Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Avianca-TACA Joint Regional Aircraft Order  
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9847 posts, RR: 11
Posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8071 times:

I couldn't find anything on this topic so moderators please feel free to delete this if it already is being discussed.

The Avianca-TACA group has announced it will place a joint order to replace their current regional fleet of F50, F100, ATR42 and possibly their ERJ190 fleet by 2012. Under consideration are the MRJ, CSeries, ERJ and SSJ. What I find odd is that the article mentioned Avianca wants to replace their regional fleet with a new aircraft type by 2012 but to my knowledge the MRJ and the CSeries won't be available by that time, at least not for delivery. What I also find interesting is that Mr. Villegas also says that TACA might start flights to Europe from Central America using newly built A330's that are scheduled to be delivered to Avianca next year. These aircraft will than be transferred to TACA. Some F100 routes will be up gauged to the A319 while others might be down gauged, but this I expected already

The article is in below link:


http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ca-eyes-new-regional-aircraft.html


The A330 would have looked better in the old TACA livery in my opinion but the new livery won't look that bad I think. They just need to bring back those golden parrots.

Any thougts on this article?

A388

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25512 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8066 times:

Well the A330 idea does not surprise me.
As I had previously posted TA has done quite a bit of analysis about European flying with a potential small A330 fleet but various factors always stood in the way. The new AV relationship could allow TA to open a new world of flying at much reduced commercial and operational risk.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9847 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8012 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Well the A330 idea does not surprise me.
As I had previously posted TA has done quite a bit of analysis about European flying with a potential small A330 fleet but various factors always stood in the way. The new AV relationship could allow TA to open a new world of flying at much reduced commercial and operational risk.

Yes, I totally agree with you. If TA would go for Europe I also saw them going for the A330 as it is mos logical aircraft for them. Now that they have joined forces with AV, it makes operating the aircraft even more attractive.

A388


User currently offlinerealsim From Spain, joined Apr 2010, 646 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8005 times:

With AV serving MAD from 3 Colombian cities, I expect them to copy the same model for their new sister airline TA, and launch flights from SAL and maybe SJO to MAD, to compete directly with current IB non-stop link.

Regarding the regional aircraft order, as they want to replace their current F100 in a quite short term, I wouldn't be surprised if they order the E195 or more E190. For the F50 and AT42 replacement, I'd expect an ATR order (maybe a mix of AT72/AT42), as they already have them in TACA Regional for some time now.


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9847 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7966 times:

Quoting realsim (Reply 3):
With AV serving MAD from 3 Colombian cities, I expect them to copy the same model for their new sister airline TA, and launch flights from SAL and maybe SJO to MAD, to compete directly with current IB non-stop link.

Agreed, now finally there will be competition on the Central America to Europe market from a Latin American airline. Those brandnew A330's will serve those routes well in my opinion.

Quoting realsim (Reply 3):
For the F50 and AT42 replacement, I'd expect an ATR order (maybe a mix of AT72/AT42), as they already have them in TACA Regional for some time now.

Yes, the only turboprop replacement at the momen in fact only is the ATR Next Generation model unless they want to go bigger and go for the Q400 which I highly doubt.

Regarding the regional jets, I do remember an article in flightglobal.com about AV looking at the MRJ as a possible F100 replacement. This was before the TACA merger as far as I know so now that they also have the ERJ190 in their combined fleet, the ERJ might have a good shot at it as well. Embraer might offer them a good deal to keep them as a customer. Interesting times ahead...

A388


User currently onlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4514 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7891 times:

Quoting A388 (Thread starter):
The Avianca-TACA group has announced it will place a joint order to replace their current regional fleet of F50, F100, ATR42

Since the last year, TACA REGIONAL has replaced their Short 360s for second-handed ATR-42s.




.

Quoting realsim (Reply 3):
TA, and launch flights from SAL and maybe SJO to MAD, to compete directly with current IB non-stop link.

