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MIA/MCO - New International Routes  
User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32731 posts, RR: 72
Posted (13 years 3 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2161 times:

Anyone know what to expect on the international factor at MIA? Recently, AF went double-daily on MIA-CDG (B744, A343 [double 744 during tourist season]), NW/KL introduced daily MIA-AMS (DC10), AA introduced 5x weekly MIA-MED (B738; Medellin, Columbia) and LA brought daily MIA-UIO-GYE service. TAM will soon be introducing MIA-GIG (A332) and a third daily MIA-GRU (A332), as well as MIA-MAO-BSB (A320; only direct flight between the US and Brasillia). Any other possible new routes? How about MIA-BRU (AA or Sabena)? MIA-BCN (IB does have an MIA hub, afterall)? MIA-SVQ (twice or thrice-weekly service could be supported, IMO)? bmi MIA-LHR (or MIA-LGW if they can't get AA rights) is definitley coming. MIA-TLV non-stop (maybe it's just a pipe dream hoping LY makes thier MIA-TLV flight non-stop, but it could happen)? And how about MCO? Anything new out of there? How about MCO-CDG on DL?


a.
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJohnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (13 years 3 months 5 days ago) and read 2094 times:

i highly doubt a BRU-MIA would surface soon. although brussel is the main city of the EU and miami is the same for the NAFTA (or so i believe) i´d say that would be mainly a tourist flight so i doubt AA or SN would inaugurate this service soon.
don´t hold your breath on a bmi service to MIA. bermuda II is still in place and so for the time being bmi is not allowed to serve the US from LHR. they could serve the US from LGW what bmi has absolutely no service at LGW so if they were to offer service to MIA it would be from MAN. and to establish viable longhaul operations bmi is currently to connect MAN with star member hubs. ok, UA has a significant presene in MIA however, there are other destinations in the US which i do believe seem more profitable for bmi, such as SFO or LAX, and perhaps BOS and/or JFK/EWR. although UA might not be a bigger number at BOS or at JFK/EWR i think these services would make much more sense than MIA. MIA certainly provides better services to south america on UA than the other cities, but i don´t think bmi/UA could currently compete with BA/AA on getting to south america.
in addition, bmi´s chairman, sir michael bishop, has recently stated that bmi is looking into serving YYZ from MAN. sorry, that i cannot provide a source at the moment, but i´ve read just one or two days ago somewhere on the net...

best regards
daniel



If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
User currently offlineMiafll From Jamaica, joined Jun 2000, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (13 years 3 months 5 days ago) and read 2085 times:

Air Jamaica to add daily flights from MCO to MBJ and KIN starting July 1- September 8.

User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32731 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (13 years 3 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2063 times:

Johnnybgood, you made the exact point. Brussels is home to the EU and Miami to the North American-equivlent. Miami could really use service to Brussels again. The Citybird flights were always popular, though it is American/Sabena that can make money on the route. As for bmi, you make a good point, but there Miami-London is a route that is very underserved, and I'm sure bmi sees that, though I have also heard about the YYZ thing. And, sorry if I missinterpeted, but you make it sound like MIA-LHR is a tourist route. It's not, in fact, MIA-LHR will be switching to Four-Class service soon and MIA is the only US airport with a British Airways Terrace lounge.



a.
User currently offlineJohnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (13 years 3 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2037 times:

well, it seems like you misunderstood me. what i was trying to say was that BRU-MIA is a tourist route, certainly not London-MIA. although the citybird flights might have been full citybird was mainly a leisure carrier and once again, i´d like to point out that i don´t think that SN/AA are currently seriously considering a MIA-BRU route because i´m sure there are other routes on both airlines could currently operate more profitable.
well, once again, perhaps it´s true that London-MIA is underserved, i dunno, but currently bmi can´t do nothing about it. i think they could serve MIA from LGW but that would make absolutely no sense because bmi has absolutely no service at LGW, no flights, no feeder network, no station, nothing...

best regards
daniel




If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
User currently offlineTurbineBeaver From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1199 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (13 years 3 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2020 times:

Are there any Star Alliance flights that go MCO-Anywhere in Europe?????


TB


User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32731 posts, RR: 72
Reply 6, posted (13 years 3 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2002 times:

Johnnybgood, your right, but it might get to the point were to serve North America, bmi will have to use LGW, and they have applied (and I think granted) for the right to fly MIA-LGW, as well as DEN-LGW, ATL-LGW and others.


a.
User currently offlineJohnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (13 years 3 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1986 times:

afaik, there are currently no star flights from MCO nonstop to europe.
i believe there is or there was a onestop connection on UA via IAD, though, but i´m not sure...

rgds
daniel



If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 8, posted (13 years 3 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1982 times:

