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AA To AAply For ORD-GRU?  
User currently offlineGlobalCabotage From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 605 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7375 times:

Not sure if this is true, but AA is interested in ORD-GRU service. This will tie in with NRT, PEK, PVG, and a "soon to be announcet route."

This may be just a response to DL on DTW-GRU, but I see potential.

70 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7364 times:

I would think it would be a good move. AA has enough unrestricted frequencies that they could transfer some MIA-GIG/GRU capacity to ORD-GRU. And given the growth with MIA-REC/SSA/CNF and, soon BSB, that extra MIA-GRU/GIG capacuty is not as important.

It will also be a strong way to counter Delta's attempt at DTW-GRU, which won't be able to grow past 2x weekly unless DL wants to reduce JFK/ATL-GRU or ATL-GIG to less-than-daily. And/or, AA can apply for the three not-applied for frequencies in the current allocation pool to use on MIA-GIG.

AA has 47 unrestricted U.S.-GRU frequencies that are typically allocated as follows:

21x MIA-GRU
7x MIA-GRU (12x during peak winter; 11x during peak summer)
7x DFW-GRU
7x JFK-GRU

What AA is reduce MIA-GRU to 19x weekly and reduce MIA-GIG to 7x weekly, giving it seven frequencies to fly ORD-GRU daily, year-round. Then, it could use Brazil's beyond-bilateral frequencies, which are granted on a year-by-year basis, typically for between 15DEC-28FEB and 15JUN-30AUG, and use that to keep MIA-GIG service at 11x-12x during peak.

I guess we will know soon enough.

[Edited 2010-04-13 18:00:35]


a.
User currently offlineWROORD From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 972 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7318 times:

it would be a nice alternative to UAL. I flew with them once and unless you get econplus you squashed for 12 hours and they only give you some snack....

User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1545 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7264 times:

Quoting WROORD (Reply 2):
it would be a nice alternative to UAL. I flew with them once and unless you get econplus you squashed for 12 hours and they only give you some snack....

It'll be the same on American, only without PTVs.

Quoting GlobalCabotage (Thread starter):
Not sure if this is true, but AA is interested in ORD-GRU service. This will tie in with NRT, PEK, PVG, and a "soon to be announcet route."

Hong Kong??


User currently onlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3833 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7210 times:

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 3):
Quoting GlobalCabotage (Thread starter):
Not sure if this is true, but AA is interested in ORD-GRU service. This will tie in with NRT, PEK, PVG, and a "soon to be announcet route."

Hong Kong??


I cAAn only hope. As I've said many times before, AA needs to fly ORD-HKG with it's own metal to gain pax and lucrative corporate travel contracts from UA. Plus with the CX codeshare, AA could offer far more connections at HKG than UA could ever dream of offering.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3736 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7211 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 1):
that they could transfer some MIA-GIG/GRU capacity to ORD-GRU.

Or transfer those seasonal alternating MIA-GIG and DFW-GRU frequencies to ORD.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 1):
It will also be a strong way to counter Delta's attempt at DTW-GRU, which won't be able to grow past 2x weekly unless DL wants to reduce JFK/ATL-GRU or ATL-GIG to less-than-daily.

Or they could challenge DL on both current LAX-GRU frequencies and top that by applying for those three frequencies they hadn't apllied for transferring them to existing MIA-GIG flights and reusing the unrestricted frequencies to make 5x weekly, even daily depending how they rearrange their network. It would certainly be a bold move.


User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7089 times:

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 5):
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 1):
It will also be a strong way to counter Delta's attempt at DTW-GRU, which won't be able to grow past 2x weekly unless DL wants to reduce JFK/ATL-GRU or ATL-GIG to less-than-daily.

Or they could challenge DL on both current LAX-GRU frequencies and top that by applying for those three frequencies they hadn't apllied for transferring them to existing MIA-GIG flights and reusing the unrestricted frequencies to make 5x weekly, even daily depending how they rearrange their network. It would certainly be a bold move.

All airlines were polled and AA did not object to Delta's transfer, so it might be too late for that.

