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Is CO Being Manipulated By UA?  
User currently offlineSeatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 780 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 12949 times:

It's well known that CO would prefer to remain independent for the time being, but it seems their partner UA is FORCING CO to rethink its strategy by holding merger talks with US. UA doesn't really want to merge with US, they're just adding pressure to CO to make a deal.

I hope CO sits back and holds true to their strategy. What do they have to lose? They could A) Gain a larger partner with deeper depth, particularly in the Southeast, or B) watch the new UA completely implode in a few years, which will completely wipe a competitor off the map, which wouldn't be all that bad for CO (they can buy the best of UA's assets).

Doug Parker has to know he's being used.

51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSeatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 780 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 12634 times:

Holly Hegeman in her Plane Business Banter has some interesting comments in support of a US/UA merger, all the while CO enjoys a win-win situation.

Basically, US HAS to do something and will pursue UA, while CO will enjoy a strong(er) partner (eventually).


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11973 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 12525 times:

Quoting Seatback (Thread starter):
Is CO Being Manipulated By UA

Yes.

Quoting Seatback (Thread starter):
UA is FORCING CO to rethink its strategy

Continental isn't being forced into doing anything, but yes, United is definitely signalling them that they are seriously ready to move towards some sort of a consolidation transaction. And I have no doubt Continental will get that message.

The question is whether they bit. I think Smisek also recognizes the great deal of intrinsic value in a combined company - the combination of the complimentary networks alone would be massive.

The new airline would instantly have - by far - the best network of any U.S. airline, domestically and internationally.

And Tilton obviously knows that. Some of the integration issues - like labor - won't necessarily be great, but who are we kidding - they're going to be an ever bigger mess with USAirways, anyway.


User currently offlineSeatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 780 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 12461 times:

After reading more about it, I think this is a pretty good set-up for both UA and US. From what I've read, they'll use the Delta/Northwest template for integration, which so far has gone pretty smoothly.

I just hope CO sits this one out.

The real question is what will AA do?


User currently offlinedl767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 12460 times:

Quoting Seatback (Thread starter):

A US and UA merger would be a mistake and probably be helpful to CO. I think i remember (correct me if i'm wrong) that US would be the leading partner in the merger if it succeeded. UA needs new management but US doesn't have experience with this large of a network and I could see some problems, plus their merger with AMerica West didn't go too smoothly it would be a bummer for another difficult merger. CO is a lot like AA, they have a lot of loyal customers and good customer service to try and make it on their own. DL has become a serious competitor to AA and CO, UA is just kind of going along, it would be interesting to see CO let US and UA happen


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 12353 times:

any merger among UA / US / CO is a mistake. most labor issues, anti-trust divesting requirements, and conflicting corporate culture makes the whole thing not worth while.

for case studies, please see the chaos that still lingers from US / HP.

for value destroying, see how AA retained nothing from Reno Air, TWA, and others post-merger other than eliminating the competition for cheap.

a rare exception is DL/NW, but then they were practically having a 4-way with DL/NW/KL/AF before already, so the merger is kinda no-brainer. funny how NW-KL evolved into DL-AF.


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5231 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 12350 times:

Quoting Seatback (Reply 3):


The real question is what will AA do?

Probably nothing. Their past aquisitions are a pretty spotty lot:

1. AirCal: Failure
2. TWA's LHR authority: Success
3. Eastern's Latin American network: Success
4. Reno Air: Failure
5. TWA: Failure

AA's successes are buying parts of an airline, not the whole shebang. However, if they could persuade AS to join oneworld, they really wouldn't need to buy anything at all. If not, they still don't need to rush to merge. AA has a pretty strong foundation as it is now.



