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Air Koryo Post Korean Reunification?  
User currently offlinePillowTester From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 245 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 14882 times:

What might the plight of Air Koryo be should South Korea absorb the North? Would an attempt to privatize be made, similar to Interflug? If so, how would you propose the new company be run so as to avoid sharing Interflug's fate? Would Air Koryo services prove vital in the immediate aftermath of reunification to bring aid and transport to the North? How expansive are Air Koryo's domestic services anyway? Does Air Koryo conduct the management of ground facilities in a similar fashion to Aeroflot in the Soviet Union? Could Air Koryo survive as another major Korean carrier? Would Korean Air or Asiana even be interested in absorbing Air Koryo?

The possible hypotheticals here are quite interesting.


...said Dan jubilantly.
67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTeamAmerica From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 1761 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 14835 times:

Quoting PillowTester (Thread starter):
Could Air Koryo survive as another major Korean carrier?

No. Near-worthless assets, hostile crews...nothing worth saving here.

Quoting PillowTester (Thread starter):
Would Korean Air or Asiana even be interested in absorbing Air Koryo?

Hell, NO. See above.  



Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
User currently offlinejetsetter629 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 461 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 14776 times:

Quoting PillowTester (Thread starter):
What might the plight of Air Koryo be should South Korea absorb the North?

I can imagine this would be the least of their priorities...


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17823 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 14720 times:

Quoting PillowTester (Thread starter):
Could Air Koryo survive as another major Korean carrier?

Perhaps as a major Korean carrier exhibit in a museum. How many planes are actually in working condition? They certainly don't have a schedule reflective of their 20-aircraft fleet.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4060 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 14698 times:

You should ask Interflug for suggestions (the ex GDR state airline)....

User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12593 posts, RR: 34
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 14673 times:

Quoting PillowTester (Thread starter):
Interflug's fate?

Interesting question, but I think you have the answer here. Look at JS's fleet and look at the fleets of both (South) Korean carriers; JS won't last five minutes. That said, the South will want to help people who have specific trades; remember that although IF was wound up, many personnel of the East German air force found new careers with the Luftwaffe and Air Koryo is actually part of the North Korean Air Force (its Air Transport Regiment), so many of its crews might end up flying South Korean military aircraft.


User currently offlinePillowTester From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 14608 times:

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 4):
You should ask Interflug for suggestions (the ex GDR state airline)....

Sounds like you rushed to post a clever reply to the topic title without reading the topic itself. I mentioned both Interflug and Aeroflot as possible examples to draw from.



...said Dan jubilantly.
User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4060 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 14436 times:

Quoting PillowTester (Reply 6):
Sounds like you rushed to post a clever reply to the topic title without reading the topic itself. I mentioned both Interflug and Aeroflot as possible examples to draw from.

No, I did not (although I admit that the statement was a it cryptic). Interflug (the airline) was not privatized. You probably referred to some smallish subsidiaries (BSF) that survived Interflug the airline, but the airline as such went nowhere after re-unification. Part of its fleet (and crews) ended up with the transportation arm of the German Air Force.


User currently onlineHeeseokKoo From South Korea, joined Jan 2005, 666 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 14352 times:

I heard pilots of Air Koryo are awesome, mostly from military. I believe re-unification won't happen in near future, although such discussion is always welcome.

User currently offlineaf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2714 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 14288 times:

I don't think South Korea would absorb the North. In time North Korea will probably lean towards a more peaceful future, when that will be who knows, but when that time comes Air Koryo would probably buy used Airbus or Boeing aircraft (737, 757, 767 size aircraft) and introduce new routes.


It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently offlineDalavia From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 549 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 14237 times:

Reunification could follow the Chinese model of "one country, two systems" that was used for Hong Kong's and Macau's return to China. That model has been the focus of the (very infrequent) negotiations that have taken place between the DPRK and the ROK.

I certainly wouldn't assume an absorption of the North by the South any more than I would assume an absorbtion (invasion?) of the South by the North.

