turjo101 From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 109 posts, RR: 0 Posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 15611 times:
After more than 10 years of frequenting airliners.net this is my very first post...So firstly hi everyone!!!
Nothing serious... might have even been routine for the last few days; but as I was browsing AirNav Live, I noticed that EK 215 (DXB-LAX) operated with 77L and EK 225 (DXB-SFO) operated with 77W are redirected to YYZ. Their website says they were rerouted in flight. They will have 200 and 271 minutes delay respectively to reach their original destination.
Now I know the volcanic ash is forcing them to take a more southerly route, but the 77L at least shouldn't have any problems flying a few more hours directly to LAX should it? I mean LY flew their routine TLV-LAX flight with their 772 with only 70 mins delay. So any idea as to why Toronto is so fortunate to see 3 EK birds today?
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 16737 posts, RR: 28
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 15576 times:
Quoting turjo101 (Thread starter): Now I know the volcanic ash is forcing them to take a more southerly route, but the 77L at least shouldn't have any problems flying a few more hours directly to LAX should it?
Maybe, I don't have time to check out the maps, but do keep in mind that they will have to comply with ETOPS rules so they will have to carry significantly more fuel than what would be necessary just to complete the flight.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
turjo101 From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 15344 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2): At least on the LAX flight, the closure of airspace precluded the utilization of the normal near polar flight paths, so instead they are operating with planned fuel stop in YYZ.
LY 05 from TLV-LAX has to take a similar route I'm assuming. And they fly the 772 ER on this route. Any idea as to why they didn't require any rerouting?
seabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7308 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 15296 times:
Quoting turjo101 (Thread starter): Now I know the volcanic ash is forcing them to take a more southerly route, but the 77L at least shouldn't have any problems flying a few more hours directly to LAX should it? I mean LY flew their routine TLV-LAX flight with their 772 with only 70 mins delay. So any idea as to why Toronto is so fortunate to see 3 EK birds today?
DXB is quite a bit further away than TLV, and it uses more northerly routes, so avoiding the ash cloud does more damage.
My rough estimates playing with GC are that EK's flights to LAX and SFO are over 8300 and 7900 nm respectively today, and both flying in areas where the winds would be harmful. It's easy to see how a high-density 77L could need a fuel stop on flights like that.
So the LY5 route which was operated took less of a detour to go south and can almost be called a pretty standard Europe-US routing that goes via Eastern Canada.
But the Emirates route which would normally go much further north and comes down via Western Canada sometimes abeam Vancouver and down the West Coast, is hurt much more by the southern detour which ends up being over 1000nm extra flying compared to El Al.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Thanks LAXintl...helpful links and it seems pretty straight forward now. I had underestimated the distance between DXB-LAX and assumed that the 77L with its 9300 nmi maximum range would be able to handle any change in routing. Now its clear that with the added 1000 nmi+ change, they'd have to make a fuel stop.
What's great is both the 777s and the scheduled 388 (EK241) will be arriving within a couple of hours of each other.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 29459 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 14143 times:
Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 7): Why would they stop at YYZ though. I understand they fly there already and all, but airport fees at YYZ are out of this world. Seems to me EK can gets its jet-A for cheaper somewhere else.
It's easier to stop where you already have ground handling contracts in place rather than stopping somewhere where it all has to be done from scratch.
Fly2YYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 1071 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 13431 times:
I took the DXB-LAX flight on the 15th of April, and we took such a northerly route, overpassing moscow and the north pole and northern canada.. I guess the ash has spread to western russia area where the flight now has to make a stop in YYZ... yikes!
But I guess its kinda weird.. since I took this flight to LA for a few days there, but i'm now back in YYZ.... lol..
madviking From Canada, joined Jul 2003, 204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 12389 times:
All the 380 sked flights operated normally throughout airspace closure limitations. The 380 usually takes a southerly track, and with the European closures ventured even further south than normal to stay away for the effected area.
The LAX and SFO flights have been arriving daily from Saturday. Though EK's web site states "rerouted to YYZ," these were pre-plannded stops prior to leaving Dubai. Due to the southerly track flown, a fuel stop is required for westbound flights only.
Why YYZ? As Viscount724 stated, everything is established at an online station versus stopping at an offline city. And do you really think EK is concerned about costs?
An Act of God may have allowed EK those extra frequiencies they so badly desire, but even God won't allow them to poach any additional revenue traffic!