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Petition To Save Service To OXR (Oxnard, CA)  
User currently onlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26497 posts, RR: 75
Posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3406 times:

To the A.net community:

As a long time member of this community and a United 1K who has used OXR extensively over the past 5 years, and even before, I have been lamenting the discontinuation of the OXR-LAX flights on OO/UAX. I found out today that a fellow 1K who is also OXR-based has started a petition/letter writing campaign to the DOT to reverse its decision to drop EAS funding for the airport.

Anyone who appreciates local airport service and alternatives to the aggravation of big hub airports, especially considering the unique issues we have in Southern California (Traffic and poor public transportation), should sign this letter and send it on to the awesome fellow aviation/travel fan who is coordinating it.

Here is the link to the letter:

http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0...ZjgyLThmNzMtYzQzN2RhNmNkNTk2&hl=en

Then, scan and email to the following:

atilla@fileyourtaxes.com


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2788 posts, RR: 32
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3406 times:

I'd say the best petition would be to support the flight with your money, not sign a piece of paper asking the government to pay for it.


No info
User currently offlineBoston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3366 times:

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 1):
I'd say the best petition would be to support the flight with your money, not sign a piece of paper asking the government to pay for it.

Almost impossible to do when the flight does not exist. I believe the OP has already made it clear he supported the flight with $$.



"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
User currently offlinesasd209 From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Oct 2007, 642 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3337 times:

Do I have this correct: OXR-LAX is an 11 minute flight using an E120? How far from OXR is the closest airport with commercial service?

User currently offlineBoston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3320 times:

Quoting sasd209 (Reply 3):
Do I have this correct: OXR-LAX is an 11 minute flight using an E120? How far from OXR is the closest airport with commercial service?

11 minutes seems a bit long. LAX, SBA, and BUR are the next three closest.



"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
User currently offlineJetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2788 posts, RR: 32
Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3282 times:

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 2):
Almost impossible to do when the flight does not exist. I believe the OP has already made it clear he supported the flight with $$.


The City of Oxnard could always try the Branson and Wichita method, raise the subsidy cash within the city instead of relying on the EAS program. Or just fill the remaining seats before the service ends.



No info
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32784 posts, RR: 72
Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3281 times:

Quoting sasd209 (Reply 3):
Do I have this correct: OXR-LAX is an 11 minute flight using an E120? How far from OXR is the closest airport with commercial service?

LAX is the closest airport with commercial service. LAX or BUR is roughly a 70-90 minute drive.



a.
User currently offlinesasd209 From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Oct 2007, 642 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3282 times:

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 4):

11 minutes seems a bit long. LAX, SBA, and BUR are the next three closest.

I was using flightaware and today it showed an 11 minute flight and a 12 minute flight. The GC mapper shows 49NM as the distance..


User currently onlineStuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1961 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3239 times:

I think any use of government funds to support flights to Oxnard would be a crime. Burbank and LAX are not that far. SBA is not very far. I lived very nearby for a number of years.

User currently offlinesasd209 From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Oct 2007, 642 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3207 times:

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 8):
I think any use of government funds to support flights to Oxnard would be a crime.

I think I missed this part... these flights are funded by the US government? Why?


User currently offlineJetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2788 posts, RR: 32
Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3166 times:

Quoting sasd209 (Reply 9):
I think I missed this part... these flights are funded by the US government? Why?
http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/rural/easwhat.pdf

Basically, the government program named EAS (Essential Air Service) pays airlines a subsidy to fly certain routes (mainly low demand routes to rural communities and small out of the way cities).



No info
User currently offlinesasd209 From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Oct 2007, 642 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3086 times:

OK jetmatt, thanks for the info. Question: how does OXR qualify as an out of the way or rural city, or essential for that matter?? Is there some industry or corporate HQ's in the city that would make scheduled air service essential? If Im reading this and the map correctly, It's got some pretty good sized airports within say, 50 miles of it.

User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5804 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3042 times:

I believe OXR has currently been operated without a subsidy.

I do not see it on the most recent EAS subsidy report.
http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/x-50%20role_files/NonAlaska010110.htm

But with OO leaving it is unlikely another carrier would start without financial support from some source.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineA346Dude From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1284 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3036 times:

I don't mean to be rude but... why should other people be forced to pay for you to avoid an inconvenient drive?


You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
User currently offlineMrSkyGuy From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1214 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2991 times:

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 8):
I think any use of government funds to support flights to Oxnard would be a crime. Burbank and LAX are not that far. SBA is not very far. I lived very nearby for a number of years.

