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The Future Of QF 73 And QF 74.  
User currently offlineSexyAdonis From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 120 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 18213 times:

Hello everyone! Just for your information I just joined the Airliners.net community and this is my first posting:

For those of you familiar with the route planning/strategies of QANTAS, sources have informed me that QANTAS is pondering the possibility of transferring the SYD/SFO/SYD route to Jet Star as soon as this carrier incorporates the Boeing 787 to its fleet.

To what extend would this be viable? Your precious comments and insights are welcome.

I am a regular twice a month on the QF 73 and QF 74 and always prefer it because it operates with one of the six Boeing 747-400ER (VH-OEE/EF/EG/EH/EI/EJ) configured with New Boeing Signature Interiors or with one of the three Boeing 747-400 with GE engines purchased from Malaysian Airlines and Asiana (VH-OEB/EC/ED) which in my opinion is a fantastic aircraft. In addition to that the San Francisco International Terminal is a world a part from the TBIT at LAX. Services, choices of restaurants, shopping and so forth are far much better in SFO then LAX.

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5244 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 18003 times:

Quoting SexyAdonis (Thread starter):
or with one of the three Boeing 747-400 with GE engines purchased from Malaysian Airlines and Asiana (VH-OEB/EC/ED)

I believe 2 of these 747's have recently been retired.

As for the 787's they will be waiting a long time!


User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 17966 times:

Qf may be pondering this BUT we are still talking years before the 787.


Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlineSexyAdonis From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 17962 times:

Quoting SexyAdonis (Thread starter):
I believe 2 of these 747's have recently been retired.

That explains why in recent flights I always get one of the six ER and I have not come across the ex-Malaysian and Asiana jets for a while.

Thank you ANstar

Sexy Adonis.


User currently offlineAirNiugini From Australia, joined Mar 2010, 235 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 17938 times:

Hey man, happy 1st thread...

Who really knows about what Qantas is going to do. I thought they were happy with the current mix of QF and JQ and that there is no further plans to replace Qantas with Jetstar services, and future growth at JQ will be more organic instead of replacing.... if that makes sense...

Maybe they might operate the SFO service with both tails like they do into HNL, or they may even fly a QF 787 to SFO.

I'd love to see the Qantas brand growing again.. maybe oneday soon ey..   


User currently offlinetayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 17936 times:

I wouldn't be surprised if QF mainline eventually moves to daily 787s configured in 3 class J/Y+/Y on SYD-SFO when they get them and JQ tests the MEL-SFO market when they get their 787s.

San Francisco/Sydney/Melbourne have too many high yielding (predominantly tech / telco) businesses at either end to completely downgrade to JQ, and California's not going to be in the doldrums forever and by the time the 787s do arrive I'd dare say things will be a lot rosier.

likewise SYD/MEL-LAS are prime JQ 787 candidates (i.e 3x weekly MEL-LAS, 3x/4x weekly SYD-LAS or some such).

$0.02


User currently offlineAirNiugini From Australia, joined Mar 2010, 235 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 17893 times:

And also, United will eventually downgrade to a 787 or A350 on SFO - SYD/MEL so hopefully that will help with QF there

User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5664 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 17766 times:

Quoting SexyAdonis (Thread starter):
possibility of transferring the SYD/SFO/SYD route to Jet Star as soon as this carrier incorporates the Boeing 787 to its fleet.

That's a long way off as JQ are not getting any B788, only B789s. I think a QF B788 is a reasonable guess, at this time.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineSexyAdonis From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 17726 times:

The QANTAS regional meeting for the Americas in Los Angeles a few months ago clearly referred to a QF to JQ transfer as a possibility. So what is being contemplated is a JQ metal service over a current QF metal Boeing 747-400ER service. Therefore I am sure that Mr. Joyce and the rest of my colleagues at QF are contemplating to provide the appropriate equipment to JQ in the event that they are transferred this route.

Thank you all for your insights,

Sexy Adonis


User currently offlineSexyAdonis From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 17606 times:

Quoting AirNiugini (Reply 4):
I'd love to see the Qantas brand growing again.. maybe oneday soon ey..  