Out of MIA, look for SN nonstop flights to Brussels, not because the Citybird flights were a success (they really were not, planes full of people paying extremely low fares) but because AA/SN shall link SN's BRU hub with AA's MIA hub. TLV is a possibility, but EL AL must get its finances in order first. British Midland is likely to hold off on MIA-London until it can get its London airport situation cleared up, I think, BMI would really like to fly out of Heathrow as it has a major european/UK domestic hub there and will need connecting, as well as O&D traffic, to make a competitive route like MIA-London work; currently, BMI cannot offer connecting service out of LGW. If BMI sticks with Manchester as a tranatlantic gateway, MAN-MIA could work year round. I think MIA-Tokyo will come in time (AA/JAL code share) with AA 777s, as will nonstop service from MIA to scandanvia, say SAS from MIA to Copenhagen. In general, service from MIA to Canada and Mexico will increase, and service to "second-cities" in South America will also come, it is good to see new direct service from MIA to Manaus and Brasilia, nonstop service from MIA to Recife, Salvador de Bahia, Montevideo, etc. is likely to be added in time.

Orlando is so difficult due to the large percentage of tourist traffic; I understand that the Orlando/Tampa area is also the home to many companies and the populations there are growing, but airlines do not seem willing to take the risk. I think that MCO-Paris is logical with a DL/AF code-share, and MCO-Frankfurt is also a strong possibility. Most of the growth, however, is likely to be in charters for the time-being.

One route that I think deserves service is Tampa-London nonstop, didn't National fly this at one time in the 1970s? And, didnt Piedmont originally fly its 762s TPA-CLT-LGW as a single flight to help get the CLT service started? A 763 or A332 could certainly operate this route profitablly.


User currently offlineEnglandair From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2000, 2228 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (13 years 3 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1977 times:

Dutchjet- I beleive that VS applied to fly from LGW to Tampa a while ago.
I understand that bmi would get more business if they could connect flights from Miami (ie through LHR), but is it a necessity? I mean VS do very well LGW-MIA and they don't offer connecting European/domestic services.


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 10, posted (13 years 3 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 1974 times:

Englandair- I was not aware of VS's application for Tampa-Gatwick, have they made any progress?

Concerning BMI and MIA-LGW, I think that BMI really wants Heathrow as its transatlantic gateway, due to connections, etc and will start flights from Gatwick only as a last resort. There approach is a bit different from Virgin. Could BMI make a Miami-Gatwick flight work? The answer is maybe, nothing more, DL failed in its attempt as most pax seem to prefer LHR, BMI from MIA to LHR would be a definite winner and may be worth waiting for in BMI's opinion.


User currently offlineTWAneedsNOhelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (13 years 3 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1965 times:

Delta failed at nothing....

They just started LGW service from their base at BOS.


User currently offlineCactusA319 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2918 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (13 years 3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1962 times:

BA already flies LGW-TPA with 777's.



User currently offlineEnglandair From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2000, 2228 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (13 years 3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1959 times:

I'm sure it was Tampa & at the same time VS made applications for other Florida cities.

User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32731 posts, RR: 72
Reply 14, posted (13 years 3 months 3 days ago) and read 1948 times:

Dutchjet, MIA-REC (Recife) is flown every Monday non-stop on Varig on a 762 (though the route is MIA-REC-BEL-MIA). TPA-LGW is flown thrice-weekly on a two-class BA 772 (soon to go daily, 3 class). While it makes sense for bmi to wait for LHR, the truth is MIA-London is a heavy O&D route, with most connections being made to the Middle East (Gulf Air codeshares w/ AA on MIA-LHR). Miamians perfer flying Iberia and Swissair to make connections. Premiair flies MIA-CPH charters.


a.
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 15, posted (13 years 3 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1939 times:

Thanks for the info on TPA-London, I honestly did not realize that BA was operating that route and it will go daily 777. Wow.

Mah4546, with respect to MIA-London, I agree with you, there is lots of O&D traffic, it is simply my understanding that bmi really wants to use LHR for many reasons (for all transatlantic, not just MIA) and will only go to LGW if, after some time, it has no other choice. Your info on the Varig flights is, of course, correct - I was just trying to state that hopefully MIA will see more flights to cities like Recife, etc. with greater frequencies in the future. Do you agree that a MIA-REC-SAL daily flight would work if an airline seriously tried it? I think it would.

To TWAneedsNOhelp, please do not take my statement as being "anti-Delta", it was not meant that way and have nothing against DL. When DL flew MIA-LGW after the Pan Am deal, they had trouble competing THEN against the AA and BA flights to LHR and dropped the route. I know that they are starting BOS-LGW service and I hope that they are successful with it, maybe if DL tried MIA-LGW now (dont know if they can under the treaties) it would work.


