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Possible UA/CO Merger : Impact On Competitors  
User currently offlineKFlyer From Sri Lanka, joined Mar 2007, 1233 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 8 months 2 hours ago) and read 13812 times:

I believe moderators only paid attention to impact to the involved carriers when creating the official thread. I believe this topic deserves its own thread. Let's continue the discussion !


The opinions above are solely my own and do not express those of my employers or clients.
67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinenetjetsintl From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months ago) and read 13768 times:

Here's the impact I see.... Delta and Northwest get together, followed by Continental and United...

That leaves American twisting in the wind... AA has three options, go at it alone, jump on bed with USAirways (YUCK)...or maybe merge with a non-legacy, Alaska, Airtran, etc.... I hope AA stays away from USAirways, even Alaska would be better... But no matter how you slice it, AA would never be the nation's largest carrier again


User currently offlineIADLHR From Italy, joined Apr 2005, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13706 times:

I am not so sure there is anything wrong with not being the largest. Maybe they can strive for being the best.

In recent years, in many industries, everyone wants to be the largest but no one wants to be the best. The larger some companies get, in various industries, the harder it becomes to manage them .For example, when things go bad, the largest ones get twice as bad. Look at what happened in the banking industry and we will be paying the price for that for some time to come. We can never rule out a variation of that theme in the airlines industry.

I have felt, for a long time, that one recourse for AA, if a CO/UA merger was announced , is to scream loud and clear for the foreign ownership levels, in US airlines, to be raised from 25% to 51%. It is no deep, dark secret that both AA and BA have voiced their opposition to the 25% limit. AA may well make the argument that raising the limit to 51% preserves competition in the UA airline industry. As I have said before, I am not saying the limits will be raised but I do think we will have more dialogue on that idea in order to preserve competition.


User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1481 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 13551 times:

Quoting IADLHR (Reply 2):
In recent years, in many industries, everyone wants to be the largest but no one wants to be the best.

I have never been a fan of mergers. All of the colorful airlines of the Western United States have disappeared. The bottom line is profit for the airline companies. AS is unique, small and turns a profit (not always, but often). AA should invest all of the energy and resources that go into mergers to create a superior product to the megacarriers, continue to refine and develope their route structure and better their One Word partnerships.


User currently offlineworldtraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 13503 times:

of course the AA supporter are going to say that being the biggest is not necessarily the goal - and there is SOME truth to that... but you do have to be large enough to compete w/ your peers. DL is now and UA/CO will become true global powerhouses with very strong positions throughout the globe... AA is not in that league and there is nothing they can do to get there... the merger options remaining don't provide any more opportunities for significant growth.

AA can turn to a BA merger but it doesn't change the fact that in the domestic market, AA will still be far smaller and AA/BA won't be a significant player over the Pacific.

as for UA/CO and DL, they both still have a few things lacking in their networks.
UA (we'll just call it by the name it will be) doesn't and won't have a presence in the SE which is still a very large market region in the US while DL is still pretty weak up and down the west coast.
UA doesn't have a presence in Africa other than one route which DL serves twice a day some times per year.
UA/CO has a token presence in eastern Europe compared to DL's significant presence there.
UA/CO will jump to becoming a major challenge to AA in Latin America; DL doesn't have any (known) options to grow its presence other than by bringing in larger aircraft on existing routes which is going to happen and incrementally adding a few routes.
UA/CO is significantly larger in China/HKG, a challenge that DL will have to and is addressing but they need to move a lot faster by working VERY closely with their Chinese partners.

in just about every other region, UA/CO and DL will be pretty closely matched and will be more than capable of providing very viable competition to each other....
every industry needs at least two very strong players to be very competitive.... DL and UA will be at each other's throats cmopetitively.

It is very good to see TWO major US carriers emerging to leadership positions in the global airline industry. The US has waited a very long time to retake the position of global leadership. DL and UA should both be proud of the role they play and have more than enough opportunities to continue to grow and lead.


User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1116 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 13195 times:

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 4):
of course the AA supporter are going to say that being the biggest is not necessarily the goal - and there is SOME truth to that... but you do have to be large enough to compete w/ your peers. DL is now and UA/CO will become true global powerhouses with very strong positions throughout the globe... AA is not in that league and there is nothing they can do to get there... the merger options remaining don't provide any more opportunities for significant growth.

Nothing to get there? What little imagination you have? They don't have to be the biggest. They just have to be the smartest.

