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RE: 3rd FA Jumpseat On Mesaba CRJ900  
User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2174 posts, RR: 1
Posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 8094 times:
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I am now a very happy FA working on the great B737 Classic and B737NG aircraft, but my favourite aircraft is still the CRJ900... on the 737 there are more jumpseats than there are working crew so that we can all sit down together and chat, drink coffee, eat lunch etc which contributes to a good work environment and a happy crew.

Apparently, Mesaba's CRJ900 came with some nice crew features like a 3rd jumpseat in the forward galley, and some of the galley structure is mounted sideways, like on many MD80s. Are these features the result of union demands (better work conditions) and will other DL Connection carriers implement this too, in order to streamline the DL Conn CRJ900 fleet which now stands at 100+ aircraft? I see that many CR9s fly long sectors of 3-4 hours and assume that FAs enjoy being able to sit down together and have a coffee between service runs?

Are these features copyright to Mesaba? If not, I'm surprised that SAS did not order this for their CR9s as they have always been very proactive when it comes to improving work conditions for cabin crew...

Bonus question: are baggage issues less of a hassle now on the CRJ900NG with bigger overhead bins?

Hoping for an answer or two  

Fly happy, safe and prosperous

Ivan


Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7549 posts, RR: 28
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7855 times:

Quoting CRJ900 (Thread starter):
Are these features the result of union demands (better work conditions) and will other DL Connection carriers implement this too, in order to streamline the DL Conn CRJ900 fleet which now stands at 100+ aircraft? I see that many CR9s fly long sectors of 3-4 hours and assume that FAs enjoy being able to sit down together and have a coffee between service runs?

The extra jumpseat is not a union demand. It was a Bombardier feature, and Mesaba (XJ) CR9s were some of the first to sport the NG features.

They won't be standardized because the CR9s are flown by different regional operators.

Quoting CRJ900 (Thread starter):
Are these features copyright to Mesaba? If not, I'm surprised that SAS did not order this for their CR9s as they have always been very proactive when it comes to improving work conditions for cabin crew...

It is not copyright whatsoever.

Quoting CRJ900 (Thread starter):
Bonus question: are baggage issues less of a hassle now on the CRJ900NG with bigger overhead bins?

Even with the larger bins, the CR9s do not fit rollerboards. Like the smaller CRJ variants, the utilize planeside claim on the CR9s. It works fine for passengers as you don't have to deal with fighting for overhead bin space but it can be a hassle for the ramp with they have to load 70 planeside bags.


User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2403 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days ago) and read 7779 times:

Additional jumpseats are also important to accommodate commuters and deadhead F/As without displacing revenue customers. In an era of 85%+ load factors, flights are going out full more than ever, and having extra jumpseats in the cabin ensures these employees can get where they need to go even during extremely busy periods.

User currently offlineSWA TPA From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1559 posts, RR: 34
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7607 times:

As a CRJ flight attendant I can tell you not all DL -900's have a 3rd jump seat. I wish ours did, I have spent many an hour sitting on a hard metal liquor kit in the front galley on the floor (this is a common thing for us to do) while the lead FA sits in the front jump seat. I have always wondered about this from a safety stand point as you cannot sit in the rear jump seat in flight since it pulls out across the back lav. Once service is over, most of the time the 2 FA's are going to be up front in the galley since we have no where else to go, if the flight is full and we hit sudden severe turbulence only one of us is going to be able to sit down. What is the 2nd FA supposed to do? Hang on for dear life and pray? I have on occasion had to fling myself into a 1st class seat but that is not always an option since a lot of the times the flights are 100% full.

SWA TPA



I believe I can fly.....
User currently offlineazjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3905 posts, RR: 28
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7517 times:

The 3rd jumpseat is a moot point. The only time it's ever used is during FA training and the company for some reason is holding on tight to the access. It is not allowed for nonrev travel and it certainly isn't open to OAL employees.

User currently offlineburnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7536 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7515 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 1):
The extra jumpseat is not a union demand. It was a Bombardier feature, and Mesaba (XJ) CR9s were some of the first to sport the NG features.

Just a minor note, they were the first. XJ's CR9's were the first NG's.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2403 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7471 times:

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 4):
the company for some reason is holding on tight to the access. It is not allowed for nonrev travel

That's pretty strange. I don't see any compelling reason to disallow use of that seat for on duty employee travel/CMR if it is going to remain empty anyway.


