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AA PEK Route Faces Slot Problem  
User currently offlineHeeseokKoo From South Korea, joined Jan 2005, 639 posts, RR: 1
Posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 18312 times:

http://www.aa.com/viewPromotionDetails.do?fN=beijing.xml&_locale=en_US

AA planned to launch ORD-PEK today (4/26), but canceled due to slot problem. Hope this problem is resolved soon. PEK is huge airport with mega-sized terminals: but not enough runways?

"American has not received commercially viable landing and take-off slots for Beijing Capital International Airport from Chinese aviation authorities."

131 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1071 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 18169 times:

Surely they must have been aware of this at some point before the day of the inaugural flight??


Ryan / HKG
User currently offlineMiAAmi From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 589 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 17817 times:

Any idea when flights will get started?

User currently offlinesurfandsnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2865 posts, RR: 30
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 17613 times:

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Thread starter):
Hope this problem is resolved soon. PEK is huge airport with mega-sized terminals: but not enough runways?

No, PEK has three long, parallel runways that have plenty of spare capacity, especially when it comes to prestigious foreign airlines wishing to serve the airport. The problem is that AA forgot to adhere to guan xi principles (paying off the right people) in order to get what it wanted.

"Despite our expectations, which were based on international aviation industry guidelines and procedures, American has not received commercially viable landing and take-off slots for Beijing Capital International Airport from Chinese aviation authorities."

International guidelines and procedures are widely ignored in China, just as they are throughout the third world, where local customs prevail over Western business practices. Chinese guan xi applies all aspects of society, including business. Foreign companies either play ball or get burned. Had AA wined, dined, and lined the pockets of the right officials, they could have gotten (and certainly still could get) exactly what they want.

Quoting DFWEagle (Reply 1):
Surely they must have been aware of this at some point before the day of the inaugural flight??

If they were a new entrant to the market, I would have cut them some slack. But they have been serving mainland China for several years now (ORD-PVG) and should certainly be aware of the way things work there.



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7600 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 17421 times:

The ORD-PEK flights have been zeroed out through May 4.

Im scheduled to fly this route on May 12th. I hope this is resolved by then.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineflyfree727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 658 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 17318 times:

Too much focus this month on getting the executive bonus checks cut on 4/15 instead of actually focusing on running the airline. This will not be resolved quickly. Maybe the media will cover the CANCELLED notice across the monitor at the gate. Someone needs to be held accountable, but of course, instead, will be rewarded for a job well done.

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 3):
If they were a new entrant to the market, I would have cut them some slack.

I wouldn't. This is supposed to be a world-class global airline with "top brass" being retained financially.


AA ORD


User currently offlineDFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1071 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 17303 times:

AA has been taking booking for this flight as normal and thousands of people have booked their trips to Beijing trusting AA to get them there. I cannot believe that they waited until the morning of the inaugural flight to tell people that they had failed to obtain the slots that they needed. I find it inconceivable that they would not realize earlier that they had no slots.

This reminds me of the inaugural Oasis Hong Kong LGW-HKG flight when they suddenly announced it was cancelled because they had no Russian over flight permit. The difference here is that AA is a well established major international carrier with decades of experience, including years in the US-China market. There really is no excuse for this.



Ryan / HKG
User currently offlinejetBlue From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 393 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 17211 times:

If anyone is in ORD today, go check out gate K12. It was decorated to celebrate the new service. Wonder if they'll use that 777 for a LHR flight and all the paxs will be wondering what all the dragons are for.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 4):
The ORD-PEK flights have been zeroed out through May 4.

I think its zeroed out because its full.

Interestingly AA/eagle recently canceled the inaugural flights to FAR and FSD. Nothing but the best for AA passengers.



We know for you it's not just a seat on a flight to a place. It's a seat on a flight to your life.
User currently offlinecesarv777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 17182 times:

Not good. Not good at all. Did they really just find out today that they didn't have the slots? Just irresponsible and right on trend of not putting the customer first at AA. I was just starting to get some faith in the turn around with their recent aggressive actions (winning with JAL, partnership with Jetblue), but allowing this to happen on such an important route for a global airline is just sad.

