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In Order, What Are The Four Top Selling W/B.  
User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3758 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 13917 times:

At the beginning of last year, the four top selling wide bodies in history, was the 747 in first place, 777 in second place, 767 in third place and the A330 in fourth. The A330, has been selling like hot cakes in recent times. So is the A330 still in fourth place or third now, also how long do you think it will take the 787 and A350XWB, to knock some of these heavy birds out of the top four, and which ones are going down first?



[Edited 2010-04-17 16:35:22 by srbmod]

68 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31444 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 13775 times:
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In terms of orders, as of the end of March 2010:

B747 Family - 1526
B777 Family - 1114
A330 Family - 1081
B767 Family - 1041
B787 Family - 0866
A350 Family - 0530
A340 Family - 0378


User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 13665 times:

The top 10 is as follows (with total number sold so far).

1) 747 (1526)
2) 777 (1114)
3) a330 (1081)
4) 767 (1041)
5) 787 (866)
6) a300 (561)
7) a350 (530)
8) DC10 (446)
9) Lockheed Tristar (250)
10) MD11 (200)

So, the 747 is not likely to be caught anytime soon. The 777 and a330 are both still selling well and are pretty close. The 787 and a350 sales have come to a stand still recently (but so have the sales of all aircraft). The a350 has a while to go to reach 1000, while the 787 is almost there.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineklkla From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 948 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 13603 times:

Quoting Kappel (Reply 3):
1) 747 (1526)
2) 777 (1114)
3) a330 (1081)
4) 767 (1041)
5) 787 (866)
6) a300 (561)
7) a350 (530)
8) DC10 (446)
9) Lockheed Tristar (250)
10) MD11 (200)

Thanks for the compilation? Is that all inclusive all widebodies manufactured commerically? Also, I notice the A380 is missing.


User currently onlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17198 posts, RR: 66
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 13317 times:

The 330 and 340 are pretty much the same family. They were developed as one program and they share most components. They are just marketed with different names. The differences are arguably on par with those between 747SP, 747-100/200, 747-300, 747-400.

Counting the 330 and 340 together yields 1459.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26029 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 13294 times:

Quoting klkla (Reply 3):
Thanks for the compilation? Is that all inclusive all widebodies manufactured commerically? Also, I notice the A380 is missing.

Three that appear to be missing:
A310 - 255 built
Ilyushin 86 - 106 built (approx.)
Ilyushin 96 - 23 built (approx.)


User currently offlinec5load From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 917 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 13204 times:

Quoting Kappel (Reply 2):
The top 10 is as follows (with total number sold so far).

1) 747 (1526)
2) 777 (1114)
3) a330 (1081)
4) 767 (1041)
5) 787 (866)
6) a300 (561)
7) a350 (530)
8) DC10 (446)
9) Lockheed Tristar (250)
10) MD11 (200)

The problem with this list is that the DC-10, L-1011, and the MD-11 aren't being made anymore, so it's not really fair to put those in the same list as with airplanes that are still on the assembly line.



"But this airplane has 4 engines, it's an entirely different kind of flying! Altogether"
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 13204 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 4):
The 330 and 340 are pretty much the same family. They were developed as one program and they share most components. They are just marketed with different names.

They're no more the same family than the 757/767 are.

Tom.


User currently offline93Sierra From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 13003 times:

With ANA's 767 order back in December and Uzbekistan Airways in November how much longer will the 767 line be open after they are fullfilled? If the Air Force contract does not come to fruition will it be the end of the line? If the contract does occur, will the 767 take over A 330?

User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 12941 times:

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 8):
With ANA's 767 order back in December and Uzbekistan Airways in November how much longer will the 767 line be open after they are fullfilled?

1041 orders - 985 deliveries = 56 backlog. At their current production rate, I think that's over 4 years right there.

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 8):
If the Air Force contract does not come to fruition will it be the end of the line?

