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UA Reports Q1 2010 Results  
User currently offlineual777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1546 posts, RR: 5
Posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8339 times:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/United...t-UAL-apf-1163551424.html?x=0&.v=4

"MINNEAPOLIS (AP) -- The parent of United Airlines says it lost $82 million in the first quarter, much less than Wall Street expected.

The nation's third-largest airline says one key measure of passenger revenue jumped 19 percent compared with the same quarter a year earlier. In fact, UAL Corp. says it turned an operating profit of $69 million.

The net loss worked out to 49 cents per share on revenue of $4.24 billion. Analysts surveyed by Thomson Reuters were expecting a loss of 77 cents per share on revenue of $4.18 billion.

United has been discussing a possible combination with Continental Airlines. Its earnings release on Tuesday said nothing about the talks."

WTG UA!

[Edited 2010-04-27 06:09:09]


It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24732 posts, RR: 46
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8281 times:

Wow -- real upside surprise unlike most its peers which have come in worse then expected.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineual777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1546 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8255 times:

Also from Reuters, cash balance has increased to 3.8 billion up from 3.5 billion.


It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
User currently offlineKFlyer From Sri Lanka, joined Mar 2007, 1226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8231 times:

It seems United will again become attractive for a merger, then..


The opinions above are solely my own and do not express those of my employers or clients.
User currently offlineflightopsguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 348 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8161 times:

According to UAL's press release, unrestricted cash as of 26April2010 is $4.5 billion.


A300-330 BAC111/146/J31/41 B99/1900 CV580 B707-777 DC8/9/10 L188/1011 FH227/28/100 SB340 DO228 EMB2/170 CR2-900 SH330-60
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8075 times:

1-Congrats to UA for a job well done-even during this difficult period.   

2-Here's to the people who for years have been stating "Tilton sux", "Tilton runs the company to the ground while he's cashing out his millions of $$$ in stock options", "Tilton has to go"....etc..      

I've been for years stating that Tilton is doing a tremendous job turning the company around...and indeed he has..  



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4643 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7971 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 5):
I've been for years stating that Tilton is doing a tremendous job turning the company around...and indeed he has..

I think people can see the turnaround, it just took about 5 years longer than it should have. Delta did a complete corporate turnaround and undertook a massive merger in less time than UA has been "turning around". UA has the potential to really be an agressive player but their 3-year bankrupcy was a joke and thus they still had a lot of turning around to do in years following.

Yes he may have turned the company around, but there are many, many people who could have done it faster, better and more effective.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7175 posts, RR: 86
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7696 times:
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Why do you want to merge when your company is doing so much better? Get rid of Tilton, go it alone for a while longer, and keep up the good job. I love that $64 mil. marker they gave themself on the balance sheet due to 'expiring ff miles'. DL did the same thing when they came out of bk while the rest of the legacies count them as liabilities.   

User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2680 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7467 times:

Now that we have all of the US Legacies in, I would love to see a side by side / apples to apples comparison of the 1st Quarter results for UA, AA, CO, DL & US...anyone, anyone, Bueller, Bueller?

User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5929 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7351 times:

Wow UA posts the best results among the legacies and it took less then 10 posts for the people to start posting negative comments.... unbelievable.

Quoting United787 (Reply 8):
Now that we have all of the US Legacies in, I would love to see a side by side / apples to apples comparison of the 1st Quarter results for UA, AA, CO, DL & US...anyone, anyone, Bueller, Bueller?

Operating Profit (Loss)%Margin
UA 69 +1.6%
DL 68 +.1%
US (10)-.3%
CO (51)-1.6%
AA (298)-5.9%

Net Loss (excluding specials)
UA (92)-2.2%
DL (192)-2.8%
US (89)-3.4%
CO (136)-4.3%
AA (452)-8.9%

GAAP Loss
US (45)-1.7%
UA (82)-1.9%
DL (256)-3.7%
CO (146)-4.6%
AA (505)-10%

[Edited 2010-04-27 08:33:11]

[Edited 2010-04-27 08:40:42]


Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4863 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7330 times:
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Quoting United787 (Reply 8):
Now that we have all of the US Legacies in, I would love to see a side by side / apples to apples comparison of the 1st Quarter results for UA, AA, CO, DL & US...anyone, anyone, Bueller, Bueller?

Operating Margin:

AS: +3.1%
WN: +2.1%
UA: +1.6%
DL: +1.0%
FL: +0.5%
US: -0.4%
CO: -1.6%
AA: -5.9%

Operating Margin excluding specials:

AS: +4.1%
WN: +3.9%
UA: +2.1%
DL: +1.8%
US: -0.2%
FL: -0.3%
CO: -1.3%
AA: -5.9%

Net Margin:

AS: +0.6%
WN: +0.4%
US: -1.7%
UA: -1.9%
FL: -2.0%
DL: -3.7%
CO: -4.6%
AA: -10.0%

Net Margin excluding specials:

AS: +1.6%
WN: +0.9%
UA: -1.5%
DL and FL: -2.8%
US: -3.36%
CO: -4.3%
AA: -8.9%


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7013 times:

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 6):
it just took about 5 years longer than it should have.