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 17166 times:

Quoting flyfree727 (Reply 5):
Too much focus this month on getting the executive bonus checks cut on 4/15 instead of actually focusing on running the airline.

Rather than stating some unintellectual tripe, how about posting something of interest?



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25352 posts, RR: 49
Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 17128 times:

Reading between the lines, it seems to me AA has slots awarded, they just are not the at the commercially viable landing and take-off times.
In otherwords instead of a proposed 155pm arrival and 450pm departure, AA probably got something totally different.

I'm sorry however the global slot game whether at LHR, NRT or PEK in this case works the same. Newcomers cant count on always getting the times they wish.

As someone that has dealt with slots, they can be hard to arrange especially in China if done so outside of the regular twice yearly IATA slot conference process, and even then there is no guarantee you will receive your wished for timings.
I know an airline that operated at PVG for well over a year with times that were not compatible with its home hub connections banks. Choice was either to operate or not as awarded and hope for improvement in future scheduling periods.

I suspect the wait till today was due to AA working actively all this time either trying to arrange alternate slot times such as a swap(if allowed) and also likely had folks like the US Embassy trying to intervene on its behalf.

[Edited 2010-04-26 08:34:29]


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinesurfandsnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2865 posts, RR: 30
Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 17126 times:

Quoting jetBlue (Reply 7):
Interestingly AA/eagle recently canceled the inaugural flights to FAR and FSD. Nothing but the best for AA passengers.

They did?!? What happened there?



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7600 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 17082 times:

Quoting jetBlue (Reply 7):
I think its zeroed out because its full.

No, I got confirmation that they have stopped selling tickets. Its not because they were full.

Quoting jetBlue (Reply 7):

Interestingly AA/eagle recently canceled the inaugural flights to FAR and FSD. Nothing but the best for AA passengers.

Those flights are operating as normal.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32777 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 17074 times:

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 11):
Quoting jetBlue (Reply 7):
Interestingly AA/eagle recently canceled the inaugural flights to FAR and FSD. Nothing but the best for AA passengers.

They did?!? What happened there?

Absolutely not true.

You can even see pictures from the inaugurals here:

http://www.anna.aero/2010/04/13/new-routes-launched-during-6-12-april/

As for what's happening in Beijing, its odd, but this is also China we are talking about. It would not surprise me if AA just found this information out.



a.
User currently offlineflyfree727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 658 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 16993 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 9):
Quoting flyfree727 (Reply 5):
Too much focus this month on getting the executive bonus checks cut on 4/15 instead of actually focusing on running the airline.

Rather than stating some unintellectual tripe, how about posting something of interest?

Well, it is of interest to those passengers that have been inconvienced today, and the THOUSDANDS more who will most likely have their flight cancelled in the near future. It will create a financial hardship, as AA's solution is to simply rebook for later or refund the ticket. Try buying a ticket to PEK tomorrow with the refund AA gives you today. AA has now cancelled this flight thru May 3rd. If I were a passenger and read where AA just rewarded their executives for an excellent job well done, then yes, I would be furious. Why it may seem "tripe" to you, it may be of importance to those passengers, who are now standing in line at gate k12 asking for an explanation as to how AA could allow this to happen. Perhaps they are now questioning the "job well done" by AA.

AA ORD


User currently offlineseamefly From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 317 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 16975 times:

wAAy to go AA !!! 

User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5951 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 16899 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 13):
As for what's happening in Beijing, its odd, but this is also China we are talking about. It would not surprise me if AA just found this information out.

AA is not a new player in China and as UA, DL and CO did not have this issue with any of their China routes think its more likely that this is a screw up, of epic proportions, on AAs part. We do know one thing for sure though any of the non-revs booked on UA851 are screwed... 