IB MAD-SJO-MAD is operating in a daily basis for the time being.
If TA would face this pattern, their possible flights out of SJO should be scheduled daily, but I'm not sure if the demand supports these dual operations.
TA is actually loading IB SJO-MAD by means of code-share cooperation in selected flights originated within Central America.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2561 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7810 times:

Quoting A388 (Thread starter):
The Avianca-TACA group has announced it will place a joint order to replace their current regional fleet of F50, F100, ATR42 and possibly their ERJ190 fleet by 2012. Under consideration are the MRJ, CSeries, ERJ and SSJ.

Thank you very much for this news.
As you say, given that the MRJ and CSeries are not going to be ready by 2012, it is unlikely that these types will be chosen to start with. Or maybe some ERJs, and also CSeries for later, or some such combination.

I agree that ATR-42-600 and perhaps -72 would replace the F50s with AV and older ATRS currently with TA.

I wonder if the F100s are giving AV trouble, as they had said before that they would not need to replace them before 2014, and now there seems to be much more of a hurry.

Getting (more) ERJs would allow growth in Brazil, and better utilisation of aircraft.


User currently offlinedanimarroquin From Colombia, joined Jan 2005, 449 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7780 times:

well , for what I know is that AV would passing their A330's to AV Brazil and TA , after their 787's and A350 start to arrive . meaning that TA A330 wouldn't be brand new , just the same ones that AV is currently using . " make sense " .

For AV definitely the ERJ 190 and 170 is a great option to replace the F100 , which they are starting to get old ! For the F50 , definitely would go for the Q400 , since is a bigger and faster plane . no need to think of Manizales anymore , since the coffee airport will be open next year !


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9847 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7731 times:

Quoting danimarroquin (Reply 7):
well , for what I know is that AV would passing their A330's to AV Brazil and TA , after their 787's and A350 start to arrive . meaning that TA A330 wouldn't be brand new , just the same ones that AV is currently using .

The article qoutes Mr. Villegas: "Villegas reveals that TACA may launch services from Central America to Europe next year. If this happens, the two additional Airbus A330s that Avianca is slated to receive in 2011 will be handed to TACA."

In any case it looks like TA will be getting the A330, in both instances those A330's are relatively new with a good in-flight entertainment system as far as I know.

A388


User currently offlinedanimarroquin From Colombia, joined Jan 2005, 449 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7407 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 8):
The article qoutes Mr. Villegas: "Villegas reveals that TACA may launch services from Central America to Europe next year. If this happens, the two additional Airbus A330s that Avianca is slated to receive in 2011 will be handed to TACA."

this means that AV will be have a big wide body planes shortage , since the 787s are still not available by next year . who knows when AV's 787 would arrived , and what is Boeing's schedule for AV . I just don't really see how AV will reach FRA like they said they would , and with 1 767-300 2 767-200 and 5 330s I just don't really see AV reaching for new int'l destinations like they said so . Maybe the best would to get the Aerogal 767 back , and do a short lease of some A330s .
 


User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4027 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7375 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting A388 (Reply 8):
The article qoutes Mr. Villegas: "Villegas reveals that TACA may launch services from Central America to Europe next year. If this happens, the two additional Airbus A330s that Avianca is slated to receive in 2011 will be handed to TACA."

I don't see AV handing these two 332s that are yet to be delivered, to TA unless AV's widebody fleet is adequate for the routes they need to cover, including the proposed new routes to Europe.

The E90 sounds like a good fit for AV and there are avilable now whereas the next generation regional a/c won't be until later than 2013.


User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2561 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7265 times:

Quoting danimarroquin (Reply 9):
I just don't really see how AV will reach FRA like they said they would , and with 1 767-300 2 767-200 and 5 330s I just don't really see AV reaching for new int'l destinations like they said so . Maybe the best would to get the Aerogal 767 back , and do a short lease of some A330s .
Quoting laca773 (Reply 10):
I don't see AV handing these two 332s that are yet to be delivered, to TA unless AV's widebody fleet is adequate for the routes they need to cover, including the proposed new routes to Europe.

