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US/UA Are Off  
User currently offlineItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 14391 times:

CNBC just reported that talks between UAL and US have broken off. Hmmmmmmm

Parker just stated that the US BoD decided to terminate any additional discussion. I will post a link when it comes up.

[Edited 2010-04-22 07:54:50]

66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinerwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3105 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 14339 times:

Great news if true. This merger makes no sense for anyone.

User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17066 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 14160 times:

Quoting ItalianFlyer (Thread starter):
CNBC just reported that talks between UAL and US have broken off.

Not surprising at all. Wasnt this only some kind of mind game against CO?



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineglobalflyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 928 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 14146 times:

So I wonder will we see a CO-UA merger with the company based in IAH (no clue on which name would survive) and then what about AA-US (totally makes no sense) but I wonder how that will play out. AirTran stated they were interested in merging with a carrier if it makes sense. Guessing games begin.

The UA-US merger would have been a nightmare!



Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 14058 times:

Quoting ItalianFlyer (Thread starter):
Parker just stated that the US BoD decided to terminate any additional discussion. I will post a link when it comes up.

I got the feeling Parker is thinking "I've been had"....i.e.-Tilton used UA as a negotiating tool for CO to come to the table....



[Edited 2010-04-22 08:09:43]


"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineiliribdl From Germany, joined May 2007, 1205 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 13964 times:

Here's the letter to US employees from Parker

Quote:
Dear Fellow Employees:

As you know, there has been much recent speculation about our airline and a potential merger with United Airlines. Today we publicly issued a statement saying our Board of Directors has decided to discontinue those discussions, and I wanted to let you know where we are at this point.

Most of you know that I view consolidation as a positive for our industry. There are simply too many airlines chasing market share and this fragmentation causes our industry to struggle mightily. We continuously consider strategic options for our airline, and over the past several months, we have studied a transaction with United. However, those talks have not progressed to a merger agreement, and for the foreseeable future we intend to remain a standalone carrier.

Whether we participate in a merger or not, consolidation will create a more efficient domestic industry that can better withstand economic volatility, global competition and the cyclical nature of our industry as a whole. As I have said many times, it is not necessary for us to be direct participants in a merger because the entire industry benefits when consolidation occurs.

I am sure some “industry experts” will suggest that US Airways will be strategically harmed if United now chooses to merge with Continental. They will be wrong. Thanks to all that we have done together over the past two years – capacity rationalization, a la carte revenue programs, cost control and our commitment to operating efficiently and reliably – we have a strong and viable standalone airline that is producing industry-leading results. Should our competitors choose to merge and help create a more stable airline industry, our independent airline will only become stronger.

The busy summer travel months are ahead and we enter them with positive momentum and well-positioned to take advantage of the improving economic environment. Please keep up the great work. We're running one of the best airlines in the country and our customers are noticing. Thank you for your continued commitment to our passengers and to US Airways – I’m looking forward to continuing to see our name in the sky and working with the great people who make it happen.

- Doug

I wonder if they would stay in Star if UA-CO does happen.  



delta.com
User currently offlineUSair1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 71 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 13740 times:

Quoting iliribdl (Reply 6):
I wonder if they would stay in Star if UA-CO does happen

Yes, when the Star carriers voted CO in, US term in Star was extended through 2016 I think. So even if CO/UA merge, US will still be active in Star.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16872 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 13739 times:

Where does US go from here, the slot swap is unlikely to go through as US and DL are proposing. If it goes through it will be under the criteria set forth by the DOT which both DL and US said was a "deal breaker", I don't see the DOT moving from their position. With regards to merger partners it's really difficult, I don't see AA or DL interested in anything other than acquisitions of specific assets.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4229 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 13700 times:

Quoting iliribdl (Reply 6):
I wonder if they would stay in Star if UA-CO does happen.

They may not. US might look to another carrier for merger possibilities, unfortunately, US does not really have much to come to the table with and they would be a tough fit with any other carrier, namely AA or DL. DL and AA would not really benefit from a merger with US and they are really the only ones left if CO and UA are not attractive to US to merge with.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineTSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 3068 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 13578 times:

Quoting iliribdl (Reply 6):
I wonder if they (US) would stay in Star if UA-CO does happen.   

