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UA/CO Merger: Impact On Airports  
User currently offlineModerators From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 513 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 28671 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

The news about a possible UA/CO merger has spawned several threads, covering very detailed aspects of the transaction, and many forms of speculation. In the interest of keeping the forum organized and the discussions more cohesive, please add your posts in one of the "official" threads on the subject. You will find them in the forum index with the following titles:

Possible UA/CO Merger: Impact on Fleets & Routes
Possible UA/CO Merger: Impact on Employees
Possible UA/CO Merger: Impact on Regionals
Possible UA/CO Merger: Impact on Alliances
Possible UA/CO Merger: Impact on Airports

Please use this thread to discuss impact on Airports. Other similar threads will be locked as duplicates and redirected to this one. Thank you.


Please use moderators@airliners.net to contact us.
209 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4299 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 28584 times:
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I'm wondering why CO (IAD - B concourse) and UA (IAD - A, C, and D concourses)
haven't combined operation like at ORD.


User currently offlinedavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 28456 times:

I wonder how fast in IAH UA would move from A to C, or B with COEX.

I would also be nice to see CO with a hub in DEN again.

Another big change would be NYC in general. The two combined would have strong ops out of all three airports. But would they be required to give up slots at LGA?

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineplatinumfoota From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 28405 times:

Who will have more flights ORD or IAH??


Never forget United 93
User currently offlinehnl-jack From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 820 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 28277 times:

I don't see the combination of UA/CO decreasing their activity in Hawaii and makes the combined carrier the dominant force in HNL. HA had closed the gap with UA considerably. The question in HNL would be the future of the CO hangar / maintenance facility and flight kitchen.


Grew up in the business and continued the family tradition.
User currently offlinehnl-jack From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 820 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 28214 times:

Quoting davescj (Reply 2):
I would also be nice to see CO with a hub in DEN again.

If this goes through this will be an interesting market to watch. The CO system brings considerable potential for DEN
traffic. With WN fighting for share and F9 in the market it will be interesting to see if UA/CO uses CO's strength in the southwest to strengthen DEN or choose to reduce DEN and reroute some of the UA connecting traffic through HOU.



Grew up in the business and continued the family tradition.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 28190 times:

I wonder how SEA will be dealt with. UA is in N and CO is on B. I assume that they would place the combined company on N and kick AS out only to be put back on D/C and maybe on B?


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinesurfandsnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2887 posts, RR: 31
Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 28121 times:

There won't be any problems here at LAX. In fact, UA/CO would control the entire Eastern side of T6 - perfect opportunity to add some more flights to Latin America, Guam, or Asia!  


Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12210 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 28078 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting hnl-jack (Reply 4):
The question in HNL would be the future of the CO hangar / maintenance facility and flight kitchen.

Could those facilities in HNL be the excuse to launch more Pacific services like to NAN, RAR or maybe Australia or Europe? Maybe CO/UA could combine their services with NZs Pacific services


User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6003 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 28047 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler

"DL and NW did not operate mainline service to each other's hubs from NYC. DL offered a few RJ flights from JFK to NW's hubs, not mainline service. Not only is the concentration of service going to be much higher w/ UA/CO but the lack of anyone else to realistically check UA/CO is problematic."

No where in your original statement did you exclude RJs and concentrate solely on mainline flights. Fine if you want to, as usual, change the parameters of the discussion mid-stream I guess we can. UA and CO mainline do not overlap each other in any way out of JFK or LGA so we will concentrate on EWR. Out of EWR UA flies a grand total of 10 daily mainline flights (2xSFO, 3xDEN, 5xORD.) Of those routes 2 face no direct competition out of EWR (SFO and DEN) ORD has AA mainline (and Eagle) on it so we can exclude it as, to use your term, there is another airline there to directly check UA. Of the other two routes mainline service is provided out of other NYC airports (LGA and JFK) and on both of those routes low fare competition exists in the form of B6 and/or F9 in addition to legacy competition from DL and/or AA.

How exactly is it that you feel that adding 10 flights a day to COs mainline schedule out of EWR is going to create a high enough concentration of service to warrant a slot divestiture? Especially when 3 legacy or low fare carriers have hubs/focus cities just on the other side of the Hudson and UA mainline would be responsible for 5% of the total flights out of a combined UA/CO operation out of EWR.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineGlom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2819 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 27944 times:

If they move to a merged branding, will the new airline operate out of both T1 and T4 at LHR?

User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5192 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 27628 times:

At IAH I don't know if it will be necessary for UA to move. The TerminaLink extension to Terminal A looks to be 75-80% complete. Remember, Continental is planning a $1B Terminal B with its own FIS at IAH.


Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlinePoRtColuMBus From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1614 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 27531 times:

What happens to CLE?

.


User currently offlinergreenftm From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 27358 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 6):
I wonder how SEA will be dealt with. UA is in N and CO is on B. I assume that they would place the combined company on N and kick AS out only to be put back on D/C and maybe on B?

I don't think so - As much as I'd like to see AS out of N, hasn't AS spent, and is continuing to spend a fair amount of money to make N their own?

Even before talks of a UA/CO merger, the talk/plan has been to move UA out of N.


User currently offlineAirport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 27077 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 6):
I wonder how SEA will be dealt with. UA is in N and CO is on B. I assume that they would place the combined company on N and kick AS out only to be put back on D/C and maybe on B?
Quoting rgreenftm (Reply 13):
I don't think so - As much as I'd like to see AS out of N, hasn't AS spent, and is continuing to spend a fair amount of money to make N their own?

Correct. AS is looking to acquire most or all of the N gates and vacate the D concourse entirely. It's interesting to see what'll eventually happen. There are a lot of different ways you could move the puzzle pieces around, the two options I think are most likely is a) UA/CO dropping all widebody service out of SEA and moving into Concourse D, or b) WN and other airlines currently in B moving to D, and UA/CO occupying all of the B concourse.

Obviously C is out, S is probably out due to lack of gate space, as is with A, so I think the only three places in SEA UA/CO could occupy would be N, D, or B. I think it's more likely that we'll see UA/CO take over D and AS take over N entirely than vice versa.

Cheers!
Anthony/Airport


User currently offlinerjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 27047 times:

In NYC:
I expect United/Continental would launch JFK-IAH again. This can easily be operated from T7 where United currently operates from. At LGA, it will be interesting to watch. If US stays in the Star Alliance, perhaps United & Continental will move into the US terminal (after all, Continental leases the terminal to US). It will be difficult for United & Continental to consolidate in any of the Central Terminal concourses.


User currently offlinesancho99504 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 570 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 26861 times:

Quoting Airport (Reply 14):
UA/CO dropping all widebody service out of SEA and moving into Concourse D, or b) WN and other airlines currently in B moving to D, and UA/CO occupying all of the B concourse.

UA 875/876 NRT........Are you suggesting they dump this money maker?



kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
User currently offlineDLX737200 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1930 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 26793 times:

Here in OMA, UA and CO are already in the same terminal so that's helpful. CO is handled by American Eagle and UA is all mainline. So I'm certain American Eagle would fall to the wayside and UA mainline personnel would takeover the entire operation. OMA's combined UA/CO carrier would have nonstop service to IAH, EWR, DEN and ORD.

User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 26771 times:

slot divesting of UA/CO is probably minimum..... nearly every hub has some competition :

SFO - AA (kinda focus city), VX
LAX - AA, DL, WN
DEN - F9, WN
ORD - AA, WN (at Midway), YX (at Milwaukee, but that's a bit stretching the definition of Chicago)
IAD - DL (LGA), US (LGA, but not sure if you can count that since it's the same alliance)

EWR - AA, DL, US, B6
IAH - WN (at HOU)

there's CLE monopoly, but it's such an unimportant market that DOT won't really give them a hard time over that (hey, guess what, that CLE-SFO monopoly is probably way less consequential than 70% dominance JFK-LHR of you-know-who)

so if you factor in competing airports of the same metropolitan, there's no where that UA/CO becomes a monopoly. One can argue there's no SanFran to Houston flight outside of UA/CO, but that's AA and WN's choice of not operating that route.

DOT will probably force them to divest route-authority instead - e.g. give up some of those Chinese and Brazilian rights

[Edited 2010-04-26 07:29:18]

User currently offlineAirport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 26712 times:

Quoting sancho99504 (Reply 16):
UA 875/876 NRT........Are you suggesting they dump this money maker?

Is it a moneymaker? Last I heard it was one of UA's weakest performing transpacific route networks.

Cheers,
Anthony/Airport


User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3535 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 26671 times:

"Another big change would be NYC in general. The two combined would have strong ops out of all three airports. But would they be required to give up slots at LGA?"

They each have a small presence at LGA. Even combined, they will have a small presence.

They will have virtually no presence at JFK. JFK has the PS flights to LAX and SFO and a handful of Express to IAD. CO doesn't fly to JFK.


User currently offlineramprat74 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1541 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 26434 times:

At PDX. Moving the CO flights into United's concourse E won't be a problem. Also their ticket counter from the armpit of the lobby to United's more central location.

