avek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4092 posts, RR: 18 Posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 15717 times:
MANOKWARI, Indonesia (AFP) – A jet carrying about 100 passengers skidded off the runway into a shallow river as it landed in Indonesia on Tuesday, injuring some 20 people, officials said.
The Merpati airline Boeing 737 broke into pieces as it bounced off the tarmac at Rendani domestic airport in Manokwari, West Papua, director general of civil aviation Herry Bhakti Singayuda told AFP.
"It skidded off the runway and part of its body landed in a river," he said, referring to a shallow waterway about 200 metres (600 feet) from the runway.
"All 103 passengers and six crew members are safe. Some are injured. They have been rushed to hospital."
Very true, but at the same time my two flights on Merpati were among the most memorable flights I've ever had. I flew on a Fokker F-27 from Denpasar, Bali to Mataram, Lombok and back to Denpasar on a CN-235. Very unique experience.
macc From Austria, joined Nov 2004, 973 posts, RR: 3 Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 14765 times:
Quoting levent (Reply 4): Very true, but at the same time my two flights on Merpati were among the most memorable flights I've ever had.
well, my last flights with them 4 months ago were normal, left aside that they cancelled my return flight from LUWUK without giving me notice... but 1998 and 1999 was awesome. On CASA 212 planes from Ambon to Ternate and Manado.
They wrecked a minimum of 2 planes a year already back then...
I exchanged political frustration with sexual boredom. better spoil a girl than the world
mandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6181 posts, RR: 74 Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 14303 times:
This accident has already raised a few eyebrows...
Manokwari has its runway extended to 2000m not too long ago...
Current speculations range from weather, to MDA bust, to bad CRM (dual instructors)...
I'm having difficulty finding the instrument approach procedure for the place...
it has an NDB only... weather was wet... and reports (eyewitnesses, you know how good/bad they can get) of the plane touching down late... If true, the typical question comes up... "why not go-around?"
But, it could very well be just aquaplaning...
Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
Brick From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1571 posts, RR: 8 Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 13019 times:
That looks like an old United Airlines seat peering through the cracked fuselage.
F9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4739 posts, RR: 30 Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 12486 times:
Quoting Brick (Reply 10): That looks like an old United Airlines seat peering through the cracked fuselage.
Sure does look like old UA seats. I would not be surprised if they are indeed.
Gulfstream650 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 489 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 11181 times:
Gonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1677 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 11010 times:
Quoting Gulfstream650 (Reply 12): Why so many 737 over-runs? They seem to happen almost once a month all over the world!
Probably because thousands of them are flying around. Nothing related with the type, you can be sure.
Besides ( sadly ) Indonesia has a very bad safety record in aviation, probably as a result of predominant weather + infraestructure issues + cultural reasons ( bad CRM )... even Garuda, the main carrier of the country, has a poor safety record. Probably fellow member Mandala can describe much better than me the general situation leading to this, but again, notihng to do with the aircraft type IMHO.
Brick From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1571 posts, RR: 8 Reply 14, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 10587 times:
Yep, it was ex-United. It was a Boeing 737-322, registration is PK-MDE (MSN 24660). It was with United Airlines as N385UA until sometime in 2009.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21498 posts, RR: 24 Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 7954 times:
Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 13): Besides ( sadly ) Indonesia has a very bad safety record in aviation, probably as a result of predominant weather + infraestructure issues + cultural reasons ( bad CRM )... even Garuda, the main carrier of the country, has a poor safety record.
However, Garuda and a couple of other Indonesian carriers (Mandala was one) were removed a few months ago from the EU's list of airlines banned from operating to Europe. All other Indonesian carriers, including Merpati, are still on the banned list.
flaps30 From United States of America, joined May 2009, 258 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 7700 times:
Getting just a bit off topic for a second, I always wondered how people in Indonesia make it to adulthood. Between all the air disasters, earthquakes, tsunamis, forest fires, terrorist acts, and mudslides, how do they do it?
mandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6181 posts, RR: 74 Reply 17, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 7126 times:
Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 13): Besides ( sadly ) Indonesia has a very bad safety record in aviation, probably as a result of predominant weather infraestructure issues cultural reasons ( bad CRM )... even Garuda, the main carrier of the country, has a poor safety record. Probably fellow member Mandala can describe much better than me the general situation leading to this, but again, notihng to do with the aircraft type IMHO.