Thank you for your warm welcome AirNiugini and what a lovely “nick-name” you have.

Our very own Sir Hudson Fysh was always a great supporter of Qantas Empire Airways operations in Papua New Guinea back in the old days!

As far as seeing the Qantas brand growing again, I do remain optimist and do see it eventually happening provided the company manages to:

1) Reduce operating cost (replacing existing crew contracts with QCCUK and QCCAU crew and so forth)
2) Gear up and consolidate to have the “right plane” for the “right markets/destinations”

Number 2 is already happening, and not just by sitting around and waiting for new planes to be deliver. As it is of general knowledge to all of you the six Boeing 747-400ER and a few of the Boeing 747-400 (Rolls Royce engines operated jets) will have major upgrades done. These cabin upgrades will enable the company to deliver a more sophisticated and consistent service to each customer and will allow a maximization of yields in existing routes and hopefully (and I stress the word HOPEFULLY) allow growth through future routes.

Thanks again,

Sexy Adonis


User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 17458 times:

Qantas use the RR powered 747-438's (the -OJ* registered aircraft) on the SYD-SFO flights from time to time.

User currently offlineSexyAdonis From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 17255 times:

Quoting Jackbr (Reply 10):
Qantas use the RR powered 747-438's (the -OJ* registered aircraft) on the SYD-SFO flights from time to time.

Yes, we do get them occasionally on those sectors. However, since QF 73 and QF 74 is NOT a daily service, substitutions from the GE ERs to the regular RRs is kept to a minimum.

Sexy Adonis


User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 17220 times:

Quoting SexyAdonis (Reply 11):
Yes, we do get them occasionally on those sectors. However, since QF 73 and QF 74 is NOT a daily service, substitutions from the GE ERs to the regular RRs is kept to a minimum.

They are far more common in LAX, of course, with the flights from BNE and AKL scheduled to be 2-class RR equipment. I find that LAX and SFO seem to go through phases where a large number of flights are operated by the -438s, obviously due to maintainance requirements


User currently offlineSexyAdonis From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 17138 times:

Quoting Jackbr (Reply 12):
They are far more common in LAX, of course, with the flights from BNE and AKL scheduled to be 2-class RR equipment. I find that LAX and SFO seem to go through phases where a large number of flights are operated by the -438s, obviously due to maintainance requirements

Yes indeed the RR fleet is more common in LAX than in SFO due to BNE and AKL rotations. But with the AKL flight going A330 soon, LAX will see less of the RR as our QF 107/QF 108 is 99% of the time an ER and the QF 11 and QF 12 is A380 and Boeing 747-400ER most of the time. However, it will be interesting to see how aircrafts are re-deployed as the six ERs (and some of the RRs) start getting the planned J, Y+ and Y cabin upgrades to bring the product to the same par of the A380s.


User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 17126 times:

Quoting SexyAdonis (Reply 13):
Yes indeed the RR fleet is more common in LAX than in SFO due to BNE and AKL rotations. But with the AKL flight going A330 soon, LAX will see less of the RR as our QF 107/QF 108 is 99% of the time an ER and the QF 11 and QF 12 is A380 and Boeing 747-400ER most of the time. However, it will be interesting to see how aircrafts are re-deployed as the six ERs (and some of the RRs) start getting the planned J, Y+ and Y cabin upgrades to bring the product to the same par of the A380s.

QF is due to retire all but the last 3 (I think) RR 747s and VH-OEB within the not too distant future. ER's will soon be just about the only QF 747s seen


User currently offlineSexyAdonis From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 17044 times:

Quoting Jackbr (Reply 14):
Quoting Jackbr (Reply 14):

That is correct, the last three acquired RRs will be kept and the six ER as well and all 9 frames will undergo the cabin upgrades.

Would be nice to have the Boeing 747-8 Intercontinental in QF colors. Who knows, one should never say “never” but very unlikely. At least the company now realizes that the “A180 or A3LATEY” was not the right choice of aircraft. I am sure that if Sir. Hudson Fysh and Sir. Roland Wilson were still alive, they would certainly agree with me in this one.


