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Port Authority To Demolish JFK T-6  
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16795 posts, RR: 51
Posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 16243 times:

At today's monthly Port Authority board meeting the board approved Port Authority plans to demolish six cargo buildings and 5 hangars at JFK, they will also demolish T-6 to make way for a future expansion of T-5 to accommodate B6's International arrivals currently housed at T-4.

http://www.panynj.gov/press-room/press-item.cfm?headLine_id=1277


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinen7190jr From United States of America, joined exactly 6 years ago today! , 107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 16070 times:

So will B6's new extension be called T6 or will we see a new concourse on 5 and a possible smaller terminal eventually put in what space is left, or have they not gotten that far yet?

- N7190JR



The Only Way Up is Up: KEEP CLIMBING
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16795 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 16077 times:

It will be an extension of T-5, so it will be T-5.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinem11stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 15844 times:

Is T6 an architectural marvel like the TWA T5 is?


My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4895 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 15738 times:

Yes, T6 was the Sundrome building used by National and designed by I.M. Pei.

User currently offlinephatfarmlines From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1345 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 15629 times:

Hmmm.....B6 said they would never expand beyond 200-odd flights at JFK. With their current gate setup (26 gates, not including T4 ops), if B6 utilized the gates like WN's 10-flight average per gate per day, then theoretically B6 could operate up to 260 flights, however, given the current operational challenges @ JFK, I doubt B6 can pull something off like that.

How many gates could this "T5 extension" add?


User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1032 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 15400 times:

Quoting STT757 (Thread starter):
At today's monthly Port Authority board meeting the board approved Port Authority plans to demolish six cargo buildings and 5 hangars at JFK, they will also demolish T-6 to make way for a future expansion of T-5 to accommodate B6's International arrivals currently housed at T-4.

Any news on what the PA is or is not doing for Delta?

Also, was there any discussion of the proposal the PA made to AA/BA? Did they offer financing for the move and construction?


User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3356 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 15399 times:

Well this is no surprise. B6 wants to move its Int'l ops to T5 from T4. One terminal with an int'l wing for itself and possibly partners.

T6 is obselete and is a space taker. They need a simple concourse with customs beneath it that can accomodate 10 or so gates. Connected to the spacious T5 check-in and baggage claim and you are good to go.

Might I add that the PA has a scheme here to that is visionary. Move Jetblue to the T5/6 area with an expansion there. Move BA to the T8 area with and expansion there. T4 int'l airlines can go to intl T7. T4 has a lot more space for Delta and its expansion.

Just speculating . . . but this is all good news.


User currently onlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8525 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 15363 times:
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Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 7):
Well this is no surprise. B6 wants to move its Int'l ops to T5 from T4. One terminal with an int'l wing for itself and possibly partners.

But what happens to the future terminal plans at JFK when B6 launches its much anticipated bid to take over AA ?   




BTW , it's rather sad that I have to say this ... but yes , I am joking .



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3115 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 15354 times:

JetBlue has all along stated the current T5 is phase I, with Phase II being a hockey stick shaped international concourse extending westward from T5 over the T6 site.

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 3):
Is T6 an architectural marvel like the TWA T5 is?

Not at all



FLYi
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8249 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 14944 times:
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Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 7):
Might I add that the PA has a scheme here to that is visionary. Move Jetblue to the T5/6 area with an expansion there. Move BA to the T8 area with and expansion there. T4 int'l airlines can go to intl T7. T4 has a lot more space for Delta and its expansion.

Terminal 4 is huge, BA's terminal 7 is much smaller and can't take all airlines operating from T4. Delta's solution to its "WorldPort" Pan AM era terminal is to build on that sight. With Jet Blue expanding to the terminal 6 sight with an FIS the best soltuion is for all of BA and OW to move to an expanded terminal within a terminal at AA'sTerminal 8. That would allow for a new building on teh current BA T7 sight for a Star alliance terminal, which should be part of a Jet Blue complex. That would allow for JB & Star to have a massive space on what is currently terminal 5-7. Star needs its own JFK terminal whatever happens with Continetal at Newark, its not as if Lufthansa will stop flying to JFK and move all its New York flights to Newark. Termnal One would become a SKYTEAM terminal as part of a greater Delta complex.


User currently offlinetharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1854 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 14850 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 9):
JetBlue has all along stated the current T5 is phase I, with Phase II being a hockey stick shaped international concourse extending westward from T5 over the T6 site.

If an intl extension was planned all along, then it should be easier to implement now. Are there any sketches of what it will look like, and how it will be situated?