Weather vs Infrastructure issues - A major problem here. The country needs to wake up to the fact that today, people just don't stay indoors when it rains heavily... which then goes to the cultural issue.
Safety is improving, but, it's an uphill struggle, and it's cultural too. Even good safe carriers have a continuous uphill struggle against the "short-cutters", the corrupt, the ignorant, and the proud. The latter is the hardest to deal with (as they end up adopting at least one of the former). How to deal with the "proud x" ? Mandala and Indo Air Asia solves it by breaking down the seniority mentality... "don't like to do it the safe way? Get out!" A lot have been fired for not complying with the safety standards from the 2 carriers... And a lot of passengers get the same treatment... "Don't want to comply with our safety instructions? Get off the plane NOW!" Mandala has had a few very highly publicized cases involving forced removal of passengers who ignore safety instructions, and Indo Air Asia too... Unfortunately, those actions lead to lawsuits thrown against them by the passengers... (at least the court throws some of those cases out for being ridiculous)
And the results from these 2 carriers show that they're doing something right with what is seems as "harsh" by Indonesian cultural standards... Indo Air Asia has had an incident free year last year, and Mandala has had no incidents last year involving any of their aircraft while its engines are running The 2 carriers continue to enjoy carrying passengers from the lucrative oil&gas industry (even the charter carriers who used to carry all these high-yielding pax, wonder how those 2 did it!)
Garuda, does the improvements a different way... they do have the highest problem of the "pride x" problem due to 50 years of rigid seniority culture. They just break it down by saying, "we need to be profitable, excess fat from the corrupt and the unsafe will be dealt severely"... Many of the unsafe have left the company and moved into other company, ironically using the "Garuda is safe, I can bring safety improvements into your company" cover. Strangely, many made it into Indo Air Asia, where they got a nice shock of "no no, you're not going to fool us that way!", and decided to "convert and stay" (mind you, having the highest pay after Garuda probably helped a lot in persuading them to convert to the safe way of life).
The reason why the safe carriers don't fly to some of these out of the way places, also include risk assessment on whether or not a new destination affect the safety culture of the company... they've pulled out of destinations where safety culture is an issue.
Many of the others, unfortunately, still go by the "let's pretend we're safe, and just do with whatever we can getaway with"...
With Merpati, ironically, I find the normal line pilots way better in terms of safety than some of their instructors (who has the obvious "pride x" problems)... and this flight carried 2 instructors in front... (but I have no idea if these 2 are the jokers or the good guys)
Quoting flaps30 (Reply 16): Getting just a bit off topic for a second, I always wondered how people in Indonesia make it to adulthood. Between all the air disasters, earthquakes, tsunamis, forest fires, terrorist acts, and mudslides, how do they do it?
It's called the miracle of God for some... for others it's called human genius! LOL! Unfortunately, it's just a game of numbers... I cheated by going abroad for a good number of years! If you lived here, you'd understand what I mean by "game of numbers".
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
ryanair!!! From Singapore, joined Mar 2002, 4653 posts, RR: 27 Reply 18, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 6523 times:
Quoting flaps30 (Reply 16): Getting just a bit off topic for a second, I always wondered how people in Indonesia make it to adulthood. Between all the air disasters, earthquakes, tsunamis, forest fires, terrorist acts, and mudslides, how do they do it?
I do not know if it is plain ignorance or I do not have a sense of humour but somehow I fail to see anything comical about these statements. How people there see through it? It is called being able to ADAPT. Did your western upbringing somehow numb your ability to empathise with the predicament of people living in seimologically active areas?
Take your time to understand the large country of Indonesia. While largely rural and poor due to the vast geography and scattered islands (it is not known as the world's largest archipelago for nothing), it also carries a significant role in Asia's economy. Domestically, they were hardly affected by the last financial crisis which gripped the balls of the countries which you both originate from which says a lot for the buoyancy of their economy.
Some of the world's largest conglomorates originate from this country too, likewise some of the world's richest individuals. While I do not condone the corruption which goes on there, sometimes having a bit of this does help to move things along.
So do think twice before passing comments like these. It isn't skillful neither is it necessary and it shows nothing but ignorance coming from your end.
Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
9V-SVC From Singapore, joined Oct 2001, 1780 posts, RR: 11 Reply 19, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 6320 times:
Quoting Brick (Reply 14): Yep, it was ex-United. It was a Boeing 737-322, registration is PK-MDE (MSN 24660). It was with United Airlines as N385UA until sometime in 2009.