User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32731 posts, RR: 72
Reply 16, posted (13 years 3 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1938 times:

Dutchjet, I see what you are saying about bmi and MIA, however, I think, in the end, it will be hard for them to find a way through Bermuda II. As for flights to Brazil, they are all succsesful. Miami has flights to Manaus, Rio de Janiero, Sao Paulo (88 a week! Soon to be 95!), Recife, Belo Horizonte (MIA-GIG-CNF-GIG-MIA on AA), Belem, and Fortazela (MIA-MAO-FOR-MAO-MIA on RG), with Brasillia coming in August (MIA-MAO-BSB-MAO-MIA). The real expansion on more flights to smaller Brazilian cities is going to come, IMO, from TAM. They will be adding a third MIA-GRU and MIA-GIG this summer, and thanks to thier A320s, they can handle routes to smaller Brazilian cities in NE Brazil economiclly. Plus, they are partners with American Airlines and have a nicer fleet and, IMO, better service than Varig and TransBrasil. TAM looks to be heading into a bright future. Salvador de Bahia will work, and maybe also Iguassu Falls and Porto Alegre. I don't know about daily though. Weekly, twice, or thrice weekly could definitley work. It is also best if the routes are paired (i.e. MIA-POA-SAL-MIA). I wouldn't be surprised to see MIA-BSB-MIA go non-stop one day, though, if I'm not mistaken, it is going via MAO not because of lack of deman, but because the A320 cannot fly the whole thing non-stop. As for other smaller South American cities, how about twice weekly service to Cordoba, Argentina? That would really be nice, but the question is, who would fly it? AR is in too much trouble and UA is not establish enough in Latin America. AA is the logical choice, maybe via GRU or non-stop with a 752 (can the 752 handle the range? It does fly MIA-LPB). I still don't understand why there is are no non-stops to Asuncion (one-stop on AA) and Montevideo (one-stop on AA, but the route is being moved to JFK in June). Daily wouldn't work, but maybe MIA-ASU-MVD-MIA on an AA 763? The key to serving small Latin American markets is pairing them together. Varig and American have done this very succsesfully, and it would be nice if they continue. American is always adding to thier Latin network, most recently with MIA-MED. A new destination is not far off at all. My wild guess here is non-stop service to Montevideo. Just a guess. If DL were to re-start MIA-LGW it would be a succses, because MIA-London is underserved, but FLL-LGW would work so much better, because DL can feed on thier 46 dailies to FLL (although O&D alone could support it). BTW, exactly when was MIA=LGW axed? Thanks.


a.
User currently offlineAirafriqueDKR From United States of America, joined May 2001, 392 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (13 years 3 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1928 times:

The reason that MIA-ASU and MIA-MVD on AA aren't nonstop and go via GRU is because the JFK-GRU and DFW-GRU flights also feed into the GRU-ASU and GRU-MVD. It's the only way AA can make service to these cities profitable. The number of passengers on the MIA flights that continue ASU and MVD isn't that many. But there always is a lot of cargo to ASU and MVD. Also since AA has 5th freedom flights on these routes, they get extra revenue from passengers originating in GRU. Brazilians love to go to Paraguay to shop and there isn't much competition on the GRU-ASU route.

The only new brazilian cities that I could see work with nonstops from MIA, are POA, SSA, and CNF.

By the way, didn't AA serve POA a few years ago (via GRU or GIG)? Also didn't Vasp operate MIA-SSA nonstop and also MIA-Florianapolis before they ceased service to the USA?


User currently offlineRafabozzolla From Brazil, joined Apr 2000, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (13 years 3 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1914 times:

AA did serve POA as an extension of its flight between DFW and GRU. Just like ASU and MVD it also fed flights to JFK and MIA.

Vasp's flights originated either at GIG or GRU and made a stop on REC or SSA or FOR depending on the schedule.


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 19, posted (13 years 3 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1904 times:

TO Mah4546 - DL flew MIA-LGW until from 1992, when DL took over the PA transatlantic routes, until about 1995 when service was dropped; the flight operated with a 1011 on a daily basis, at least initially. DL also had a MCO-FRA flight during that period, but that was dropped when DL reduced service to FRA and cut many european routes to control finances; the MCO-FRA was also a 1011 service.

I agree that a FLL-London flight would work, again its a Bermuda 2 issue. Bermuda 2 will go at some point, the question is not IF, but WHEN it will be scapped. I beleive that bmi also takes this position and therefore is waiting to fly transatlantic out of LHR.

The history of MIA-London is like a soap opera, all begining with National SunKing DC-8 service between the 2 cities.


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8897 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (13 years 3 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1904 times:

I could see Air France placing a possible 763 on that route when the A330s start coming, as two 763s are going to be freed up from BOS in lieu of A332s.

Jeff


User currently offlineJohnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (13 years 3 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1905 times:

the reason why MIA-LGW works for VS is because VS already has an estabished base at LGW with many flights, although none of them are connecting flights, correct, and because of VS famous and excellent service. bmi service is certainly great as well, but i think it´s hard to beat VS. and like i´ve repeatedly stated, bmi has currently no flights at LGW so starting intercontinental flights from LGW makes absolutely no sence for bmi. and this is exactly why they went for MAN. they couldn´t fly from LHR but they were offered LGW, but they chose MAN... it´s simple as that...

best wishes
daniel



If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
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