User currently offlinePI4EVER From United States of America, joined May 2009, 664 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7380 times:
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SWA TPA -
I am not sure that "hard metal liquor kit" is any worse than the Y seats on Mesa's CR9's....at least those ugly things still flying in HP fabric and cement cushions for USExpress. Your point is well taken however about safety and accessibility of a seat. Its too easy to get banged up a bit routinely up and about in the plane, much less when things get really bouncy. I've spent a moment or two on the galley floor with my legs braced up against the bins.....as we winged our way through the WVa mountains in winter, or thunderstorm activity in FL during July.
I think I still have that bruise on my left leg after all these years........
Safe Flying,
Thomas



watch what you want. you may get it.
User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7308 times:

Quoting SWA TPA (Reply 3):
Once service is over, most of the time the 2 FA's are going to be up front in the galley since we have no where else to go, if the flight is full and we hit sudden severe turbulence only one of us is going to be able to sit down. What is the 2nd FA supposed to do? Hang on for dear life and pray?

Wow training is getting bad! If you were to hit turbulence you should go back to your jumpseat. Having pax needing to use the lav is not a problem when the seatbelt sign is on.

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 4):
The 3rd jumpseat is a moot point. The only time it's ever used is during FA training and the company for some reason is holding on tight to the access. It is not allowed for nonrev travel and it certainly isn't open to OAL employees.

FA's cannot use a cabin jumpseat on DL if they are not working?
This is not the case at most airlines. Most airlines will allow FA's or Pilots to use cabin jumpseats for personal travel. In fact when I was at CO we would list for the jumpseat the exact same way we would list for a cabin non-rev seat. The jumpseats were always given by seniority first to FA's then to Pilots.



/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlinenws2002 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 888 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7305 times:

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 8):
In fact when I was at CO we would list for the jumpseat the exact same way we would list for a cabin non-rev seat. The jumpseats were always given by seniority first to FA's then to Pilots.

Pilots at CO do not sit in the FA jumpseats, even during non-rev travel. It's a contractual thing, we don't want them in cabin jumpseats until they figure out how to let us into the flight deck jumpseats.


User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2174 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7259 times:
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Thanks for great replies so far, keep 'em coming - looks like this was interesting to quite a few people  

SWA TPA: lucky you for being a CRJ900 FA, I'm so jealous. Is a "liquor kit" same size as an ATLAS standard carrier? We sit on ATLAS boxes at times if we are more FAs than jumpseats (doesn't happen often, tho)

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 1):
Even with the larger bins, the CR9s do not fit rollerboards.

Not even the 16" wide by 10" thick rollaboards? I think one of my work suitcases is that size. Are cargo holds big enough for all bags on a full flight to ie STX?



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7207 times:

Quoting nws2002 (Reply 9):
Pilots at CO do not sit in the FA jumpseats, even during non-rev travel. It's a contractual thing, we don't want them in cabin jumpseats until they figure out how to let us into the flight deck jumpseats.

Thanks for clearing that up. When I was at CO Pilots were allowed to use the JS only after all FA's were cleared. I know back then there was talk of taking it away but I never thought that it would actually happen.
I know that some pilots feel like FA's should not get to sit up front but I still feel that its not really up to the pilots. I think if the government restrictions were lifted on the flight deck management would allow for FA's to ride up front and the pilots who tried to ignore this management decision would be dealt with. I personally cannot understand why the restrictions that keep FA's from the flight deck seat are still in place. They really serve no purpose when it comes to safety.



/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlineKingAir200 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1611 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7198 times:

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 8):
FA's cannot use a cabin jumpseat on DL if they are not working?

It depends on the operating carrier. DL flight attendants and pilots can ride in DL mainline cabin jumpseats, but do not have a cabin jumpseat agreement with XJ, so they can't ride in XJ cabin jumpseats.



Hey Swifty
User currently offlinem11stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7052 times:

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 11):
I personally cannot understand why the restrictions that keep FA's from the flight deck seat are still in place. They really serve no purpose when it comes to safety.

Its not like its a security risk since F/As are in and out of the flight deck all the time when they are part of the working crew.



My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
User currently offlinestratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1651 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6997 times:

Quoting nws2002 (Reply 9):
Pilots at CO do not sit in the FA jumpseats, even during non-rev travel. It's a contractual thing, we don't want them in cabin jumpseats until they figure out how to let us into the flight deck jumpseats.

I agree with this 100 %..F/A's commute just like pilots do if regulations prohibit F/A's from riding cockpit jumpseats then pilots do not need to be riding F/A jumpseats. I know a few airlines already do this but F/A's need to be able to go to any airline and be able to access F/A jumpseats just as pilots do.