My gosh, I have flown on this bird before with UA in the 1990s ! Thanks goodness the passengers are safe and sound, that's the most important thing.
gffgold From Indonesia, joined Feb 2007, 443 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 6183 times:
From the look of the photos I'd say 20 injuries (some minor) was pretty lucky. Absolutely no sign of ignition - and I'm assuming this bird wouldn't be refueling at that stop(?)
Gonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1677 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 6096 times:
Quoting mandala499 (Reply 18): It's called the miracle of God for some... for others it's called human genius! LOL! Unfortunately, it's just a game of numbers... I cheated by going abroad for a good number of years!
Keep it that way man !! Your insight is always vastly appreciated for all of us who live in the antipodes...
Quoting flaps30 (Reply 20): I would say that you have no sense of humor. By the way, most of these disasters I mentioned are man made (air crashes, forest fires, terrorism,etc) and could be avoided if need be.
Sorry, but the sense of humor never can be mixed with bad taste. You must remember that almost 200.000 souls died in the earthquake/tsunami of December 2004, and asking with a grain of sarcasm how they do to reach the adulthood in the country is...well... bad taste.
Quoting mandala499 (Reply 18): With Merpati, ironically, I find the normal line pilots way better in terms of safety than some of their instructors (who has the obvious "pride x" problems)... and this flight carried 2 instructors in front... (but I have no idea if these 2 are the jokers or the good guys)
It's pretty confusing to me how two instructors can have CRM problems... Was the status of instructor already confirmed for both pilots ?
mandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6181 posts, RR: 74 Reply 22, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4968 times:
Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 21): Keep it that way man !! Your insight is always vastly appreciated for all of us who live in the antipodes...
I actually decided to return back to Indonesia 10 years ago. Despite the "game of numbers", am loving it here!
Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 21): It's pretty confusing to me how two instructors can have CRM problems... Was the status of instructor already confirmed for both pilots ?
Yes... both are instructing pilots... Why the CRM? if they're old instructors, they're from the "old ways"... to which the ego is sacred... Other airlines here have stopped putting 2 instructing pilots in the same cockpit to "difficult" airports... reason: Tendency for CRM breakdown in marginal conditions (ego)... but, they still do it when there are 3 guys being loaded up front (the 3rd being a student in line training, hence the 2nd instructor would not sit in the right seat).
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
Gonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1677 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4355 times:
Quoting mandala499 (Reply 23): Yes... both are instructing pilots... Why the CRM? if they're old instructors, they're from the "old ways"... to which the ego is sacred...
Thank you, that was my feeling too, and IMHO, a war of egos is among the WORST things you can have in a cockpit.
Anyway, at least we can have the consolation of no one died in this mishap.
rikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1464 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3973 times:
Quoting Brick (Reply 14): Yep, it was ex-United. It was a Boeing 737-322, registration is PK-MDE (MSN 24660). It was with United Airlines as N385UA until sometime in 2009.
Check the first pic in reply # 12 from Gulfstream 650... the fabric on the seat you can see looks to be standard United colours!
Cessna 172; King Air 100; Twin Otter; SAAB 340; Dash 7; Dash 8-100,-200,-300,-400; CRJ-200,700,900; ERJ-170; F-28; DC 9-
mandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6181 posts, RR: 74 Reply 25, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3750 times:
Not sure if this has been posted before... I'll stick to the ones that interest me that I haven't seen elsewhere... (bear in mind I've been stuck in a trench with my laptop over the past 48hrs).
The overhead panel... with some of the switches in a "very interesting" position!
Some include: ENG #1 starter on CONT, and ENG #2 on FLT... BATT to OFF...
Then.... we have...
Crosslink broken and... Reversers anyone????
The excursion path (looking towards the runway... between the mountain and the water, there's the sea...)
Which when combined with:
and
Makes a very interesting trajectory analysis... (V-shaped tree is the common point visible in both photos).
Looks like this is going to be a long weekend...
Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
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The 2 carriers continue to enjoy carrying passengers from the lucrative oil&gas industry (even the charter carriers who used to carry all these high-yielding pax, wonder how those 2 did it!)
(mind you, having the highest pay after Garuda probably helped a lot in persuading them to convert to the safe way of life).
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