The best IFE: A window seat and a good book.
User currently offlineN505FX From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 12321 times:

Quoting dl767captain (Reply 4):
UA needs new management but US doesn't have experience with this large of a network and I could see some problems,

Why do people continually say this? Lets look at a few facts:

1) Glenn Tilton - generally hated by the rank and file, but got UA through one of the most complicated BK proceedings in U.S. history

and the team he has in place now:

A CFO, that has shored up the books, placed new AC order, kept stock price high, and managed to invest in new product across the fleet. An operations team that continues with one of the safest operations around, while turning in industry leading on time performance, and onboard - the only US carrier offering lie flat in First and Biz on their international fleet. So why again does this company need new management?

[Edited 2010-04-13 10:17:26]

User currently offlineSeatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 780 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 12019 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 6):
Probably nothing. Their past aquisitions are a pretty spotty lot:

1. AirCal: Failure
2. TWA's LHR authority: Success
3. Eastern's Latin American network: Success
4. Reno Air: Failure
5. TWA: Failure

AA's successes are buying parts of an airline, not the whole shebang. However, if they could persuade AS to join oneworld, they really wouldn't need to buy anything at all. If not, they still don't need to rush to merge. AA has a pretty strong foundation as it is now.

I agree, mostly. The TWA acquisition which was its largest and was derailed after the events of 9/11. That wasn't any fault of AA's. As it was said, Air Cal and Reno eliminated competition and gained frequent flyers. I guess it depends on how you see "failure"--or was it really smart?


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5231 posts, RR: 21
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 11893 times:

Quoting Seatback (Reply 8):


I agree, mostly. The TWA acquisition which was its largest and was derailed after the events of 9/11. That wasn't any fault of AA's. As it was said, Air Cal and Reno eliminated competition and gained frequent flyers. I guess it depends on how you see "failure"--or was it really smart?

If eliminating a competitor and gaining FF members is a success then TWA was a successful acquistion. But was it worth a billion dollars? No. And I agree with the 9/11 assesment to a point. It probably hastened the ultimate result, but a St Louis hub never made much sense in the AA network. Probably would have fared better had CO or US or HP bought TWA.



The best IFE: A window seat and a good book.
User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3092 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 11829 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 2):
The new airline would instantly have - by far - the best network of any U.S. airline, domestically and internationally.

I'm sorry but...huh? By far? Better than DL? How so?


User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1642 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 11811 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 2):
And Tilton obviously knows that. Some of the integration issues - like labor - won't necessarily be great, but who are we kidding - they're going to be an ever bigger mess with USAirways, anyway.

I still think that this could be the kicker in CO's favor -- that even though there are some moderate to major issues, it is so much better than a US tie-up that Tilton et al are bound to wait for CO. That's not to say that US isn;t in the picture, but I think that a US deal is pretty much the last resort, such as if UA ends up on the outs after a potential AA-CO merger (just as an example -- not saying it WILL happen), in which case they'd have no real merger partners except US and AS (which may not be feasible anyway).

As always I will defer to those with insider knowledger, but I can't get over the fact that a US merger would be so full of redundancies and divestments. PHX is redundant to basically SFO/LAX/DEN, LAS could probably be run out of SFO and LAX post-merger, PHL may get canned in favor of IAD, then whatever will go down with IAD and DCA in the DC market. The way I see it about the only thing not redundant or useless is CLT. Which is all to say I have a hard time believing that US is the preferred partner---again, unless there's something I'm missing.


User currently offlinerjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 11732 times:

If United and Continental merge, I am most curious to see how they will attempt to come up with a consistent product across their fleet. F cabins on some birds but not others? AVOD in some birds but not others? Half the domestic fleet will have PTVS; half will just have in-flight audio including Channel 9.

Either way, they are going to have to make a big investment to have a consistent product.


User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6932 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 11664 times:

Quoting rjpieces (Reply 12):
If United and Continental merge, I am most curious to see how they will attempt to come up with a consistent product across their fleet. F cabins on some birds but not others? AVOD in some birds but not others? Half the domestic fleet will have PTVS; half will just have in-flight audio including Channel 9.

UA and CO seem to both be on the same wavelength about AVOD in Y on the 777s and one cycle PTVs on 767s (CO with the 762/764, UA with the 763.)