User currently offlinejetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3310 posts, RR: 35
Reply 22, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 26395 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 9):
How exactly is it that you feel that adding 10 flights a day to COs mainline schedule out of EWR is going to create a high enough concentration of service to warrant a slot divestiture? Especially when 3 legacy or low fare carriers have hubs/focus cities just on the other side of the Hudson and UA mainline would be responsible for 5% of the total flights out of a combined UA/CO operation out of EWR.

Look closely at the US/DL slot swap. If DOT follows the same line of reasoning used there, they will extract a price from CO/UA at EWR. Proposed levels of concentration at LGA and DCA are far lower than CO/UA will have at EWR (or have today) and DOT still hit DL/US pretty hard.


User currently offlinesldispatcher From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 407 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 26306 times:

Will be interesting to see if DEN and/or ORD would send flights into the deep south to hook up some of the IAH only CAL cities. With several energy related companies working out of DEN, seems like a good fit.

Also, AA had several deep south ERJ flights, wonder if the E170 would be more profitable?

I know I'm praying for E+..they'll have my $350+ every year.


User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6003 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 26306 times:

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 22):
Look closely at the US/DL slot swap. If DOT follows the same line of reasoning used there, they will extract a price from CO/UA at EWR. Proposed levels of concentration at LGA and DCA are far lower than CO/UA will have at EWR (or have today) and DOT still hit DL/US pretty hard.

