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United And US Airways In Merger Talks Part II  
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 17472 times:
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With part I already on almost 300 posts and too long for our A.net members without a good internet connection, please continue discussions here.

Link to First Part:

United And US Airways In Merger Talks (by bioyuki Apr 7 2010 in Civil Aviation)


Regards,

Felipe


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
68 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinethegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 17355 times:

I still believe CO is the best for UA....

This is the fourth time around for UA US merger talks....maybe the 4th is the charm?



Our Returning Champion
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7521 posts, RR: 23
Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 17307 times:

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 1):
This is the fourth time around for UA US merger talks....maybe the 4th is the charm?

   I can only count three including this one, the 'original' in 2000 and another try in 2007-2008.

Was there another one?

[Edited 2010-04-09 16:59:04]


"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 17263 times:

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 2):
Was there another one?

US also tried to hitch themselves up with DL back in 2006 but there was a strong backlash from unions regarding the deal. So this would be the third time with UA, plus another with DL.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7521 posts, RR: 23
Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 17209 times:

Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 3):
US also tried to hitch themselves up with DL back in 2006 but there was a strong backlash from unions regarding the deal. So this would be the third time with UA, plus another with DL.

No offence but, when one looks at his (thegreatRDU) earlier post (see below); he only mentions UA-US hook-ups and NOT the aborted US-DL merger of 2006:

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 1):
This is the fourth time around for UA US merger talks....maybe the 4th is the charm?

So, technically, this may be the 4th time for US (actually 5th when one counts that HP-merger which DID happen) this past decade; but I still only count three attempted UA-US merger talks (including this one).



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineRJ777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1852 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 16942 times:

I just hope they wait until a definitive agreement is signed until they launch a website about it!

User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3083 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 16849 times:

Quoting RJ777 (Reply 5):
they launch a website about it

what will be the names of the website now?

they already used transformingusairways.com and i forget what the HP/US website of..



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3083 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 16801 times:

Oh and, notice that CLT can sustain year round service to smaller sized cities in the Northeast. ATL can't.


E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5961 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 16159 times:

According to ALPA the reports of merger discussions are being greatly overstated...

http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/stor...cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32791 posts, RR: 72
Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 16024 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 7):
Oh and, notice that CLT can sustain year round service to smaller sized cities in the Northeast. ATL can't.

Markets? The only market which in the region with Charlotte service that does not have Atlanta service is Wilkes-Barre.

Other markets do have more capacity, but, regardless, that's a product of US Airways' network strength in the Northeast. It has nothing to do with the local Charlotte market.



a.
User currently offlinesurfandsnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2870 posts, RR: 30
Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 15691 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 7):
Oh and, notice that CLT can sustain year round service to smaller sized cities in the Northeast. ATL can't.

Why is this relevant?!?

1) ATL can sustain year round service to smaller sized cities everywhere else (Florida, Deep South, Midwest, Western U.S., and int'l)

2) Should a UA/US merger occur, CLT-Northeast service would be drastically reduced. UA would focus on connecting Northeast pax through a strengthened IAD hub, while CLT would mainly serve as a gateway to the Deep South and possibly the Caribbean.



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5111 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 15345 times:

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 1):


I still believe CO is the best for UA....

So does CO apparently:

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2010/0...tinental-interested-in-merger.html


Continental Airlines Inc. would make the best merger partner for United Airlines, creating the world’s largest carrier, an analyst said Friday.

Executives at Continental started reviewing options this week after hearing that United is talking to US Airways Group Inc. about merging, according to a person familiar with the matter who asked not to be identified because details are confidential.

Together, Houston-based Continental and UAL Corp.’s United would surpass Delta Air Lines Inc. for the top spot in global passenger traffic.



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineJFKMan From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 598 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 15211 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 11):
So does CO apparently:

Thats why I am willing to bet a triple merger will occur! UA/US/CO



US / AA - JFK / TPA
User currently offlineBrandonfsu05 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 152 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 14342 times:

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 10):
Why is this relevant?!?

1) ATL can sustain year round service to smaller sized cities everywhere else (Florida, Deep South, Midwest, Western U.S., and int'l)

2) Should a UA/US merger occur, CLT-Northeast service would be drastically reduced. UA would focus on connecting Northeast pax through a strengthened IAD hub, while CLT would mainly serve as a gateway to the Deep South and possibly the Caribbean.

