. (AA controls that market); as does the huge majority of Brazil-Caribbean traffic (again, largely on AA). C
86 realsim: There's some missing 763 flights in your list. Right now I don't have the actual one, but in February of this year the following routes were operated
87 OP3000: Good point - but a MIA-BSB-MIA flight is designed mostly for O&D sake, particularly when there are plenty of non-stops from GRU and GIG. And the
88 mah4546: I see. I misread. Though CM actually carries more MIA-Brazil traffic than it does LAX-Brazil. CM is popular with its low fares in the market.
89 LipeGIG: Thanks, but i tried to limit my search to overnight flights. Some of the operations like JFK-SDQ in fact use planes that seems to fly MIA-JFK-SDQ-JFK
90 incitatus: To some extent I agree. But travelers will make choices based on a bunch of different factors, timing being one of them. For some of those connecting
91 AwysBSB: Besides ATL offers BSB cheap links to HNL, NRT and ICN, it reaches Canada and the US latin western coast much better than MIA. UA could use 757s simi
92 mah4546: But those markets are tiny. It is irrelevant. BSB-HNL is less than 20 people per year. MIA-BSB is more than 30,000! I don't know what the "US latin w
93 commavia: How many people travel each day - no, each year - between BSB and HNL, NRT, ICN, Canada, and the "US latin western coast?" The answer: not many. For
94 DFWEagle: The DOT has no responsibility to “protect” a weak and ineffective competitor at the expense of the US travelling public, who would clearly benefi
95 AwysBSB: Ok, they can be “irrelevant”, but they still are destinations and, the same way of other “tiny” markets, each of them is still possible to ge
96 LipeGIG: True. But i expect to find more frames being used on int'l long haul and in fact, there's a good portion of the 763 fleet on domestic flights. This g
97 mah4546: Who cares? There is one flight from BSB that connects to one or two flights from those cities each at either point. You're arguments make no sense -
98 AwysBSB: It is small a market indeed, but IAD-BSB can coexist with the routes I mentioned in my reply 69. DL did not ask for more frequencies because it knows
99 C010T3: Quite the opposite, AA is actually being competitive.
100 mah4546: Right now a good portion of the 763 fleet is on troop carrier duty for the U.S. government that ends in September. Indeed, it is tiny. I am willing t
101 LipeGIG: AwysBSB, you don't get MAH4546 point: a hub does not need to offer 20 flights a day to one destination, they need to offer a quick connection. That's
102 AwysBSB: Competitiveness is not about being predatory, it is about being loyal. There are times when certain US domestic flights are more expensive than other
103 mah4546: That makes no sense. AA is coming to become a second player in the market. What else do you expect? UA is not coming. CO is not coming. It's AA or no
104 LipeGIG: I don't expect TAM to join this market so soon. They even decided to end BSB-EZE. I believe it's small. US Government try to be closer to the markets
105 DFWEagle: An anticompetitive move is one which reduces or eliminates competition. AA will INCREASE competition to the market, giving passengers more choices an
106 AwysBSB: As I told before, TAM is not the only airline that could launch a service between BSB and the US. AA is not providing any other increase, instead of
107 AA787: It's both. AA wants to serve BSB. They think they can make money there. They probably WILL eliminate DL because DL cannot serve the destination as we
108 LipeGIG: No it's not, but lets say that if UA does not even try to fly to GIG year-round, BSB would not be their choice.