Yes, unless somebody else orders a bunch more 767's, but that doesn't seem that likely.

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 8):
If the contract does occur, will the 767 take over A 330?

Only if the A330 doesn't sell much more...it probably has a lot more life in it than the 767 line does. The A350 isn't nearly as obvious an A330 killer as the 787 is a 767 killer.

Tom.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31444 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 12874 times:
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Whichever frame wins KC-X will generate at least a few hundred orders.

If the A330 MRTT does not win KC-X, it will still likely win most tanker RFPs from other Air Forces. The A330-200F should also be a solid seller.

I won't go so far as to say "killer", but if the 787 Piano-X projections are close to the truth, I believe a 15+% fuel burn advantage is going to put a dent in the desirability of the A330 family in it's current form.


User currently offlineviscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26029 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 12756 times:

Quoting c5load (Reply 6):
The problem with this list is that the DC-10, L-1011, and the MD-11 aren't being made anymore, so it's not really fair to put those in the same list as with airplanes that are still on the assembly line.

And for the types that are still in production, the length of time they've been on the market should be considered. It's taken the 747 44 years to accumulate 1526 orders, while 1114 777s have been sold in slighty less than 20 years (launch order October 1990).

As a matter of interest, 20 years after the 747 launch, orders stood at 703. The 767 sold 809 in its first 20 years.


User currently offlineWarpSpeed From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 595 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 12635 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 7):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 4):
The 330 and 340 are pretty much the same family. They were developed as one program and they share most components. They are just marketed with different names.

They're no more the same family than the 757/767 are.

Tom.

That's a big stretch as there are many more differences b/t the 757/767 than the A330/A340. The 757 is a narrow-body for one and this is a W/B list.

However, I would propose that the list go by how the air-framers designate the models. The A330 and A340 are distinct classes in the eyes of Airbus. The DC10 and the MD11 where distinct to McDonnell-Douglas (if lumped together as a "family" that three-holer would leap frog over the A300 and A350 to take the #6 position.)

Quoting c5load (Reply 6):
The problem with this list is that the DC-10, L-1011, and the MD-11 aren't being made anymore,

Nor is the A300 as production ceased in July 2007. However, I vote for leaving the out of production aircraft on the list. Perhaps an asterisk could designate those planes no longer in production?

Quoting viscount724 (Reply 11):
And for the types that are still in production, the length of time they've been on the market should be considered.

And, a line graph would better represent the data. Frames Delivered over Time - call out the desired time frame - the plane with the highest slope incline wins?

All the planes listed are distinguished in some way or another....



DaHjaj jaj QaQ Daghajjaj !!!!
User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12502 times:

Quoting klkla (Reply 3):
Thanks for the compilation? Is that all inclusive all widebodies manufactured commerically? Also, I notice the A380 is missing.

Indeed, missed it.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):
Three that appear to be missing:
A310 - 255 built

As is the a340... apologies, it was late last night when I compiled the list.

Quoting c5load (Reply 6):
The problem with this list is that the DC-10, L-1011, and the MD-11 aren't being made anymore,

So is the a300.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
but if the 787 Piano-X projections
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):
lyushin 86 - 106 built (approx.)
Ilyushin 96 - 23 built (approx.)

I left the Ilyushins out because of the relative small numbers sold, but you are correct, those would make the widebody list complete. So here is the full list:

1) 747 (1526)
2) 777 (1114)
3) a330 (1081)
4) 767 (1041)
5) 787 (866)
6) a300 (561)
7) a350 (530)
8) DC10 (446)
9) a340 (378)
10) A310 (255)
11) Lockheed Tristar (250)
12) a380 (202)
13) MD11 (200)
14) Ilyushing 86 (103)
15) Ilyushing 96 (23)

Note that the april orders are not included. Further as mentioned, the a300, a310, DC10, L1011, MD11 and IL86 are no longer in production. It is also unlikely the a340 and IL96 will gain any (or at least significant) new orders. The 767 depends on the KCX contract. The 787 and a350 will no doubt still be raking in the orders for years to come. I expect the 777 and a330 to gain more orders and expect them to stay about on par (except of course in the unlikely event the a330 gets the KCX order).