In my opinion, no. I'd expect US to move to OneWorld and perhaps begin code-sharing with AA in the continental US.



Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
User currently offlinenwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 13483 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 5):
I got the feeling Parker is thinking "I've been had"....

I got the feeling you're right.

I also have the feeling that this thread makes the 100 post mark before the end of the business day...

P.S. West Ham?! Really?  



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3292 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 13454 times:

Well you have to wonder if CO will walk away now as well. They don't really seem thrilled about merging with UA, and were forced to the table. Now that there's no outside force pushing at them, you gotta wonder if CO will say "we're happy where we are".

User currently offlinemcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1466 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 13279 times:

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 12):
Well you have to wonder if CO will walk away now as well. They don't really seem thrilled about merging with UA, and were forced to the table. Now that there's no outside force pushing at them, you gotta wonder if CO will say "we're happy where we are".

Just out of curiosity, how do you know CO was forced to the table? Did CO announce this or has it been announced that was the case? If you read Smisek's comments he said he would bulk up defensively if needed. The best interpretation of that might be in regards to CO losing ground to DAL and the synergy with NWA. Based on today's financial result you could make the case that CO is doing just that, losing ground.

Of course as it stands now, neither CO or UA have acknowledged whether or not there are actual talks taking place! So how could CO confirm they were forced to do something they haven't even admitted they are doing......


User currently offlineMacsog6 From Singapore, joined Jan 2010, 533 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 13156 times:
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Quoting TSS (Reply 10):
In my opinion, no. I'd expect US to move to OneWorld and perhaps begin code-sharing with AA in the continental US.

I agree. *A offers US little with a merged UA/CO. The phones are ringing in DFW will calls from PHX I'll bet.



Sixty Plus Years of Flying! "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Saint Ex
User currently offlineItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 13127 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 5):
got the feeling Parker is thinking "I've been had"....i.e.-Tilton used UA as a negotiating tool for CO to come to the table....

BRAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
  

I agree that it will be interesting to see how CO reacts after being manhandled to the negotiating table. The only response so far was a short remark on CNBC along the lines of, "we will do what is in the best interest of CO".....period.

The second point is that this blows a hole in the theory (promoted by some on a-net and by a few industry 'experts') that this was going to be a three-way Star combo or that Parker/US was seeking: a) an exit strategy for the east or west divisions or b) scare USAPA,ALPA and AFA into resolving integration negotiations NOW. I also find it compelling that it was the US Board of Directors that made the call for this missed approach....hmmmmmmm.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 13053 times:

Quoting USair1 (Reply 7):
Quoting iliribdl (Reply 6):
I wonder if they would stay in Star if UA-CO does happen

Yes, when the Star carriers voted CO in, US term in Star was extended through 2016 I think. So even if CO/UA merge, US will still be active in Star.

Not that US will leave, but it doesn't mean they can't or wont...

Quoting nwaesc (Reply 11):
P.S. West Ham?! Really?

Darn right...  .....



"Up the Irons!"
User currently onlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5957 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 13011 times:

Quoting mcdu (Reply 13):
Just out of curiosity, how do you know CO was forced to the table?

We don't...that entire line of thought is speculation mostly on this site. We don't even know which party (UA or US) started the talks to merge.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 13):
The best interpretation of that might be in regards to CO losing ground to DAL and the synergy with NWA. Based on today's financial result you could make the case that CO is doing just that, losing ground.

Exactly CO has said that they want to wait and see if the combined DL/NW would outperform them financially if so they would consider a merger.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlinevoltage From United States of America, joined May 2007, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 12864 times:

Anyone else get the impression that Parker wanted to continue talks but got his legs pulled out from under him by the BoD?

User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3292 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 12255 times:

Quoting mcdu (Reply 13):

Just out of curiosity, how do you know CO was forced to the table?

Lighten up, Francis.... I have no more idea than you that CO wasn't forced. But because CO and UA have danced this dance before, it is certainly plausible that CO had to respond, rather than just happen to want to restart talks....


User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2412 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 12142 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 17):
Exactly CO has said that they want to wait and see if the combined DL/NW would outperform them financially if so they would consider a merger.

1Q results are showing that this may indeed be the case. While DL has gained no traction in NYC against CO (at least regarding lucrative corporate contracts), it is performing better on a financial basis and substantial cost savings have already been realized.