NWA THE TRUE EVIL EMPIRE
User currently offlinenws2002 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 888 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6992 times:

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 11):
Thanks for clearing that up. When I was at CO Pilots were allowed to use the JS only after all FA's were cleared. I know back then there was talk of taking it away but I never thought that it would actually happen.

I honestly think it's a petty thing. If all the FAs are cleared first I have no problems with allowing a pilot to sit in an extra cabin JS.


User currently offlinephllax From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 436 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6951 times:

I thought the extra JS on some of Mesa's 200's and 900's is because they came from Impulse Airways in Australia, and their civil aviation authority has a different set of pax/flight attendent ratios than the FAA.

User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6910 times:

Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 12):
It depends on the operating carrier. DL flight attendants and pilots can ride in DL mainline cabin jumpseats, but do not have a cabin jumpseat agreement with XJ, so they can't ride in XJ cabin jumpseats.

That makes sense, it just sounded like they are not allowed to do it at all.

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 13):
Its not like its a security risk since F/As are in and out of the flight deck all the time when they are part of the working crew.

Exactly! The FA is sitting up there at the controls while the pilot is in back trying to get a number from the girl in 13B so what exactly is the safety concern when it comes to the FA ridding up front to get to work?



/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlineSWA TPA From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1559 posts, RR: 34
Reply 18, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6859 times:

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 8):
Wow training is getting bad! If you were to hit turbulence you should go back to your jumpseat. Having pax needing to use the lav is not a problem when the seatbelt sign is on.


UAL747DEN, I have hit sudden turbulence before where walking back 19 rows and than standing there trying to pull out and latch a jump seat into the wall is simply not going to work. Also what if there is a sudden cabin depressurization at 35,000 feet and the plane has to rapidly descend down below 10,000? Again, one cannot walk to the rear of the cabin at that point.  
Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 10):
SWA TPA: lucky you for being a CRJ900 FA, I'm so jealous. Is a "liquor kit" same size as an ATLAS standard carrier? We sit on ATLAS boxes at times if we are more FAs than jumpseats (doesn't happen often, tho)

You got it! Our liquor kit is the same thing as a standard ATLAS carrier.

SWA TPA



I believe I can fly.....
User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3288 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6842 times:

Quoting phllax (Reply 16):
I thought the extra JS on some of Mesa's 200's and 900's is because they came from Impulse Airways in Australia, and their civil aviation authority has a different set of pax/flight attendent ratios than the FAA.

Mesa and Mesaba are two different airlines. Very different..... And Impulse flew 717's, not CRJ's.


User currently offlinestratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1651 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6794 times:

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 17):
Exactly! The FA is sitting up there at the controls while the pilot is in back trying to get a number from the girl in 13B so what exactly is the safety concern when it comes to the FA ridding up front to get to work?

Your not at the "controls" you are in the flight deck lets make that clear.



NWA THE TRUE EVIL EMPIRE
User currently offlinem11stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6746 times:

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 20):
Your not at the "controls" you are in the flight deck lets make that clear.

UAL747DEN wasn't implying that the F/A is flying the plane when one of the pilots is out. Hes implying that if an F/A wanted to take control of the plane they could.



My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
User currently offlineCRJ 900 From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 594 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6704 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 1):
Even with the larger bins, the CR9s do not fit rollerboards. Like the smaller CRJ variants, the utilize planeside claim on the CR9s. It works fine for passengers as you don't have to deal with fighting for overhead bin space but it can be a hassle for the ramp with they have to load 70 planeside bags.

AT Jazz, we can get rollerboards into the bins on the 705(900). To be exact we don't offer gate check on this aircraft, only on the 50 seater. Out of curiosity, any other CRJ900 operators out there have inseat video on demand or are we the only one?


User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6662 times:

Quoting SWA TPA (Reply 18):
UAL747DEN, I have hit sudden turbulence before where walking back 19 rows and than standing there trying to pull out and latch a jump seat into the wall is simply not going to work. Also what if there is a sudden cabin depressurization at 35,000 feet and the plane has to rapidly descend down below 10,000? Again, one cannot walk to the rear of the cabin at that point.  

Back in my FA days I had those times where you had to just find a seat with the pax for a few mins, I don't think it matters where the JS is when that happens, wherever you happen to be you are going to have to make a seat. As far as depressurization goes, you should know where there are extra masks, grab one!

