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ATL-ORD On AA Operated By EGF!  
User currently offlineruslan From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 108 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6368 times:

Hi all,
I was surprised to see that AA has stopped sending in MD-82s/83s from ORD to ATL, in favor of an increased Eagle schedule between the two cities. Anyone know if it's temporary or indefinite? I know DL has a number of contract carrier flights and some mainline as well, but I wasn't expecting an all Eagle schedule to ORD. Is demand/operating costs the factor? Is AA shunting the MDs elsewhere? UA is already almost non-existent (IMO- 2-3 flights per day from ORD and contract service from IAD) in ATL..Has AA decided to scale down? Are more changes to come?
Thanks a whole lot.
Ruslan

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3762 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6240 times:

If its all CR7 it makes sense, especially once they all have F. Both cities are huge markets, but AA isnt top dog in Chicago and they're just "one of the airlines that flies here" in ATL. By that I mean they're not FL or DL in terms of market share.

User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2481 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6100 times:

AA is in the process of making a concerted effort to scale down its mainline (domestic) metal at ORD which I know was discussed in a thread just a few months ago (admittedly too lazy to look for it - it was also covered in the Chicago Tribune). At any rate, I'm surprised to see they'd extend this to such a route but then again, frequencies probably trump capacity on this and other business-heavy runs.

777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5993 times:

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 1):
Both cities are huge markets, but AA isnt top dog in Chicago and they're just "one of the airlines that flies here" in ATL. By that I mean they're not FL or DL in terms of market share.

Maybe besides NRT which is co-dominated by JL/NH, there are probably very few, if any airport in the world where the carrier in "second place" has such a massive presence as AA does at ORD.



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlinevctony From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5813 times:

Another reason why UA is down to 3x mainline and AA has reduced service to Eagle is that FL has 7-8 daily MDW-ATL flights. The market is well served as it is with a plethora of DL and FL flights to the point where AA and UA could probably utilize their resources better than a 4 way dogfight.

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22309 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4994 times:

Quoting 777fan (Reply 2):
AA is in the process of making a concerted effort to scale down its mainline (domestic) metal at ORD

They are? What will the mainline presence look like year over year once all the changes that have been announced have taken place?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineflyingbronco05 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3840 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4942 times:

It's been EGF ORD-ATL for over a year now. We (Eagle) is also doing MIA-ATL on EMB's starting real soon if not already.


Never Trust Your Fuel Gauge
User currently offlineqqflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2247 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4498 times:

ORD-ATL currently has seven daily CR7s (six on Saturday/Sunday).

MIA-ATL currently has four daily 738s, two ER4s.

Also, AA will be re-entering LGA-ATL this fall with seven daily CR7s. So, while ATL is losing some mainline flying, total daily ops are likely to be up with the addition of LGA and increased frequency ORD-ATL.

DFW-ATL currently has 10 daily MD-80s (eight on Saturday).

Those schedules seem to be indefinite, at least through the Fall, where schedules haven't been finalized yet.

[Edited 2010-04-12 11:18:30]


The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3452 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4477 times:

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 7):
Those schedules seem to be indefinite, at least through the Fall, where schedules haven't been finalized yet.

That's a far cry from years ago, however, when DFW-ATL saw 12 daily flights with a mix of MD-80s and 757s, MIA-ATL saw 6 daily flights with a mix of 738s and 757s and ORD-ATL saw six daily flights with a mix of MD-80s and F-100s.

Jeremy


User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3788 posts, RR: 29
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4397 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
They are? What will the mainline presence look like year over year once all the changes that have been announced have taken place?

If one extrapolates, for AA at ORD, it will come down to more like what mainline presence? ...rather than 'how it will look' ...aside perhaps from their longhaul intercontinental flights at ORD...

...extrapolating further, who knows if/when some planemaker will roll out something like, perhaps, an E-190ER so the likes of AA, DL and UA can outsource 100% of their flying as they seem so determined to do... while pilots aspiring to 'go mainline' go on building up their hours working for the lowest bidder at food stamps wages to gain the experience required for non-existent mainline pilot jobs they were complicit in eliminating?  





