sasd209 From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Oct 2007, 638 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8206 times:
"in talks for a year and a half"??
I'm not quite sure what can be so complicated as to require talks for 18 months...or why this is news if talks have been going on for that long, unless they've kept it under wraps for that long?
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 23974 posts, RR: 86 Reply 8, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 8088 times:
Quoting LV (Reply 6): I think it's interesting that the article says WN wants $3 million in subsidies up front. Subsidies are not something I traditionally associate WN with... but I guess PFN is a game changer.
I thought Southwest just turned down $15 million from CAE?
QANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1861 posts, RR: 2 Reply 9, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7896 times:
Yeah, yeah, yeah... WN is ALWAYS looking at markets to serve. And you can't find out about a market unless you talk to the airport/city people themselves.
But....... this REALLY caught my eye:
Quote: Southwest wanted to announce the Wichita service in December and begin it in June, the source said. But officials couldn't come up with the money in time to meet an October deadline, he said.
Now, there's a new deadline of September for service to begin in June 2011, the source said.
That is the most definitive thing I've ever heard from a "WN is looking to serve XXX" article. That is the exact timeline that WN uses to announce service and then start service. I wonder if ICT was actually really that close to happening?
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
justplanenutz From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 454 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7692 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 8): I thought Southwest just turned down $15 million from CAE?
That article does not describe the full situation. The $15 million are state incentives that could be available for ANY airport in S.C., but just CAE. So while WN did turn down CAE, they are very much considering CHS and GSP.
That is an interesting parallel to what is currently happening in S.C. FL asked CHS for $2mm per year to continue service there, which CHS declined. So FL ended service in December. Now CHS is willing to pay WN much more to start service.
I wonder if is ICT is looking to "trade up" as well.
Packcheer From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 325 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6819 times:
Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 13): Maybe they're trying to catch up with RDU in the revenue guarantee game (LHR).
That's not quite an accurate comparrison. The way I understand it (having lived in Raleigh for 20 years) The subsidies at RDU are being paid by Glaxo Smith Kline and some other companies in the area to stay connected to LHR. The amound that RDU actually pays in the deal is small (if any).
Besides collecting massive subsidies, what are they? Wichita is about 600,000 people. The last market that size WN started was RSW, which has a lot of inbound tourism. The market before that that size that WN started was ALB, and that was more than 10 years ago and arguably served twice as many people.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5018 posts, RR: 15 Reply 16, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6488 times:
Talks, shmalks -- happens constantly, all over the country, probably currently in over a dozen cities -- means nothing. Of course these days, the new element in these talks is how much money the destination is willing and able to give WN to see Canyon Blue on their tarmac; quite the game changer!
We should probably just start an on-going thread here on A.net: "Who's Courting WN This Week?"...
wedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5766 posts, RR: 5 Reply 17, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6277 times:
ICT is barely able to supply people to FL with 3X daily 717's to ATL and a seasonal-weekly to MCO with subsidies. I hardly doubt Sedgewick County and the City will be able to fork over too much more taxpayer money to support unrealistic air service. WN is not the airline to flying 2X to 4X daily to a specific destination...it's more like 8X to 10X daily, except longer haul traffic...in most cases. WN has much larger markets they could make PROFITS from.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 23974 posts, RR: 86 Reply 18, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6232 times:
Quoting justplanenutz (Reply 10): The $15 million are state incentives that could be available for ANY airport in S.C., but just CAE. So while WN did turn down CAE, they are very much considering CHS and GSP.
That puts a different light on it, thanks. And - to be sur e- it is available to any airline, not just to Southwest?
Jetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2692 posts, RR: 35 Reply 19, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6105 times:
I know WN @ OKC and TUL get a considerable amount of feed from the ICT/Southern Kansas/Northern Oklahoma region. A lot of those people I have talked to said they don't mind the 2 hr+ drive to get a good WN fare to where they are going.
mtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2290 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6100 times:
Quoting SANFan (Reply 16): We should probably just start an on-going thread here on A.net: "Who's Courting WN This Week?"...
LOL, that is true. Reminded me of when I toured thru the schedule planning dept in DAL just before ALB was announced. There were shelves of proposals and marketing material binders from sooo many cities and towns around the nation. Some that I knew had no chance at WN service.
The one that sticks out in my mind right now was seeing promo material notebook from Modesto,CA. I remember my thought at the time was 'why did they ( MOD folks) waste their time doing that'. But, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
wedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5766 posts, RR: 5 Reply 23, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5760 times:
Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 19): I know WN @ OKC and TUL get a considerable amount of feed from the ICT/Southern Kansas/Northern Oklahoma region. A lot of those people I have talked to said they don't mind the 2 hr+ drive to get a good WN fare to where they are going.
There are a lot of people in the Wichita area that like to gamble. One of the best things that happened to ICT was G4's introduction of service to LAS. Ironically enough, G4 at that time was the smallest airline at ICT with the largest aircraft. AA still had F-100 service to ICT. But G4 only had four destinations in its network including FAT, COS and LAS...with a single MD-80.
My wife and I flew on G4 the 2nd week of operations at ICT with a roundtrip fare of $120 each. It's back when most things were free including softdrinks and juices. They had another cart that more enhanced snacks and games.
ICT saw a lot of charters covering for G4 when they were small including Casino Express 737-200's and Sierra Pacific 737-200's.
tyler81190 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 141 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5314 times:
I don't see why FL is even there... ICT and SG county are wasting tons of money keeping an airline there that is essentially a mirror to DL service there. WN should stay out, AA already has ORD, DFW, and STL tied up. I see no reason to bring W into the mix, actually I think FL should be booted, and give DL more $$ to subsidize fares, or to bring in more daily flights, as all of their loads out of there are at least 95% full, not to mention the face capacity is being reduced due to F/C being installed on all flights in/out of ICT on the CRJ700's...
25 KcrwFlyer: I'm well aware, but I like to poke fun at it all the same. There are some folks from RDU on here I like to make happy ..haha Subsidies Low fares. The
26 LV: To what degree does cargo play a role in picking a new station? I know it seems WN handles more cargo domestically then any other pax airline. I know
27 mtnwest1979: STL is done/ending soon though. I would think ICT service would be just about the same as OMA service. I can't see wichita as a location that WN woul
28 rangercarp: I hope this turns out to be a pipe dream. WN service would most certainly be the death knell for both air tran and frontier in Wichita. Those two have
29 N200WN: I don't see why taxpayer money should be given to any airline to start service. Let the free market rule and let the taxpayer money be used to improve
30 Cubsrule: The last of the STL Connection service ended on April 4. OMA is a fair bit bigger, isn't it? Furthermore, those population numbers are a bit misleadi
31 Flygirl747: I heard from a friend whose girlfriend works at Southwest that she heard that WN really does want to start service in Wichita. If they didn't, it make
32 Jetmatt777: I have a friend whose friend's father-in-law's mother who knows someone who works at..... we know it goes. If WN REALLY did want to start service, th