I think it's more obvious that PHL will be drawn down...CLT connects passengers to the northeast now and US Airways has a large hub in PHL. So, I don't understand why the service would be cut since if anything PHL hub will be folded into IAD and DCA. That leaves us basically with the same situation as US Airways is working with now.

Additionally...you do realize where a significant portion of Carribean pax come from...the Northeast and Canada. So If UA/US wants to continue a Carribean operation it wouldn't make since to reduce CLT-Northeast service.


User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5192 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 14143 times:

I see this as the impetus for CO to walk down the aisle with UA. CO is who UA wants anyway.


Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineweb500sjc From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 740 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 14060 times:
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Quoting JFKMan (Reply 12):

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 11):
So does CO apparently:

Thats why I am willing to bet a triple merger will occur! UA/US/CO


I'd wait a second on that, it would be one or the other, and if COs talks are
serious I would expect CO and UA to try and tie the knot. I think UA dosent reallywant US, we all know what is going on as a result from the last US merger. Also with that triple merger it would have to go past DOJ aproval, which is a none exsistant to very slim chance of passing scince DL-NW almost didn't make it through, it kinda makes you wonder if a CO/UA wold make it through, let alone a CO/UA/US merger.

In these talks I expect UA to choose CO first, US second; but what I really want to se is what happens to the airline not picked to merge- will they pull a CO and switch to OW or Sky team as a result of the merger, because they would definatly be he odd man out.



Boiler Up!
User currently offlinevctony From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 14014 times:

If CO and UA merge, US could be a good fit for AA. Back in the 1990s AA wanted US. US has some assets that AA could covet (like LGA slots - provided the slot swap with DL doesn't go through) and a strong market position in the Southeast. AA could also close down the PHX hub and relegate PHL to a focus city and use US's A32Xs to retire some additional Super80s.

User currently offlinerelaxitsfedex7 From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 62 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 13940 times:

this is how It's going to go down, UA and CO will eventually end up merging with each other leaving USairways out to defend for itself . I surely don't think that AA and US will merge. Why because of labor issues between management and the unions.

User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8548 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 13809 times:

The ball is really in CO's court. Either they bid for UA and acquire them, or else US will... basically. UA is fodder, they won't be the controlling manager of any of the prospective combos.

User currently offlineHNL-Jack From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 819 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 13624 times:

As much as Tilton has professed merger as his chosen way to resolve the overly competitive U.S. based airline industry, I would seriously doubt that he would see a merger with US as the best route for UA to move forward. In the past eighteen months UA has taken too many steps to rebuild its management team, reduce debt, enhance service and restructure its fleet and route system to take such a huge step backward. Trying to overcome the issues still haunting US from its last
merger are simply too many and would likely get worse with even more complex union issues than have created such difficult situation at US. CO is the best fit although I personally would like to see UA continue on its present course of an alliance for a year or two before considering that option.

One possible, although unlikely scenario might be the splitting up of US. UA might be able to absorb the pre-merger US system leaving the former America West system to someone like AA. UA doesn't need the western portion of the US operation and AA might be able to make good use of it. One could make the case that US is still very much two airlines operating under one umbrella and such a split might be a way to resolve much of what hinders US today. Could be interesting.



Grew up in the business and continued the family tradition.
User currently offlinecba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 13195 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 11):
So does CO apparently:

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2010/0...tinental-interested-in-merger.html


Continental Airlines Inc. would make the best merger partner for United Airlines, creating the world’s largest carrier, an analyst said Friday.

Executives at Continental started reviewing options this week after hearing that United is talking to US Airways Group Inc. about merging, according to a person familiar with the matter who asked not to be identified because details are confidential.

Together, Houston-based Continental and UAL Corp.’s United would surpass Delta Air Lines Inc. for the top spot in global passenger traffic.
Quoting drerx7 (Reply 14):
I see this as the impetus for CO to walk down the aisle with UA. CO is who UA wants anyway.

  

As I said in the previous thread... this whole thing is likely a ploy to test Smisek's mettle.

1. CO has been gun-shy with merger talks... this could be a PR ploy to get UA-CO negotiations started again.
2. If CO has indicated interest, this could be a financial ploy to start a bid war, inducing CO to make a better offer for UA.

