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BACityflyer Routes Outside Of LCY  
User currently offlineNQYGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (4 years 3 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4658 times:

Many airlines across the world work alongside their regional subsidiaries/partners at main hubs with smaller aircraft, to supplement mainline flying on thinner routes, or on ones that generally benefit from smaller aircraft.

We all know BA has BACityflyer, operating exclusively from LCY to numerous domestic and European destinations.

Potentially, could BACF ever operate any of the current mainline routes from LHR? BMI Regional do similar things for BD out of LHR- on the MAN/ABZ routes, etc.

I'm going to take a stab and say there are plenty of union agreements that'd stop this.. but worth asking all the same.

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLHR380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4624 times:

Quoting NQYGuy (Thread starter):
Potentially, could BACF ever operate any of the current mainline routes from LHR? BMI Regional do similar things for BD out of LHR- on the MAN/ABZ routes, etc.

No

Different contracts for one thing, and why introduce BACF flying when BA mainline operate it it very well from LGW/LHR


User currently offlineGT4EZY From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 1781 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4609 times:

I don't think contracts have anything to do with it. However, LHR slots are, as we all know, very valuable and maybe placing smaller aircraft there using these slots wouldn't be the best thing to do.

Potentially BACF could operate out of airports such as MAN (which incidentally and ironically is where BACF has it's HQ) but Cityflyer has always been developed around LCY and with LCY in mind.



Proud to fly from Manchester!
User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2963 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4568 times:
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Well since BA value EVERY slot and have reduced European and Domestic services to the very core (Just Manchester/ Glasgow/Edinburgh/Aberdeen and Newcastle remain of a once extensive domestic network ) there are virtually NO routes that would benefit cost wise by being operated by BACF out of LHR.

The BA mainline A32x fleet is sufficiently flexible to cover capacity fluctuations through the daily schedules with the few remaining 757s shuttling down to the southern hub at Madrid and for a very select routes having the 763 used mainly for the freight capability.

Anyway BACF have just 10 aircraft to cover their existing LCY schedules not exactly much spare capacity.

They are operating several weekend charters to coming summer from Scotland and Manchester to cover the downtime .


User currently offlineNQYGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3747 times:

Oh no, well fine.. I wasn't really sure and was just seeing whether it'd ever be possible.

Thanks for the replies.


User currently offlinedalce From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1677 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3237 times:

I believe AMS has seen a couple of BCAF charter flights AMS-RAK and v.v. lately.
So on charter basis they do operated outside of their box called LCY.



flown on : F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,319,320,321,333,AB6.
User currently offlinenighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5127 posts, RR: 34
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2893 times:

BA used to have a subsidiary called BA City Express, which did exactly what you suggest - operate domestic and thinner european routes from the regions. BA sold them to flyBE a few years ago, keeping only the LCY services, which were relaunched under the BA CityFlyer name.

BA sold off City Express as it wasnt profitable enough, so why would they now choose to return to the regions? Besides, the sale to flyBE may include conditions restricting BA from returning to the market.



That'll teach you
User currently offlinedanfearn77 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 1811 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2865 times:

Is it mainline BA that operates MAN-BLL?


Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
User currently offlineLHR380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2808 times:

Quoting danfearn77 (Reply 7):
Is it mainline BA that operates MAN-BLL?

Sun Air operate that.


User currently offlinedanfearn77 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 1811 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2807 times:

Quoting LHR380 (Reply 8):

Ah yes of course they do! Forgot about that one. On a Dornier 328 isnt it?



Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
User currently offlineNQYGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2794 times:

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 6):
BA used to have a subsidiary called BA City Express, which did exactly what you suggest - operate domestic and thinner european routes from the regions. BA sold them to flyBE a few years ago, keeping only the LCY services, which were relaunched under the BA CityFlyer name.

BA sold off City Express as it wasnt profitable enough, so why would they now choose to return to the regions? Besides, the sale to flyBE may include conditions restricting BA from returning to the market.


My original question wasn't regarding BACF ex regional airports, it was regarding whether it'd ever operate ex-LHR to supplement BA mainline; similarly to how the likes of KLM Cityhopper shares the same routes with KL mainline ex-AMS.


User currently offlineGLAGAZ From UK - Scotland, joined Feb 2004, 1982 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2584 times:

They are doing GLA-FAO, AGP, BCN and maybe more? Only summer charters though  

Gaz



Neutrality means that u don't really care cos the struggle goes on even when ur not there, blind and unaware
User currently offlinegkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24913 posts, RR: 56
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2571 times:

Quoting GLAGAZ (Reply 11):
They are doing GLA-FAO, AGP, BCN and maybe more? Only summer charters though

Who would have thought you'd ever see BA flying internationally from Scotland ever again?  