User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1173 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 14769 times:

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 6):
Any news on what the PA is or is not doing for Delta?

Yes at a Crane's meeting in NY(wed 4/28) Chis Ward, Executive director stated the agency is committed to a solution for the New York-JFK terminal facility and considers the project among its highest priorities.


User currently offlineDelimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1496 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 14768 times:

What an odd use of space. That's a lot of valuable JFK real estate to be using for just an expansion.

Of course, money talks, and no one is going to be interested in seriously building out that area, but it really seems pretty short sighted to me.


User currently offlinerjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 14572 times:

Very interesting....Does anybody know what cargo buildings they are referring to that are not used and being knocked down?

Quoting STT757 (Reply 2):
It will be an extension of T-5, so it will be T-5.

T5 is the nicest terminal at JFK, so this is good news.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 7):
T6 is obselete and is a space taker. They need a simple concourse with customs beneath it that can accomodate 10 or so gates. Connected to the spacious T5 check-in and baggage claim and you are good to go.

Yup. Might be a slightly long walk. Will be interesting how they design the expansion.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16795 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 14444 times:

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 6):
Any news on what the PA is or is not doing for Delta?
Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 6):
Also, was there any discussion of the proposal the PA made to AA/BA? Did they offer financing for the move and construction?

No news on either of those fronts, I think it's going to be a while before anything specific is announced. As jfklganyc pointd out, the Port Authority is working on a solution that makes the most sense. It's a logistical challege that is not going to be accomplished as quick as many would like, the clues have been drips here and there, the announcement that BA is possibly moving to an expanded AA T8 and now this announcement that they are planning to expand T-5 in order to move B6's international arrivals out of T-4.

Burried in the board meeting minutes regarding the T-6 demolition is the caveat that the Port Authority reserves the right to use at anytime with short notice the demolished T-6 site as a hard stand parking area for aircraft diplaced from other areas due to airport construction.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16795 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 14408 times:

Quoting rjpieces (Reply 14):
Does anybody know what cargo buildings they are referring to that are not used and being knocked down?

Page 7 of the Board minutes PDF list what buildings are to be demolished;

http://www.panynj.gov/corporate-info...df/board_actions_april_29_2010.pdf



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinewerdywerd From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 560 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 14369 times:

Few Points :

This New International wing being added to T5, is referred to as "T5i" internally. The "i" is for, of course, international. Not sure if this name will stick after it is built.

The number of gates being added is anywhere between 4 and 6. (last I heard)
T5i would strictly be for our international flights since this wing would also have U.S. Customs.

The current T5 was built with T5i (or Phase II) in mind already. So T5 is was built ready to add an extension from gate 27.

Yes, it is very plausible that Aer Lingus, Lufthansa, and other future wide body partners would use T5i as well. But right now these are just rumors. (Yes that means that T5i would possibly be built to handle more than just A320's and E190's)


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6696 posts, RR: 32
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 14318 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 7):
Well this is no surprise. B6 wants to move its Int'l ops to T5 from T4. One terminal with an int'l wing for itself and possibly partners.

T6 is obselete and is a space taker. They need a simple concourse with customs beneath it that can accomodate 10 or so gates. Connected to the spacious T5 check-in and baggage claim and you are good to go.

The big issue, IMO, is whether an international concourse added to T5 would be cost-effective given the constraints on expansion JetBlue faces due to slot restrictions at JFK. They're even giving up a dozen slot pairs to AA in exchange for access to DCA.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 10):
That would allow for a new building on teh current BA T7 sight for a Star alliance terminal, which should be part of a Jet Blue complex. That would allow for JB & Star to have a massive space on what is currently terminal 5-7. Star needs its own JFK terminal whatever happens with Continetal at Newark, its not as if Lufthansa will stop flying to JFK and move all its New York flights to Newark.

It's not entirely clear that Continental/United would be terribly happy with a cross-town competitor in Star Alliance, and JetBlue may be moving toward an alliance with AA. Or they could be moving to a model more like Alaska Airlines where they cooperate with many partners. With ATI between CO and LH, I think we will indeed see more LH capacity shifted to EWR from JFK.


User currently offlinerjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 14039 times:

Quoting werdywerd (Reply 17):
The current T5 was built with T5i (or Phase II) in mind already. So T5 is was built ready to add an extension from gate 27.

I don't know, it doesn't make sense to me to only build 4-6 internationally capable gates. Building out from Gate 27 will result in a weird shape and a long walk for passengers once they clear security.