[Edited 2010-04-12 11:48:42]

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22309 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4334 times:

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 9):
If one extrapolates, for AA at ORD, it will come down to more like what mainline presence? ...rather than 'how it will look' ...aside perhaps from their longhaul intercontinental flights at ORD...

That was certainly true for a time - but is AA still shrinking at ORD?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2481 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4041 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
They are? What will the mainline presence look like year over year once all the changes that have been announced have taken place?

I found the article (from late Feb 2010) which may answer some of your questions although admittedly, it's pretty vague: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...s-american-airlines-american-eagle

Fair Use Excerpt:

"The move is angering pilots of the airline and its American Eagle subsidiary, and is part of a broader reshaping of O'Hare operations that is causing passenger traffic and revenue to sharply decline.

Operating under the American Connection brand and subcontracted to regional carrier Chautauqua Airlines, the new flights will carry American customers to 15 cities scattered between Oklahoma City and Cincinnati...American is making Chicago the largest base for its newest and largest regional jets, 70-seat Bombardier CRJ700s. The Texas-based carrier is transferring some of the jets to O'Hare from its Dallas home hub, and the 22 new jets it is buying from Bombardier will be based in Chicago when they start arriving from the factory this summer. With the changes, Chicago will overtake Dallas-Fort Worth as the largest base for American's regional jets."



777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22309 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3941 times:

Quoting 777fan (Reply 11):
I found the article (from late Feb 2010) which may answer some of your questions although admittedly, it's pretty vague:

It is. But we can say for sure that adding CR7 flying without subtracting any mainline flying and adding CR7 flying while subtracting, say, twice as many ASMs as the CR7s are adding are two VERY different things. I know Eagle and Connection are growing at ORD, but what is mainline doing?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineDTW757 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1528 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3901 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 10):
That was certainly true for a time - but is AA still shrinking at ORD?

With 6 or 7 new destinations just starting this week, you can hardly say AA is shrinking ORD. Even though most are operated by MQ, the are still AA seats.



721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,388,146,CR2,7,ERJ,
User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1531 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3787 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 12):
but what is mainline doing?

Mainline will be down to around 177 flights this summer. That's as low as I've ever seen and I bet it will go down even more for the fall schedule. I don't think that means AA has problems at ORD though.

Here's the summer mainline schedule:

2x ABQ
1x ANC
4x AUS
1x PEK
9x BOS
1x BRU
1x CUN
18x DFW
1x DEL
4x DEN
1x DTW
1x DUB
2x ELP
1x FLL
1x RSW
1x HNL
3x MCI
5x LAS
4x LHR
10x LAX
1x MAN
9x MIA
4x MSP
5x EWR
3x MSY
1x JFK
17x LGA
4x MCO
1x CDG
2x PHL
4x PHX
3x RDU
1x RNO
1x FCO
2x SAT
4x SAN
6x SFO
2x SJC
2x SJU
3x SNA
5x SEA
1x PVG
9x STL
2x TPA
1x NRT
2x YYZ
2x TUS
1x TUL
1x YVR
10x DCA
1x PBI

In addition there are 306 MQ/RP flights for a total of 483 flights.

The breakdown by aircraft type is:

777: 8
763: 9
757: 19
738: 45
M80: 96
CR7: 46
ER4: 149
ERD: 111



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlinevctony From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3478 times:

That's a pathetically small amount of mainline flights. Is AA beginning to throw the towel in on the ORD hub?

User currently offlinecrAAzy From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 734 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3415 times:
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Quoting 777fan (Reply 11):
I found the article (from late Feb 2010) which may answer some of your questions although admittedly, it's pretty vague: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...s-american-airlines-american-eagle

Fair Use Excerpt:

"The move is angering pilots of the airline and its American Eagle subsidiary, and is part of a broader reshaping of O'Hare operations that is causing passenger traffic and revenue to sharply decline.