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3092 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 11611 times:

Quoting rjpieces (Reply 12):
Either way, they are going to have to make a big investment to have a consistent product.

Won't be any different than any other merger.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31414 posts, RR: 85
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 11562 times:
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Frankly, I think a merged UA and US (retaining UA branding and product) would serve as a better partner to CO than a merged UA/CO would serve as a partner to US. From what I have experienced and heard, US seems to be more of a low-fare, low frills carrier so if US and UA merge, perhaps US should become the new "TED" - allowing UA to better align itself with CO as a higher-fare, more frills carrier.

In terms of domestic First Class product and service, I prefer CO over UA when traveling within the United States, but UA having a true First Class product internationally keeps me flying them to/from the United States, even though CO's international premium product is certainly no slouch. So I could see CO and UA complimenting each other internationally, especially to areas of the world that still support true First Class service (Asia, Australia, LHR/FRA).


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11973 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 11549 times:

Quoting catiii (Reply 10):
I'm sorry but...huh? By far? Better than DL? How so?

Yes - by far. Way better than Delta, and way better than AA, who would be the combined airline's main peers.

Domestically, Delta's hubs are all really second-tier cities in terms of global prominence and economic activity. The only exceptions are New York and Atlanta, both of which are massive economic forces as metropolitan regions go. But Detroit, Memphis, Cincinnati, Minneapolis, Salt Lake City? No. All are big population centers - some much bigger than others, but none are tiny. But, if the U.S. was a blank slate as airlines go and one airline had the monopoly to choose whichever cities they'd want as their domestic and global hubs, none of those cities would likely be on the list.

Now, contrast that with Continental-United. Every single one of that airline's hubs would be not only massive population centers, but also pretty much the preeminent economic hubs of the regions they serve. If you want to hub in the northeastern United States, you can't really beat New York (EWR) and Washington. If you want a hub in the Upper Midwest, Chicago is by far the largest and most important market. Houston is an exceptional hub for serving booming Texas and the south, and east-west flows. Denver is and always will be the hub of the Rocky Mountain region. And in the west, like in the northeast, if somebody had to choose the two biggest and most important markets, they would obviously be LA and San Francisco.

Internationally, the network's strength would be driven by the same thing as the domestic network: a compliment of absolutely top-notch hubs. For Europe, the one-two punch of EWR and IAD, with EWR having massive O&D and IAD having also strong O&D and good connections, would be a force to be reckoned with. To Latin America, if you can't have Miami, Houston is not at all a bad substitute, and it is the #1 gateway to Mexico. In the Pacific, you couldn't really ask for better gateways than LAX and SFO - both with absolutely massive markets and tons of connections. Again, besides JFK and ATL, none of Delta's hub are really optimal for building huge international hubs. SEA can work for some Asia flying, but it will never be SFO. MSP is good, but it will never be ORD. DTW is good, but it will never be EWR.

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 11):
I still think that this could be the kicker in CO's favor -- that even though there are some moderate to major issues, it is so much better than a US tie-up that Tilton et al are bound to wait for CO.

Oh absolutely.

A Continental merger would take a great deal of time, money and resources to deal with the integration of the workgroups. But that is unavoidable in any airline merger - especially when you're talking about airlines this size. But USAirways - dear God that would just be a chaotic mess.


User currently onlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13751 posts, RR: 61
Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11476 times:
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Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 6):
However, if they could persuade AS to join oneworld, they really wouldn't need to buy anything at all.

Not going to happen. AS is perfectly content to codeshare with everyone and wants no part of alliances...



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineworldtraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11428 times:

Quoting Seatback (Reply 1):
CO will enjoy a strong(er) partner (eventually).

That isn't a given at all... UA might very well be unable to focus on developing a CO alliance at the same time it is completing a merger w/ US.... UA might destroy itself in the process of a merger.... other carriers might change the industry... it is far from certain that sitting on the sidelines will benefit CO.
It doesn't mean CO should rush into something that they don't believe will turn out well....