Ideally, the Port would take care of moving T7 airlines to T8, and build a new terminal where T7 is that can connect to T5. The result would be one large air-side connected terminal that can house a wide assortment of airlines. The current T7 is not the best use of space. If they were re-designing a terminal for the land where T6 & T7 are, they could put a lot more gates in then are currently there. This could free up some space in T4 for Delta to move in there.


User currently offlineBlueman87 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 13555 times:

I think its a smart idea now if they made room for a new Delta terminal


B6 T5 JFK DL T2/3 JFK
User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11948 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 8):
But what happens to the future terminal plans at JFK when B6 launches its much anticipated bid to take over AA ?

I think we'll find out as soon as DL retires its last DC-9   

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 8):
BTW , it's rather sad that I have to say this ... but yes , I am joking .

Awww man!



Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently offlinetharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1854 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11869 times:

Quoting werdywerd (Reply 17):
(Yes that means that T5i would possibly be built to handle more than just A320's and E190's)

what's the largest plane that can be accommodated by the current T5 gates?


User currently offlineLufthansa411 From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 692 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 10937 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 18):
With ATI between CO and LH, I think we will indeed see more LH capacity shifted to EWR from JFK.

Almost all of LH's capacity at JFK is O&D. Shifting that to EWR would not gain them anything, and perhaps might even loose some market share as many pax prefer JFK over EWR. I know I do when travelling through NY.

That being said, I think what we have the potential to see is more focus to secondary German cities through EWR, and also possibly changing many of the US codeshares out of BOS to the new UA out of EWR. With UA and LH revenue sharing across the atlantic, it would make more sense then the current arrangement to use US out of Boston, which does not have a revenue sharing agreement between the two carriers.



Nothing in life is to be feared; it is only to be understood.
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6696 posts, RR: 32
Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 10585 times:

Quoting Lufthansa411 (Reply 23):
Almost all of LH's capacity at JFK is O&D. Shifting that to EWR would not gain them anything, and perhaps might even loose some market share as many pax prefer JFK over EWR. I know I do when travelling through NY.

That being said, I think what we have the potential to see is more focus to secondary German cities through EWR

Adding flights to secondary German cities from EWR would likely take passengers that had been flying XXX-FRA-JFK. But moving flights to EWR would also allow LH to offer a more attractive schedule with a greater number of flights. I doubt they would completely dump JFK, but the long-term LH presence at JFK might look more like their presence at EWR prior to ATI with CO.


25 beeweel15 : Over the years with all the destruction and rebuild of terminals for some reason Terminal 2 always seams to be left out. If they get rid of that build
26 aviateur : That's the old National Airlines building. Designed by I.M Pei. You had Pei and Saarinen right next to each other. Those were the glory days for airpo
27 jfk777 : While smaller Star alliance airline may move their New York flights to Newark, SAA for example, many will continue to fly to JFK as well as EWR. ANA
28 Post contains links and images ramzi : I'm not sure I agree: The terminal is also the winner of two awards in the 1970s. See here. My thoughts exactly. I find it very disappointing this bu
29 707lvr : I guess in aviation-years, T-6 is obsolete. Doesn't seem that long to me. It was actually designed for efficiency in moving lots of people back in the
30 PITrules : One man's junk is another man's treasure. I'm not arguing either way in regards to T-6; but at this time I don't believe T-6 is protected like T-5 wa
31 WA707atMSP : I agree 100%. I think the "land" side of T6 is still beautiful, and gives a wonderful sense of flight. It's a tragedy that the stained glass window a
32 tharanga : For all the beauty and splendor of those pictures, T6 hasn't aged well, and it isn't adequate for today. In real life two years ago, the round space p
33 rjpieces : I feel the same way. I will be sad to see T6 go. I have many memories of flying from there on TWA, America West, Carnival, and, of course, jetBlue.
34 incitatus : The buildings referred to in this document as about to be demo'd are: Buildings 123, 124, 125, 138, 204 and 260 and Hangars 3, 4, 5, 7 and 12. Is the
35 Post contains links STT757 : So far this is the best one I could find; http://www.panynj.gov/air-cargo/jfk-map.html
36 STT757 : Hangars 3,4,5 are the triple hangars FedEx used to use. Hangar 12 is the huge former TWA hangar, right now it's full of items recovered from the Worl
37 707lvr : Very interesting site. I knew JFK did a lot of cargo .,. but Wow.
38 rjpieces : Wow, this really saddens me!!! I will cry when this building goes....
39 PacificClipper : Completely agree. Thanks for posting those wonderful photos. Sad to see the historic, award winning and never to be replicated pieces of Amerca's gat
40 werdywerd : Jetblue will also have Hardstands and De-Icing at the old T6 (New T5i) Site.
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