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7600 posts, RR: 24
Reply 17, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 16848 times:

Quoting flyfree727 (Reply 14):
Well, it is of interest to those passengers that have been inconvienced today, and the THOUSDANDS more who will most likely have their flight cancelled in the near future. It will create a financial hardship, as AA's solution is to simply rebook for later or refund the ticket. Try buying a ticket to PEK tomorrow with the refund AA gives you today. AA has now cancelled this flight thru May 3rd. If I were a passenger and read where AA just rewarded their executives for an excellent job well done, then yes, I would be furious. Why it may seem "tripe" to you, it may be of importance to those passengers, who are now standing in line at gate k12 asking for an explanation as to how AA could allow this to happen. Perhaps they are now questioning the "job well done" by AA.

Im on the edge of my seat for sure. Im flying this on May the 12th in business. I have a very important meeting on the 14th. I cant miss it.

I called AA and they told me they couldnt do anything about it until the flight is cancelled, which I understand. But I dont want to be protected on another airline, not do I want to fly DFW-ORD-PVG-PEK. I was told if they cancel the flight they would try to send me DFW-NRT-PEK and if they couldnt do that, they would try to send me on KE DFW-ICN-PEK or DFW-SFO/ORD-PEK on UA, but as I said I dont want that.

Now its a nail biter.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25352 posts, RR: 49
Reply 18, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 16743 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 17):
Im on the edge of my seat for sure. Im flying this on May the 12th in business. I have a very important meeting on the 14th. I cant miss it.

I called AA and they told me they couldnt do anything about it until the flight is cancelled

I guess you did not purchase a business class ticket, which would be flexible to refund, or rebook ha?



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinepremobrimo From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 425 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 16689 times:

Canceled til May 4

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Americ...ays-prnews-367623617.html?x=0&.v=1



Now You're Flying Smart.
User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6471 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 16679 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 4):
Too much focus this month on getting the executive bonus checks cut on 4/15 instead of actually focusing on running the airline. This will not be resolved quickly. Maybe the media will cover the CANCELLED notice across the monitor at the gate. Someone needs to be held accountable, but of course, instead, will be rewarded for a job well done.
Quoting flyfree727 (Reply 5):
I wouldn't. This is supposed to be a world-class global airline with "top brass" being retained financially.

First reaction to your posting was, this must be someone who has a bone to pick with American. It appears to be a rant against AA without any solid basis.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 16663 times:

Quoting flyfree727 (Reply 14):
Well, it is of interest to those passengers that have been inconvienced today, and the THOUSDANDS more who will most likely have their flight cancelled in the near future. It will create a financial hardship, as AA's solution is to simply rebook for later or refund the ticket. Try buying a ticket to PEK tomorrow with the refund AA gives you today. AA has now cancelled this flight thru May 3rd. If I were a passenger and read where AA just rewarded their executives for an excellent job well done, then yes, I would be furious.

.

Quoting flyfree727 (Reply 14):
d read where AA just rewarded their executives for an excellent job well done, then yes, I would be furious. Why it may seem "tripe" to you, it may be of importance to those passengers, who are now standing in line at gate k12 asking for an explanation as to how AA could allow this to happen. Perhaps they are now questioning the "job well done" by AA.

Though I disagree somewhat with your comments, at least your comments make sense. I stated "tripe" because you insinuated that all that management were interested in was making a bonus and being guilty of "derelict of duty" so-to-speak.

Management get stock options, etc. and AA's stock has done well the past 12 months. Mess ups happen and if there were people involved in this mess up from AA's side then something definitely should be done (such as firings, etc.).



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineflyfree727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 658 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 16503 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 21):
First reaction to your posting was, this must be someone who has a bone to pick with American. It appears to be a rant against AA without any solid basis.

My point is, this is another example of management "failure" if you will...While I understand the executive bonus concept, its a slap in the face to the actual day to day operation of the airline. AA has internally proclaimed this the most important route start up of the century. And they didn't get it "right". Our customers, for the most part, don't care about anything except getting from point A to point B safely and relatively comfortable at a price they deem afforadable. AMR management has let them down. Yes, please. Lets continue to retain this talent.