Quoting WarpSpeed (Reply 12):
And, a line graph would better represent the data. Frames Delivered over Time - call out the desired time frame - the plane with the highest slope incline wins?

Haha, do you volounteer yourself for this duty? It would be cool to see, I agree.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12214 times:

Just for the heck of it, I also looked at narrowbody jets sold (70 seats and up):

1) 737 family (8409, of which 1125 731/732, 1988 733/734/735 and 5296 737NG, incl BBJ's and wedgetails)
2) a320 family (6539)
3) 727 (1831)
4) 757 (1049)
5) MD80 (1191, but including the DC9, MD90 and 717, total is 2438)
6) 707 (1010, includes 720)
7) DC9 (976)
8) Tupolev 154 (app. 900)
9) E-Jets (882)
10) Tupolev 134 (app. 700)
11) CRJ700/900/1000 (641)
12) DC8 (556)
13) BAe 146/AvroRJ (387)
14) Fokker 70/100 (331)
15) Caravelle (282)
16) Ilyushin 62 (app. 250)
17) Fokker 28 (241)
18) BAC 1-11 (235)
19) 717 (155)
20) HS Trident (117)
21) MD90 (116)
22) DeHavilland Comet (114)
23) Convair 880 (65)
24) Vickers VC10 (54)
25) Convair 990 (37)
26) Dassault Mercure (12)

More than likely I forget a few. It's also not really fair to compare some of these aircraft, a 707 can't be compared with a CRJ or E Jet of course. But this is just to give an impression of numbers sold and it shows s few big (commercial) failures.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12173 times:

Quoting WarpSpeed (Reply 12):
However, I would propose that the list go by how the air-framers designate the models. The A330 and A340 are distinct classes in the eyes of Airbus.

Really?

Per Airbus...

The A330/A340 Family concept is unique: one basic airframe is available in six different configurations, powered by two or four engines.


User currently offlineOlympicATH From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12011 times:

About the A330/A340

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 7):
They're no more the same family than the 757/767 are.

Wrong

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 4):
The 330 and 340 are pretty much the same family. They were developed as one program and they share most components. They are just marketed with different names. The differences are arguably on par with those between 747SP, 747-100/200, 747-300, 747-400.

Counting the 330 and 340 together yields 1459.
Quoting WarpSpeed (Reply 12):
That's a big stretch as there are many more differences b/t the 757/767 than the A330/A340. The 757 is a narrow-body for one and this is a W/B list.
Quoting RJ111 (Reply 15):
Really?

Per Airbus...

The A330/A340 Family concept is unique: one basic airframe is available in six different configurations, powered by two or four engines.

  

The A330 and A340 were developed as a single program/family. They share the same frame and most components.

Here's more from Airbus:

The twin-engine A330 is optimised for highest revenue generation and the lowest operating costs from regional segments to extended range routes, while the four-engine A340 provides versatility on the most demanding long-range and ultra-long-range flights.
The A330/A340 Family is composed of six jetliner versions that share the same fuselage cross-section and offer significant commonality with the optimum mix of operating characteristics in terms of aircraft size, range and economics.
The A330/A340 use Airbus’ unique 222-inch fuselage cross-section, offering the highest levels of comfort in all travel classes. Large underfloor cargo areas accommodate containerised or palletised cargo, including the industry-standard LD-3 containers.

http://www.airbus.com/en/aircraftfamilies/a330a340

As a matter of fact, Airbus also thinks of the A300 and the A310 as belonging to one family:
http://www.airbus.com/en/aircraftfamilies/a300a310

Therefore, we have:

1) 747 (1526)
2) A330/A340 (1459)
3) 777 (1114)
4) 767 (1041)
5) 787 (866)
6) A300/A310 (816)
7) A350 (530)
8) DC10 (446)
9) Lockheed Tristar (250)
10) a380 (202)
11) MD11 (200)
12) Ilyushing 86 (103)
13) Ilyushing 96 (23)


User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4360 posts, RR: 35
Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11843 times:

Quoting Kappel (Reply 14):
Just for the heck of it, I also looked at narrowbody jets sold

You forgot some interesting types;
Concorde (14)
COMAC/ARJ21 (around 180 mostly soft orders, meaning it's doubtful they will all be delivered)
Mitsubishi MRJ, 65 orders
Sukhoi Superjet, 201 often 'soft orders'
VFW-614 (19 built, of which few were actual ordered)
Yak-40 (182 built)
Tu-104 (201 built)
Tu-124 (163 built)
Tu-144 (17 built, few or none actually ordered)
Tu-204/214 (around 60 built)



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11667 times:

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 17):
You forgot some interesting types

Yeah, the list was so long already, I was bound to forget a few. I did purposely exclude the ARJ21, Superjet, C-series and MRJ either because they haven't flown yet, or the large amount of what you call "soft" orders.

Quoting OlympicATH (Reply 16):
As a matter of fact, Airbus also thinks of the A300 and the A310 as belonging to one family:

The a310 and a300 do have a few significant differences, most notably the wing on the a310 is much smaller. The trouble with the a340 is that, while the a342 and a343 do share a lot with the a332/a333 (IIRC about 90% of components, the a345 and a346 share much less with them. It was also one of the complaints of for example VS, that Airbus used less common parts. That is why I separated the a330 and a340 in my list.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 11443 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 4):
The 330 and 340 are pretty much the same family. They were developed as one program and they share most components. They are just marketed with different names. The differences are arguably on par with those between 747SP, 747-100/200, 747-300, 747-400.

Counting the 330 and 340 together yields 1459.

A346 has less in common with A343 than A333 does in several aspects. 737-200 shares fairly little in common with 737-800, but shares a fair amount with 727. In some ways, A320 and A330 have in common (flight controls, electronic systems) than A330 does with A300, which is the same base fuselage design. Relationships will exist. Aircraft are defined by their fundamental concept, not their part sharing - how one may describe it to someone who had never seen it. A VW Golf shares an awful lot of parts and its fundamental structural design with an Audi TT, it doesn't make them the same car.

A330 is a mid-long haul twin, A340 is a long-haul quad. They do have large similarities. They are not the same aircraft.

If Boeing ever slings a pair of a GE90's under the wing of a 747 and tries to call it a 747, I'll be the first in line to tell you it's not.

Quoting OlympicATH (Reply 16):
Therefore, we have:

1) 747 (1526)
2) A330/A340 (1459)
3) 777 (1114)
4) 767 (1041)
5) 787 (866)
6) A300/A310 (816)
7) A350 (530)
8) DC10 (446)
9) Lockheed Tristar (250)
10) a380 (202)
11) MD11 (200)
12) Ilyushing 86 (103)
13) Ilyushing 96 (23)

So you count A300/A310 as the same, A330/A340 as the same, but not DC10/MD11? Am I missing something?

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 9):
Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 8):
If the Air Force contract does not come to fruition will it be the end of the line?

Yes, unless somebody else orders a bunch more 767's, but that doesn't seem that likely.

The USAF could (and very likely will) order several hundred of them yet.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
If the A330 MRTT does not win KC-X, it will still likely win most tanker RFPs from other Air Forces. The A330-200F should also be a solid seller.

I was under the impression they had pulled their bid from the new contest for the USAF, and even if it does win for other air forces, all of them together will still be smaller by a great margin than how many the USAF is set to procure.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 11389 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 19):
If Boeing ever slings a pair of a GE90's under the wing of a 747 and tries to call it a 747, I'll be the first in line to tell you it's not.

So this wouldn't have been a 747 then?