I believe there is a strong probability that US has been shut out of this one as talks advance between UA and CO. CO's overall silence on the matter can be viewed to indicate that this is more than likely true. There seems to be much less resistance to CO/UA deal this time around, as many believe this is the best course of action for both carriers.

IMO, the writing is on the wall.

[Edited 2010-04-22 10:51:24]

User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 11935 times:

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 20):
There seems to be much less resistance to CO/UA deal this time around, as many believe this is the best course of action for both carriers.

IMO, the writing is on the wall.

Agreed. It had always seemed that CO was going to come back to the bargaining table with UA after the April 2008 back out decision (which essentially meant let us work so closely together that we can plan a reverse merger if needed.) The erie silence between both carriers over the last few days is an indicator alone but also the management shift from Larry to Jeff I think is also playing a huge role in how this is being decided. The writing was on the wall since the beginning of this year.

EDIT: some interesting articles regarding the matter:
http://www.consumertraveler.com/toda...talks-is-continental-in-the-wings/

Also a WSJ poll:

"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently onlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5957 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 11767 times:

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 20):
CO's overall silence on the matter can be viewed to indicate that this is more than likely true. There seems to be much less resistance to CO/UA deal this time around, as many believe this is the best course of action for both carriers.

IMO, the writing is on the wall.

Agreed...I can't find the article right now but there was a report that UA and CO were sharing financial information this week and an announcement one way or the other was due next week. With the alliance and previous merger talks most of the groundwork for a merger has already taken place.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5438 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 11717 times:

Quoting mcdu (Reply 13):
Based on today's financial result you could make the case that CO is doing just that, losing ground.

CO's disappointing Q1 financial performance is attributable almost totally to their stunning inability to manage fuel hedges. Their revenue and cost performance otherwise met the competition.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlinejustloveplanes From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1057 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 11617 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 17):
Exactly CO has said that they want to wait and see if the combined DL/NW would outperform them financially if so they would consider a merger.
Quoting CODC10 (Reply 20):
1Q results are showing that this may indeed be the case. While DL has gained no traction in NYC against CO (at least regarding lucrative corporate contracts), it is performing better on a financial basis and substantial cost savings have already been realized.

Based on this quarter's results, how do you think DL/NW have outperformed CO?


User currently onlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5957 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 11595 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 23):
CO's disappointing Q1 financial performance is attributable almost totally to their stunning inability to manage fuel hedges