Neither of these mergers have changed the dynamics of the domestic industry. It still works something like this. Southwest/LCC enters a large domestic market/hub, fares drop, the majors cut service or abandon the market. But, that's not all. For the majors, this has historically resulted in other inefficiencies and complexities: (1) A network of RJ operators to small markets that Southwest doesn't serve because the majors still need to feed their hubs. (2) A global network that in most cases just serves to subsidize the losses on the domestic network that the majors incur in trying to compete with Southwest and the other LCC's.

The solution to this problem is not what Delta or United have done or are doing by becoming bigger. It is what Qantas has done in its own domestic and international markets with Jetstar. For Qantas, Jetstar has not been a half-hearted attempt like United's Ted or Delta's song to compete with other LCC's. It has been a serious attempt to compete with LCC's like Virgin Blue on their own terms, not just in the home market, but internationally. In a few years, Jetstar may even be competing head to head with Delta and United on the Sydney route. (My money is on JetStar.)

AA has an opportunity here, to learn from what Qantas has done. They could begin by forming a holding company with either JetBlue or Southwest, with the intent that both would continue to operate as separate subsidiaries with a common network plan. Operating as separate subsidiaries would preserve the cost structure at the LCC, while still providing AA with the feed for its international operations. It would be the ultimate game-changer in the domestic market, something that Delta and United would not be able to match without cannibalizing their own operations to create another Song and Ted.

The presumption has been that a merger between an LCC and a major will not work. It can't work if the major insists on absorbing the LCC and thus changing the economics of the LCC. But, that isn't the JetStar model at all. And, it need not be the model that AA adopts in forming a holding company with any other LCC. So, though AA's options may seen limited to those with little imagination, Delta and United have actually left AA with the best option that was always available. In that sense, AA's best option may have always been in their back yard (Dallas), they just didn't reallize it.

[Edited 2010-04-30 08:49:16]

User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6132 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 13108 times:

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 5):
AA has an opportunity here, to learn from what Qantas has done. They could begin by forming a holding company with either JetBlue or Southwest, with the intent that both would continue to operate as separate subsidiaries with a common network plan. Operating as separate subsidiaries would preserve the cost structure at the LCC, while still providing AA with the feed for its international operations. It would be the ultimate game-changer in the domestic market, something that Delta and United would not be able to match without cannibalizing their own operations to create another Song and Ted.

Oh wow could you imagine the fun getting that past its unions...AA would implode via its unions reaction to that.

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 4):
in just about every other region, UA/CO and DL will be pretty closely matched and will be more than capable of providing very viable competition to each other....
every industry needs at least two very strong players to be very competitive.... DL and UA will be at each other's throats cmopetitively.

It is very good to see TWO major US carriers emerging to leadership positions in the global airline industry. The US has waited a very long time to retake the position of global leadership. DL and UA should both be proud of the role they play and have more than enough opportunities to continue to grow and lead.

Finally something I completely agree with you on WT.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlinenewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 29
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 13076 times:

Quoting DesertAir (Reply 3):
The bottom line is profit for the airline companies.

The bottom line is profit for most companies.  



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineDelimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1513 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 13033 times:

Assuming UA/CO is pulled off well (which I am actually getting pretty confident of, as UA really seems like it's finally firing on all cylinders again), wow, this is going to be fun to watch. Two mammoths slugging it out. UA and DL will be fierce competitors and they will basically compete everywhere.

Fun!


User currently offlineDTWHKG From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 43 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 12732 times:

My guess is DL will have to roll out usable SWU, improve the award availability and fix the award calendar. DL currently has the largest route network, so it doesn't need to improve its FFP to attract loyal flyers. But this will no longer be the case.

User currently offlineba319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8596 posts, RR: 54
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 12682 times:
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Quoting DesertAir (Reply 3):
AA should invest all of the energy and resources that go into mergers to create a superior product to the megacarriers, continue to refine and develope their route structure and better their One Word partnerships

- Very well said and totally agree.

Biggest is not always best, especially in this industry.



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlinenetjetsintl From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 12491 times:

Quoting IADLHR (Reply 2):
I am not so sure there is anything wrong with not being the largest. Maybe they can strive for being the best.

When I said AA would never be the largest again, i didn't meant size is all that matters, but market share matters a lot....

I don't know how to explain it, but I think the biggest looser out of this merging-mania so far is American....


User currently offlinehiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2177 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 12391 times:

AA has far more on their plate than mergers right now....their open contracts are a large stone around the neck....not to mention their huge loss just posted. OneWorld has not been succeeding....JAL may shrink to a regional....BA has their own labour issues not to mention the losses from this volcano. Can't see it getting anything but worse for AA right now.... but later..AirTran is a possible...so is Alaska. Don't forget the emerging Republic as well. Think the B6 agreement will not amount to much in near term. Southwest? Now that is intriguing.