AA ORD


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7600 posts, RR: 24
Reply 23, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 16621 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 19):
I guess you did not purchase a business class ticket, which would be flexible to refund, or rebook ha?

Actually the flight purchased was in business class. But if AA isnt going to be flying to PEK it presents a problem. The ticket was $4800 round trip and the other option via NRT was over $12k round trip. Even if I wanted UA, it would cost about $7500. I cant justify that to my company.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineflyfree727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 658 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 16640 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 22):
I stated "tripe" because you insinuated that all that management were interested in was making a bonus and being guilty of "derelict of duty" so-to-speak.

YES!! God forbid there be "sarcasm" on A.net

AA ORD


25 huaiwei : As much as the role of guanxi is true in China (and outside China as well. Even under the veneer of rules and order in HK and Taiwan, guangxi still p
26 MaverickM11 : In fact I'd bet AA wouldn't have had any problem if Congress were less vocal about the yuan.
27 ckfred : If PEK has 3 parallel runways with plenty of spare capacity, why do you need a slot? This isn't LHR, DCA, or LGA with more potential flights than abil
28 huaiwei : Right...so the Chinese retaliates by dissing off an American carrier... How very imaginative. So I suppose the Chinese will next impose a visit ban o
29 Post contains images DFWEagle : AA was allocated a 02:20 AM arrival slot and a 04:20 AM departure slot at PEK.
30 Post contains images commavia : That seems rather close to the actual proposed times AA has been marketing - except 12 hrs off. Were AM and PM lost in translation? Dear God. What a
31 panamair : When May 12 comes around and AA can't fly you because this is still not resolved, they will put you on another airline (e.g., UA) or another routing
32 ADent : What do you want, assume AA ORD-PEK is not flying?
33 LAXdude1023 : To be rerouted via NRT. I dont want to fly on another airlines if I can help it. If I have to fly on another airlines, Id much rather be put on KE th
34 worldtraveler : something is seriously wrong here.... I feel sorry for the passengers and employees involved - and this will cost AA dearly since inaugural weeks of
35 HeeseokKoo : KE does not fly daily to DFW, so you may want to check their schedule first (only Tu Th Sa). Also KE arrives PEK late night (8pm) while UA and CO (as
36 flyinryan99 : When was this awarded? Was this awarded before they announced service or was it awarded just a few days ago? Thanks!
37 Post contains links tpac : So this is interesting: "Instead, Chinese aviation authorities gave American a 2:20 a.m. landing slot and a 4:20 a.m. departure slot in the Chinese ca
38 DFWEagle : AA applied for PEK slots in October 2009 and were informed in November 2009 that these were the slots they had been allocated for the summer 2010 sea
39 mah4546 : I understand selling the tickets in November at slot times AA hoped to get. I would even understand selling the tickets in March 2010. But to wait un
40 tpac : Route was originally awarded to AA back in December 2007 with an April 9, 2009 start. Subsequently AA requested a dormancy waiver to not start until A
41 worldtraveler : ouch.... Did AA not move UP the start time after they announced the service. Is it possible that AA holds valid slot times after May and the period u
42 DFWEagle : Only by a week or so to avoid the inaugural flight happening during the Chinese Labor Day holiday. It was always supposed to launch by May 1st anyway
43 Post contains images par13del : The world is running to China, the negative publicity would have no effect on those who are running to China to do business, it would simply be shrug
44 timberwolf24 : If AA received these slots in November and in 5 months could not get then changed to the times they desired what make anyone think that they will be a
45 rwSEA : Not sure what you mean - SEA-PEK is starting this summer as announced back in the fall.
46 LAXdude1023 : I know. I would be leaving the day before if I would be flying KE. But I dont think Ill get on KE.