Quoting vctony (Reply 16):
AA could also close down the PHX hub and relegate PHL to a focus city and use US's A32Xs to retire some additional Super80s.

Why would AA want to close PHX? They are weak in the Southwest region as is... PHX would fill an important gap in their network.


User currently offlinevctony From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 13153 times:

Quoting cba (Reply 20):

Why would AA want to close PHX? They are weak in the Southwest region as is... PHX would fill an important gap in their network.

PHX is a boom/bust market that even in "boom" times is notoriously low-yielding. PHX would be a good operation for AA to possibly sell to B6 (who might be able to make it work). Not to mention WN already flies to most of the major business markets from PHX.


User currently offlinebmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2280 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 12924 times:

There was a report on NBC saying UA pilots are strongly opposed to a USair merger. I can't see how this deal can go ahead without the UA pilot's union approval....


The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1579 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 12807 times:

Quoting cba (Reply 20):
Why would AA want to close PHX? They are weak in the Southwest region as is... PHX would fill an important gap in their network.

VCTony says it.

Quoting vctony (Reply 21):
PHX is a boom/bust market that even in "boom" times is notoriously low-yielding. PHX would be a good operation for AA to possibly sell to B6 (who might be able to make it work). Not to mention WN already flies to most of the major business markets from PHX.

Also I don't see anything PHX brings that doesn't duplicate LAX and/or DFW. It would be adding a "middle" hub between these two hubs that already have good geographical coverage. If you ran a merged US-AA and had full authority to close hubs, I really don't think you'd close LAX in favor of PHX -- PHX serves its purpose well given that US has no other Western hub after LAS has been shuttered, but isn't optimal given better options such as LAX after a potential merger.


User currently offlinelegacytravel From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1067 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 12786 times:

As a person who just flew UA as of yesterday, I can officially say they are a an LCC with a full can of soda. Not one snack was given, the flights were smooth and the crews were professional getting, me to my destinations 30 minutes early each segment. I then volunteered my seats for the last leg ORD-MKE and received 3 RT vouchers, 30 in food and bus transportation home.
UA is nothing special, you get in sit down then get to your destination they seem like a good fit for US.