109 AwysBSB: BSB is quite different of GIG, since it is the third largest base of JJ which gives UA the opportunity to operate day-light flights with 757 to Brazi
110 mah4546: First of all, a 757 really can't operate IAD-BSB. It is really stretching the limits of the plane. Secondly, UA does not operate any 757 aircraft lon
111 LAXdude1023: Im not sure you really know what competition is if this is your opinion. Competitive means that airlines fight for what they want. Being compeititve
112 LipeGIG: Well, even the second largest does not produce a flight. UA focus on Brazil is very limited and i doubt they will venture any time soon into IAD-BSB
113 OP3000: I'm surprised no one has mentioned that AA now has a Brazilian code-share partner, whereas DL doesn't. That's probably a lot more significant a diffe
114 LipeGIG: We make mention about this when we consider the connections AA would got or not at BSB. Plus on DTW topic discussion, i raised the point that DL does
115 AwysBSB: No at all. Competitive means that each airline is making its best to captivate passengers, what is far different from tripping a competitor up. That
116 mah4546: AA is not neglecting anything. AA continues to offer daily service to SSA/REC and four weekly flights to CNF. The new service is excellent for Brasil
117 LipeGIG: Agree, but remember that UA now just cover Sao Paulo. They wont compete for Rio's market, which accounts for around 25% of their passengers. You have
118 crAAzy: I believe a better word would be "marginalize DL" in Brazil and I would argue this is exactly what AA should be and is doing now .... just as DL trie
119 incitatus: Instead of trying to glue together a regulatory justification for you personal preference, you are welcome to express it as your personal preference.
120 LipeGIG: Agree. I don't linke personally how they manage (DL) to enter into markets in Brazil and now are using less than they got approval. They couldn't Inc
121 incitatus: Yes, they could. http://www.regulations.gov/search/Re...#documentDetail?R=090000648067e770 Download the pdf document, look at the first paragraph of
122 AwysBSB: UA is still taking pax from GIG with its own metal, and the capacity UA could offer out of BSB would not be bigger than that. JJ as the only Brazilia
123 LipeGIG: Thanks for the correction. It's a surprise and a good point that no one have applied for BSB on the first round, considering it's so big as CNF. Also
124 mah4546: It is not surprising. CNF-U.S. is a much bigger market due to a strong VFR component.
125 mah4546: American Airlines has filed with DOT just today for immediate approval of its application and to have Delta's application thrown out as being outside
126 AAEXP: You are so right, BSB is a mess from check-in to arrivals. Not worthy of the capital of Brazil.
127 tonytifao: Is BSB that bad? Never traveled thru BSB. I find it hard to believe that it is anything worse than GIG and GRU
129 LipeGIG: For international flights, because of lack of structure, yes. I didn't go so deep ... i just said that the international area of the airport is quite
130 AAEXP: Well, if you think GIG and GRU are problematic, wait until you experience BSB. Lipe is just too kind and diplomatic
131 LipeGIG: I just remember always that all airports are managed by the same corporation... Infraero. At least GIG T1 is getting better !
132 mah4546: If DOT sides with AA, then AA will have to decide whether or not it wants to apply for those three frequencies. So it will be interesting to see if A
133 AAEXP: And herein lies the key to all problems. The sooner the Brazilian government realizes the "pepino" it has on its hand in commercial airport infrastru
134 LipeGIG: Agree, i can't see AA so aggressive considering that with 3 frequencies, all DL can do is to apply for 3x additional GIG-ATL to release some unrestri
135 AwysBSB: BSB really does not support 3 players from the US, it supports DL and UA or just AA. As AA empire in Brazil got too big, DL and UA still have the opp
136 mah4546: Not sure why you keep talking about UA. United isn't coming. And no way can BSB support two airlines that both overfly half the market! BSB might be
137 C010T3: Not even that before there's a definiton in the US-DL deal.
138 MiAAmi: Interesting schedule. Crews that arrive on Friday morning will have to layover until Tuesday.[Edited 2010-04-12 17:52:43]
139 mah4546: There is no Friday morning arrival. I think you might be misinterpreting the schedule. Those are the days the flight does not operate.
140 VC10er: Who's product is better? AA or JJ? And why isn't there a tag from GIG? Like Porto Alegre or Curitiba?
141 MiAAmi: Thanks for the correction. Looked at the schedule wrong. please disregard.
142 LipeGIG: In my view JJ still have a better product. A tag to POA would be a very interesting development, specially now that AA will fly JFK and MIA-GIG. But
143 cws818: No, BSB is a market; it is not a market exclusively for DL - sorry to be the bearer of bad news. It doesn't support UA at present, nor is it likely t
144 LipeGIG: Yes and they did not apply for any additional frequencies. They use their time to plan to use non-Sao Paulo frequencies not with Brasilia.