Thats a big part of it and I've never understood that about an otherwise well run company. Both UA and CO are very well capitalized and can easily afford hedges but CO is far behind UA in terms of hedging.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
25 ItalianFlyer : Good find Tommy!! I think its a given that from this point on, things will move quickly...one way or another. I also wonder if Mr. Parker had a plan
26 United1 : Using projected and actual numbers CO had a worse net loss then DL and basically everyone but AA. DL -3.7% UA -4.1%* US -4.4%* CO -4.6% AA -10% * Wal
27 kiwiandrew : Warning : I am about to refer to something unsubstantiated that I have 'heard' but have no proof of . I fully accept that I can provide no source and
28 Deltaflyertoo : Not sure if you read the posts above this one, but people have stated that US is contractually obligated to stay in Star till 2016. I don't think the
29 AirframeAS : It makes sense to Parker. This is what he really wants. Add me to that feeling, too! LOL!
30 Post contains images kiwiandrew : I read the post that said ... ... which doesn't exactly sound definitive to me As for getting kicked out , I dont believe that the rest of *A wants t
31 UALFAson : That is the $64,000 question. Despite my sworn position to never fly them again, I don't mean this post to bash US. In fact, I kindof feel sorry for
32 kiwiandrew : I agree with the second part of your statement , but I believe that if they do that successfully they would no longer be a 'step-child' . Yes , they
33 tommy767 : US is basically playing the role of third wheel in star alliance since CO has been inducted (very similar to CO's role in skyteam.) So my bet is they
34 MoltenRock : UA seems no different than US IMHO. Continental is the only one with a step up in quality in the American legacy carriers. The rest, AA, US, UA, DL a
35 AirframeAS : AS isn't a low fare carrier, Molten.
36 tommy767 : UA at least offers complimentary IFE to Y pax as well as a premium Buy on Board program. UA service in F is also better than US. US doesn't have IFE o
37 motorhussy : If UA and CO merge, could we expect a new airline called Contented?
38 Post contains images MoltenRock : True, I realize that. My point was mentioning "smaller, more focused" carriers which are exemplified in low fare carriers but not universal, nor excl
39 StarAlliance38 : As a fervent US Airways supporter, and in my honest opinion, I agree that US has been shoved aside with UA affairs and Star Alliance affairs. I don't
40 UALFAson : Well put! You summarized in one sentence what it took me 4 paragraphs to beat around the bush and still not say. Thanks!
41 Post contains images Jacobin777 : I think US could fit nicely into OneWorld, offering cities which AA isn't strong in-such as PHL, CLT, PHX....'ell, maybe even start PIT-LHR...
42 jfk777 : With all teh America West & "old" Usairways problems still to be solved there was no way UA and US was going to work. Continental is looking more
43 nwaesc : Good to see someone's deviated from the MU/ Liverpool/Chelsea troika... It's been a LONG season for this Pompey supporter. Now back on topic...
44 ca2ohHP : I'm left wondering if Tilton's plan all along was to lure CO back to the table, why didn't he pick up the phone and call them rather than playing a hi
45 United1 : Or, more likely, something in the offer that UA made to US was not palatable to US...
46 StarAlliance38 : I'll need to change my A.net username haha. I wouldn't mind seeing US in OW as long as the fares stay low. But, I cannot see AA/US as one airline; Co
47 wn700driver : Not in the least. It is clear that US may have wanted some of what UA has to offer, but the whole package would have been a disaster for US. They hav
48 Post contains links and images Jacobin777 : ....never know, according to this article: "The rupture between United and US Airways doesn't mean that they wouldn't return to the negotiating table
49 Byrdluvs747 : I'm of the belief that with a little tweaking US could fit within OW. Out west they would provide instant access to a western network that AA can't p
50 BOACCunard : I don't really follow this logic. If you're a US-based Star frequent flyer who doesn't like US (a position I can sympathize with), what would US leav
51 Post contains images peanuts : On a more positive note for US: if they stay put in StarAlliance, they will only have to "deal" with one fellow American carrier, not two (if UA/CO be
52 Jamake1 : Well, maybe US Airways can get on with integrating US East and America West...
53 mariner : I'm sure that's right, but it all just seems very predictable. They go from a boring merger with United, which would mean the end of US Airways, to a
54 MasseyBrown : It certainly gives Parker a strong argument with the unions: you bickering fools have cut your own throats.
55 Post contains links mcdu : I disagree with the above. US is the airline that NEEDS a merger partner. It doesn't matter what the books look like. It is in dire need of being a l
56 Post contains links ca2ohHP : If US was that desperate why would it's own Board call off the discussions? It was quite a circus on all sides, but in the end UA appears more desper
57 mcdu : Well you haven't posted an article that says "UA irked that US walked away" have you? This and the previous article show that US was willing to do an
58 ca2ohHP : So the next move will be Continental concluding their talks with United and the cycle continues ala 2008, 2010?
59 milesrich : The United States Bankruptcy Court in Wilmington, Delaware is a possible choice. If AirTran merges with US Airways, it will be the end of AirTran. Th
60 Post contains links iliribdl : Interesting article shows they were close to a deal. Why the United/US Airways Merger Collapsed
61 Post contains images Jacobin777 : CLT is a growing city. It has a lot of the banking industry, and I believe it can become a profitable hub (if its not already) if given the opportuni
62 ca2ohHP : Interesting indeed: People can say what they want on here, but I have to give Parker credit where credit is due.
63 sancho99504 : Unfortunately, a deal with AFA won't happen until USAPA agrees to finally keep to their word and make a deal with ALPA. If you recall, America West w
64 ca2ohHP : THANK YOU! My thoughts exactly. Unfortunately the change of control clause in the pilot's contract, requiring snap-backs to pre-2000 pay rates, is pr
65 AirframeAS : They have been trying to get to that point to become a LCC. Look at their stock ticker code, it is LCC.
66 Jacobin777 : I read that article as well and it seems that the pilots union really "stuffed it to themselves" this time...good job pilots union!
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