I do think they should try to go for MIA-GIG frequencies, but that's using the same tricks that Delta tried with ATL-GIG. However, if no other airline is competing for those frequencies, that becomes irrelevant. But no way would AA be awarded more MIA-GIG when competing against another application.



a.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7049 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 1):
AA has 47 unrestricted U.S.-GRU frequencies that are typically allocated as follows:

21x MIA-GRU
7x MIA-GRU (12x during peak winter; 11x during peak summer)
7x DFW-GRU
7x JFK-GRU

21x MIA-GRU
12x DFW-GRU
7x MIA-GIG
7x JFK-GRU-GIG

AA use to move 5x DFW-GRU to MIA-GIG in fact.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 1):
What AA is reduce MIA-GRU to 19x weekly and reduce MIA-GIG to 7x weekly
MIA-GIG is 7x weekly year round except for peak season when AA used in the past second DFW frequencies, they just need to reduce a little MIA-GRU and use the second DFW frequencies.

[Edited 2010-04-13 18:30:30]


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7028 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
21x MIA-GRU
12x DFW-GRU
7x MIA-GIG
7x JFK-GRU-GIG

AA use to move 5x DFW-GRU to MIA-GIG in fact.

We are both wrong.

Those five frequencies are used on 2x MIA-GIG/3x DFW-GRU during summer; 5x MIA-GIG during winter.



a.
User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3778 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6943 times:

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 3):
It'll be the same on American, only without PTVs.

As long as it's the 767 and not the 777.

Can we cut it out with the cutesy plays on "AA" in words with the letter "A" in them? It's getting kinda old after the 10,000th time you've seen it....



PHX based
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6896 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 8):

Up to 2008 use to be the 12x DFW-GRU year round except IATA winter, 12x MIA-GIG IATA winter.
Now AA is not using all the frequencies on DFW year round since 2008.
Agreed ?

MIA-GIG will be 11x during summer, DFW-GRU is down to just 10x this year
But AA can use extra seasonal frequencies to boost MIA-GIG



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3736 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6896 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 6):
All airlines were polled and AA did not object to Delta's transfer, so it might be too late for that.

Oh, I forgot about that.


User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6866 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):

MIA-GIG will be 11x during summer, DFW-GRU is down to just 10x this year
But AA can use extra seasonal frequencies to boost MIA-GIG

MIA-GIG is 9x this summer. Guess it didn't get the extra seasonal frequencies.



a.
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3736 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6783 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 12):
MIA-GIG is 9x this summer. Guess it didn't get the extra seasonal frequencies.

When exactly?


User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1545 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6734 times:


I'd wager that an ORD-GRU route would, like ORD-EZE, be run with a 767, though with the new configurations putting the 777 and 767 within ~25 seats of each other (the 763 has no F and 16 fewer J seats), it isn't out of the question for American to put a 777 such a route, namely offer F class service from South America to Asia (though at this point it can be done via New York or Dallas on AA metal).

align="CENTER" width="95%" class="quote" >
Quoting 777STL (Reply 9):
As long as it's the 767 and not the 777.
User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6708 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 1):
7x MIA-GRU (12x during peak winter; 11x during peak summer)

MIA-GIG.

Didn't/doesn't AA run JFK-GIG non-stop at point in the year?



yep.
User currently offlineworldtraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6625 times:

Quoting GlobalCabotage (Thread starter):
AA is interested in ORD-GRU service.

While reasonable and even likely, what is the source of this statement?


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6610 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 12):
MIA-GIG is 9x this summer. Guess it didn't get the extra seasonal frequencies.

Strange. Jun15-Jun30 still shows MIA-GIG 11x weekly, GIG-MIA just 9. On July 15-30, GIG-MIA is 11x and MIA-GIG is 9x
May be 2 frequencies are zero out on all classes (i'm using AA uptaded schedule)



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3736 posts, RR: 19
Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6534 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):
Strange. Jun15-Jun30 still shows MIA-GIG 11x weekly, GIG-MIA just 9. On July 15-30, GIG-MIA is 11x and MIA-GIG is 9x
May be 2 frequencies are zero out on all classes (i'm using AA uptaded schedule)

On Amadeus it shows 13x weekly in July...


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7814 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6473 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
Up to 2008 use to be the 12x DFW-GRU year round except IATA winter, 12x MIA-GIG IATA winter.
Now AA is not using all the frequencies on DFW year round since 2008.
Agreed ?