145 VC10er: Is the TAM business product better than AA due to service, schedule or seat? I haven't been in the new AA biz seat, but I see it's an angled lie flat.
146 LipeGIG: VC10er, i travelled several times on both products. AA 772 biz seat is so comfortable as JJ 332, but the 763 biz seat have a negative item: the "port
147 MaverickM11: It's definitely a one carrier market for now, and if that carrier is AA, no one else really has a chance on the US side.
148 OP3000: To the question about the JJ seat, its full-flat which for some people (myself not included) does make a difference.
149 LipeGIG: Not any more. All JJ A332 fleet is lie-flat now. I wouldn't say that considering the market isn't so big. Fare will be a big factor for the definitio
150 mah4546: AA will be able to charge higher fares to the MIA market since it has a non-stop flight. AA will also offer a far superior long-haul business product
151 MaverickM11: It's definitely not big. I think people really overestimate how big the BSB market is. It's a little bit bigger than FOR in terms of US market size.
152 LipeGIG: No doubt AA will be able to charge a premium. But the point is, if the fare is a little smaller than currently flights thru Sao Paulo or Rio de Janei
153 LipeGIG: It seems that DL is asking DOT authorization to code-share with... GOL.... out of Brasilia, Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo.
154 AwysBSB: South America is not a strong market for UA, but it shows opportunities in some parts. As I told, BSB is JJ's thrird biggest base and UA can explore
155 LipeGIG: Yes but their hubs are not the best for South American. People from South America looks for Florida and New York mostly.
156 AwysBSB: Florida is quite well served, as there is a large quantity of flights being operated by AA and by the main Latin American airlines out of many cities
157 crosswinds21: So the fact that AA has over 10 daily nonstops between MIA and LGA and 5 to 7 daily nonstops between MIA and JFK (mostly on widebodies) is irrelevant
158 LipeGIG: Agree that is well served, but is the biggest O&D from Brazil, and BSB so far, do not offer a non-stop. You have many option: DL thru ATL, UA thr
159 AwysBSB: BSB do not offer and do not need to, as there are good and many one-stop options to MIA. From most of the cities there are few good options. From BSB
160 incitatus: There is no proof yet that BSB can sustain even a single US carrier year-round. FOR could not, at least not year-round. Over July, December and Janua
161 LAXdude1023: Dude, you should quit while youre not that far behind. Your logic is twisted at best. Youre concerned about one-stop flights to NYC yet dont seem to
162 MaverickM11: It's a toss up between NYC and MIA; NYC might be a little bit bigger True. The jury is still out on most anything other than GRU/GIG at this point.
163 LipeGIG: Like LIM, and now LP is applying for LIM-BSB. It's a customer decision, not belong to you, me or any other member. Of course there's JJ customers wil
164 AwysBSB: Actually, that is a twisted logic, since you are not talking about market forces, but AA's interests over the others'. LAN is among the airlines I me
165 DFWEagle: What gives you the right to dictate what needs to be offered? There are thousands of people travelling between the USA and BSB – why not give them
166 AwysBSB: Where did I "dictate" anything? Because the right of pax chosing an airline needs to be respected, DOT should not give AA the opportunity to drive DL
167 FL787: This is maybe the worst argument I've ever seen. So the DOT should respect pax' right of choosing airlines by not allowing them a choice at all?
168 mah4546: Move on already. The route is going to be approved, probably in a matter of 14-21 days. AA will be flying to Brasilia starting October 1st - that is
169 LipeGIG: I hope also, then i can manage my future trips on the non-stop It's not only what they want, is how to manage the opportunities created by the billat
170 crosswinds21: This makes no sense at all. By having AA serve Brasilia, pax ARE being given the right to CHOOSE an airline. They can now choose between DL and AA. I
171 LipeGIG: So with the decision made by Delta to grant 4 frequencies to AA, American now more than ever will be able to launch both MIA-BSB and JFK-GIG shortly.
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