You cant really compare the two transactions thought. DL and US already have large operations at both LGA and DCA and are attempting to consolidate and significantly change their respective market share at DCA and LGA. While adding UA to CO will change the market share slightly at EWR its microscopic amount compared to US and DL at LGA/DCA.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
25 AznMadSci : The TerminaLink extension will probably help travelers connecting from AC or US flights. I thought once the upgrades to C ticketing are complete, the
26 STT757 : They have so few to begin with, I seriously doubt the DOT would ask for any slot divestitures at LGA. As pointed out UA barely has 10 mainline flight
27 robo65 : Could those facilities in HNL be the excuse to launch more Pacific services like to NAN, RAR or maybe Australia or Europe? Maybe CO/UA could combine t
28 LHCVG : I presume you meant DCA here? I'd think that NYC is a bit far to be local competition to DC. Regarding US, if I read the threads on the slot swap cor
29 robo65 : I am not sure if a combined CO/UA if it does happen would really want a big hub in DEN maybe a small satellite type thing because of the stiff competi
30 robo65 : I wonder how fast in IAH UA would move from A to C, or B with COEX. I believe UA move to terminal C was already in the works. I had heard that UA was
31 rjpieces : At DCA, I assume they would consolidate in Pier 2 of Concourse B (the one that AA & UA currently use). Might be tight though.
32 AADC10 : Have you seen Concourse B vs C & D? B is a permanent concourse with adequate space and natural light. C & D were "temporary," built in the la
33 AirportPlan : Yes. This moves has been in the works for months and should be completed shortly.
34 LHCVG : That would be tight! UA has what, 3 gates currently? And CO has at least 2, so they would need at least one additional gate and probably a shared one
35 AirframeAS : Didn't they shrink in SEA a few years back when they threatened a move to BFI??
36 United1 : I thought I read on here a few months ago that UA was moving over to join CO in those 4 gates on the connector between the old and new terminals.
37 jetlanta : You guys are living in dreamland. So you are saying that DOT was NOT OK with DL and US having about 50% of slots at LGA and DCA because they were eve
38 United1 : No I am saying adding UA slots to COs slots does not change the competitive landscape in NY....however adding US and DLs together in LGA and DCA sign
39 STT757 : The DCA/LGA slot swap would change the competitive balance at both airports significantly, CO/UA merging would not change the competitive landscape a
40 tommy767 : The DOT really isn't going to care that much about UA's EWR slots. Besides who exactly is going to want these slots? DL? B6?
41 kgaiflyer : I changed planes a couple weeks ago [BWI-EWR-PWM] in Concourse A -- specifically, in the pier shared by Continental Express and JetBlue. I could see
42 thomacf : CLE is gone in 6-12 months if the merger happens. Read all the articles recently in the Plan Dealer about how the media in Cleveland thinks the idiots
43 tommy767 : Yes B6 could benefit on some point to point routes out of EWR. Not sure where but maybe BUF, RIC, BOS, IAD etc. DL seems pretty content in B-1 with A
44 jetlanta : But there is NO competitive balance at EWR today! That is the point. EWR is actually not competitive at all. You think DOT is going to say, well, the
45 Cubsrule : I think that's right, but it really doesn't matter because UA's slot holdings aren't very significant. Also, the combined carrier may be able to dive
46 jetlanta : Absolutely agreed. The concessions won't be dramatic, but they will be required.
47 STT757 : Perhaps not, the overlap is miniscule which is why the potential merger is a good match up.
48 STT757 : That makes no sense, because they have a big presence at EWR they would need to divest slots at LGA where they have the smallest presence of the majo
49 Cubsrule : No, that wasn't my point. My point was that, if given a choice, it might make sense for the combined carrier to divest those slots used for IAD-LGA r
50 T5towbar : How about giving B6 Airtran's old slots and call it a day. They probably can use them, and move out of A2. There is space either in A3 or B1 since AA
51 GlobalCabotage : NYC-CHI shuttle on UA / CO would be impressive. Between ORD and EWR/LGA/HPN/JFK/ISP/SWF, you could get flights almost every 15 to 20 minutes. ORD-LGA/
52 davescj : If there is a merger, I think what others have said about CLE is right. It will become an RJ hub. Now, that said, it could also be a comfortable "chan
53 rjpieces : Regarding LGA, the more I think about the more it makes sense for United/Continental to move into the US Terminal. There is plenty of gate space...The
54 Post contains images deltal1011man : No they wont. they will have 3 gates in T6. the rest are CUTE gates. With AS moving over there they will get the first rights to all the T6 gates sav
55 STT757 : Most of UA's EWR slots support ORD flights, of which there is plenty of competition from AA.
56 Boeing1970 : EWR is slot allocated? I thought that got killed.[Edited 2010-04-29 15:45:09]
57 United1 : Actually thats not entirely true first dibs on gate usage in the common use part of T6 is based on historical use which means that AS and DL have to
58 ncflyer : I think CAK should be sweating a bit. No reason for AirTran or Frontier to be flying out of there once CLE opens up.
59 Antoniemey : Even if CLE "opens up" as dramatically as some want to claim it will (which it could, but it would take quite awhile if so... and CLE is basically a
60 deltal1011man : No UA gave up its "first dibs" when they signed over T7/8 to LAWA last year and opened up the T6/7 FIS to use. Plus AS isn't going to move over to T6