Mark in MKE



I love the smell of Jet fuel in the Morning
25 will777 : Same thing happened with me on US yesterday. Full can of soda, had to pay for snacks. I was on DL last week and the week before that and you didn't g
26 ca2ohHP : I'm not so sure that any of this is about who UA "wants." The original NYT article indicated this would be a stock transaction (like DL/NW) with US b
27 milesrich : US tried buy Delta in an unfriendly takeover while DL was in Chapter 11. Delta did a good job of convincing the creditors not to accept the deal, bec
28 DualQual : I don't think there will be any kind of AA/CO tie up. The only thing either will do will be to bid on pieces of the wreckage that UA/US would become.
29 legacytravel : F9 was the same way. It was an Am flight so no cookies, so there would have been snacks if after 10 AM. The F9 employees on the flight were great. Th
30 will777 : My US flight left FLL at 19:20 and got in to PHL after 22:00 so I was surprised that no snacks were provided.
31 avek00 : Here's my thinking on the subject: US' overarching goal is not a merger for its own sake, but rather a preservation of its economic interests. Think a
32 mah4546 : Caribbean does fine, but US is nothing in the Caribbean today like it was around 2000-2004. I think what happened was that Delta quickly started expa
33 avek00 : I stand corrected, and have edited my earlier post accordingly. Thanks.
34 wn676 : PHX-SJO has been running daily since December 17th, though it does go back to Saturday-only after tomorrow.
35 United1 : Not according to the Wall Street Journal... fair use extract "If a deal is reached, it will be an all-stock transaction, and United will be the survi
36 surfandsnow : Why do you say this?? Sure, they have dropped a lot of flying from BOS and LGA since then (not to mention the ill-fated FLL focus city), but they sti
37 USAirALB : Just saying that US has mainline service from CLT to many smaller NE cities and DL doesn't. ALB has 3x CR7s to ATL on DL. ALB has 1x 733, 1x 734, and
38 timboflier215 : I think United will be the surviving name, but US Airways management will be calling the shots - same way that America West actually took over US Air
39 FWAERJ : Was transformingusairways.com for the DL proposal? May I suggest: unitingtheworld.com (a play on an old UA slogan) oneglobalairline.com (newglobalair
40 Jacobin777 : Tilton has already stated that he wants to run the show and if UA takes over, he certainly will. Parker will definitely be "up there" as well.
41 etops1 : NO ONE knows what will happen except for Tilton,Parker,and maybe even Smisek. You think that Smisek with such close ties to UAL did not know about thi
42 ouboy79 : Don't forget master mind fund raiser Bruce Lakefield is still on the board and hanging around as well.
43 Post contains images ca2ohHP : Great post, couldn't have said it better myself.
44 mah4546 : BOS flying to the Caribbean is actually up quite a bit. US Airways capacity to the Caribbean today is down from its peak heydays around 2004-05, and w
45 Post contains images FLYAWA : US will once again be the jilted lover, causing runaway bride UA to finally walk the aisle with CO
46 Post contains images cokepopper : If this US/UAL thing doesn't go through, I hope someone keeps an eye on Mr. Parker. We know what happened after his failed attempt at raiding Delta.
47 FLALEFTY : This potential merger is DOA. Just like it was a decade ago. The two airlines have major operations in DCA and IAD, places that congressmen and other
48 USAirALB : Nah, I think it was for HP or their reconstructing. CLT-KIN, isnt really a leisure route. La Romana... I've actually never heard of it until a few we
49 Post contains links seriophoto : Merger talk between UA and US True, obviously DOJ will play a big role and will be a big test for administration. Maybe not a triple merger but certai
50 Tommy767 : Your absolutely right. I think in the end it doesn't involve a merger between UA/US, rather UA/CO. I think Parker is full of it. CLT/DCA and a newer
51 AirStairs : At this point it seems that US is in no position to go it alone in the long term. I'd love to see the airline go, as they have increasingly frustrated
52 mah4546 : You make an excuse for Kingston because it isn't leisure and then say Grenada will be back. Grenada is almost pure VFR. The market is absolutely tiny
53 Post contains links STT757 : Analyst upgrade CO in expectation that the airline will bid for UA; http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1218320320100412?type=marketsNews
54 ca2ohHP : I think the legacies need US more than this forum gives US credit for. If US were to close shop tomorrow LGA, DCA, CLT, PHL and even PHX would be over
55 FL787 : When they say bid, do they mean offering CO stock?
56 AndrewUber : I wouldn't put a great deal of confidence in the information gathered from union pilots. US and UA are talking, there's no point in discussing whethe
57 USAirALB : Well I'm not sure, and I could be wrong, but could US see it as a pain bringing an RJ to the INTL arrivals area. I think the Dominican Republic is th
58 mah4546 : It is nowhere close to being the most popular for Americans. Aruba, the Bahamas, the Mexican-Caribbean coast, Puerto Rico, Jamaica and the Virgin Isl
59 FutureUScapt : Only until 02May, when it is all discontinued. A very small portion of that may return for the peak winter season, but that remains to be seen, US ne
60 MrSkyGuy : Any updates? The media wires suddenly went radio silent on the subject of the USA/UAL merger talks.
61 yellowtail : Actually they were 5Xweek CLT-BZE until this week....when it reverts back to weekend only service. I say go ahead US-UA....then let AA-CO tie up and
62 kiwiandrew : Congratulations , you have just explained in a couple of succinct sentences exactly why an AA/CO merger would never be permitted .
63 USAirALB : Curious-why did they drop it. It was a weird route. Do they even have flights to NYC?
64 mah4546 : La Romana is a privately owned airport and its owners essentially dictate service levels. La Romana is a niche destination that is popular with very
65 fascm170 : LRM never picked up loads and IIRC it was a subsidized flight. Flying an A319 for 15-20 passengers was crazy. GGT was flown by PSA on a 70 seater sat
66 yellowtail : CO and AA know this very well....As much as 20% of AA tickets reserved / sold on BZE-MIA come the day before departure at the CTO...we are last minut
67 fascm170 : Yellowtail, US opened the station in 2001. TA business has been decaying slowly too. I heard that Rudy was sick. Is he ok?
68 yellowtail : Are you sure about 2001? TA has picked up LFs since they dropped IAH....BZE-SAL runs about 80% right now...so why they would drop a frequency for the
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