User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31444 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11317 times:
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Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 19):
I was under the impression they had pulled their bid from the new contest for the USAF, and even if it does win for other air forces, all of them together will still be smaller by a great margin than how many the USAF is set to procure.

They may yet be back in. See the multiple discussions in MilAv.

And yes, the A330 MRTT would most likely see significantly less sales than the KC-767, but combined with additional A330 passenger and freighter sales (which the 767 is unlikely to secure going forward), they may "balance out".


User currently offlineOlympicATH From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11073 times:

Quoting Kappel (Reply 18):
The a310 and a300 do have a few significant differences, most notably the wing on the a310 is much smaller.

Yes, totally right. However, Airbus developed both aircraft together as a single program. At the end of the day, I think we should listen to what the manufacturer itself thinks.

Quoting Kappel (Reply 18):
The trouble with the a340 is that, while the a342 and a343 do share a lot with the a332/a333 (IIRC about 90% of components, the a345 and a346 share much less with them. It was also one of the complaints of for example VS, that Airbus used less common parts. That is why I separated the a330 and a340 in my list.

Again, you're absolutely right. However as you say yourself, the real distinction we can make is between the 342/343 and the 345/346, not between the A330 and the A340. The A330 and the original A340 were clearly developed as two variants of the same aircraft family. I therefore think it is safe to say the A330 and the A340 (generally speaking) belong in the same family, although Airbus did later develop two A340 models with major differences (notably a longer fuselage and a bigger wing, plus new different parts).

For instance, the 747-100 or the 747SP and the 747-8 do not share all of their parts and will undoubtedly be quite different aircraft. However, everyone agrees that that the 747-8 is a 747.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 19):
Aircraft are defined by their fundamental concept, not their part sharing - how one may describe it to someone who had never seen it. A VW Golf shares an awful lot of parts and its fundamental structural design with an Audi TT, it doesn't make them the same car.

A330 is a mid-long haul twin, A340 is a long-haul quad. They do have large similarities. They are not the same aircraft.

If Boeing ever slings a pair of a GE90's under the wing of a 747 and tries to call it a 747, I'll be the first in line to tell you it's not.

The A330 and the A340 have always been considered by Airbus (the manufacturer itself) as being part of the same family. They do share the same "fundamental concept" as you say: The A330/A340 Family concept is unique: one basic airframe is available in six different configurations, powered by two or four engines. The twin-engine A330 is optimised for highest revenue generation and the lowest operating costs from regional segments to extended range routes, while the four-engine A340 provides versatility on the most demanding long-range and ultra-long-range flights.

You are right, the Golf and the TT are two different cars but the Golf and the Jetta are part of the same family. Sure, the Golf is a hatchback and the Jetta is a sedan which makes them very different. But VW developed the Jetta by adding a trunk to the Golf along with some new styling elements. The two cars share the same platform (the VW Group A platform) and are mechanically very similar.

The A330 and the original A340 were designed in parallel, they share the same wing and fuselage structure along with the avionics and composite structure technology originally developed for the A320. Yes, the A340 has four engines (mainly to overcome ETOPS issues) but these two aircraft should definitely be considered as being part of the same family.

As I said above, the 747-8 has a completely redesigned wing, uses the same engine and cockpit technology as the 787 and Boeing uses carbon-fibre reinforced plastic in its airframe to reduce weight. However, everybody here seems to agree that the 747-8 is a 747. Is it just because they share the same name? What if the A340 was named the A330-8?

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 19):
So you count A300/A310 as the same, A330/A340 as the same, but not DC10/MD11? Am I missing something?

Well, the MD-11 was developed as a replacement for the DC-10. They were not designed in parallel as parts of the same program. However, I don't know what the official position of McDonnell Douglas was on the matter. As I said before, I think it's important to listen to what manufacturer has to say. These are the people that designed and built the planes in the first place, which makes them the most reliable source. If Airbus clearly states that the A330 and A340 are part of the same family then they are. If McDonnell Douglas says the same about the DC-10 and MD-11 then you are totally right, mea culpa.