61 United1 : No they didn't what UA gave up was the right to dictate who used those gates in T6. The agreement that is in place spells out how gate use is allocat
62 KBUF : As far as BUF is concerned, the easiest way to go about getting UA and CO next to each other would be to have CO and B6 swap gates, since B6's gates a
63 AADC10 : CLE is already a RJ hub for CO, mostly because of the lack of capacity at EWR. ORD and IAD could replace all of CLE's RJ flights, although like the d
64 ScottB : I've been trying to figure out what a merged UA/CO would end up doing at BOS. I doubt there's enough room for United to move into the nicer Terminal A
65 tommy767 : The thing that people need to realize is that CLE isn't really a traditional hub. It's a regional jet hub with some 30-ish mainline flights a day on
66 DocLightning : How does one have an RJ hub without a mainline hub there to support it? The whole point of an RJ hub is that they feed/are fed by a mainline hub.
67 rjpieces : It will also be nice to have United back at FLL & PBI again....I'm sure we will see service back to ORD & IAD. Yes.
68 Cubsrule : Would it make any sense for UA and CO to move in to US' space in B and US to move to C? Because they have downsized BOS quite a bit, US doesn't need
69 globaldude : All of this talk about CO/UA having to divest in EWR where CO already dominates and UA brings minimal to the table makes me wonder...did DL give up ga
70 ScottB : Yes, but I strongly doubt Delta will give up five or six gates for United to move into Terminal A. I'm not certain it would save US much money, since
71 Cubsrule : The more interesting question might be whether UA, US, and CO could all fit in the 18 gates. UA has about 27 peak daily flights, CO has about 20, and
72 ScottB : Ten years ago, US had 164 daily departures from BOS, so they probably could manage it. However, freeing up the United gates in Terminal C would also
73 Cubsrule : That's right in general, but this is a situation like what DL faced at ORD. Their choices were to stay separated to squat or to consolidate and leave
74 FlyPNS1 : In general, the carriers only squat on gates that are located in markets that are strategically important to them. Hence, DL had no reason to squat i
75 EWRandMDW : Can terminal C at EWR be expanded to accomodate all combined flights, that is move current CO and UA services from terminal A to C? I'm guessing addin
76 alphaomega : And look at what DL has out of JFK - about even with CO/UA in EWR and DL in JFK.
77 aznmadsci : This actually begs the question ... will they go with the redevelopment of A at EWR? From STT757's old post regarding Terminal A, there is room on th
78 EddieDude : So, you think the new UA will stay in MEX's T1 or T2 (CO moved to T2 a couple of years ago)??? CO moved to T2 basically because they were in SkyTeam a
79 FutureUScapt : Not even remotely close. DL operates under 200 daily flights at JFK. CO operates more than at 400 daily departures at EWR. Thats not to mention that
80 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ...CO is HUGE @ EWR.and its the same like AA @ DFW.....2nd place is a faaaaaaar second place...
81 SlcDeltaRUmd11 : Sorry to see but I'm afraid CLE is going to be the next CVG, PIT, or STL I am really wondering what effect this merger would have on DEN? It is kind o
82 tommy767 : DL is the very distant #2 carrier at EWR with 33 flights a day. That is more than what AA and UA currently operate out of the airport.
83 deltal1011man : Right but the new AS agreement gives them first right to the non-DL/CO gates. They worked out a new deal with LAWA on T7/8 but nothing will change at
84 thegreatRDU : CLE days are numbered it will be a slow death like CVG but it doesn't serve a purpose for United anymore... It's a simple as that....don't try to argu
85 RL757PVD : Wonder what they will do at ATL UA is on T and CO is on D... and might those freed up gates allow WN in?
86 MSYtristar : United will be #2 in MSY in terms of daily departures, assuming they keep all the flights that are currently operating (and let's face it...the lone C
87 deltal1011man : No. DL will take them. 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% sure of that.
88 RL757PVD : Does Delta have the first right of refusal on another airline's gates?
89 deltal1011man : I *believe* so but i may be wrong.
90 United1 : I wonder if UA and FL will work out some sort of agreement....FL might like a few gates on T and UA would be in the same concourse as US and AC. Idea
91 my1le : Is UA keeping IAD as a hub? If not that would be just one more horrible thing that would come from the change over.
92 United1 : UA is keeping all the hubs...
93 my1le : Thank you, glad to hear
94 RL757PVD : I can't imagine the FAA allowing something like that in the federally required airport competition plan... but ATL does a lot of things that are agai
95 SlcDeltaRUmd11 : So they say now. IAD, EWR, CLE, and ORD are not realistic to all operate and be cost efficient. Look how close they look on the map they just issued.
96 N766UA : United said the same thing back before they originally closed CLE in favor of IAD. They told the employees they were "commited to the hub in Clevelan
97 Antoniemey : The jobs are safe... for at least the next year to two years... beyond that there is no certainty... and there wouldn't be even if this merger weren'
98 kgaiflyer : All three pay for their existence with both conex and O&D. Same with IAH, LAX and SFO. Btw, IAD gets *millions* from the Fed for government trave
99 Post contains images iliribdl : What will happen at BDL? Will CO go where UA is? (being that US is there as well, you know the alliance etc) I hope they increase more flights and bri