And I live there now.. lets's not also forget the value of being able to move servicemen and women to and from the Ventura County Naval Station as well. I live very close by, and I'm devastated to see this service discontinued as well.

And to the smart aleck above, we *do* support the flight with our money.. every time I've flown the OXR-LAX EMB120 service, we've been a full flight and it's not the cheapest.



"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25391 posts, RR: 49
Reply 15, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2898 times:

I'd strongly agree with the sentiment that it would have been better to support this flight with your dollars then a petition to the DOT.

As far as EAS, no way should the airport become EAS as it does not fit current definition of a EAS market being located well within 100 miles of both a medium and major hub as defined by the DOT.

Basically the folks of Oxnard, have 3 viable choices now – drive to Santa Barbara, Burbank or Los Angeles.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25391 posts, RR: 49
Reply 16, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2845 times:

When the OXR-LAX route discontinuation was made public Skywest reported the route was generating very low LF averaging in the 30% range, and obviously well below threshold needed for profitability.

Here are the OXR-LAX DOT LF numbers for 2009.

Jan - 32.1%
Feb - not pulling up for some reason
Mar - 35.3%
Apr - 36.0%
May - 47.9%
Jun - 33.3%
Jul - 36.5%
Aug - 33.8%
Sep - 43.1%
Oct - 37.4%
Nov - 27.9%
Dec - 29.3%



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinesasd209 From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Oct 2007, 642 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2832 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
Basically the folks of Oxnard, have 3 viable choices now – drive to Santa Barbara, Burbank or Los Angeles.

Please humour me as I'm obviously not from CA: how far (approx) would those 3 airports be from the Oxnard area? Are there motorways or other roads that connect them or is this place really isolated form the other 3 airports?


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25391 posts, RR: 49
Reply 18, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2825 times:

Quoting sasd209 (Reply 17):
Please humour me as I'm obviously not from CA: how far (approx) would those 3 airports be from the Oxnard area? Are there motorways or other roads that connect them or is this place really isolated form the other 3 airports?

Airport to airport road distance per mapquest:
OXR - Santa Barbara - 46miles
OXR - Burbank - 57miles
OXR - LAX - 64miles



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4389 posts, RR: 29
Reply 19, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2816 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 6):
LAX is the closest airport with commercial service.

Santa Barbara..?



The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlinesasd209 From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Oct 2007, 642 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2810 times:

With those 3 airports so close, I'm failing to see how US taxpayer subsidies should be used to keep Oxnard open for a twin-prop A/C for the 12 minute hop to LAX.... Unless folks are just so used to the convenience of a nearby airport that this is an acceptable practice? Be clear please: I'm not being rude or accusatory, I am indeed curious about this practice. Thanks much!  

[Edited 2010-05-03 00:33:32]

User currently offlineBoston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2802 times:

One reason is the military operations nearby.


"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
User currently offlinesasd209 From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Oct 2007, 642 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2782 times:

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 21):
One reason is the military operations nearby.

The military operations rely on a twin-prop flight to LAX? Do we have any numbers on the military/civilian makeup of the passengers of these flights? I could see if the military was using them as a shuttle flight, but the LF's in post #16 show a 33% to less than 50% load factor....not really indicative of a fully utilised shuttle flight, on an E-120 no less~! If the military really needed to get persons from the area to a civilian airport, surely the facilities at PT Mugu are adequate for operations ( and an 11,000+ runway as I see on AirNav).
I'm sorry, I cannot see a reason other than 'convenience' for flights to be subsidized to/from this airport with 3 alternatives within ~60 miles, and 'convenience' was not a criteria listed in reply# 10 for this program..


User currently offlineMrSkyGuy From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1214 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2648 times:

Quoting sasd209 (Reply 22):
The military operations rely on a twin-prop flight to LAX? Do we have any numbers on the military/civilian makeup of the passengers of these flights?

The Ventura County Naval Station is the consolidation of what was formerly the A) Port Hueneme Naval Base (and deep sea port) + Point Mugu Naval Air Station. It's enormous.



"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
User currently onlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26497 posts, RR: 75
Reply 24, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2583 times:

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 1):
I'd say the best petition would be to support the flight with your money, not sign a piece of paper asking the government to pay for it.

I'm not actually sure why the gentleman who put this together is applying to the DOT. I assumed it was EAS withdrawal, but it looks like they are actually trying to pull EAS funding for the flight.

I actually like that idea given all the money California transfers to other states via the federal government.