User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5604 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 12145 times:

Quoting Delimit (Reply 8):
Two mammoths slugging it out. UA and DL will be fierce competitors and they will basically compete everywhere.

UA and DL going for each others' throats is the last thing that will happen. The point of the mergers has been to reduce competition and capacity and increase fares. UA and DL will compete in the gentlest possible manner and learn to accommodate each other with a view toward profits. Their claws will show only when they attempt to kill some smaller airline that threatens the equilibrium.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineiloveboeing From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 803 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 12057 times:

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 5):
The presumption has been that a merger between an LCC and a major will not work. It can't work if the major insists on absorbing the LCC and thus changing the economics of the LCC. But, that isn't the JetStar model at all. And, it need not be the model that AA adopts in forming a holding company with any other LCC. So, though AA's options may seen limited to those with little imagination, Delta and United have actually left AA with the best option that was always available. In that sense, AA's best option may have always been in their back yard (Dallas), they just didn't reallize it.

This is a very interesting and fascinating proposal. AA and WN together could reap many rewards, as long as they put the WN management in control of the combined company, as it is likely that the AA workforce loathes their current management.

"American Airlines" could be an international premium product and "Southwest Airlines" could be the domestic product, providing the great service it currently provides. This would be a great way to differentiate the product and still provide great service.

They could have monster hubs in DFW, JFK, MIA and ORD and probably build up LAX. Traffic in these places would be stimulated even further by the low-fares WN would continually provide. Higher level AAdvantage members would have access to Business Select amenities, etc.

I think that would be awesome! Then we'd have even lower fares across the country and the company could still be profitable!


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8632 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 12033 times:
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Quoting Delimit (Reply 8):
Assuming UA/CO is pulled off well (which I am actually getting pretty confident of, as UA really seems like it's finally firing on all cylinders again), wow, this is going to be fun to watch. Two mammoths slugging it out. UA and DL

Possibly an unfortunate metaphor since the mammoth is extinct . Let's hope that UA/CO and DL don't go the same way , sinking under their own weight.  



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineMacsog6 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11475 times:
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Quoting hiflyer (Reply 12):
OneWorld has not been succeeding....

That is a pretty bold statement with nothing to back it up. Have any evidence you'd like to submit other than your opinion? IT, JL, BA, and a few others likely would not share this opinion.



Sixty Plus Years of Flying! "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Saint Ex
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11281 times:

The only thing stopping American Airlines from building a more global network is its own management and nothing more. AA is not in a weaker position by default, its only by its own decisions and refusal to expand where it needs to expand. If AA had the guts to go into more markets in Europe, the Middle East, etc., I have little doubt it can do it. While AA is behind the curve, it is by no means too late for AA to gain a stronger foothold in Asia and other markets.

It has the brand recognition, a strong premium product and five very strong customer bases. The four largest O&D markets in the U.S., in order, are New York, Los Angeles, Chicago and Miami. And Dallas is the eighth largest. Excellent bases, now AA needs to work with that. So far it hasn't done much.

Size doesn't matter - scope of network does. A smaller airline can still have just as wide a network.

[Edited 2010-04-30 16:46:33]


a.
User currently offlineAIRBORNE1 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11240 times:

Quoting DesertAir (Reply 3):

AA, is already out for JETBLUE... WN is planning to snap up Philly/DCA/LGA from USAIR.
Maybe CLT.. I bet withine 2 years this is the plan on both carriers.


User currently offlineFlyWhisperjets From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11031 times:

Quoting netjetsintl (Reply 1):
But no matter how you slice it, AA would never be the nation's largest carrier again

They became #1 only because it was the first two legacy carrier merger......years before they where #3 for the longest time when we had United as #!, Eastern #2 and AA #3.....So I think it is fitting to have United reclaim their top ranking.....UA is going to rock.....   



1st. time Eastern Lockheed L-188, 1st. jet Delta Convair 880
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6936 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10914 times:

Quoting AIRBORNE1 (Reply 18):
AA, is already out for JETBLUE...

Ew I highly doubt that B6 is going to want AA's baggage. Seriously, they acquire B6 and what do they get? NYC? They'll dismantle their entire network and move the B6 320s to DFW to replace the Super 80s. AA just should stay away from mergers. They clearly do a poor job of handling them.



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10585 times:

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 4):
DL is now and UA/CO will become true global powerhouses with very strong positions throughout the globe.
Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 4):
It is very good to see TWO major US carriers emerging to leadership positions in the global airline industry.