100 Cubsrule : What's the breakdown on government travel to DCA versus IAD? In a lot of cities, the DCA contract fare is much lower.
101 The777Man : I'm not so sure it's a done deal with AS moving to T-6; they still need to make sure CBP keeps open the FIS 6/7 much longer hours than currently; tha
102 Post contains images Commavia : With Chicago and Dulles, there is absolutely no economic justification I can see for keeping a hub in Cleveland. The exact same traffic flows can be
103 GlobalCabotage : Still, even if CLE is drastically reduced, there are key markets that there will still need to be flights to. CLE will not become a station the size o
104 Commavia : Sure, but you don't need an operation a fraction of the size of what they have there now in order to serve the Cleveland local market. They could do
105 United1 : That is basicly what they have right now in terms of mainline flights...less actualy. UA has said at this point they are dedicated to having an "ub"
106 Commavia : I'm not talking mainline - I'm talking total. I could see: 8x mainline ORD 8x mainline EWR 4x mainline DEN 3x mainline LAX 2x mainline SFO 1x mainlin
107 United1 : I think UA will operate a few more flights then that at the end of the day. I think that CLEs role will be changed from a reliever hub to more of an
108 kgaiflyer : That may be -- and BWI lower than either DCA or IAD. But the current discussion is of the substance that would prevent *any one* of the eight hubs fr
109 BOStonsox : Not really, Massport is going to renovate Terminal C. UA/CO in B with or without US seems interesting if it could work. I wonder if they would care a
110 FL787 : Many routes make a lot more sense now that CO is in the picture. FLL and PBI should come back. MEX could probably work yearround with CO's existing p
111 thegreatRDU : That's a solid list you had going on but 3x to LAX and even 2x to SFO is overkill...
112 Antoniemey : CO already has 2x to LAX from CLE on their own... I can't imagined that UA doesn't have at least one or two frequencies on that route... 2 or 3 737s
113 Cubsrule : Even if they care, what will they do about it? I don't see a scenario in which UA, CO, and B6 can be together (unless DL somehow leaves A).
114 thegreatRDU : What do you mean on their own Tony?
115 BOStonsox : I wasn't saying that UA, CO, and B6 would end up together in Terminal C, and in fact I don't see it happening at all. You were talking about squattin
116 cws818 : Swap with whom? I suppose, in theory they could attempt to swap with AA, but (1) I don't see AA salivating over the prospect of moving to Terminal C;
117 MasseyBrown : Over the years CO has regularly said that CLE boardings are more than 50% O&D. IIRC, 2007 was almost 60%. CLE has never been as heavily weighted
118 BOStonsox : They would swap with each other, so US goes into Terminal C and UA/CO goes into Terminal B. B6 would want any gates freed up in Terminal C, but I won
119 DeltAirlines : No issues at MSP to report - UA currently has E6, E8 and E10; Continental has E3, E7 and E9. There might be some gate shuffling occurring soon involvi
120 kgaiflyer : If I recall, USAir has 13 gates in two piers with a food court in between -- plus the Express set up at gate 9. Where is there that kind of space in
121 FX1816 : I was on the unitedcontinentalmerger.com website and when I looked at the map it did not show ONT but did show all of the other SoCal airports UA/CO f
122 davescj : The more I think about it, the more I think AADC10 is right. I do think that CLE is going the way of CVG. The only flights will be to hubs and a few
123 SlcDeltaRUmd11 : Does anyone know how long CO leases are for at CLE? Seems like a huge part of the decision for UA.
124 bobnwa : Phil Orlandella, spokesperson for Massport, said today that UA will likely move to terminal A to be with CO.
125 STT757 : Excellent news, they need to grab a couple more gates from DL.
126 Post contains links ScottB : An article from the Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2010/05/04/united_continental_merger_not_apt_to_change_much_in_boston/) not
127 EMB170 : In IND, CO was using the far end of concourse A (gates A17, A21, and A23, IIRC). UA, on othe other hand, uses the far end of concourse B (gates B20, B
128 njdevilsin03 : I was going to say does this mean FLL and PBI see old UAL routes back. FLL-ORD,DEN,IAD? Maybe SFO to compete with VirginAmerica?
129 joeman : I'd agree. CO was already using CLE as a spare parts department for EWR and IAH which is partially how CLE has already been drastically reduced. CLE
130 thegreatRDU : Anything transatlantic from CLE will go... Of course they will co-exist it's Washington and New York...
131 BOStonsox : I don't know where. That's just what I'm hearing for other people. That makes the most sense. That frees up space in Terminal C for B6 and/or WN (and
132 SANFan : In SAN, I assume UA/CO would move to UA's current home in T1W (East terminal, west rotunda) using the present 5 gates of UA plus, my guess is, 2 or al
133 DeltAirlines : Realistically, it's more of a Massport utopia. The main terminal building in A (where CO has their gates right now) cannot handle Boeing 757s, let al
134 kgaiflyer : Why would they do that? ONT has become a business destination. Anyone abandoning that location would be cutting off their nose to spite their face. O
135 ScottB : I was privately thinking that as well but hey, it's Massport... I'm reasonably certain that BOS-LHR was a 777 for part of the time United operated it
136 USAirALB : It says on the merger website, that CLT has a direct flight to DEN. Are they bringing this back?
137 cws818 : Could US fit on the UA concourse @ C? SANFan, Please forgive my ignorance but have the former NW operations moved out of the AA concourse at T2E? If