The reason for it is that AA upgraded DFW-GRU to a 777. With the extra capacity on 963/962, they can scale back on the extra frequency.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineworldtraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6466 times:

You mean that AA is not using all of its allocated frequencies?

User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6409 times:

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 20):
You mean that AA is not using all of its allocated frequencies?

Sorry to disappoint, but AA is using every single one of it's 58 Brazil frequencies.



a.
User currently offlineworldtraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6400 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 21):

Sorry to disappoint

certainly doesn't disappoint me... but apparently there are a few people who aren't sure where all of those frequencies are being used.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 19):
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
Up to 2008 use to be the 12x DFW-GRU year round except IATA winter, 12x MIA-GIG IATA winter.
Now AA is not using all the frequencies on DFW year round since 2008.
Agreed ?

The reason for it is that AA upgraded DFW-GRU to a 777. With the extra capacity on 963/962, they can scale back on the extra frequency.
Quoting C010T3 (Reply 18):
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):
Strange. Jun15-Jun30 still shows MIA-GIG 11x weekly, GIG-MIA just 9. On July 15-30, GIG-MIA is 11x and MIA-GIG is 9x
May be 2 frequencies are zero out on all classes (i'm using AA uptaded schedule)

On Amadeus it shows 13x weekly in July...


User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6385 times:

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 22):
certainly doesn't disappoint me... but apparently there are a few people who aren't sure where all of those frequencies are being used.

That is because AA rotates them between DFW-GRU and MIA-GIG. The beauty of unrestricted frequencies not tied to routes.

And because AA uses all of its frequencies and still needs more, the Brazilian government typically grants it additional frequencies during the summer. That's the confusion, whether or not those additional frequencies are being granted this summer. They are used to increase MIA-GIG further.

[Edited 2010-04-13 20:27:29]


a.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6319 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Back to main topic, i doubt AA will try ORD-GRU because probably they think that MIA, JFK and DFW covers very well the demand, and ORD is not the best hub for South America.