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineACES320 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 393 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2436 times:

LCY is a very expecific and concentrated business segment. Operting off LCY in this context would be odd from a business perspective. Of course it would be feasible but BACF capacity at London City is high-yielding and better deployed as it is on their network. As mentioned by nighthawk BA axed all of their regional operations when they sold off BA City Express. They had massive operations from BHX and MAN but it simple regional does not fit the BA model as a strategy, let alone operating it from business oriented LCY.


LHR, BHX, EDI, BKK, USM, CNX, PHU, GRU,PEI, BOG, CTG, CPH, AMS, DOH, DXB, FRA, MAD and always PEI
User currently offlineLX138 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2009, 391 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 months 1 day ago) and read 2398 times:

Quoting NQYGuy (Reply 10):
My original question wasn't regarding BACF ex regional airports, it was regarding whether it'd ever operate ex-LHR to supplement BA mainline; similarly to how the likes of KLM Cityhopper shares the same routes with KL mainline ex-AMS.

No, because its not the business model of BA to do it. One thing the model is based on is utilising LHR as a major competitive advantage - by using it as the carriers single hub, and because slots are scarce, its simply not viable to have regional aircraft using slots that could be more efficiently used for a 744 service to XXX.

Quoting NQYGuy (Thread starter):
BMI Regional do similar things for BD out of LHR- on the MAN/ABZ routes, etc.

Nah they don't really, those are operated by mainline. The regonal jets only come in on the weekends when they opt to use a few Airbuses for charter work.

Quoting NQYGuy (Thread starter):
I'm going to take a stab and say there are plenty of union agreements that'd stop this.. but worth asking all the same.

There probably would be moans if it happened.

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 6):
BA sold off City Express as it wasnt profitable enough, so why would they now choose to return to the regions? Besides, the sale to flyBE may include conditions restricting BA from returning to the market.

I'm sure they would consider it in the future to grow the business. Doubt there are any restrictions, although BA having part ownership of FlyBe probably satisfies any presence in the regions for the time being.



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User currently offlinebwaflyer From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 689 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 months 1 day ago) and read 2381 times:

Quoting LX138 (Reply 14):
Quoting NQYGuy (Thread starter):
BMI Regional do similar things for BD out of LHR- on the MAN/ABZ routes, etc.

Nah they don't really, those are operated by mainline. The regonal jets only come in on the weekends when they opt to use a few Airbuses for charter work.

bmi mainline wet lease Embraers and flight crew from bmi regional to operate LHR-HAJ and LHR-ABZ. ABZ operates now and again on Airbus equipment when the Embraers go tech. So technically these are mainline routes operated by mainline using wet leased equipment from regional. BTW, under the current LH approved business plan, you won't see Airbus charters during the week, and only a small handful of charters at the weekend, certainly no where near the number that were operating last Summer.


User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2072 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 months 20 hours ago) and read 2225 times:

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 6):
BA used to have a subsidiary called BA City Express, which did exactly what you suggest - operate domestic and thinner european routes from the regions. BA sold them to flyBE a few years ago, keeping only the LCY services, which were relaunched under the BA CityFlyer name.

BA sold off City Express as it wasnt profitable enough, so why would they now choose to return to the regions? Besides, the sale to flyBE may include conditions restricting BA from returning to the market.

CityFlyer Express was a LGW based carrier, that operated as a BA franchise carrier. Originally it used the ATR-42 and Atr-72 in BA colours, then it started adding the Avro RJ100 (eventually ending up with 16 aircraft). CityFlyer Express started taking over routes that BA couldn't operate profitably itself, including some that were moved over from LHR to free up slots there (LGW-LUX being an example).

BA then acquired CityFlyer Express and integrated it with the EuroGatwick shorthaul operation. A reorganisation of BA Regional (operating primarily out of MAN/BHX) saw the Avro RJ100s move to that operation and Being 737-500 aircraft move to LGW. BA Regional was then merged with British Regional Airlines (another franchise carrier acquired by BA). The new carrier was called British Airways CitiExpress. This in turn became BA Connect when the BoB cncept was introduced, and it was this that was sold to Flybe. Some of the Avro RJ100 were used by BA Connect to launch flights from LCY. When BA Connect was taken over by Flybe a new company was set up to operate the LCY flights. This was BA CityFlyer.

I think you'd only see BA CityFlyer operating regularly from LGW or LHR if BA ordered more Embraer aircraft. A route such as LHR-LUX would be an ideal flight to be operated as such. However, it would be a waste of LHR slots for BA to use such a small aircraft from LHR. LGW could be a different matter. Though the 734s are staying in the fleet for a few more years, maybe BA will consider some Embraers for thinner routes ex-LGW. If it did that though I'd expect they'd be operated by LGW crews rather than through BA CityFlyer.



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