User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7735 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10976 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 4):
The 330 and 340 are pretty much the same family. They were developed as one program and they share most components. They are just marketed with different names. The differences are arguably on par with those between 747SP, 747-100/200, 747-300, 747-400.

How is a twin engine a/c the same as a 4 engine a/c and how does that compare to the various 747 families which are all 4 engine a/c, are we just being technical or what?
If a 757-300 can hold the same amount as a 767-200 do we call them the same family or do we say wide body and narrow body?
Irrespective of what the OEM chooses to call it, for me, the A330 a twin ETOPS a/c is not the same as the A340 four engine a/c for purposes of totalling up wide body sales or a/c in operation.
Thats just my opinion, I welcome agreement or disagreement.


User currently offlineOlympicATH From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10952 times:

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 20):
So this wouldn't have been a 747 then?

   Exactly RJ111, I had totally forgotten about the 747-300 Trijet. It was something Boeing worked on in the 1970s to compete with the L-1011 and the DC-10 as a lower-cost alternative to the SP. It was never built but it would have been a very interesting 747.


25 Post contains images Hamlet69 : So let me get this straight - you want to argue that the A330 and A340 are the same aircraft, because Airbus developed them at the same time and shar
26 Post contains images Hamlet69 : A list of the top-selling widebody commercial aircraft of all time? Simple. (as of 31/03/10) 1). 787-8 (671) 2). A330-200 (573) 3). 767-300ER (568) 4)
27 Post contains images A333TS : I think that this list is one of the best here so far. A333TS
28 Post contains images OlympicATH : It's not just about the number of engines. RJ111 reminded us of with the 747-300 Trijet, which would have had 3 engines instead of 4 (and, of course,
29 Post contains images keesje : Correct apart from the wings, fuselage, engines, systems and usage, they are pretty much the same.
30 Post contains links B2707SST : A much better indicator than what the manufacturer says - which is mostly marketing speak anyway - is what the relevant authorities say, since they d
31 Viscount724 : I wouldn't agree with that. While the A330/340 were launched at the same time, the first A310 didn't fly until 10 years after the first A300. The A31
32 frmrCapCadet : Love (don't) these terminology battles. A list is highly artificial, and most of them offer an interesting slant and different views of reality, whate
33 Post contains images lightsaber : The fun of this thread has been the lists. This list of sales by sub-type are very interesting. Thank you. In many ways I find this the most interest
34 Post contains images Hamlet69 : You're welcome. I apologize if the tone of my post came across as 'attacking' or 'accusatory' to you personally. My intention was more to point out h
35 tdscanuck : A330 vs. A340: different wing, different engine, different systems (on the same basis that you're claiming 757/767 are diferent systems), different u
36 Post contains images PM : What fun! This is a good list but a tiny quibble would be putting the 747-400 above the A330-300. OK, the 747 got to 442 first but - and I'm sticking
37 Post contains images UAL747 : Completely Objective, purely in numbers: 1. Boeing 2. Airbus 3. McDonnell-Douglas 4. Lockheed Edit: D'oh! Boeing bought MD and the MD-11 became a Boei
38 Burkhard : A comment about A330 and A340 being the same family or not. Family is a concept borrowed from biology. Biology ( at least the Linné system ) is stron
39 Post contains images Kappel : It certainly was. Not all nations developing the a300 wanted a 300 seater. France was most vocal about a 300 seater, but Germany wanted a much smalle
40 worldrider : YES, a few other birds are missing! i.e. the A340 should be n°7 or 8, the A380 shoulb be in the top 10, also the A310...
41 Post contains images Kappel : I guess you didn't read the entire thread
42 Post contains images SEPilot : I had always considered military variants separate, although in this case they will explicitly be using the civilian airframe, whereas the KC-135 was
