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UPS 80's: Clean A/C = Massive Savings  
User currently offlineua777222 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3348 posts, RR: 11
Posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4923 times:

Ran across this ad from the late 80's where UPS declares that they frequently wash their aircraft to reduce drag which saves on fuel which saves on shipping prices the consumer has to pay.

Are they still of this mindset? Mainstream aircraft obviously have to stay in play to make $$ and often washing is only done during heavy mx, if that, but does UPS have a system in place in maybe Worldport to clean their aircraft as much as they say they do?


"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineatcsundevil From Germany, joined Mar 2010, 1182 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4820 times:

Many airlines clean their aircraft more than you'd probably think. Most of it is obviously done at night, probably concurrently with an A check -- so about every month. You can tell which airlines don't keep their airplanes as squeaky clean as others, and it's easy to tell on some paint schemes, white in particular. The easiest to see are the black marks from jetways that form around the front exit or two (depending on the a/c obviously).

It is true that keeping an aircraft clean does reduce drag...however minute it might be, it could save an airline millions. I remember reading an article a couple of years ago about Lufthansa simply running high pressure water through the engines to clean off the dirt once a month or so, and that improved efficiency by something ridiculous like 0.8%, but translated to several million euros in savings. Don't quote me on any specifics of this; I'm just trying to get the general idea across.

As to UPS specifically, I have no idea what kind of washing plan they have...but from a lot of the pics I see on this site, they seem to stay pretty shiny!

[Edited 2010-04-26 04:01:26]


1954 1974 1990 2014 -- Los geht's!
User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20482 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4714 times:

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 1):
I remember reading an article a couple of years ago about Lufthansa simply running high pressure water through the engines to clean off the dirt once a month or so, and that improved efficiency by something ridiculous like 0.8%, but translated to several million euros in savings. Don't quote me on any specifics of this; I'm just trying to get the general idea across.

You're probably thinking of Cyclean: http://www.lufthansa-technik.com/app...ional-Services/Cyclean/Cyclean.xml



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineatcsundevil From Germany, joined Mar 2010, 1182 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4661 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
You're probably thinking of Cyclean: http://www.lufthansa-technik.com/app...n.xml

And you're probably right! Thanks for refreshing my horrible memory...too many hits to the head   

[Edited 2010-04-26 04:44:15]


1954 1974 1990 2014 -- Los geht's!
User currently offlineupsphl From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4199 times:

There's a video on youtube where ups has a 747 going threw a hanger/carwash pretty cool...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk8BhQEuzyI


User currently offlinenycbjr From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4064 times:

Quoting upsphl (Reply 4):

Thanks for that! I needed a good chuckle today! (hate mondays)


User currently offline71Zulu From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3072 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3971 times:

Here's a WN engine wash video,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvdK46bcqzc



The good old days: Delta L-1011s at MSY
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12134 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3852 times:

Maybe UPS needs to show this video to AF?         

Before i retired from DFW, many airlines would was a few airplanes that RON. They inclued UA, CO, NW, DL, and AA.


User currently offline413X3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3581 times:

Ahh the good old days of advertising. That was a great UPS ad

User currently offlinepilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3525 times:

There's a lot of truth to that. Even in a 172 that's bugged up you lose a couple knots of airspeed to drag. While a small difference it's just like everything else we do to save a couple hundred pounds over the course of a flight (idle descents, single engine taxis). One flight isn't a big deal but as you look at a fleet of hundreds of aircraft doing 10 flights a day it really adds up into the millions fast.


DMI
User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3624 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3463 times:

Related question: how do you actually wash a 747? (Or any other airliner.) I watched the video linked above but that's just marketing - somehow I have a hard time imagining there are really guys standing on forklifts scrubbing windows individually (reminds me of the movie Airplane). Or am I wrong?

I would think that you could just build a giant pressure washer and run a plane through it for basic monthly washing with no human involvement at all short of hitting the on/off button.

Also, do they recycle the water? I would guess that however you wash an airliner would use a huge amount of water, and I know car washes generally recycle their water.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlinefly_yhm From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 1681 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3103 times:

First this I thought was someone tell AF. Then I wondered how long it would be before I saw refrence to AF. Anyway I know more UPS aircraft I have seen are usually pretty clean.


Where will you spend eternity? He,s more real then you think!!!!!
User currently offlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5150 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2821 times:

WN uses Pratt & Whitney ecoPower wash service. 1200 washes in 2009, done at 2 Pratt locations. 12 5 million estimated savings. Allegedly reduces egt, so more time on wing, too.

User currently offlineatcsundevil From Germany, joined Mar 2010, 1182 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1868 times:

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 10):
Or am I wrong?

Depends on the equipment available at the facility. I've seen some airlines just use cherrypickers or de-icers and run high pressure lines to wash high places. Other airlines will use forklifts and other devices to get in a little closer. Windows get cleaning based on the airline and aircraft type -- the bigguns and flagships (747s, 777s, 340s, 380s, etc) are more likely to get more frequent, detailed washes. The workhorses of the fleet won't usually get the detailed cleanings, like windows, until a B check every few months. C checks and D checks actually carefully examine each window for any chips, cracks, or faults.

I hope that answers your question.



1954 1974 1990 2014 -- Los geht's!
User currently offlineElevated From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 296 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1801 times:

Not just only from a passenger stand point of having clean a/c means a shiny image, but my airline also utilizes cleaning exterior a/c for a cost savings as well.

It's along the lines of more paint on a plane, more weight on the plane.


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