Sorry, but that very much remains to be seen irrespective of the quite normal bias expressed. DL is most certainly not, by any serious stretch of the word (other than in certain imaginations) a "global powerhouse" in world aviation, and it will certainly take an substantial amount more than this normal fixation on 'size' to be regarded as in a position of 'leadership'.
Indeed, where exactly are the examples/attributes of either DL/UA-CO taking any role in the leadership of world aviation.....by doing what exactly?


User currently offlineKFlyer From Sri Lanka, joined Mar 2007, 1233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10474 times:

I too agree that a QF/JQ like solution is the best for AA. Obviously the only way for them if they go after being the biggest is merging with US. But I doubt it would be smooth sailing. The best way is to become the best airline. If they do it right, there's a very good chance to be profitable. Being the best is something that would be hard to do for both DL ane UA.


The opinions above are solely my own and do not express those of my employers or clients.
User currently offlineNWAROOSTER From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1159 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9383 times:
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Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 10):
Biggest is not always best, especially in this industry.

   The Titanic was the biggest and everyone knows what happened to the Titanic.   



Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5310 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8944 times:

First, what is holding AA back from any sort of major expansion is its contract negotiations. Until AA has contracts in place and a firm idea of its labor costs for the next several years, it really doesn't have a lot of choice but to sit tight. Remember that the 787 orders don't become firm until AA has an agreement with the pilots.

Second, while the idea of creating a holding company that operates AA and Southwest is interesting, there are two major problems, Chicago and the Metroplex.

The idea of combining AA and Southwest would be to feed traffic between the two carriers. The problem is that in Chicago, AA has a hub at ORD, while Southwest has a large operation at MDW. Southwest is very popular with people who live in the south suburbs or simply find getting to MDW easier, while AA does cater to residents and businesses in the north, northwest, and western suburbs.

You would basically have to move the Southwest operation to ORD, to get the traffic feed. I'm not sure that is feasible.

The same issue holds true in the Metroplex. Southwest is entrenched at DAL and caters to residents and businesses who find getting to DAL easier than getting to DFW. While AA has a modest operation at DAL, you would need to move the Southwest operation from DAL to DFW. That could be a nightmare, considering that AA already has a massive operation, using all of Terminals A and C, a significant portion of D, and a chunk of B.

Of course, this issue could very well be moot, if the UA and CO don't do the deal, which is still possible, or the Feds nix the deal, which is more likely than the deal falling through. The Obama administration, while somewhat open to ATI deals, such as AA-JL and AA-BA-IB, is probably less inclined to let UA-CO go through. By the time the Obama administration came into place, the NW-DL deal was fairly far along in terms of government review. UA-CO will be reviewed from start to finish by the current administration, and I'm not sure this one will get a green light. Both carriers seem fairly healthy, as compared to DL and NW.

And you can be pretty certain the members of Congress will be looking into the matter, if they think their states will suffer, such as the potential of closing the CLE hub.