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 20):
Your not at the "controls" you are in the flight deck lets make that clear.

Well I think that the reasoning behind not allowing FA's to ride JS is so that they cannot take control of the plane and run it into something. When a pilot leaves the flight deck and the FA comes in, they could do just as much damage right? Or even more because there would only be one person left to fight them off.

I never tried to say that the FA comes up and flies the plane if that is what you were thinking!



/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlinem11stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6560 times:

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 23):
Quoting SWA TPA (Reply 18):
UAL747DEN, I have hit sudden turbulence before where walking back 19 rows and than standing there trying to pull out and latch a jump seat into the wall is simply not going to work. Also what if there is a sudden cabin depressurization at 35,000 feet and the plane has to rapidly descend down below 10,000? Again, one cannot walk to the rear of the cabin at that point.

Back in my FA days I had those times where you had to just find a seat with the pax for a few mins, I don't think it matters where the JS is when that happens, wherever you happen to be you are going to have to make a seat. As far as depressurization goes, you should know where there are extra masks, grab one!

I'm pretty sure (you'd know for sure as you're an F/A  ) the normal procedure is for the F/As to take the closest seat in the event of a depressurization. If there isn't an empty seat nearby they can sit on the passengers lap. I would assume the same would be true for cases of severe turbulence.



My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
25 UAL747DEN : I haven't done the job for some time but I think we agree on what they should do! I can assure you I would find a mask as soon as that plane started
26 ditzyboy : Impulse Airlines never flew any CRJ variant (only 717s, 1900s, J41s in the early 90's). Ansett subsidiary, Kendell, had a dozen CR2s and was the only
27 CRJ200FAGuy : It's forbidden at most airlines, but that doesn't mean much. I was shown it on IOE. On the CRJ200, it's either sit on the bottled water box to eat lu
28 Post contains images CRJ900 : I remember putting my small rollaboard into the bin on the 705 without hassle, right next to it was the beautiful female pilot's rollaboard. Simply l
29 ditzyboy : I thought a Chinese airline had them? I remember reading something about it. There was a picture of the screen and part of the CR2 overhead bin. If I
30 FlightPlan06 : Does anybody have a picture of this 3rd jump seat? I would like to see the difference between the 2 galley Configs if any body have any pics.
31 Post contains images SWA TPA : Yes, we have oxygen masks above the FA jump seat. Thankfully we do not, commissary brings them right to our aircraft in certain cities if we deplete
32 Post contains images CRJ 900 : Ya i'd luv to see a pic as well. Am always interested to see how other operators have configured their aircraft. I for one wished Jazz had put a galle
33 Post contains images CRJ900 : They do, the galley unit has 3 half carts, a coffee maker, two ATLAS boxes. I think SAS has that one too... If your galleys were wired for ovens, you
34 ThePinnacleKid : Okay all the F/A's on here... here's the pilots side on the Flight Deck J/S vs Cabin J/S and why we can and should be allowed to sit in either... and
35 nws2002 : I understand your point, but why are airline executives allowed access to the flight deck JS? They are expected to keep quiet and stay out of the way
36 UAL747DEN : This answer doesn't work for me, what do you do when there is no one in that seat?
37 CRJ 900 : Cockpit jump seats are available in Canada(yes, even to FAs) oh ya and as long as we're not flying to/from the USA(how STUPID is that), Capt discretio
38 CBPhoto : Well, in fairness, I can't sit in the cockpit jumpseat going up to Canada, so its a lose lose situation. In regards to international jumpseating, I t
39 nws2002 : It's a contractual thing that pilots are not allowed to sit in cabin jumpseats at CO. Apparently we've offered to lift this restriction if they agree
40 ThePinnacleKid : We handle the situation as the situation dictates... that said, sometimes having no-one is better than someone that (without training/exposure) would
41 SNCntry32 : Side note, the Compass E175's have 2 extra fa jumpseats. A total of 4. Delta and Compass reached an agreement to allow all flight attendants to sit i
42 wncrew : Your logic might fit the situation at Pinnacle, but the same is NOT true at WN. Our pilots do not receive the same cabin safety/evac training as FA's
43 nws2002 : OMG! I'm not territorial about the galley or "my space", but if anyone ever touches the arming lever or girt bar on a door I'm responsible for, they
44 azjubilee : The 3rd jumpseat is now available to Mesaba FAs for nonrevenue travel. The company is working on reciprocal agreements for the future.
45 flightplan06 : Can someone take a picture of the 3rd jumpseat or tell me where it is on the plane please.....
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