Given the multiple recessions, oil spikes, etc. UA didn't do too bad of a job...

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 6):
Delta did a complete corporate turnaround and undertook a massive merger in less time than UA has been "turning around".

UA's situation as a lot worse.



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1896 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6947 times:

Surprising numbers from UA, and it's a good surprise. The turnaround is advancing. No need to merge, United!

User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2731 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6833 times:

Great results. It is instructive to compare them with CO's, and then re-read all those comments in the UA/CO merger threads stating things like "why would an incredibly well-run company like CO want to merge with such a basket case as UA?" Or "of course CO's management has to be in charge, and they will dictate the conditions of the merger and blah blah blah..."


AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/AB6/310/319/320/321/330/340/380
User currently offlineworldtraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6049 times:

UA's numbers are good and they are making solid progress which has been evident for several years. Like so much on a.net, people get fixated on something an airline is or has done and won't begin to consider that their viewpoint is not accurate any longer.

UA delivered some very strong results.

Still, it is worth noting that their revenue was significantly boosted (by about 1.6%) by their revenue accounting changes regarding frequent flyer breakage.

UA's revenue increases are well above what other airlines reported by entity. The accounting changes are part of it but there are clearly other things that drove these numbers and I don't know what they are....

ie ... UA reported a 31% increase in RASM on the Pacific and over 25% on the Atlantic plus similar in Latin America... those numbers either indicate that UA was really missing the ball a year ago (I'd have to see the numbers for UA and other carriers for a year ago to see how they did a year ago).

It's good to see UA doing well but when you are reporting increases that large compared to what other carriers have reported, there have to be questions asked about why UA is seeing such large revenue increases - which are well beyond just the accounting changes.


User currently offlineual777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1546 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6008 times:

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 14):


UA's revenue increases are well above what other airlines reported by entity. The accounting changes are part of it but there are clearly other things that drove these numbers and I don't know what they are....

ie ... UA reported a 31% increase in RASM on the Pacific and over 25% on the Atlantic plus similar in Latin America... those numbers either indicate that UA was really missing the ball a year ago (I'd have to see the numbers for UA and other carriers for a year ago to see how they did a year ago).

It's good to see UA doing well but when you are reporting increases that large compared to what other carriers have reported, there have to be questions asked about why UA is seeing such large revenue increases - which are well beyond just the accounting changes.

My guess is the new F/C products and picking up premium pax from other carriers (namely DL).



It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9264 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5985 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 11):
UA's situation as a lot worse.

Wouldn't go that far. Leo and Ron did a pretty good job of f**king Delta up. The biggest thing is DL CLT got alot done in BK and didn't just go into BK to cut the unions. (plus DL cut alot of fat in the network ect ect.)



yep.
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4643 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5957 times:

Not to discount better than historical performance but the airlines in the northeast were HAMMERED in Q1 with blizzards that shut down PHL EWR JFK LGA and BOS multiple times.

Of all of the major airlines, which airline has the smallest interest in the above mentoned airports?... United (I know IAD was also affected but IAD is not as large of a network chunk as say EWR is to CO, PHL to US or NYC to DL)



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineworldtraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5598 times:

Quoting ual777 (Reply 15):
My guess is the new F/C products and picking up premium pax from other carriers (namely DL).

and clearly you are biased - and wrong.

DL's RASM performance was the best of UA's largest competitors at an 8.4% improvement followed by AA at 7.3 and CO at 7.1.

The best regional entity performance for any of these airlilnes besides UA was DL on the Pacific at 17.5%...which again makes it hard to understand how UA had 25-30% increases in all of their int'l regions when the BEST performance by UA's biggest competitors was 17.5%.

So, know, UA didn't appear to pick up revenue particularly from anyone and certainly not anymore so from DL.

Again, looking at year ago statistics might shed some light. It's easy to outperform in one year if you underperformed in the previous year.

Also, UA cut more capacity than other carriers which obviously does drive up RASM - but mathematically does not account for the large RASM increases.

As for costs, UA's cost performance was middle of the pack but DL's cost performance was stronger - showing that DL was able to get costs out as a result of the merger where others were not when working w/ standalone airlines.


User currently onlinecaleb1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 352 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5567 times:
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Really happy for United Airlines. And I still say get rid of Tilton!!!!

User currently offlineBoiler905 From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5549 times:

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 14):
ie ... UA reported a 31% increase in RASM on the Pacific and over 25% on the Atlantic plus similar in Latin America... those numbers either indicate that UA was really missing the ball a year ago (I'd have to see the numbers for UA and other carriers for a year ago to see how they did a year ago).

You make some good points, worldtraveler. I'd also be curious to see what UA's average fare price on their pacific and atlantic routes were 1Q10 compared to 1Q09 because 31%/25% is HUGE.

I would credit UA's Travel Options as another reason the company has brought in higher additional revenue this past year. With their "Spin to Win" campaign traveling around all of their hubs and other cities, it seems they must have had a decent capture rate from that marketing campaign.