In an article in a colombian business newspaper, the decision to divert the 2 A330s due next year from AV to TA is confirmed.
http://www.portafolio.com.co/economi...ventas-por-3000-millones_7634187-3

The routes to Europe? Well, that would be FRA, but with LH poised to start BOG at the end of the year, then it's not necessary. Also, increased offer to MAD has been aggressive in the last few years as demand seemed insatiable, but it load factors have been far from stellar some months.
So I can totally believe that the capacity would be better placed in Central America. Also, in Ecuador, where AeroGal have said they want to start flights to MAD. They do have a 767, and perhaps they can have an additional widebody.

[Edited 2010-04-21 01:03:14]

User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4027 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7256 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 11):
for the routes they need to cover, including the proposed new routes to Europe.

In an article in a colombian business newspaper, the decision to divert the 2 A330s due next year from AV to TA are a confirmed.
http://www.portafolio.com.co/economi...ventas-por-3000-millones_7634187-3

The routes to Europe? Well, that would be FRA, but with LH poised to start BOG at the end of the year, then it's not necessary. Also, increased offer to MAD has been aggressive in the last few years as demand seemed insatiable, but it load factors have been far from stellar some months.
So I can totally believe that the capacity would be better placed in Central America. Also, in Ecuador, where AeroGal have said they want to start flights to MAD. They do have a 767, and perhaps they can have an additional widebody.

Thanks, Summa767 for the information. Will we see TA commence service from SAL-MAD or GUA-MAD with these 330s?

Is there any chance we'll see AV lease a couple more 762/763s until they begin to receive their 787s?


User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4027 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7245 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

My apologies for posting in error.

[Edited 2010-04-21 01:14:54]

User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2561 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 7210 times:

Quoting laca773 (Reply 12):
Will we see TA commence service from SAL-MAD or GUA-MAD with these 330s?

I guess we will, in the second half of 2011..

Quoting laca773 (Reply 12):

Is there any chance we'll see AV lease a couple more 762/763s until they begin to receive their 787s?

I don't think so.
AV has been getting rid of its 767s, having returned some of them before originally planned. Now it only has 3 active ones, which I guess they would keep until the are replaced by 787s.

It might be with the 787s that we might see additional capacity and perhaps new routes. I hope we see TA widebodies from LIM too. If not A330s, then 787s.


User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4027 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 7121 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 14):
don't think so.
AV has been getting rid of its 767s, having returned some of them before originally planned. Now it only has 3 active ones, which I guess they would keep until the are replaced by 787s.

Thanks for the clarification. I had a feeling they wouldn't be looking for any to lease to bridge them over until they receive their first few 787s. What will they fly BOG-LAX-BOG with eventually when the 762s are gone?


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9847 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7021 times:

Quoting laca773 (Reply 12):
Thanks, Summa767 for the information. Will we see TA commence service from SAL-MAD or GUA-MAD with these 330s?

Finally you believe what was already quoted from the article link I posted before.....

A388


User currently offlineairliner777 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6896 times:

Any plans on upgrading TAMPA Cargo's fleet anytime soon?

User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9847 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6887 times:

Quoting airliner777 (Reply 17):
Any plans on upgrading TAMPA Cargo's fleet anytime soon?

Good question, I thought that at least one or two 767F's would have been painted in the AV Cargo livery by now but still nothing.

A388


User currently offlinedanimarroquin From Colombia, joined Jan 2005, 449 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6833 times:

BIG Q , when would AV's 787s would arrived ? What is Boeing schedule for AV ?

Maybe AV would have a short lease of some A330s from the market !

[Edited 2010-04-21 07:53:23]

User currently offlineSPIM2EDDN From Germany, joined Mar 2008, 107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6718 times:

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 14):
I hope we see TA widebodies from LIM too. If not A330s, then 787s

I think LIM-MIA and LIM-MAD have a good chance to work connecting TA's traffic from LPB, VVI, POA, ASU just to name some. We have to admit it wouldn't be easy against AA, LA and IB on these routes but the demand is definitely there.


User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2561 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6694 times:

Quoting danimarroquin (Reply 19):
Maybe AV would have a short lease of some A330s from the market !

AV ordered a total of 10 A330s. It only has 5 of those at the moment. 2 arriving next year (now going to TA) make 7. There are other 3 it could have if it wanted them. But it seems to me that they do not.