138 DeltAirlines : I'm pretty sure it was on a 767-300 when it ended, but 777s might have been on it at some point. I know UA has occasionally subbed the 777 into Bosto
139 ADent : Today it is 2 RJs on UA and 1 mainline (737, often a -500) on CO. Why the big jump? Does hub to (mini) hub drive that much extra traffic?
140 ml86 : One of the most interesting outcomes IMO will be that of the Atlantic gateway operation. Although I have a slight bias for EWR (Living 5 mins away) IA
141 tommy767 : That said, I would think EWR-IAD-EWR will be served with much larger aircraft: A32S/737/757 etc.
142 SANFan : Sorry to take so long to respond to your question, '818. Yes, NW moved everything over to T2W (Delta's home) including use of the "DL" gates out at t
143 aznmadsci : Since we're talking about airports, I wonder what would happen at SEA. Currently UA is in N while CO is in B. AS is in the process to take all of N an
144 surfandsnow : CO is a very big player to/from Florida. UA's problem was justifying station costs with so much competition and so few flights. That won't be a probl
145 SANFan : Ummmmm, you might want to start at the beginning of the thread, say, reply #6... bb
146 scorpy : They are already co-located at DTW, CO just moved out of the McNamara terminal and into the north terminal to the same end of the terminal as UA/AC an
147 DeltAirlines : Rumor I've been hearing is that the merged carrier would operate out of the end of the A Concourse and take over the former AA clubspace.
148 aznmadsci : That would be interesting to have a Star concourse at SEA. So will HA remain in A since they just moved to A? Who will move to B and D? Was the forme
149 STT757 : I'm curious about future infrastructure investments for the combined carrier at the hubs, there's several areas that will need to be addressed over th
150 CALPSAFltSkeds : Do we know what will happen with the new T2W expansion? Maybe UA/CO would take over lots of those gates, thus allowing WN to expand into T1W along wi
151 SANFan : I think it's too soon to start hearing about the post-Green Build gate usage plans. (Especially considering all the mergers, alliances, etc., happeni
152 COEWR787 : The next planned major expansion of a terminal in terms of new gates is Terminal A not C at EWR. Module A1 is supposed to be replaced by tow straight
153 STT757 : Actually the PA dropped the renovation of Terminal A plan in favor of a totaly new Terminal A to be built where the Postal and long term lots are loc
154 T5towbar : Yeah. I heard the same thing. No one isn't telling us anything as of late. It was supposed to be that mainline (UA) aircraft will come to Terminal C,
155 COEWR787 : Interesting. Thanks. So what will happen to what is Terminal A now? Will it remain in place or will it be simply removed?
156 fun2fly : What would you suggest CO do with the 50-65 (guessing at the #) of CLE based RJ's? They can only return a few. Add the cost of making them disappear
157 Cubsrule : Where are the passengers to fill those airplanes going to come from? CO doesn't fill any more than about fifty percent of the seats with local passen
158 kgaiflyer : There is *money* in Cleveland. There is business in Cleveland. Realistically, FL and WN might have fill in on some services. But rather that totally
159 mk777 : Maybe now that UA and CO have decided to merge, they would invest in building a new concourse "C" at the base of the new control tower at IAD. The cur
160 fun2fly : I wonder about the future of IAD and if it might be rightsized in the new UA. UA's role was N/S connector (not as good as ATL, CLT), feed to other hu
161 mk777 : Well both these comments tell me that where will EWR expand to, already that whole area is saturated, is there room for expansion at EWR?? In fact, o
162 Post contains images adam42185 : Didn't DL finance and develop most of the project to rebuild Terminal A? I don't see them going anywhere, nor being much willing to give up gates to
163 Post contains links STT757 : Torn down eventually and replaced with a new terminal. Check here for the video from the Port Authority with the renderings. http://link.brightcove.c
164 kgaiflyer : Same with BOS. Until then *both* need to be freshened -- new paint -- modern lighting -- new wall-to-wall. A little spit and polish would do wonders.
165 CALPSAFltSkeds : That would be kind of sad and a poor way to treat short-haul commuters to SFO by making them take a long hike. After DL took over NW, they canned the
166 BlueF9A320 : I'd like to know what will happen to the MX facilities both CO and UA have at DEN...
167 Post contains links MasseyBrown : The local Cleveland paper said yesterday that CLE's current passenger count is 73% O&D - that's for all airlines, not just CO. http://www.clevela
168 Cubsrule : ...and we can be assured that that's lower for CO (because all the other legacies are nearly 100% connecting). The fifty percent number is for CLE-BO
169 MasseyBrown : Sorry, didn't realize your 50% was BOS specifically. I would have guessed all the other legacies were almost 100% O&D vis a vis their systems as
170 Cubsrule : We are. I meant 100% O&D, but I typed 100% connecting.
171 airfrnt : I doubt very much that UA will do anything with their MX facility. The CO facility is unused now, since F9 was leasing it, but has since moved their
172 STT757 : With regards to maintenance as I understand it UA does widebody/757 work in house at SFO, but outsources their A319/A320 work. CO outsources their wid
173 United1 : UA does A&B checks in house but outsources C&D checks. SFO does landing gear work for the 757/777, all of UAs PW engines (all of the Boeing's