Quoting Seatback (Reply 3):
After reading more about it, I think this is a pretty good set-up for both UA and US. From what I've read, they'll use the Delta/Northwest template for integration, which so far has gone pretty smoothly.

There are major differences bewteen the cultures of DL and UA and US....that culture cannot be duplicated overnight in a merger.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 5):
a rare exception is DL/NW

The Western merger was the best executed of the mergers in the late 80s.

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 6):
2. TWA's LHR authority: Success
3. Eastern's Latin American network: Success

both of which were asset acquisitions, not mergers. It is a whole lot easier for AA to make something work when they can do what they want... which is pretty much the way they operate.

Quoting N505FX (Reply 7):
got UA through one of the most complicated BK proceedings in U.S. history

It was the most expensive airline bankruptcy and wasn't any more complicated than others that followed....

Quoting commavia (Reply 2):
The new airline would instantly have - by far - the best network of any U.S. airline, domestically and internationally.

The assumption here is that 1. any merger has been announced and 2. that even if it were announced, the process of integration could begin now... neither has occurred and time is very much a factor in any merger.

DL is not going to sit still while any further mergers are announced... they will continue to grow and expand... UA/CO does have some very nice hubs and does create a very formidable size but the TWO couldn't begin the process of integration until the merger is actually approved, let alone actually implemented. DL is implementing the first major changes right now - almost 18 months after the merger was announced. It is inconceivable to believe that any other airline could implement anything of significance much faster..... and other competitors - network and LFC - are not going to sit still while the landscape changes.


User currently offlineMacsog6 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11399 times:
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Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 6):
However, if they could persuade AS to join oneworld, they really wouldn't need to buy anything at all.

I concur with the post above. While AA joining 1W would benefit AA, I cannot see how it would benefit AS.



Sixty Plus Years of Flying! "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Saint Ex
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5231 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11321 times:

Quoting Macsog6 (Reply 19):


I concur with the post above. While AA joining 1W would benefit AA, I cannot see how it would benefit AS.

Didn't claim it was going to happen, just an observation.

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 18):


both of which were asset acquisitions, not mergers. It is a whole lot easier for AA to make something work when they can do what they want... which is pretty much the way they operate.

which is basically what I said:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 6):


AA's successes are buying parts of an airline, not the whole shebang.



The best IFE: A window seat and a good book.
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11973 posts, RR: 62
Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11276 times:

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 18):
The assumption here is that 1. any merger has been announced and 2. that even if it were announced, the process of integration could begin now... neither has occurred and time is very much a factor in any merger.

Well, duh.

It's obviously all hypothetical at this point, since nothing has been officially announced.

I think my earlier point - which you were quoting - was clearly conditional and referenced what could occur, not was is currently occurring.

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 18):
DL is not going to sit still while any further mergers are announced... they will continue to grow and expand

Good for them. But all their growth and expansion isn't going to change the fact that they're hubs are - generally speaking - economically, demographically and strategically inferior to what a combined United-Continental would have. AA's aren't - actually all of AA's five "cornerstone" hub markets are economically, demographically and strategically incredibly strong and valuable - it's just that they'd have fewer of them than United-Continental.

Plus, over on another thread, you're busy extolling the virtues of size and how it allows the bigger airline to allegedly drive smaller competitors out of small- to mid-size markets. So I guess that means that since a merged United would be bigger than merged Delta, that Delta is in for some marginalization in some of these "smaller" markets where a combined United would be bigger?

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 18):
but the TWO couldn't begin the process of integration until the merger is actually approved, let alone actually implemented

So?

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 18):
It is inconceivable to believe that any other airline could implement anything of significance much faster

Again - who cares?

It doesn't matter when the merged airline would actually be merged. If it took 18 months, so be it. It wouldn't change the fact that once the two were merged, they would not only be a bigger combined airline than Delta, but also have way, way better hubs and a far, far better international network than any of its peers.