Quoting sasd209 (Reply 3):
Do I have this correct: OXR-LAX is an 11 minute flight using an E120? How far from OXR is the closest airport with commercial service?

LAX-OXR is probably around 12 minutes. OXR-LAX is more like 20, because the flight has to move into the pattern.

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 5):
Or just fill the remaining seats before the service ends.

My most recent outbound was chock a block.

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 5):
The City of Oxnard could always try the Branson and Wichita method, raise the subsidy cash within the city instead of relying on the EAS program

Those cities actually had the prospects of more extensive service.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 6):
LAX is the closest airport with commercial service

Did you look at the great circle mapper or something?

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 6):
LAX or BUR is roughly a 70-90 minute drive.

Depends. BUR is actually a decent alternative because it has viable public transport options from Oxnard, Camarillo and Ventura.

Quoting sasd209 (Reply 9):

I think I missed this part... these flights are funded by the US government? Why?

Actually, I don't think they are, outside the massive military presence on the flights.

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 12):
I believe OXR has currently been operated without a subsidy.

I had thought the same.

Quoting A346Dude (Reply 13):


I don't mean to be rude but... why should other people be forced to pay for you to avoid an inconvenient drive?

We pay for all kinds of other communities to do the same.

Quoting MrSkyGuy (Reply 14):

And I live there now.. lets's not also forget the value of being able to move servicemen and women to and from the Ventura County Naval Station as well. I live very close by, and I'm devastated to see this service discontinued as well.

The military feed really fueled that flight for years.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
When the OXR-LAX route discontinuation was made public Skywest reported the route was generating very low LF averaging in the 30% range, and obviously well below threshold needed for profitability.

That is largely OO's fault, as they maintained really poor schedules and dropped from 4-6 flights per day to 2-3 per day at really poor connecting times.

Quoting sasd209 (Reply 22):

The military operations rely on a twin-prop flight to LAX?

You would be surprised.

Quoting sasd209 (Reply 22):
If the military really needed to get persons from the area to a civilian airport, surely the facilities at PT Mugu are adequate for operations ( and an 11,000+ runway as I see on AirNav).

Pt. Mugu isn't a civilian airport and the military doesn't go around transporting troops on R&R on transport aircraft.

That said, CMA would be a far more ideal airport for commercial service. It is a matter of getting the Camarillo City Council to go for it.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
25 Boeing1970 : Wow! Thats a disaster. Okay, I'll bite. How?[Edited 2010-05-03 12:00:37]
26 MrSkyGuy : Completely agree, but that's a dead initiative (it's been tried so many times). Before the threshold was moved forward, CMA could have landed 747s wi
27 413X3 : If anything you should ask for a Flyaway bus transportation. Or just take the much quicker drive up to SBA. The drive from Oxnard into LAX is bumper t
28 Post contains images mtnwest1979 : That's what google, mapquest, etc are for..... Perhaps this is where a local company in OXR area could find a iche and start up their own service to
29 N1120A : Flyaway has not yet been extended outside of L.A. County and would still subject people to the whims of traffic and the pain of LAX. Oxnard isn't the
30 Post contains images sasd209 : Yes, clearly I can use the internet What shows up on a map as 50 miles traveling on a motorway rated at 55 MPH should be an hours drive, but is that
31 Post contains links LAXintl : Sure it has -- Irvine in Orange County http://www.lawa.org/uploadedFiles/LA...20FlyAway%20Pamphlet%20(12-09).pdf After thought? -- Skywest/United has
32 kanban : they needed a smaller a/c... around 19 seats.. I understand the need since even though the distances to other airports are short the traffic is horren
33 N1120A : Flying nowhere other than LAX. Since 2007, the number of flights has declined severely and the timings have become worse and worse. Give customers ch
34 N1120A : Incidentally, I was under the impression that OXR had EAS service because of the wording of the letter. It turns out it was not EAS service. That said
35 StuckInCA : Just thinking about this some more... I'd bet that on most days (the vast majority) you could leave Oxnard (or surrounding) and make it to BUR or SBA
36 kanban : LAX-OXR-SBA-SFO and return might give you enough passengers ... do miss flying into SBA on a Hughes Airwest F-27 with a fire/smoke in the electronics
37 Boeing1970 : Not enough air operations to worry about. Complete non-issue.
38 sasd209 : I was kinda wondering about this....If there was so much military traffic, would the loads not be better or perhaps an agreement (perhaps charter ser
39 MrSkyGuy : Doubtful. Im sure the military will just charter a bus again.. that's how they brought me to Pt. Hueneme from LAX many years ago.
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