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EU (Schengen) Vs UK  
User currently offlineNUair From Malaysia, joined Jun 2000, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Posted (13 years 2 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2912 times:

Comming from Europe and living most of my life in the States and now living back in Europe I have to say that one of the greatest achievements of the EU has been the introduction of the Schengen partnership.

With the Schengen agreement traveling within the EU (+Iceland and Finland) becomes much like traveling domestically in the US. You do not have to go through any passport controls or customs checks. The amount of money an airport saves in reduced staff and the amount of time the individual passenger saves from not being stuck in line is extreamly significant.

Of course if you are a member you put your faith in the fact that other members are keeping up their end of the deal and checking all international arrivals into their borders.

With the recent election polls in England it looks like yet again England will continue to distance themselves from the rest of Europe and will probably not introduce the Euro within any of our lifetimes. But as far as becoming a member of Schengen what the hell is keeping them down. I know the existing members want the UK and Ireland as members even with their contaminated cows, sheep and pigs. And with unemployment rates on par and in some cases higher then the real EU members they don't stem to risk the influx of a vast amount of imigrants.

So please I would love to be informed by someone in England why I can't fly to your country without a passport and over an hour of sitting in customs and passport control lines. Working at AMS it is even more of a headache because we have so many passengers going to and from the uk and we have to designate special areas just for them that are very expensive and restrict our use of other aircraft flying to Schengen areas. Stop the isolation BS and accept that you are a part of Europe.

If anyone out in airliner.net land is the uk or Ireland please inform me why you are not a Schengen member or why you don't want to be a member.

Kind regards,
NUair
AMS


"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
95 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFax From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (13 years 2 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2774 times:

Like you said in your post, you have to put trust on fellow Schengen members' abilities to stop things such as illegal immigrants, rabies etc.

Most Northern European countries would probably meet the grade at ports and airports, however with very long borders next to poorer neighours - they can't guarantee checks on all visitors. The United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland do not have confidence in our Southern European friends, or in the fact that they share the same principles on entry.

Based on the fact that one third of the EU asylum applications are made in the UK and that it is the principal destination for illegal immigrants, it would be a political fool that gave up our own right to border control.

It is therefore for that reason that the UK and Eire will not participate in Schengen. I think for the UK it is the right decision, but as a regular visitor to Europe it is more inconvenient for me and I can see some benefit for the rest of the EU and its citizens .


User currently offlineCapt.Picard From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (13 years 2 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2758 times:

.....and as far as stronger membership of the EU is concerned, you have to understand that 52% of Brits would like to completely sever ties with the EU-yes, 52% are completely against being an EU member-with more than 75% being against joining the single currency.

Don't know why so many Brits are anti-Euro, I suspect it partly relects distrust of non-British people in handling economic and other affairs. I think you just have to accept that the British have a certain kind of attitude, different from that of other Europeans.

(IMO).

Rgds,
CP


User currently offlineNUair From Malaysia, joined Jun 2000, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (13 years 2 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2745 times:

It seems that the uk wants all the benefits of the EU without sharing any of the risk..

All EU members are dealing with increasing immigration concerns and all countries are for the most part taking action to reduce the impact and abuse of their very large social systems, it is not just a uk issue. The fact is that developed countries should take their share of the responsibility in helping the citizens of all the colonized countries that were abused and taken advantage of for centuries. If most of these people are speaking english then I think it says a lot about who is responsible for their current economic conditions. Yet it appears England does not want to be a part of the solution to the problem that they were more then happy to create, so the rest of the European nations are stuck with a large influx of immigrants from former English colonies.

I agree that opening your borders is a very risky concept but bottom line is that you still need to be an EU citizen and have the proper documentation to find a legit decent paying job. No nation is freely giving out EU citizenship and we have very strict guidlines for becoming a citizen. I think its a shame the UK and Ireland want to continue to seprerate themselves from what could be a very promising partnership. And even though Schengen membership and EU membership is not directly related, as in Finland and Iceland, I think it should definetly be a high priority for the people of the UK and Ireland.