User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5664 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 16424 times:

Quoting SexyAdonis (Reply 15):
At least the company now realizes that the “A180 or A3LATEY” was not the right choice of aircraft.

On what basis do you say that? The A380, despite its teething problems and the problems of the GFC will soon (within 2 years) be operating daily on SYD/MEL-LHR & SYD/MEL-LAX, QFs two MOST important routes.

Quoting SexyAdonis (Reply 15):
I am sure that if Sir. Hudson Fysh and Sir. Roland Wilson were still alive, they would certainly agree with me in this one.

I am absolutely sure Sir Hudson Fysh would most strongly disagree with you. After all it was he who ordered the Shorts Empire flying Boats, a far bigger leap of faith than the A380 AND the original B747 order, and championed keeping the number of aircraft and aircraft types to a minimum. As for Wilson, he wouldn't know what to order, he was a banker, probably had a lot to say about financing them (he was also Sectary to the Treasury), but no idea about aircraft selection.

I have little doubt, unless we have another major Global Financial Crisis or other MAJOR unforeseen disruptive event, that within 5 year of the A380s EIS with QF it will be and will be seen to be, the work horse of the fleet.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineAirNiugini From Australia, joined Mar 2010, 235 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 14596 times:

Quoting SexyAdonis (Reply 15):
Would be nice to have the Boeing 747-8 Intercontinental in QF colors.

Yeah i totally agree.... They might even be a suitable aircraft for EZE, FRA and JNB.... maybe

Quoting SexyAdonis (Reply 9):
the six Boeing 747-400ER and a few of the Boeing 747-400 (Rolls Royce engines operated jets) will have major upgrades done.

Its nice to see the 747 still has some years in the Qantas fleet... I just wonder for how much longer.


User currently offlinekaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2377 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 12098 times:

Quoting AirNiugini (Reply 6):
And also, United will eventually downgrade to a 787 or A350 on SFO - SYD/MEL so hopefully that will help with QF there


And where is this info from?

If they really felt the SFO-SYD route running empty, they would have put the 777-200ER on it.


User currently offlineSexyAdonis From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 11857 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 16):
On what basis do you say that?

On the basis that I meet regularly with the Management teams of all our sister carriers in the oneworld alliance and can easily tell you that as back as 2006, on a public lecture delivered by Ms. Jackson to the faculty of business and economics at ANU, Management was finally coming to terms with the fact that Australia is at a geographical disadvantage (with regards to the Gulf, East Asian and South East Asian carriers) in terms of maximizing the flow of customers through the HUB system. The A380 was an aircraft particularly designed with the HUB system in mind and to serve airports that have operational constraints (i.e. lack of slots, restricted movements, etc) and can only increase availability through the operation of bigger jets.

Mr. Geoff Dixon (and Ms. Jackson) both responsible for ALMOST “butchering QF” upped the orders of the A380s in October 2006 claiming “that following a review, Qantas had decided that the planes were best suited to its long-haul flights from Australia to the UK, US and Europe” (i.e. LHR, LAX not SFO or JFK, FRA – exactly what the current six frames are being used for excluding FRA). But the fact is that the QF network is not just LHR, LAX and FRA!! Is much more then that!

2006 is 4 years ago, 2010 is now. The realities are different and trends do change. In reality QANTAS had no choice because the A380 was going to be operated by both SQ and EK on the Kangaroo route, the companies main competitors on those sectors, and the ONLY way QF could compete is by delivering to its customers the same level of services expected. In other words, offering customers the possibility of flying on this new, modern, and “amazing plane.” Well guess what? The reaction of the general public, when compared to the introduction of the Boeing 747 in the late 60s, was not that radical! People were already used to the comforts of wide-bodies and flying on the A380 has turned out to be no different. Add to that the operational issues that QF has had with the A380 and the fact that a lot of Frequent Flyers opt for Boeing 747-400 operated flights to avoid the A380s and what are you left with? The conclusion that the A380 was not the ideal aircraft for QF, the Boeing 747-8 Intercontinental would have been. But the choices have been made, the commitment made and orders had been placed and now we must always look at things positively, work with what we have and make the best of it!

