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2 EK Flights Redirected To YYZ!  
User currently offlineturjo101 From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 91 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 14629 times:

After more than 10 years of frequenting airliners.net this is my very first post...So firstly hi everyone!!!

Nothing serious... might have even been routine for the last few days; but as I was browsing AirNav Live, I noticed that EK 215 (DXB-LAX) operated with 77L and EK 225 (DXB-SFO) operated with 77W are redirected to YYZ. Their website says they were rerouted in flight. They will have 200 and 271 minutes delay respectively to reach their original destination.

Now I know the volcanic ash is forcing them to take a more southerly route, but the 77L at least shouldn't have any problems flying a few more hours directly to LAX should it? I mean LY flew their routine TLV-LAX flight with their 772 with only 70 mins delay. So any idea as to why Toronto is so fortunate to see 3 EK birds today?

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15742 posts, RR: 27
Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 14594 times:

Quoting turjo101 (Thread starter):
Now I know the volcanic ash is forcing them to take a more southerly route, but the 77L at least shouldn't have any problems flying a few more hours directly to LAX should it?

Maybe, I don't have time to check out the maps, but do keep in mind that they will have to comply with ETOPS rules so they will have to carry significantly more fuel than what would be necessary just to complete the flight.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25369 posts, RR: 49
Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 14529 times:

At least on the LAX flight, the closure of airspace precluded the utilization of the normal near polar flight paths, so instead they are operating with planned fuel stop in YYZ.

The same occurred Saturday and Sunday, and is again tentatively planned for Tuesday also.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineturjo101 From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 91 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 14362 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
At least on the LAX flight, the closure of airspace precluded the utilization of the normal near polar flight paths, so instead they are operating with planned fuel stop in YYZ.

LY 05 from TLV-LAX has to take a similar route I'm assuming. And they fly the 772 ER on this route. Any idea as to why they didn't require any rerouting?


User currently onlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5467 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 14314 times:

Quoting turjo101 (Thread starter):
Now I know the volcanic ash is forcing them to take a more southerly route, but the 77L at least shouldn't have any problems flying a few more hours directly to LAX should it? I mean LY flew their routine TLV-LAX flight with their 772 with only 70 mins delay. So any idea as to why Toronto is so fortunate to see 3 EK birds today?
DXB is quite a bit further away than TLV, and it uses more northerly routes, so avoiding the ash cloud does more damage.

My rough estimates playing with GC are that EK's flights to LAX and SFO are over 8300 and 7900 nm respectively today, and both flying in areas where the winds would be harmful. It's easy to see how a high-density 77L could need a fuel stop on flights like that.

[Edited 2010-04-19 11:24:19]

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25369 posts, RR: 49
Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 14080 times:

Dubai is further east which makes the great circle route almost right over the pole.

Take a look at great circle mapper TLV-LAX
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=tlv-lax&MS=wls&DU=mi

DXB-LAX
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=dxb-lax&DU=mi

So the LY5 route which was operated took less of a detour to go south and can almost be called a pretty standard Europe-US routing that goes via Eastern Canada.
But the Emirates route which would normally go much further north and comes down via Western Canada sometimes abeam Vancouver and down the West Coast, is hurt much more by the southern detour which ends up being over 1000nm extra flying compared to El Al.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineturjo101 From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 91 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 13878 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):

Thanks LAXintl...helpful links and it seems pretty straight forward now. I had underestimated the distance between DXB-LAX and assumed that the 77L with its 9300 nmi maximum range would be able to handle any change in routing. Now its clear that with the added 1000 nmi+ change, they'd have to make a fuel stop.

What's great is both the 777s and the scheduled 388 (EK241) will be arriving within a couple of hours of each other.


User currently offlinethenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2490 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 13660 times:

Why would they stop at YYZ though. I understand they fly there already and all, but airport fees at YYZ are out of this world. Seems to me EK can gets its jet-A for cheaper somewhere else.

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25311 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 13161 times:

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 7):
Why would they stop at YYZ though. I understand they fly there already and all, but airport fees at YYZ are out of this world. Seems to me EK can gets its jet-A for cheaper somewhere else.

It's easier to stop where you already have ground handling contracts in place rather than stopping somewhere where it all has to be done from scratch.


User currently offlineairceo From Canada, joined Feb 2010, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 12773 times:

So EK now you have you answer; it will take an act of god for you to get more frequencies into YYZ  

@airceo



blogger at airceo | reach me: @airceo or fly@airceo.com
User currently offlineabrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5090 posts, RR: 55
Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days ago) and read 12707 times:

Quoting airceo (Reply 9):
So EK now you have you answer; it will take an act of god for you to get more frequencies into YYZ

@airceo

= Jaja ... I was going to respond with the same vein  .

Saludos,
A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offlineFly2YYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 1044 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days ago) and read 12449 times:

I took the DXB-LAX flight on the 15th of April, and we took such a northerly route, overpassing moscow and the north pole and northern canada.. I guess the ash has spread to western russia area where the flight now has to make a stop in YYZ... yikes!

But I guess its kinda weird.. since I took this flight to LA for a few days there, but i'm now back in YYZ.... lol..


User currently offlinefly_yhm From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 1681 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12238 times:

I like your thinking thenoflyzone Too bad they didn't make the fuel stop at YHM, that would have been awesome. Oh well I still have to drive to YYZ to see 777s.


Where will you spend eternity? He,s more real then you think!!!!!
User currently offlinegr8circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3106 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12155 times:

I saw the EK A380 at YYZ yesterday.....doesn't the normal routing of the A380 from DXB-YYZ take it bang over the restricted area? What sort of a route did it take to reach YYZ?

User currently offlinemadviking From Canada, joined Jul 2003, 194 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11407 times:

All the 380 sked flights operated normally throughout airspace closure limitations. The 380 usually takes a southerly track, and with the European closures ventured even further south than normal to stay away for the effected area.

The LAX and SFO flights have been arriving daily from Saturday. Though EK's web site states "rerouted to YYZ," these were pre-plannded stops prior to leaving Dubai. Due to the southerly track flown, a fuel stop is required for westbound flights only.

Why YYZ? As Viscount724 stated, everything is established at an online station versus stopping at an offline city. And do you really think EK is concerned about costs?

An Act of God may have allowed EK those extra frequiencies they so badly desire, but even God won't allow them to poach any additional revenue traffic!


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