IMHO, Mr. Tilton does make a pretty good airline executive. Although the airline's stock has kind of been a roller coaster ride, he seems to be on the right track with constantly pursuing a merger. Mergers are the way to survival and are necessary for airlines to survive the market. As much as I hate to see a decrease in the diversity of airlines serving passengers, I'm starting to accept the idea of more mergers. His only problem has been finishing the deal with another airline.



Boiler Up
User currently offline777-200X From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 30 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5390 times:

I love how all the UA bashers would give all kind of reasons why UA's great Q1 performance should be discounted, from they have smaller hub and presence on the Northeast so was less impacted by the weather to accounting changes on frequent miles expiring. The bottom line is that UA had a great Q1 and that is it.

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5341 times:

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 16):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 11):
UA's situation as a lot worse.

Wouldn't go that far. Leo and Ron did a pretty good job of f**king Delta up. The biggest thing is DL CLT got alot done in BK and didn't just go into BK to cut the unions. (plus DL cut alot of fat in the network ect ect.)

UA's bankruptcy was one not only one of the most (if not the most) complicated bankruptcies in aviation history, but all of US corporate history. Tilton was able to take advantages of laws which no longer exist. He needed the time.

For all the "hate mail" Titlton gets, people should realize UA was going Chapter 7 not too many years ago.

Quoting caleb1 (Reply 19):
Really happy for United Airlines. And I still say get rid of Tilton!!!!

Great, so get rid of the guy after he spent the last 7-8 years fixing a broken company....that's reward for you..  



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24732 posts, RR: 46
Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5271 times:

Revenue wise, I believe United has several good things going for it. Obviously the stabilization and uptick in global economy helps greatly, however there are some factors the carrier is driving.

1- Capacity discipline resulting in less discounting, and ability focus more on higher fare buckets.
2 - Network optimization. Along with #1 above, careful review of routes, aircraft usage and schedules.
3 -Upgraded products particularly focused on premium travelers from IPTE, new lounges, and airport and customer procedures.
4- Strong push to develop and market a diverse bag of ancillary revenues. It helps products like Econ+ generate few hundred additional million of income.

And lastly running a reliable airline. As I learned a long time ago, nothing can be more damaging to passenger perceptions, and more costly operationally then running a chronically late airline. It certainly helps UA managed DOT#1 onetime in 2009.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineual777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1546 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5271 times:

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 18):

and clearly you are biased - and wrong.

DL's RASM performance was the best of UA's largest competitors at an 8.4% improvement followed by AA at 7.3 and CO at 7.1.

The best regional entity performance for any of these airlilnes besides UA was DL on the Pacific at 17.5%...which again makes it hard to understand how UA had 25-30% increases in all of their int'l regions when the BEST performance by UA's biggest competitors was 17.5%.

So, know, UA didn't appear to pick up revenue particularly from anyone and certainly not anymore so from DL.

Again, looking at year ago statistics might shed some light. It's easy to outperform in one year if you underperformed in the previous year.

Also, UA cut more capacity than other carriers which obviously does drive up RASM - but mathematically does not account for the large RASM increases.

As for costs, UA's cost performance was middle of the pack but DL's cost performance was stronger - showing that DL was able to get costs out as a result of the merger where others were not when working w/ standalone airlines.

And what? DL has pissed off a lot of frequent fliers by watering down the Sky Miles program. UA also makes more ancillary revenue per passenger than any other airline. E+ alone is a huge selling point for UA and the elites love it.



It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
25 tommy767 : An airline currently making a turnaround by making smart business decisions. Keep it up UA!
26 RL757PVD : Well if those things had nothing to do with it, we will have to see how Q2 compares.
27 FlyPNS1 : But given the so-called revenue "synergies" that DL was supposed to get from the merger, DL's numbers were weak. They barely outperformed CO/AA...nei
28 panamair : But those pissed off "frequent fliers" are also those that want to pay $600 transatlantic and sit in Business. If those are the travelers leaving DL
29 daron4000 : On the conference call today, UA discussed that they had seen huge increases in revenue from mainland China flying YOY. As we all know, UA and DL (fo
30 ualcsr : Isn't it amazing? And funny how most of the comments seem to come from "fans" of a certain airline. Hmmm. What's really sad and telling about the com
31 worldtraveler : and that does concern me but airlines created alot of bennies for people who aren't necessarily the most valuable customers... DL is moving Skymiles
32 United787 : We don't know for sure, but I would bet my mother that E+ is generating cash for United otherwise we would have seen it disappear long ago like TED..
33 commavia : Really is quite impressive. Although, as I've long contended, notwithstanding low-fare competition, the fundamentals of United's network - particularl
34 worldtraveler : no one has argued with that... but UA has made some major strategic blunders in not taking advantage of its position over the years.... some of it go
35 commavia : UA was never "pretty strong" in New York. CO and DL have both been far larger than UA in the region going back almost two decades. Nothing much to "g
36 huaiwei : If that was UA's strategy, I would say it is absolutely brilliant if it comes to pass.
37 worldtraveler : Again, frozen pensions are still funded... just at a slower rate; that is why the airlines pushed for and got the special provisions. The gov't belie
38 commavia : It was very prudent for United to get out of New York's international market. There was no reason for them to be there. They were never going to be a
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