If the "one country, two systems" model is negotiated, then there will still be a place for Air Koryo, just as we see Cathay Pacific and Air Macau operating in addition to the Mainland Chinese carriers.

Hopefully those new Tu-204s will be flying for many years to come.


User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4060 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 14166 times:

I guess it would be more a German-style reunification with North Korea either going bancrupt or facing a revolution. Not much point in keeping the communist system in the north from the point of view of South Korea - whereas keeping Hongkong for China made some sense as the (business) people of Hongkong undoubtedly were not keen to come under a pure Communist rule.

User currently offlineYYCowboy From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 147 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 13974 times:

I have to admit, I find this airline fascinating. The flag carrier of a despot, paranoid nation. I can only imagine the eyes watching their every move. Whats to keep the flight crew's from walking away whilst in another country? I watched N.Korea's only athlete at Vancouver Winter Games (womens speed skating, and trounced by S.Korea btw) and wondered, How did she get to Canada and did they keep a bag over her head to keep from looking around and asking questions? I wonder if she got to stick around and enjoy the moment. My hunch, if N.Korea ever relaxed, or re unified, local Asian carriers would pounce and Air Koryo will be grounded. I would be suprised if they even had a buisness model.


Its hard to soar like an eagle when you're flying with turkeys
User currently offlineaviateur From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1360 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 13916 times:

Quoting PillowTester (Thread starter):
Would Korean Air or Asiana even be interested in absorbing Air Koryo?

You're kidding, right?


PS



Patrick Smith is an airline pilot, air travel columnist and author
User currently offlineJCS17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 13870 times:

I just hope my Air Koryo KimPoints will transfer to Korean Air's FF program. I didn't buy all those Bourgeoisie Class tickets just for my KimPoints to disappear.  


America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineMoltenRock From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 13854 times:

Most importantly which global air alliance would Air K join? I'm thinking it's a SkyTeam kinda airline.   

User currently offlineaviateur From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1360 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 13846 times:

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 15):
Most importantly which global air alliance would Air K join?

The "Alliance of Evil," obviously. Air Koryo, Syrianair, and Iran Air.

Maybe Sudan Airways also? Somali Airways? How about Cubana or LAB?


PS



Patrick Smith is an airline pilot, air travel columnist and author
User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4491 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 13728 times:

Quoting YYCowboy (Reply 12):
I have to admit, I find this airline fascinating. The flag carrier of a despot, paranoid nation. I can only imagine the eyes watching their every move. Whats to keep the flight crew's from walking away whilst in another country?

I'd say the employees of Air Koryo have a pretty good life by North Korean standards. That, added to the extensive personality cult of Dear Leader and all the propaganda they've had since birth, might be enough to convince them they were flying into the gaping maw of Hell itself while landing at PEK.

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 14):
I just hope my Air Koryo KimPoints will transfer to Korean Air's FF program. I didn't buy all those Bourgeoisie Class tickets just for my KimPoints to disappear.

I'm hearing they can be redeemed for extra Koryo Burgers and water from a well personally approved by Kim Jong-il...



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlineaquariusHKG From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2010, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 13623 times:

I'd say either they share the fate of Interflug or becomes the transport arm of the new Korean Air Force, or a state owned airline doing VIP transport like Rossiya in Russia

User currently offlineAeroflot001 From Argentina, joined Oct 2009, 412 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 13505 times:

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 17):
Whats to keep the flight crew's from walking away whilst in another country?

Ive read. I believe right here on airliners I read about how a government minder is standing right at the door to the aircraft in Beijing and I believe if the crew has to do any overnighting they will be accompanied by minders as well. Minders usually have a fairly good life in the DPRK and will take their job seriously. Not to mention that the families of the defectors will be arrested and possibly thrown in concentration camps. This pretty much guarantees that the crew will not defect.


User currently offlineDalavia From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 549 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 13357 times:

Quoting Aeroflot001 (Reply 19):
I read about how a government minder is standing right at the door to the aircraft in Beijing and I believe if the crew has to do any overnighting they will be accompanied by minders as well.