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
25 OA412 : You're correct in stating that ORD is less than ideal as a hub for deep South America, but UA seems to do just fine with their ORD-GRU service. IMHO,
26 Cubsrule : I do think the number of other hubs with Brasil service is a difference, though. There are plenty of cities in the UA network that can reach no hub w
27 OA412 : You are indeed correct and I did consider that when responding. Obviously, UA has less "leniancy" with their hubs than does AA vis-a-vis Brazil servi
28 FutureUScapt : What about PEK and PVG? Plus, it allows for an additional NRT option.
29 LipeGIG : I have doubt about the quality of the yield that you will attract. For mostly good markets is a back track and i believe if we see in the near future
30 Bismarck : This may become a reality. With UA entering both the ORD-BRU and ORD-FCO routes, it may be retaliation by AA. UA is also very nervous about AA enterin
31 klkla : This makes mo sense as a reaction to DL wanting to fly DTW-GRU. AA doesn't have nearly the Asian connections or domestic connections to make this work
32 mah4546 : AA offers daily ORD-NRT, ORD-DEL, ORD-PVG and, starting in two weeks, daily ORD-PEK. And, as hinted, another Asia route is in the works (although tha
33 777STL : ICN or HKG?
34 LAXdude1023 : If AA were serious about it, they would have applied for it. They didnt. So we dont know if AA is interested in it or not.
35 worldtraveler : Yes, DL has unrestricted frequencies too; they know how they work. No, the Brazilian gov't grants NOTHING to US airlines. The treaty is between the U
36 commavia : Delta is doing a fine job of helping AA out in that regard since they can't seem to really get their Brazilian operation outside of Atlanta straight.
37 United787 : UA doesn't consider ORD a hub for deep South America, it is merely connecting two large business centers. Just because UA seems to do fine, doesn't m
38 AAEXP : Did you forget about GOL?
39 United787 : Oops, I did...I still think AA would be the underdog on this route...
40 United1 : GOL is beginning to ally itself with DL...If I were AA I would not count on them for feed for much longer..
41 Post contains images AAEXP : That must be why they have recently announced a code sharing/interlining agreement with AA
42 Cubsrule : Can G3 not be the AS of South America? Codesharing with DL certainly does not mean that they cannot codeshare with AA. One advantage that UA does hav
43 LAXdude1023 : They are the AS of South America. They can have more than one partner. AA and DL provide the most feed to South America from the US. Its ideal for GO
44 DFWEagle : AA has not yet even started to display its code on GOL flights and only announced the deal only a few months ago. The fact that GOL has announced cod
45 Post contains links United1 : They did the same with DL... http://www.marketwatch.com/story/del...inhas-deal-2010-04-14?siteid=yhoof Fair enough I'm not all that familiar with GOL
46 mah4546 : There is no need for an application. AA has 47 frequencies that can be used at its leisure, including on ORD-GRU. Wrong. The Brazilian government gra
47 LipeGIG : I still don't think AA would jeopardize it's current MIA operations to venture into ORD to get the same number of passengers, to open a new marketing
48 LAXdude1023 : That being the case, maybe it could work seasonally? I think UA has pretty much all the contracts on the ORD-GRU traffic (I think they have one with
49 LAX777LR : And if JL ends JFK-GRU, this is yet connection point for Oneworld Asia - Brazil traffic
50 deltal1011man : PVG will also be going year round daily starting in May They do know but wont be moving any. All of them are used in ATL and they would be cuttiing A
51 United787 : Doesn't UA also have some more *Alliance feed from Asia than AA?
52 worldtraveler : correct...we also do not have a source for the OP's claim that AA is going to apply for ORD-GRU.... we also didn't see AA apply for LAX-GRU despite s
53 LipeGIG : Still untouched as they will continue to fly JFK-NRT and AA is about to offer not anymore just JFK-GRU-GIG but rather JFK-GIG and JFK-GRU. WT, the op
54 worldtraveler : I am aware that DL is the only US carrier besides AA that has used these frequencies..... except that UA has a whole lot more capacity and gets highe
55 deltal1011man : Yes, NH has 1x NRT and OZ has 1x ICN, oneWorld only has 1x JL NRT
56 mah4546 : AA does not need to apply for ORD-GRU. But, hey, let's not let facts get in the way here. If AA starts ORD-GRU, Delta has every reason to be worried
57 deltal1011man : Um why? DL's DTW hub is larger, by flights and seats, and has more seats to NRT, and NGO than AA has to Japan (oh and i wouldn't pull JL into this be
58 mah4546 : Because, as of now, Delta will be operating it at 2x weekly. The application for the other 5 weekly frequencies is going to be dismissed. There are o
59 Post contains images deltal1011man : hmmm I don't believe i have wished job losses on airline employees like you have. JL flying ORD-NRT is very likely on its way out......now AA will li
60 mah4546 : AA can't just pick it up because Narita slots are not intra-carrier transferable. And that is exactly why O'Hare-Narita isn't going anywhere. The lis
61 deltal1011man : I saw, but I seem to remember the Japanese news papers saying JL would be moving to SkyTeam......... means nothing. Ill say this one more time. I am
62 Post contains images Carlisle : Response or no response to DL's move (DTW-GRU), I think that it's a good decision to investigfate this potential AA operation as there are a lot of Ea
63 LipeGIG : In fact CO and US are the only carriers using all frequencies. UA also have 7 that they did not use 95% of the past twelve months. Well, we both agre
64 deltal1011man : Hope not, but they wont be doing anything with those rights till its a dead deal. (IMHO they will end up sueing the DOT/FAA for over stepping so it'l
65 mah4546 : Really? So AA is supposed to have Narita flights leaving Chicago within 30 to 60 minutes so of each other? One of the benefits of ATI will be that JA
66 FWAERJ : Let me guess... you're on Southwest's side.
67 LipeGIG : Thanks, but nothing limits Delta from asking more ATL-GIG or even 3x weekly VCP-ATL or more BSB-ATL. If they do not apply, will be a big mistake in m
68 Post contains images deltal1011man : Oh hell no. If it must change than I'm all fo rthe slot swap. WN saying that they should get into LGA because they are Southwest is crap. (and the DO
69 klkla : Actually the ability to upgrade is significant, especially from ATL. Their 747-400's seat over 400 passengers, the higest denisty aircraft of any U.S
70 mah4546 : You are kidding, me right? I realize they currently leave at times near each other. The airlines compete and cannot coordinate schedules. With ATI, t
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