Sexy Adonis


User currently offlineSexyAdonis From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 11836 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 16):
I am absolutely sure Sir Hudson Fysh would most strongly disagree with you. After all it was he who ordered the Shorts Empire flying Boats, a far bigger leap of faith than the A380 AND the original B747 order, and championed keeping the number of aircraft and aircraft types to a minimum. As for Wilson, he wouldn't know what to order, he was a banker, probably had a lot to say about financing them (he was also Sectary to the Treasury), but no idea about aircraft selection.

Regarding your comment about Sir Hudson Fysh and Sir Roland Wilson, knowing both characters very well, after having researched on their lives, management styles, personalities and met with people that were very close to both of them I conclude that Sir Hudson would have opted for the Boeing 747-8. Further more, ordering the Shorts Empire flying boats was NOT his biggest leap. His biggest leap was facing both the British and Australian government when it came to fleet renewal, disregarding the “BUY BRITISH” policy in those crucial post-war times (when Australian politics and general sentiments were far more in-tune with the Mother Country) and opting to push and convince the Prime Minister that the Lockheed Constellation was THE PLANE for QEA back then just as much as the Boeing 747-8 Intercontinental would have been THE PLANE for QF now.

Sexy Adonis


User currently offlineTravellerPlus From New Zealand, joined Nov 2008, 347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 11683 times:

I fly JQ domestically a lot in NZ. (It's averaging two flights a week at the moment. I wryly calculated that my custom with JQ since they started flying in NZ is worth the same an A320 full of the $19 fares they're offering at the moment...)

I nearly always sit in row 1. The overheard jump seat/galley gossip amongst the crew is that the SFO service will operate over AKL with an A332. QF is shifting to A332 operations on the LAX route.

Whilst galley gossip needs a grain salt, the level and consistency of the gossip does lend credence to it. It has even started mentioning quite specific career paths for crew and colleagues undergoing training for long haul ops. Also I've seen a few regular faces starting to get CSM training on domestic routes to free up others to go long haul.



What goes around comes around....unless your luggage is not on the carousel...
User currently offlineAirNiugini From Australia, joined Mar 2010, 235 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 11623 times:

Quoting kaitak744 (Reply 18):
And where is this info from?

If they really felt the SFO-SYD route running empty, they would have put the 777-200ER on it.

I can only imagine that once the UA747s are replaced by the A350 or 787s, that SFO - SYD/MEL will be operated by one of these aircraft.... Unless im missing something ere...


User currently offlineSexyAdonis From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 11545 times:

Quoting AirNiugini (Reply 17):
Yeah i totally agree.... They might even be a suitable aircraft for EZE, FRA and JNB.... maybe

Well, as long as FRA remains as the only QANTAS “Mainline” destination with in Continental Europe, in terms of capacity (and remember that greater capacity does not mean higher yields) it is A380 candidate. Do not forget that eventually, latter A380s will be arriving to Mascot already configured with J, Y+ and Y (no First).

Eventually, as the A380 replaces the Boeing 747-400ER on the QF 107/QF 108 SYD/LAX/SYD sectors, a decision is taken with regards to the future of QF 73 and QF 74, and most of the Rolls-Royce (with the exception of three frames) is retired, we will see operations at both JNB and EZE being done exclusively with the remaining six 747-400ER and occasionally some substitutions using the 3 RRs (which will be eventually tackling markets like Tokyo, Hong Kong, etc).

Since the ERs date back to 2002/2003 and are still a “young fleet” we should see them around for a while, and we shall see from now to then what Management opts for when it comes to replacing them. All I can say is that whatever eventually replaces them has to be 4 engines, and with this I am specifically referring to a route like SYD/EZE/SYD which MUST operate on 4 engines (will not go into details on this as it has been covered in other threats).

But then again, we do not know if SYD/EZE/SYD would still be around then. Ever since its re-introduction (in November 2008) the route has proven popular BUT Management has stressed on several occasions that if this route is to stay it must focus on increasing the yields. Something that it is not impossible to do, but those require a lot of work and I rest assure that my colleagues, an excellent team based in Buenos Aires are doing their outmost to increase those yields.