25 Post contains images CIDflyer : I have a feeling that if it benefits the Chicago region in this merger, the Obama administation will pass this through As far as AA is concerned, it
26 mayor : Exactly......I don't think AA would EVER be able to get this past their unions.
27 Julian773 : I think that would be a good thing to do. I mean what´s a better option? Go with US ? No. Go alone ? No. I totally agree. Maybe AA profits by the DL
28 Delimit : Seriously. Of the big [soon to be] 3, AA flies more mainline because of their scope with the pilots. Do you think these same pilots who object to reg
29 DTWLAX : DL has a partnership going with AS which is pretty strong on the West coast. Will have to wait and see how well it goes between the two. Being big do
30 Airport : Absolutely. I'd rather own a little regional carrier steadily making a profit of $2,000,000 a year rather than a global giant losing hundreds of mill
31 DTWLAX : The text I quoted referred to global leadership, not US legacy leaders.
32 Post contains images Airport : Oh, whoops, I misread. My apologies. Cheers! Anthony/Airport
33 mayor : I think what's missing in all this is the fact that I don't think that DL planned or even cared if they would become the world's largest carrier after
34 avek00 : 1. DL/NW was long approved and the merger closed before Election Day 2008. The Obama Administration had no part in the review of DL/NW. 2. The Obama
35 STT757 : IAD , while not an ideal solution, can connect much of the Southeast with the Northeast and Mid-West just as easily if not easier than CLT and ATL. T
36 worldtraveler : In a network business, SIZE DOES have advantages. It is a copout to say that you don't want to be the largest - just the best. The goal is to be BOTH
37 DFWEagle : AA has 18x daily non-stop flights to Heathrow in summer (5xJFK, 4xORD, 3xDFW, 1xMIA, 1xLAX, 3xBOS, 1xRDU). They will be adding a 6th JFK-LHR soon, th
38 United1 : Small correction... UA flies to SYD and MEL That would be problematic not only would a potentially hostile takeover cause some rather significant iss
39 STT757 : And CO flies to Cairns from Guam, so a CO/UA would serve three Australian destinations.
40 OA412 : Easier how? All 3 are fairly efficient airports, but ATL and CLT are FAR better positioned to work as Southeast US hubs than is IAD. For the most par
41 worldtraveler : CO and UA do not have a SE hub; you can't connect southeast to southeast traffic through a hub outside of the region when other carriers (DL and US)
42 Cubsrule : I really don't know that either DL or AA needs AS that much, though. If AS liquidated, I think there are assets that both would be interested in, but
43 Viscount724 : A goal that's never likely to be achieved. When has the largest company in any indusry ever been the best? Never in my experience, and certainly not
44 MasseyBrown : Neither company has been profitable and neither company could afford a bruising competition. A route here and there, tit for tat I can see, but until
45 alwaysontherun : Being a non-American, never even having flown US airways, could somebody please explain what´s so wrong with US and why it is unlikely that AA would
46 worldtraveler : good point.... UA does become larger in Australia relative to DL but still is nowhere near the size of DL in Africa.... It is still fair to say that
47 Cubsrule : Why does DL need AS? Is it necessary to be big everywhere to succeed?
48 KFlyer : @worldtraveler With respect, larger is never the best. In airline industry, it will only make the carrier harder to manage. Coming with a whole lot of
49 sccutler : This silly talk about AA & WN combining... why in God's name would Southwest want to own a carrier like AA? Nothing there makes sense. --- As for
50 CALPSAFltSkeds : I could see UA/CO further expanding at GUM. There's a military buildup there. If UA/CO took a few 752s, now they will have more as lots of UA 752s ca
51 MasseyBrown : None of these airlines is known in recent years for cutting fares. They may respond to other fare cuts, but they don't initiate anything. They compet
52 worldtraveler : network carriers have historically not been known for cutting fares but that doesn't mean they don't compete aggressively.. corporate contracts are n
53 klyk1980 : For Asia and Australia...I believe AA needs to give hands to UA/CO and DL/NW. Remember UA/CO still have a very strong alliance partner for transpacifi
54 elbandgeek : An interesting thought I just had. IAH will pass up ORD as the combined UA's largest hub, but at the same time, WN is adding new flights to MDW that w
55 cws818 : So the past 10 years means that AA cannot grow in the future? That is a bit simplistic, no? It already is and always has been.
56 OlympicATH : EWR-ATH is back to year-round service, although it only flies 3/4 weekly during the winter. OA has dropped JFK and the new OA/A3 will join Star soon
57 Seatback : Never say never. We have yet to see if the merger mentality translates into true successes. Things rapidly change. Twenty years ago, would you have e
58 deltal1011man : Yea i would just LOVE to see what the APA would say on this one "Oh hell no" No it wouldn't.....why? because the unions would kill it before it got o
59 Commavia : Get used to it, and try not to act surprised. You're going to be hearing a lot more of it - how this is the end of the road for AA, it's all coming a
60 Cubsrule : Why do they need that? So WN and VX can bleed them out?
61 deltal1011man : WN and VX don't, and i wouldn't expect them to, fly to Asia. Oh and I don't think VX doing LAX/SFO-SEA is going to send DL/AS right into BK. DL deals
62 Cubsrule : ...and neither does AS. Buying AS does nothing to increase feed from AS to Asia at SEA and doesn't do much to increase the feed at LAX - nor does DL
63 deltal1011man : and you lost me. Buying AS gives you a hub to over fly NRT and make money doing so. BS. If there was no benefit at all none of the Big carriers would
64 Cubsrule : They already have that because AS already feeds them TPAC passengers at SEA (and PDX and LAX, to a lesser extent). No merger is necessary to pick up
65 deltal1011man : because at some point your giving money away. OH and your screwed crapless if AMR buys AS. Matter of fact i bet someone would be on the streets if th
66 fxramper : It's speculative at best to truly understand how the proposed merger of CO and UA will impact competitors. Ultimately, CO/UA will have to cede frequen
67 Cubsrule : I see no problem with it. Would Delta make money on those legs? If not, then they are in an ideal situation. Sure - and that may be a different matte
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