43 Post contains images Hamlet69 : True. Then again, there's also a greater chance of further A330-300 cancellations than of the 747-400. LOL! In all seriousness, tho, put either one o
44 SEPilot : I think you are being a little too picky-all of these are -400's. And do you know if the KC-10's are included in the DC-10 total? If you exclude thes
45 Post contains images Hamlet69 : I certainly could be. At least in my opinion tho, it is the simplest, most straight-forward way of looking at the question, without introducing the p
46 Kappel : Yep: DC-10-10: 131 DC-10-15: 7 DC-10-30: 170 DC-10-30(C)F: 36 DC-10-40: 42 DC-10-KC-10: 60 Total: 446
47 Post contains images Transpac787 : And A332 to A346?? Correct apart from the wings, fuselage, engines, systems and usage, they are pretty much the same.
48 SEPilot : Well, I understand your position, although I disagree. I think the best division is by going by the FAA type certificates. You're right, I was lookin
49 Post contains links and images keesje : You've convinced me. If you say the A330 and A340 are one family (cockpit, fuselage, tail, most of wing, most systems (partnr level) then so are the
50 Transpac787 : The cockpit and most systems on the 757 and 767 are identical, so what's your point?? Our point is that the 757 and 767 are equally as "identical" as
51 Viscount724 : And the A319. Why did it take 10 years between the first flights of the A300 and A310? If there was strong demand for an A310-size aircraft initially
52 RJ111 : Let's not be silly now. The body is the most defining part of an aircraft and 757's and 767's are drastically different - like it or not. I agree the
53 Kappel : Well, AFAIK it has a lot to do with the fact that they were still developing the a300B into more capable versions, from the original A300B1 to the a3
54 Post contains images lightsaber : Nice counter point. However, I believe with the latest A333 range increase that trend is quickly reversing. Where is the popcorn smilie? I need a pop
55 tdscanuck : I don't understand that statement at all. By that logic, the 707, 727, and 737 are all the same family. Tom.
56 Tigerotor77W : Maybe the appropriate question to ask is which airframe (including variants, so 757, A330, etc) each model has made. But of course we have no idea how
57 Post contains images PM : Can't argue with that! Indeed. Personally, I tend to be a 'splitter' rather than a 'lumper'... unless it suits my argument to go the other way! you d
58 Post contains images RJ111 : I said the fuselage is the most definining, not all defining. Which is why i won't accept that the 757 and 767 are equally alike to the A332 and A346
59 PM : En passant (comme on dit), it might be noted that ILFC's most favoured widebody is the A330. They've ordered 98 of them. A330 98 777 79 787 74 767 57
60 AirbusA6 : It's a mess defining subtypes, and which should be combined to get total sales. For example, the differences between the 747-100 and 200 series are pr
61 Post contains images Starlionblue : Man, I love throwing that 330/340 argument in there. I must admit though, that it has never been this entertaining. It's no use trying to define thing
62 rheinwaldner : The only real discriminator between A330/A340 can be described as "engine option". Officially and in reality. This 2/4 engine option was a trick to e
63 Burkhard : I find the fact that the A330 and A340 share the same MSN a convincing one to count them as one family. Which males 747 from SP to 800 again one famil
64 Post contains images Starlionblue : Don't forget the extra engines! Also, IIRC the 333 has a stronger wing due to less wing bending relief.
65 Post contains images Kappel : Indeed, a fun fact to know! Actually, the a343 wing is strengthened around the outer pylons to cope with the weight and forces of the outboard engine
66 MEA-707 : In your logic, the 737 has two different sets of MSN's (line numbers), 1-3132 for the 100s to 500s and they restarted at 1 for the 600-900s. On the m
67 Starlionblue : Really? I thought the extra engines gave extra bending relief and thus allowed a weaker wing.
68 SEPilot : As I understand it, the A343 would need less wing strength due to the outboard engines but then needs more because of the higher MTOW. So I suspect t
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