We will probably see little growth by AV in te next couple of years. That will be done at Taca and Aerogal.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 15):
I had a feeling they wouldn't be looking for any to lease to bridge them over until they receive their first few 787s. What will they fly BOG-LAX-BOG with eventually when the 762s are gone?

Good question. Perhaps the 787s will. Or A320s via SAL o A319s via SJO, with Tampa doing the cargo..


User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6597 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6642 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting laca773 (Reply 12):
Will we see TA commence service from SAL-MAD or GUA-MAD with these 330s?

Why is MAD the prize? Isnt IB successful because of connections to Europe? WHo could AV/TA codeshare out of MAD?



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4027 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6568 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting mt99 (Reply 22):
Why is MAD the prize? Isnt IB successful because of connections to Europe? WHo could AV/TA codeshare out of MAD?

That is a very good point.
If MAD can not handle more than one carrier in this market, it would probably be best for TA to open GUA/SAL-FRA since that's a very large LH Star Alliance Hub.


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9847 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6547 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 22):
Why is MAD the prize? Isnt IB successful because of connections to Europe? WHo could AV/TA codeshare out of MAD?

I think MAD is the price as it probably also has O&D traffic. I have a hard time believing IB filling their flights with connecting traffic only. Remember there are historical ties between Latin America and Spain as well. I also do remember reading in another thread that AV has a codeshare with IB as well, which surprised me too.

A388


25 av757 : No A330´s for Avianca Brazil (Oceanair). No intentions on getting more B767´s and the last 3 remaining are programed to be phased out by the end of
26 SJOtoLIR : This pattern doesn´t fit their objectives consisting in the acquisition of brand new fleet entirely. . Very interesting point ! I've always thought
27 laca773 : Is AV happy with their A332s? Are they too restricted to fly out of BOG for them to be an efficent a/c?
28 jfk777 : With the need for 767 and A330 to GRU, EZE, SCL, JFK, LAX, MIA, MAD, Barcelona and whatever new routes comes along, how is AV going to serve all this
29 EddieDude : Well, I guess that if need be, they will send A319s to GRU, EZE, SCL and MIA some days of the week. But yeah, it'd be great to see all those destinat
30 A388 : I find it hard that AV would order the A330 only to use it for such a short time, dump it in favour of a totally different aircraft type (the 787). C
31 laca773 : It doesn't make any sense to me either. If this is the case as reported here, you'd think they would have gotten a few new build 762/763s from Boeing
32 EddieDude : When will the A350XWB's will be -in theory- delivered to AV? Maybe the 787s are to replace the 767s and the A350XWBs are to replace the A330s. And ma
33 av757 : The B762/3 pax load has outgrown the actual capacity and is allready too small for the European routes and some in the Americas. The A330 for now is t
34 tavong : No A330 Hope that they come fast, the A332 looks great but an 787 should be awesome in AV Colors. Gus SKBO
35 jfk777 : What is the configuration, 30 J/ 244 Y ?
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Avianca / Taca Close To Alliance Decision posted Sun Mar 21 2010 08:59:41 by RICARIZA
DL/NW Merger: Regional Aircraft Repaints posted Sat Jan 23 2010 11:57:06 by JBAirwaysFan
The Strange And Uncommon Regional Aircraft Thread posted Sat Dec 26 2009 20:34:51 by Airport
QR To Place Large Aircraft Order In June posted Tue Mar 31 2009 13:38:59 by Stitch
First Class And Large Regional Aircraft posted Wed Feb 18 2009 16:58:14 by Cubsrule
Casa C295 As Regional Aircraft? posted Tue Jan 6 2009 23:09:28 by Columba
Etihad's Aircraft Order Largest Ever In History? posted Mon Jul 14 2008 10:47:36 by Fly2CHC
EK May Announce 100 Aircraft Order At Dubai posted Wed Nov 7 2007 06:33:39 by EI321
Air India Eyes Big Aircraft Order By Mid-2008 posted Thu Oct 18 2007 05:25:39 by Columba
New Unidentified Orders Lift Boeing Aircraft Order posted Tue Jul 24 2007 14:07:26 by WorldFlight