47 MaverickM11 : I agree; this is not the first time AA has filed for slots in China, so I'm inclined to believe that this truly caught AA off guard. Wouldn't surpris
48 VictorKilo : Or, alternatively, DL's decision to ask for a delay on the start date for the PEK flight could be because they received a similarly uncommercial slot
49 worldtraveler : if so, then the chances of the route starting this summer are slim. agree ... DL might have realized that they could not get the slots they wanted an
50 Post contains links mariner : I think that statement is open to serious misinterpretation because it suggests flat out bribery, when it is more about respect and the quid pro quo.
51 panamair : SEA-PEK is still on track to start in June 2010 at 5x weekly; what they have asked the DOT for is a delay in starting up the other 2x weekly frequenc
52 worldtraveler : you are absolutely right, Mariner. And it is also possible that if DL didn't have good slot times, they left it to the DOT and State to work on privat
53 mah4546 : So, indeed, does not seem like an issue exclusive to AA.
54 OA412 : Interesting development. I'm sure it will get sorted out shortly. Not the best PR for AA, but they'll weather it just fine. This reminds me of DL's ab
55 commavia : Being unfamiliar with the specifics of this issue, and not knowing a whole lot about the intricacies of navigating the Chinese civil aviation bureauc
56 panamair : Depending on how "real" (I have my doubts) the Chinese inability to find appropriate slots for AA at their requested times, AA and DL have applied fo
57 David31998 : In China, corruption is a way of life at every level, far beyond what most westerners would believe possible. Want your kid to go to the better schoo
58 mariner : Once again, I can only assure you - as in post #50 - that Air New Zealand did not use bribery to get better slot times at PEK. mariner
59 Post contains links LAXintl : Interesting comment from AA regarding the awarded 2am-4am slots. "An American spokesman said Monday that American thought those slots were "placeholde
60 surfandsnow : I don't think that is a fair comparison - New Zealand is a small country that relies on "soft power" tactics, a very different strategy than the U.S.
61 mariner : You may not like it, but it is a direct comparison. Tiny New Zealand may also be at a considerable disadvantage here - why should massive China want
62 1stclass : There are at least 30+ flights in/out of PEK between CX and KA. Can't AA swap a slot with CX?
63 surfandsnow : Because angering New Zealand would probably then anger Australia, which is definitely important to the Chinese as the Australians have many raw mater
64 mariner : LOL. Australia doesn't give a toss what time Air New Zealand arrives or departs PEK. The US didn't think that NZ's nuclear warship ban was all that m
65 bobnwa : Since it appears Delta has not yet received slots for its June 1010 SEA-China service, would you say they are getting close to the point of no return
66 worldtraveler : I would like to know the status of DL's PEK slots.... but there is a difference, though. DL already has PEK slots so they can quickly upgauge their ex
67 qqflyboy : And this is what AA is doing now, or has been doing. They've enlisted the help of the DOT, Department of State and Commerce, the US Embassy in China
68 LAXdude1023 : Perhaps because New Zealand is a tiny country who has virtually no power and who China does not and would not feel threatend by in any way. There are
69 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Well you could have put a "smiley" or written "sarcasm off/on"...its sometimes difficult to tell.... ..but its still up almost 50% y-o-y. There are a
70 mariner : Perhaps it requires an action by one of those people or groups? I don't know the full circumstances here - I doubt anyone does. It is even possible t
71 MaverickM11 : AA has been applying for Chinese slots since starting ORDPVG; this isn't their first time to the rodeo. It's possible AA did something wrong but I hi
72 Post contains links and images mariner : I can only quote the Dallas News: http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...he-trouble-with-getting-takeo.html Dallas News: "Other U.S. airlines current
73 MaverickM11 : No, I'm saying NZ's departure/arrival times are not during hours of peak operations at PEK, as opposed to the time period when the Transpacific North
74 mariner : It still required playing by the Chinese rules to change 'em. It sounds exactly like a conspiracy theory to me. But - all of us are only guessing. My