Operating under the American Connection brand and subcontracted to regional carrier Chautauqua Airlines, the new flights will carry American customers to 15 cities scattered between Oklahoma City and Cincinnati...American is making Chicago the largest base for its newest and largest regional jets, 70-seat Bombardier CRJ700s. The Texas-based carrier is transferring some of the jets to O'Hare from its Dallas home hub, and the 22 new jets it is buying from Bombardier will be based in Chicago when they start arriving from the factory this summer. With the changes, Chicago will overtake Dallas-Fort Worth as the largest base for American's regional jets."

Interestingly these plans have already changed as AA has indicated that they are now shifting many of those new CRJs to the NYC market as part of their announced build-up.

IMHO I can't see how AA can throw CRJs where you have to gate check average sized carry ons and no wi-fi on routes like ORD-DCA/ATL.


User currently offlineRIPCORDD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1126 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3181 times:

I think a lot has to do with the costs of running ORD compared to DFW it's prob a lot cheaper to fly someone from ewr to lax via dfw than ord which it seems that they are doing. Someone like me and I hope there is a lot when booking travel if UA and AA are the same price and UA is flying mainline I go with them

User currently offlinesurfandsnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2797 posts, RR: 30
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3135 times:

Quoting ruslan (Thread starter):
Has AA decided to scale down? Are more changes to come?

Unfortunately, it seems like AA's strategy will be much like that of UA - many of the MD-80s will be replaced by regional jets (not mainline a/c such as the 738) just as UA's ENTIRE 737 fleet was replaced by RJs (sure, A319s and 320s picked up quite a bit of the flying, but then mainline frequencies on many segments were cut and/or RJs took up some of the former Airbus routes, etc.). Unfortunately, both UA and AA may never again be as big as they were in the 90's and early 2000s.

Quoting FL787 (Reply 14):
Mainline will be down to around 177 flights this summer. That's as low as I've ever seen and I bet it will go down even more for the fall schedule.

A very troubling figure indeed. If ORD doesn't start getting more longhaul flights, we could see the likes of EWR, PHL, and MCI go to all Eagle too 
Quoting FL787 (Reply 14):
I don't think that means AA has problems at ORD though.

No, the overall AA network from ORD is indeed stronger than ever. It's just sad that pax that once enjoyed all mainline flights on fairly long, busy sectors such IAH-ORD-BDL or YYC-ORD-BWI are now stuck flying on RJs. It wasn't that long ago when AA was still sending its own planes up to RST from ORD!

Quoting vctony (Reply 15):
That's a pathetically small amount of mainline flights. Is AA beginning to throw the towel in on the ORD hub?

No, ORD remains a very integral part of the AA network. Unfortunately, of the three big hubs, ORD is by far the most regional in nature, given that relatively few flights exceed 2 hours (most are right within the Midwest, Upper South, or the East Coast). Most flying from MIA and even DFW is quite a bit longer (at least in relative terms) making mainline aircraft practically essential.



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22309 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2925 times:

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 18):
Unfortunately, it seems like AA's strategy will be much like that of UA - many of the MD-80s will be replaced by regional jets (not mainline a/c such as the 738) just as UA's ENTIRE 737 fleet was replaced by RJs (sure, A319s and 320s picked up quite a bit of the flying, but then mainline frequencies on many segments were cut and/or RJs took up some of the former Airbus routes, etc.).

With AA receiving about 2 738s a month, I'm not sure that the AA S80 retirement and the UA 737 retirement are really comparable. UA retired the 737s with nothing to fill in the gap but the existing fleet and regionals. That's simply not the case for AA.

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 18):
It's just sad that pax that once enjoyed all mainline flights on fairly long, busy sectors such IAH-ORD-BDL or YYC-ORD-BWI are now stuck flying on RJs. It wasn't that long ago when AA was still sending its own planes up to RST from ORD!

How is the passenger experience on a 2-class CR7 inferior to the experience on an S80?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
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