Jetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2661 posts, RR: 36 Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7752 times:
If they have been talking for over a year and a half and nothing has happened, I don't think it's coming soon. That is longer than merger discussions take.
sasd209 From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Oct 2007, 633 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7754 times:
"in talks for a year and a half"??
I'm not quite sure what can be so complicated as to require talks for 18 months...or why this is news if talks have been going on for that long, unless they've kept it under wraps for that long?
atrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5613 posts, RR: 54 Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7710 times:
I always thought ICT would be a good market for WN.
Automatic access to DAL due to Wright Amendment, as Kansas falls under the agreement.
Would lower fares in the ICT-Dallas Market which in itself is big.
Can fly to LAS, PHX, MDW or STL for more connections. Maybe even a ICT-BWI flight perhaps? ICT-MCO. Already thats over 10 flights that WN is usually known for starting out with.
I see a lot of pros in starting ICT for WN.
Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
MrSkyGuy From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1203 posts, RR: 3 Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7686 times:
Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 2): If they have been talking for over a year and a half and nothing has happened, I don't think it's coming soon. That is longer than merger discussions take.
I'd have to agree with Matt.. this looks like something Wichita would like to see more than WN would. But who knows.. in time, it may eventually be worthy enough of WN's light attention.
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
LV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 1810 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7676 times:
I think it's interesting that the article says WN wants $3 million in subsidies up front. Subsidies are not something I traditionally associate WN with... but I guess PFN is a game changer.
I think it's interesting that the article says WN wants $3 million in subsidies up front. Subsidies are not something I traditionally associate WN with... but I guess PFN is a game changer.
My thoughts as well. But good to see the LCCs venturing out from their traditional bastions...
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22716 posts, RR: 88 Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7636 times:
Quoting LV (Reply 6): I think it's interesting that the article says WN wants $3 million in subsidies up front. Subsidies are not something I traditionally associate WN with... but I guess PFN is a game changer.
I thought Southwest just turned down $15 million from CAE?
QANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1803 posts, RR: 2 Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7444 times:
Yeah, yeah, yeah... WN is ALWAYS looking at markets to serve. And you can't find out about a market unless you talk to the airport/city people themselves.
But....... this REALLY caught my eye:
Quote: Southwest wanted to announce the Wichita service in December and begin it in June, the source said. But officials couldn't come up with the money in time to meet an October deadline, he said.
Now, there's a new deadline of September for service to begin in June 2011, the source said.
That is the most definitive thing I've ever heard from a "WN is looking to serve XXX" article. That is the exact timeline that WN uses to announce service and then start service. I wonder if ICT was actually really that close to happening?
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
justplanenutz From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 428 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7240 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 8): I thought Southwest just turned down $15 million from CAE?
That article does not describe the full situation. The $15 million are state incentives that could be available for ANY airport in S.C., but just CAE. So while WN did turn down CAE, they are very much considering CHS and GSP.
KcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3629 posts, RR: 7 Reply 11, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7146 times:
Are we all talking about the same ICT that pays FL to fly there? This airport has to PAY FL ANNUALLY to keep them. How much cash would WN need to make it work? 20, 30 million a year?
justplanenutz From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 428 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7091 times:
Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 11): This airport has to PAY FL ANNUALLY to keep them.
That is an interesting parallel to what is currently happening in S.C. FL asked CHS for $2mm per year to continue service there, which CHS declined. So FL ended service in December. Now CHS is willing to pay WN much more to start service.
I wonder if is ICT is looking to "trade up" as well.
Packcheer From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 323 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6367 times:
Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 13): Maybe they're trying to catch up with RDU in the revenue guarantee game (LHR).
That's not quite an accurate comparrison. The way I understand it (having lived in Raleigh for 20 years) The subsidies at RDU are being paid by Glaxo Smith Kline and some other companies in the area to stay connected to LHR. The amound that RDU actually pays in the deal is small (if any).
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21242 posts, RR: 19 Reply 15, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6145 times:
Quoting atrude777 (Reply 4): I see a lot of pros in starting ICT for WN.
Besides collecting massive subsidies, what are they? Wichita is about 600,000 people. The last market that size WN started was RSW, which has a lot of inbound tourism. The market before that that size that WN started was ALB, and that was more than 10 years ago and arguably served twice as many people.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4721 posts, RR: 15 Reply 16, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6036 times:
Talks, shmalks -- happens constantly, all over the country, probably currently in over a dozen cities -- means nothing. Of course these days, the new element in these talks is how much money the destination is willing and able to give WN to see Canyon Blue on their tarmac; quite the game changer!
We should probably just start an on-going thread here on A.net: "Who's Courting WN This Week?"...
wedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5529 posts, RR: 5 Reply 17, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5825 times:
ICT is barely able to supply people to FL with 3X daily 717's to ATL and a seasonal-weekly to MCO with subsidies. I hardly doubt Sedgewick County and the City will be able to fork over too much more taxpayer money to support unrealistic air service. WN is not the airline to flying 2X to 4X daily to a specific destination...it's more like 8X to 10X daily, except longer haul traffic...in most cases. WN has much larger markets they could make PROFITS from.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22716 posts, RR: 88 Reply 18, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5780 times:
Quoting justplanenutz (Reply 10): The $15 million are state incentives that could be available for ANY airport in S.C., but just CAE. So while WN did turn down CAE, they are very much considering CHS and GSP.
That puts a different light on it, thanks. And - to be sur e- it is available to any airline, not just to Southwest?
Jetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2661 posts, RR: 36 Reply 19, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5653 times:
I know WN @ OKC and TUL get a considerable amount of feed from the ICT/Southern Kansas/Northern Oklahoma region. A lot of those people I have talked to said they don't mind the 2 hr+ drive to get a good WN fare to where they are going.
mtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2121 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5648 times:
Quoting SANFan (Reply 16): We should probably just start an on-going thread here on A.net: "Who's Courting WN This Week?"...
LOL, that is true. Reminded me of when I toured thru the schedule planning dept in DAL just before ALB was announced. There were shelves of proposals and marketing material binders from sooo many cities and towns around the nation. Some that I knew had no chance at WN service.
The one that sticks out in my mind right now was seeing promo material notebook from Modesto,CA. I remember my thought at the time was 'why did they ( MOD folks) waste their time doing that'. But, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
MrSkyGuy From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1203 posts, RR: 3 Reply 21, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5569 times:
Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 19): A lot of those people I have talked to said they don't mind the 2 hr+ drive to get a good WN fare to where they are going.
Count me amongst them.
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
justplanenutz From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 428 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5513 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 18): . And - to be sur e- it is available to any airline, not just to Southwest?
wedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5529 posts, RR: 5 Reply 23, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5308 times:
Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 19): I know WN @ OKC and TUL get a considerable amount of feed from the ICT/Southern Kansas/Northern Oklahoma region. A lot of those people I have talked to said they don't mind the 2 hr+ drive to get a good WN fare to where they are going.
There are a lot of people in the Wichita area that like to gamble. One of the best things that happened to ICT was G4's introduction of service to LAS. Ironically enough, G4 at that time was the smallest airline at ICT with the largest aircraft. AA still had F-100 service to ICT. But G4 only had four destinations in its network including FAT, COS and LAS...with a single MD-80.
My wife and I flew on G4 the 2nd week of operations at ICT with a roundtrip fare of $120 each. It's back when most things were free including softdrinks and juices. They had another cart that more enhanced snacks and games.
ICT saw a lot of charters covering for G4 when they were small including Casino Express 737-200's and Sierra Pacific 737-200's.
tyler81190 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 56 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4862 times:
I don't see why FL is even there... ICT and SG county are wasting tons of money keeping an airline there that is essentially a mirror to DL service there. WN should stay out, AA already has ORD, DFW, and STL tied up. I see no reason to bring W into the mix, actually I think FL should be booted, and give DL more $$ to subsidize fares, or to bring in more daily flights, as all of their loads out of there are at least 95% full, not to mention the face capacity is being reduced due to F/C being installed on all flights in/out of ICT on the CRJ700's...
25 KcrwFlyer: I'm well aware, but I like to poke fun at it all the same. There are some folks from RDU on here I like to make happy ..haha Subsidies Low fares. The
26 LV: To what degree does cargo play a role in picking a new station? I know it seems WN handles more cargo domestically then any other pax airline. I know
27 mtnwest1979: STL is done/ending soon though. I would think ICT service would be just about the same as OMA service. I can't see wichita as a location that WN woul
28 rangercarp: I hope this turns out to be a pipe dream. WN service would most certainly be the death knell for both air tran and frontier in Wichita. Those two have
29 N200WN: I don't see why taxpayer money should be given to any airline to start service. Let the free market rule and let the taxpayer money be used to improve
30 Cubsrule: The last of the STL Connection service ended on April 4. OMA is a fair bit bigger, isn't it? Furthermore, those population numbers are a bit misleadi
31 Flygirl747: I heard from a friend whose girlfriend works at Southwest that she heard that WN really does want to start service in Wichita. If they didn't, it make
32 Jetmatt777: I have a friend whose friend's father-in-law's mother who knows someone who works at..... we know it goes. If WN REALLY did want to start service, th
34 flygirl747: Jetmatt, I hate to drag on my comment any more, but I think you are missing the story here. Southwest has already offered to start service to Wichita.
35 Kcrwflyer: What if the states/cities voted on it? I really really have a hard time believing this. It doesn't actually say that anywhere in the article. Matter
36 MrSkyGuy: Which to me indicates that SWA is looking for a subsidy because the service itself doesn't align well with their research on PAX demand. In time, per
37 Jetmatt777: WN was probably throwing Wichita a bone. Southwest: "Yeah, we'll start service....how much money do you have?" ICT: "How much do you want?" Southwest
39 SANFan: I don't really know if this is news or not -- probably nothing really -- but I just saw this posted today.
40 SANFan: Apologies. The preceeding post was not anything close to the preview I saw before I posted it. Here at least -- I hope -- is the link to the actual ar
41 lv: Seems between the possibility of ICT along with PFN (ECP), CHS and GSP that WN is getting into the subsidy chasing game. That surprises me as subsidie
42 SANFan: WN -- the NEW WN that is -- certainly is in the subsidy-drilling business these days. The new WN is also now considering small markets and much less
43 GSPSPOT: Correct about PFN, not correct about GSP, CHS. Although there was much wrangling in the S.C. state house about an incentives program, Southwest made
44 ScottB: I suspect the confusion lies in the specific limitations on subsidies that may be provided to airlines. If memory serves, the specific authority/agen
45 txagkuwait: I'm not convinced that WN is "chasing" subsidies but I tend to think that in these turbulent economic times, they are looking for ways to reduce risk.
46 Cubsrule: GSP is about the size of ALB and CHS is about the size of RSW with a big tourist component (just like RSW). Aside from ECP, I don't see much new ther
47 ginger727: Here's another recent article about Wichita's efforts to attract WN to town, from Sunday's Wichita Eagle: http://www.kansas.com/2010/05/30/133...y-cou
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 50 posts, 
From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Oct 2007, 633 posts, 
From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22716 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