The Air Koryo flights to and from Beijing do not stay overnight. The turnaround time is a few hours and all the crew stay on the plane; they do not even enter the terminal building.

Check-in operations in Beijing are handled by Air China staff, not Air Koryo personnel.


User currently offlineMIAspotter From Spain, joined Nov 2001, 2852 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 13307 times:

Quoting aviateur (Reply 16):

The "Alliance of Evil," obviously. Air Koryo, Syrianair, and Iran Air.

Maybe Sudan Airways also? Somali Airways? How about Cubana or LAB?

Add ConViasa to that too.

In all seriousness tho. If North K and South K where to be reunified (big IF) I think AirKoryo will just become a smaller regional carrier serving a few routes inside Korea and neighbouring Asian Countries with second hand Boeing or Airbuses.

Or just dissappear altogether.

MIAspotter.



I think, therefore I don´t fly Ryanair.
User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 12742 times:

If the Korean Pennisula is peacefully reunited sometime in the future, I predict that Air Koryo will end up in liquidation, and KE or Asiana will establish a secondary hub in Pyongyang for domestic and regional flights.

Do any foreign carriers currently fly into Pyongyang? I recall reading that a Chinese airlines had planned to start flights to Pyongyang, but I can't remember from which Chinese city. I am not sure that it actually started these flights.


User currently offlineDalavia From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 549 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 12696 times:

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 22):
Do any foreign carriers currently fly into Pyongyang?

The only foreign carrier that regularly flies into Pyongyang is Air China.

China Southern used to, but stopped.

Apparently Korean Air (yes, from South Korea) sometimes flies charter flights using 737s into Pyongyang, but I have never seen that personally.


User currently offlineJHCRJ700 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 12151 times:

Quoting PillowTester (Thread starter):
South Korea absorb the North?

I've never heard of this possibility. I know that anything is possible. But I doubt this will happen anytime in the future.