User currently offlineSeatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 780 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11277 times:

Quoting rjpieces (Reply 12):
If United and Continental merge, I am most curious to see how they will attempt to come up with a consistent product across their fleet. F cabins on some birds but not others? AVOD in some birds but not others? Half the domestic fleet will have PTVS; half will just have in-flight audio including Channel 9.

This is a standard integration issue that wouldn't sway against a merger. This is the case for all mergers.

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 18):
There are major differences bewteen the cultures of DL and UA and US

Just as there were with DL and NW. Culture issues can be managed as they have with every airline merger in the history of airlinekind.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7691 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11229 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 2):
Continental isn't being forced into doing anything, but yes, United is definitely signalling them that they are seriously ready to move towards some sort of a consolidation transaction. And I have no doubt Continental will get that message.

Let's be honest. The biggest driver in this whole thing is for Tilton to make a wad of money on his stock options and other compensation. He wants a payday and has always wanted a payday. If UA buys US he gets no payday. I don't see how US could buy UA, but I guess if HP could buy US it's possible. What he wants is CO to buy out UA. Before it was a no-go because Tilton demanded to stay in order to be able to hang on long enough to make some money on his options which were worthless at the time. I think that now they are worth enough such that he would probably simply leave.


User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6932 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11105 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 16):
But Detroit, Memphis,

Actually I think these are two cities, (while your right are smaller in size) will prove to be fantastic assets to the Delta network in the coming years. DL is already regarding DTW as their second biggest hub and seem to take a lot of pride in promoting it as a hub of their own. DL seems to want to leave MEM alone, most likely for cheap operational costs, booming local market pharmaceutical industry, and as a reliever to ATL. And don't forget that even with the CO/UA merger, DL will still be larger in NRT.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):
From what I have experienced and heard, US seems to be more of a low-fare, low frills carrier so if US and UA merge, perhaps US should become the new "TED" - allowing UA to better align itself with CO as a higher-fare, more frills carrier.

No it won't be like this at all. It will either be UA dismantling the entire US network except for CLT and using their a/c to grow their mainline fleet in size. This would be the biggest basket case of a merger ever. I honestly don't think anyone at UA actually wants this, but would much rather have CO.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):
In terms of domestic First Class product and service, I prefer CO over UA when traveling within the United States, but UA having a true First Class product internationally keeps me flying them to/from the United States, even though CO's international premium product is certainly no slouch. So I could see CO and UA complimenting each other internationally, especially to areas of the world that still support true First Class service (Asia, Australia, LHR/FRA).

UA and CO certainly aren't the very best for international premium services, but both have their very obvious strengths and weaknesses. UA wins for seat hardware, CO wins for cuisine. I think in a merger situation they will really have the potential to learn from one another and eventually come up with a very solid international product to rival DL and AA.

Quoting commavia (Reply 16):
Now, contrast that with Continental-United. Every single one of that airline's hubs would be not only massive population centers, but also pretty much the preeminent economic hubs of the regions they serve. If you want to hub in the northeastern United States, you can't really beat New York (EWR) and Washington. If you want a hub in the Upper Midwest, Chicago is by far the largest and most important market. Houston is an exceptional hub for serving booming Texas and the south, and east-west flows. Denver is and always will be the hub of the Rocky Mountain region. And in the west, like in the northeast, if somebody had to choose the two biggest and most important markets, they would obviously be LA and San Francisco.

DL and AA certainly fear this: solid dual east coast and west coast hubs. EWR/IAD would rival DL with JFK/ATL and no carrier really has the strong presence over in SFO/LAX that UA currently does.

Quoting commavia (Reply 16):
But USAirways - dear God that would just be a chaotic mess.

Like I said, I think UA execs have enough common sense to make sure that a merger consisting of US/UA will not happen. They want CO.

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 18):
That isn't a given at all... UA might very well be unable to focus on developing a CO alliance at the same time it is completing a merger w/ US.... UA might destroy itself in the process of a merger....