Sexy Adonis


User currently offlineThe Coachman From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1429 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks ago) and read 11347 times:

Welcome to A.net

Sorry to post about this so soon after your arrival here but a couple of words of warning.

Posting where you get your sources in such detail "The QANTAS regional meeting for the Americas in Los Angeles a few months ago" and "I meet regularly with the Management teams of all our sister carriers in the oneworld alliance" would seem to be a serious breach of company policy. There have been numerous threads of late discussing disclosure on A.net; I suggest you read these.

I also suggest for future reference you do not name your sources.

Re your points.

What is the 747-8 if not a hub-type aircraft? It is most definitely not a long, thin aircraft as the 787 is. Add to that the fact that the 747-8 hasn't even entered commercial service yet and to say that the 748 is the aircraft for QF now is to put it bluntly, far fetched and illogical particularly given your other points about FF trying to get on the 744s instead. In so far as the plane for QF NOW, the aircraft should have been the B777-300ER and -200LR but that's another thread...and has been for years.

But even you concede that QF had no choice so that renders your point that the 748 is the ideal aircraft moot anyway.

FWIW I agree that SFO is a nicer airport than LAX (no contest) and flabbergasted at people who would rather connect in LAX (friends and colleagues etc who don't even think of the possibility of an SFO connection; you can still get to JFK/BOS/ORD via SFO). A lot of the QF J and W demand from the tech companies are remnants of AA's SJC hub no doubt - how many of them are left, who knows.

I can see SFO going 1 stop via AKL but many Australians would then think it no different to NZ anyway and NZ's superior service would likely sway them; QF's advantage going to SFO is it's nonstop.

Then again if you're smart and not coming from LAX, it's far easier to redeem free FF seats ex-SFO than LAX!!!



M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
25 SexyAdonis : Thank you for your welcome and insight comments Coachman! As far as your suggestion on not naming my sources in future postings, I have taken that onb
26 Lufthansa : I just got back from this flight. It was pretty much full all the way. What struck me was this was the most expensive option in all classes compared
27 Jackbr : I'm sure AR notoriously bad on time performance, let alone their onboard service, has something to do with QFs success
28 ZK-NBT : I think that is possible with QF changeing AKL-LAX to a 332, they could add AKL-SFO service 3-4 weekly with a 332, with a 744 operating SYD-SFO non s
29 gemuser : Australia does not have ETOPS anymore, its now EDTO [Extended Diversion Time Operations]. EDTO beyond 180 min will not happen in the near future, nob
30 alangirvan : Qantas could do quite a lot more with the SFO flights. Perhaps bring the arrival time into SFO forward a bit, to give more time for connections within
31 The Coachman : LAX is a large market in and of itself with Hollywood traffic and all the tourist traffic that goes with that. QF's problem at SFO also involves AA's
32 fun2fly : My prediction is QF 787 service PER>LAX>PER. They could command a premium from travelers by eliminating one stop in the route and take some seat
33 tayser : ADL-LAX-ADL 787 will happen before PER-LAX-PER (would a 787 even have (realistically?) the legs for such a trip?).
34 aussie747 : Highly unlikely considering they only have a token 3PW service to SIN and nothing to New Zealand. Hell will most likely freeze over before QF expand
35 RB211-524H : Speak of the devil, I had some flights booked on QF74/73 for July and QF just sent me an email advising that QF73 schedule time had been moved forwar
36 ETinCaribe : Welcome to A.net. I took QF74 in Nov, flight completely full. I am not sure if QF expects traffic to grow or not but since the 787s are years away, h
37 jetfuel : It will be PER-CNS-LAX This route kills 2 birds with one stone and is almost dicet line
38 alangirvan : Perhaps LAX would be less of a pain if terminals were organised along alliance lines. Possibility that AA and BA will be under one roof at JFK - can
39 Post contains links thegeek : I don't think ETOPS/EDTO would be a problem. AKL-LAX has to sail pretty close to the wind though. I was under the impression that only the A332 HGW c
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