174 Post contains links STT757 : Jeff Smisek was at EWR yesterday meeting with employees, he stated that EWR will be growing as a result of the merger. Specifically he mentioned redep
175 FL787 : I could see the new UA putting 763s on routes out of EWR that need first class or longer range but UA's 763s only seat 183 people so it's only an inc
176 TOMMY767 : Doubt it. I think CO has longed for a 3 cabin product and the merger with UA finally sees that opportunity. Most likely will be United First, United
177 FL787 : I don't think they should get rid of F either, but if they're not going to increase the number of seats on the 763, what is the point of moving them
178 Post contains links and images kgaiflyer : Excuse me? CO 's 752 C class is a better UA 's 763 C class? Either you don't get out much of you don't really understand what "class" is. http://www.
179 Post contains images aznmadsci : CO's 752 and 772s are the first two fleets getting the new lie-flat BF seat. In terms of the Y seat, both 752 and 772 fleets all have AVOD and inseat
180 Post contains links BlueF9A320 : I'd like to know exactly how the United business hard product is better than what Continental is installing http://www.continental.com/web/en-US...l/
181 FL787 : I'd say they are about the same except that CO's seat has a little more width and storage space. I also think the soft product will be better in C on
182 Cubsrule : He never said that. What he did say - and I agree - is that CO's hard product is no better. The seats are nearly identical.
183 Post contains images kgaiflyer : In other words, CO planes *don't actually have it* yet. When they do get it, then it will be wonderful.
184 STT757 : CO's EWR-HNL is very successful, it's survived 12 years so far. I've taken the route myself and it's full, the connecting opportunities on the West C
185 N766UA : Interesting article! However, they mention PIT operations slumped from "118 nonstop destinations to 36 nonstops today." Seems a bit confusing to me,
186 Post contains links FL787 : 10 772s and 8 752s already have the new seats: http://www.continental.com/web/en-us...ght/businessfirst/fleetstatus.aspx Three class is definitely no
187 BlueF9A320 : That isn't what I said at all now is it?
188 STT757 : No, I expect two configurations. A three class, and a two class/Business first configuration. I think we are going to see the 767-300s pulled off of
189 Post contains links STT757 : They do , and there are even trip reports here with photos; http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...ums/trip_reports/read.main/168724/
190 FL787 : What do you think will happen with UA's 6 domestic 772As? I think they'll keep some 763s in a domestic configuration. 14 planes is a lot of lift to p
191 laphroig : I keep hearing about the so-called "domestic" UA 777 and 767 aircraft. While these are termed "domestic" because they are in a high density 2 class co
192 United1 : The 14 763ER and 6 772 aircraft rotate throught the Hawaii and hub to hub market...
193 drerx7 : The domestic 772s that they are referring two are not just a higher density configuration. There are the first 777s made...NON-ER models so they trul
194 Post contains images aznmadsci : As we continue to propose the 753 to Hawaii, would the 753 be able to handle HNL-GUM as an additional flight, possibly as a continuation from LAX? Ye
195 DeltAirlines : We might see a bit of a gate reshuffle going on in Atlanta now that I think of it, involving Delta, US Airways and United: -US Airways would leave th
196 CALPSAFltSkeds : Boeing states the 752 range at 3,900 nm, 442 nm longer than the max stage route EWR-TXL route of 3458 nm. Boeing states the 753 range at 3,395 nm, on
197 laphroig : Except United already use other non-ER 777 internationally. It is not the aircraft's limitation, but the need for Hawaii capacity.
198 STT757 : With the Hawaii/Pacific flights I would replace the 767-300s and 777-200s with 757-300s and 767-400s, here's what I would do: HNL-LAX 1 757-200 (PW),
199 Cubsrule : Don't the 764s have a pretty nice hard product? If so, it doesn't make much sense to do this - you lose range and would have to change the interiors
200 ScottB : Actually, I would not be shocked to see CO move into UA's space in the T-Gates. It should be possible for them to have two gates for mainline aircraf
201 scorpy : The 6 UA domestic 777 are their newest 777A's, delivered around the year 2000. The mid to late 90s models (13 I think) ply routes between IAD/ORD and
202 United1 : Actually the 772As that UA has configured for two class service are some of the newest 772As that UA has they are all 2000 build IIRC. UA bought them
203 Cubsrule : ...and by the same token, ORD/DEN-Hawaii doesn't require a full aircraft for a round trip. I think it about averages out, at least for our purposes h
204 United1 : ORD-HNL is about the same length as a flight from the East Coast to Europe...16-17 hours of utilization a day which is a round trip from ORD-HNL-ORD
205 Cubsrule : I think we are losing each other in translation - I'm talking about how much aircraft time is actually used to and from the islands, not how many air
206 kgaiflyer : Some years ago, Aloha Airlines submitted a request for slots at DCA. At the time they were flying SNA-HNL(?) and wanted to extend their service eastw
207 ScottB : I suspect that AQ's request for SNA-DCA, though marketed as one-stop service from HNL, was more aimed at tapping into passengers willing to pay a pre
208 kgaiflyer : No other non-stop WAS-HNL services exist, so there would be no other competition on such a route. Yes, I suspect you're right.
209 United1 : Fair enough... True..UA/CO will be operating 7 daily flights this summer between LAX and HNL...there may be a little room for consolidation. That bei
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