75 Post contains images B2443 : Compared to Obama's decision to sell $6.7 bln arms to Taiwan, meeting with Dalai Lama, Google and etc, AA's schedule could hardly qualify as some sor
76 goldenstate : I realize this is a sidebar, but I have to respond to this point. The valuation of the renminbi and issues surrounding internet censorship and respec
77 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Who cares? They weren't/aren't really peak times and China's relationship with New Zealand is inconsequential compared to that with the US.
78 mariner : American seems to care. But you seem determined to miss the point. mariner
79 MaverickM11 : What exactly is your point? That because NZ got slots, AA should be able to get slots?
80 kiwiandrew : No , the point which Mariner has re-stated a number of times is that he has provided NZ as an example to refute the suggestion made by some posters t
81 MaverickM11 : I understand that; no one is saying 100% of Chinese slots are due to bribes. On the other hand NZ had less reason to worry about not getting slots be
82 FlyPNS1 : But you haven't refuted that at all. You don't know what Air New Zealand may have done behind the scenes.
83 mariner : LOL. Someone did. Bribery was presented first as an essential of doing business there and then as maybe the only way American could achieve their des
84 seabosdca : Not to mention violate the FCPA here in America, which is something the SEC and DOJ are *very* interested in at the moment. If AA needs to bribe to g
85 qqflyboy : Maybe if the US paid the Chinese the enor Employee Q&A about the delay.
86 LAXdude1023 : What are the odds that this flight will be operating on May 4th as planned? I cant get a straight answer from any of my collegues at AA.
87 Post contains links MiAAmi : Flights now cancelled thru May 24th http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Americ...ds-prnews-2747183699.html?x=0&.v=1
88 LJ : Moreover, DL can call their Skyteam friend in Beijing (CZ) asking them to call the Chinese Minister to figure out a solution. AA doesn't have a Chine
89 mah4546 : I'm hearing that this is a "political" situation and AA has done everything it needs to do appropriately. Also, told Delta is apparently preparing for
90 worldtraveler : I don't suppose any airline is interested in a 2 a.m. arrival slot and a 4 a.m. departure so SWAPPING is not likely to happen. DL might get a slot fro
91 mah4546 : Oh, how lucky Delta is. Because, you know, AA isn't partners with Cathay and JAL or anything such as that. You are making the assumption slots at Bei
92 worldtraveler : I know they have partners, too....and if the slots are transferrable, AA should pursue it... BTW, my original statement was simply that DL already ha
93 Post contains images DFWEagle : Particularly as there are only a handful of flights operating in the 2am-4am window, with the rest of the slots in that period being unallocated and
94 Viscount724 : Unless you serve DXB. There must be at least 30 departures and a siimilar number of arrivals between 2 AM and 4 AM due to the effect of time zones on
95 Post contains images LAXdude1023 : For those of you following my saga, I got rebooked via DFW-NRT-PEK on AA/JL.
96 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Great job.. ......
97 AADC10 : Maybe CA, UA and Star Alliance, who dominate PEK, used their influence to mess with AA to make their flight uncompetitive with UA's ORD-PEK.
98 OA412 : I doubt UA would be stupid enough to mess with a competitor in that way, as AA would (likely and rightfully) be able to take legal action against UA
99 LJ : If AA first received the AM slots and UA/CA are persuading the Chinese not to change those slots, then there is no legal problem and AA wil never be
100 Post contains links HeeseokKoo : AA's late May and June schedule is uploaded as follow. It is 4 weekly only. (copied from http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...r-26-2010-delayed-may-
101 AADC10 : AA would have a hard time showing that CZ and UA used guanxi to have PEK give AA lousy slots and then dragged their feet to give them better slots. C
102 Post contains links worldtraveler : AA's latest press release http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Americ...in-prnews-3881863923.html?x=0&.v=1 indicates they are going to live with the sche