  



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
25 fun2fly : After reading more about it, I think this is a pretty good set-up for both UA and US. From what I've read, they'll use the Delta/Northwest template fo
26 STT757 : CO's 767-200s would be perfect for UA's P.S. service, just add Livetv and Internet. The 787-8s CO and UA have on order can replace the CO 767-200s an
27 Tommy767 : It really hasn't been that long yet for the DL/NW merger transition. The merger didn't get approved until October 2008 and didn't merger operating ce
28 commavia : I agree on DTW - not MEM, but definitely DTW. DTW as a local market is not exactly doing great right now, with the dire economic and demographic situ
29 Tommy767 : I agree, if the merged carrier wanted to go in that direction but even the 752s can be retrofitted to serve the same purpose. CO 762s have amazing ra
30 RJ111 : You're right, CO/UA would have an insane amount of key hubs for all the areas and all the markets - Just missing MIA really. In addition they would h
31 MPDPilot : Though, I do agree that when you compare UA/CO's network to DL, DL's network does seem to be second tier. I think you underestimate DL's assets some.
32 FL787 : But it still doesn't erase the fact that its metro population is nowhere near Chicago's.
33 CFBFrame : UA is a mess. Tilton may be doing some things right but the unions need to play ball in both day to day and a merger. Labors' not fully committed to t
34 commavia : So would I. MSP is a great hub - no question about it. In fact, it's a phenomenal hub. It's a large population center, with good demographics and a g
35 STT757 : Quite the contrary, it went real smooth with the PeoplExpress merger. They had to sit in Terminal B for a few months then moved into a brand new Term
36 rjpieces : I know. I am just incredibly curious what they would come up with in a merged airline!
37 avek00 : Those with "real" insider knowledge won't comment here or elsewhere about merger discussions, as it'd likely constitute a form of manipulation that a
38 avek00 : You're joking, right? The PE merger was a financial disaster for CO, which had to go so far as to perform expensive heavy maintenance on each PE airc
39 Post contains images Jacobin777 : How about a "threesome".... ...(yes, it would be too big of a mega-carrier to pass anti-trust). ...why do people continually say this? Because its an
40 DeltAirlines : Have to say I completely agree as a resident of Minneapolis. MSP is definitely the second strongest economy in the Midwest. But Chicago makes it look
41 HNL-Jack : Couldn't agree more. While no fan of Tilton, I have to admit he has put the right people in place and now that he has the airline on the apparent rig
42 sancho99504 : Thank you Frank Larenzo! Why does everyone say UA is a mess? or US? UA is in decent shape both financially and customer wise and getting stronger. US
43 Tommy767 : Strongest UA/CO outsource stations based on current flights would probably be: BOS MCO SEA CLE (downsized or not) LHR DFW?
44 EA CO AS : Understood, and no offense intended but I think the point is it's an observation that simply isn't plausible, so it's almost silly to suggest it. The
45 DeltAirlines : Based on next Monday's flight schedule, some ideas: BOS - 48 flights (21 CO, 27 UA, 39 mainline) MCO - 36 flights (19 CO, 17 UA, all mainline) DFW -
46 DC8FanJet : Amen. I agree that much remains to be done, but United has come lightyears, both financially and operationally. While the current union negotiations
47 Post contains links HouStrategies : To clarify on the Fortune 500 HQ thing, that ranking list is based on *city limits*. CA has 51 F500s, roughly evenly split between the LA and SF metro
48 ual777 : How is UA a mess? Their performance so far this year is torching everyone else. YoY PRASM gains are topping 20%!!! UA will do just fine.
49 Post contains links HouStrategies : And to answer the original topic question: Yes. Sigh. http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-with-united/?partner=yahoofinance
50 Tommy767 : You what the biggest problem with this thread is? The title "CO being manipulated by UA." A HUGE bias in the fact that UA is out to destroy CO which i
51 Seatback : Maybe the thread should have been IS CO Being Manipulated by UA? Not sure I get the bias thing. I don't believe UA is out to destroy CO. But my guess
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