RUSH
25 web500sjc : please it would be *A, well take anybody and everybody- then combine them under the wonderful guidence of SQ, LH and UA.
26 Post contains images TeamAmerica : Korea was unified up until the end of WW2. Both nations claim the entire peninsula as their legal territory. The future is a pretty long interval. Gi
27 L410Turbolet : Most likely fierce loyalty combined with fear of consequences for their loved ones should they defect. If reunification ever happens my guess is that
28 Post contains images lightsaber : Ok, To feed the topic, what are the O&D numbers of the various North Korean airports? Do any beat even BDL or some other small city airport? This
29 rwessel : And the economic gulf is far wider too - the per-capita income in East Germany was about half that of the west. North Korea's is about a twelfth that
30 RayChuang : If South and North Korea do reunify, Air Koryo will be one of the first things shut down. And it's likely that we may see the Korea Train Express (KTX
31 aviateur : This is so ridiculous. Air Koryo would cease to exist. Korean and/or Asiana would move in, and Koryo's fleet would be JUNKED, immediately. As if Lufth
32 atcsundevil : Other than providing aid (which would probably be a military operation anyway), there is zero profit from flying anywhere in North Korea, perhaps oth
33 Post contains images Superfly : Aeroflot used to fly there until a few years ago also. Perhaps they could sell their IL-62s and TU-154s on Ebay.
34 ju068 : If Korea ever unites, then I am sure it would become some sort of confederation... meaning that the North would keep an airline, rather than depend on
35 Post contains links HAM : Near-worthless assets, maybe. Mostly old aircraft, though with low cycles. But what qualifies you to judge their crews as "hostile"? Have you flown o
36 directorguy : Eventually Air Koryo will be absorbed into Korean Air or cease to exist. Or if it will exist, it will exist as a rebranded, totally different airline
37 PanHAM : given the chance to flee the country by air, one could say the whole population of the DPRK can be quoted as origin number. Same system as with the I
38 rcaq : Think so? Bear in mind that we're talking about dozens of millions of people who (reportedly) have no objections on the DPRK system - I hardly believ
39 Caymanair : Quite correct. There is very little dissent, and the majority of existing dissent looks for solutions within the current political framework. A tiny
40 Post contains images PanHAM : Is your opinion based on a poll? My reply was a bit tongue in cheek since the question ws on O&D traffic in the DPRK.. That question is a bit nai
41 Post contains links and images Superfly : ....and very cute. That is an awesome trip report! Great that you had a chance to go visit that place. Too bad you couldn't get a photo of the Ryugyo
42 aviateur : Incidentally, Air Koryo is the ONLY 1-star carrier in the SkyTrax airline rankings. Even Cubana gets two stars. For those of you who don't now, SkyTra
43 Post contains images surfandsnow : LOL, the prospect of Korean reunification is as much a pipedream as LHR's third runway - presumably possible, but realistically it will never happen t
44 Post contains images atcsundevil : Haha! Yeah and the only bidders will be A.net members! That's scary...guess I'm not going to try going to the DPRK anytime soon. Not that they want m
45 Post contains images ju068 : Well, when we had the summer Universiade in Belgrade this summer the north Korean team behaved normally. They were going around the city with their at
46 MD11Engineer : Well, once the threat from the north is gone, South korea would be able to save a lot on it´s defense budget. Jan
47 777way : If thats underdevelopment than I'd wish it upon all of South Asia.
48 ju068 : Well North Korea is more developped than most of the African countries.
49 surfandsnow : Huh? South Asians are far better off than North Koreans. South Asians enjoy Western-style education, freedom of movement, internet access, cell phone
50 Post contains images lightsaber : Only 1-star... that says a lot! Zero value to be acquired. The only reason to acquire it would be political... and politics will keep the Koreas at '
51 777way : You must be joking North Korea is almost a developed country compared to most of Africa, including the Arab North lets begin with clean and organised
52 MD11Engineer : Not all of India is Mumbay, Delhi or Bangalore. There exist also very backward rural states, which are ruled more or less by the traditional landowni
53 Post contains links 777way : North Korea is the pits and only better than most African countries, seen in these pictures http://www.enlight.ru/camera/dprk/index_e.html please tell
54 atcsundevil : Because all communist capital cities look incredible and gorgeous and powerful...it's all a charade and no one but the elite ever get to enjoy it, ev
55 777way : Who told you that CNN, Fox?
56 Vasu : Very interesting post! Thanks for sharing it
57 Post contains links lightsaber : This is about Air Koryo. This is an aviation blog. Let's try to talk that and not try to solve international politics here. To be blunt, Air Koryo's f
58 777way : Discussion was about a closed communist country not one practsisng all kinds of liberties. Huh??? my response was to this, nothing political here. So
59 einsteinboricua : South Korea's Sunshine Policy clearly states that the South will not absorb the North in any way. That's not to say that if the North should finally
60 atcsundevil : Nope.
61 Fly2YYZ : It seems as though we've gotten sidetracked from the original OP who was pretty much asking what the future of JS would be post reunification. Though
62 Post contains links lightsaber : Actually, yes. Aviation should grow 3% to 5% per year once we emerge from this boom. If North Korea doesn't grow, its aviation sector becomes... less
63 PillowTester : I have to say thanks to everyone who has responded with all the varying views to my topic. This has been fascinating to watch and read. As far as the
64 Fly2YYZ : Where can they go?! These employees of the state airline have been indoctrinated so much that they would have to go through much needed training etc
65 directorguy : The country closest to NK in terms of 'peculiarity' is Libya-and at least Libya permits travellers to visit the country and allows its people to trav
66 777way : Sensitive eh? we are talking about the place as just a country and how it LOOKS compared to other places not tourism, business, travel etc. I think N
67 lightsaber : I do not understand the talk of a place looking ok when the people are going hungry... I think the "Sunshine Policy" is over. Not officially, but look
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