103 LAXintl : Man what a gaffe this turned out to be. I'm surprised they are even commencing the service 4x week with the middle of the night times people have to e
104 Post contains links aa1818 : http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Americ...in-prnews-3881863923.html?x=0&.v=1 As per the press release posted by WorldTraveller, the times of the inbo
105 LAXintl : If you don't mind flying against the conventional wisdom that Asia-USA flights depart in the afternoon/evening and not at the crack of dawn. These sc
106 nyc2theworld : I don't understand how this provides zero domestic connectivity (unless you mean in China). You leave in the evening (just like the flights going to
107 LAXintl : Yes I mean China and where based on todays DL/UA performance a sizable group of folks catch beyond flights to interior cities. AA would be hard press
108 B2443 : Yeah but DL has been doing that for years from NRT to PEK, PVG (conneting to Chinese domestic really sucks anyway) and CAN (stopped now). They all ha
109 AA777223 : Congrats! Enjoy your trip.
110 deltal1011man : For now but DL's non-stop to SEA starts on June 1(assumiong they don't have slot problems)
111 AAExecPlat : Well...at least you have something to be happy about for a while.
112 AAExecPlat : On another note....I just finished reading an article in the Economist that describes that until a week or two ago, relations between China and the US
113 jfk777 : The initial schedule looks very much like the schedule proposed for teh new services to Haneda airport in Tokyo, bloody awful frankly. The July 2 loo
114 Post contains links ORDFan : Looks like this issue has been resolved, according to the Chicago Tribune. Glad to see it, and I wish AA all the best on this new route... http://www.
115 OA412 : Sort of. Those are still pretty awful times, and they are certainly not the times that AA had originally requested. Still, AAs decision to go forward
116 DFWEagle : With the original times, the bookings were looking really promising for this flight, almost on a par with ORD-PVG which is well established now. Given
117 crosswinds21 : This route will go daily as of July 2nd, using the same undesirable departure and arrival times. The new schedule has been loaded as of yesterday.
118 HeeseokKoo : Some days are worse than other days, just like June schedule. AA187 ORD-PEK 2120-2355+1 Tue/Thu/Sat 2025-2300+1 Mon/Wed/Fri/Sun AA186 PEK-ORD 0655-06
119 Post contains images fbgdavidson : Can't be that important a meeting if the only reason you're not willing to be rebooked onto another airline is for a different connection city! Sure,
120 Viscount724 : Hong Kong is still responsible for negotiating their own aviation agreements. I doubt CX/KA would have any influence with PRC authorities over matter
121 mariner : Nothing is impossible, of course, but the laws of probability are very strongly against it. Whereas the simple explanation - Occam's razor - makes se
122 worldtraveler : AA has no choice but to move forward with its PEK plans.... to give in now would send the wrong message. DL starts SEA-PEK in a couple weeks and thei
123 MaverickM11 : Well...well...well, DL has gotten the shaft too it appears. Is this the first daylight Eastbound TPAC? Slot times have been "revised" Flight Departs A
124 panamair : That's a typo...it should say Arr SEA 5:30 AM They are using their regular daily PEK-NRT 8:55am departure slot time for the SEA-PEK flight now. So on
125 MaverickM11 : That makes more sense, although one wonders that time they'd have to depart if they didn't have that PEKNRT slot to use.
126 OA412 : So now one has to wonder what the Chinese government is hoping to get out of this...
127 B2443 : Just hassles, in hopes that AA (or DL, or any other U.S company) would tell the state departement, the white house, DOT that their decisions do affec
128 DFWEagle : Of course, there is the possibility of some unseen political motive involved here. However, the fact remains that the airport infrastructure in Beiji
129 MaverickM11 : That may be true for AA's slot times, but shouldn't have been a problem at all for DL.
130 DFWEagle : I thought that DL applied for slots at similar times to AA? Unless I’m mistaken, AA wanted 1355/1650 and DL wanted 1300/1805. The peak time at PEK
131 MaverickM11 : DL arrives well after the mid afternoon rush, and departs just barely before it. AA is smack in the middle of it. I still don't think it has anything
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