Even though it is only a small part, non-restricted travel from and to the UK and Ireland would benefit everyone involved and help to reduce already bad delays at London airports and main European hubs. It doesn't have to be a life or death deal and if after a 1 or 2 year test it isn't working out then you would be more then able to go back to your old ways and you could deport all the illegal imigrants back to your former colonies or the rest of the EU.

Risk is just a part of life and you often have to take some risks if you ever want life to get better. I'm sure EasyJet, Ryanair, and British Airways would all agree.



"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
User currently offlineF.pier From Italy, joined Aug 2000, 1523 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (13 years 2 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2740 times:

NUair, I agree 100% with you (and I'm proud to be European).

User currently offlineGOT From Sweden, joined Dec 2000, 1912 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (13 years 2 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2736 times:

Just wanted to add that members of Schengen are EU, except of UK and Ireland plus Norway and Iceland  Smile.

GOT



Just like birdwatching - without having to be so damned quiet!
User currently offlineRyanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 16
Reply 6, posted (13 years 2 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2737 times:

The major problem is that many Brits cringe when they see the state some European countries are in, and for this reason wouldn't want to be part of it. For example, if the EU was comprised of Germany, The Netherlands and the Scandinavian Countries then I think we would join tomorrow, but with Italy, Portugal and Spain involved then we get just a little suspicious. I think the US Dollar is perhaps best suited to the UK, not the Euro.

As for UK immigration - we get the bulk of all asylum seekers arriving in Europe, and countries like France are doing very little to prevent these people crossing the channel. As such, we have to be stringent in our immigration procedures.



I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
User currently offlineAlle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (13 years 2 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2731 times:

I think Schengen is good, on the other hand you won't even be able to ask for a passport stamp bcoz you don't need to go thru immigration.

NUair

Finland is a part of the European Union. Norway is the other country that is in Schengen but not in EU.

Alexander


User currently offlinePhilB From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (13 years 2 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2727 times:

As a Brit, living in Ireland, I would love to see the UK and Ireland in Schengen.

Too many Brits are insular for the wrong reasons. It really tees me off when I have to be segregated from the rest of the Europeans and the attitude of some British Immigration Officers can be quite intimidating to non frequent travellers. What right they have to demand of holders of British passports the purpose of their journey at the start of the 21st century is beyond me.

It isn't to do with criminal intelligence (an often quoted excuse) as they have other means of finding and tracking criminals. Its more the continued desire of bureaucracy and government to control.

Some of the things I've seen on Eurostar leave a lot to be desired in terms of the Officers' inter personal skills.

As to the Republic of Ireland, travel between Ireland and the UK is very much on a Schengen type basis, all you have to do is show your boarding card counterfoil on arrival in the UK from Ireland or, in the other direction, you are not really troubled at all.

As to the Euro, I'll be in South Africa on January 1st so will miss the change over here.

Once the Brits wake up to the fact that staying out costs them ever higher exchange commissions and wider bank buy/sell differentials both business and the individual traveller will be clamouring for a referendum. A
Apart, that is, from that fool Angus Maude who declared on Friday's Any Questions that exchanging currency and paying the commission was part of the fun of overseas travel. But that's the Tories for you.


User currently offlineG-CIVP From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1314 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (13 years 2 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2713 times:

What the hell has this topic go to do with aviation?

User currently offlineEnglandair From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2000, 2228 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (13 years 2 months 3 days ago) and read 2708 times:

My thoughts exactly & the whole topic seems, to me, to be a dig at Britain & Eire.

User currently offlineG-CIVP From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1314 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (13 years 2 months 3 days ago) and read 2694 times:

This isn't an aviation related topic at all, its a political one and has absolutely nothing to do with this branch of the discussion forum.

User currently offlinePhilB From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (13 years 2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2678 times:

Englandair/G-CIVP,

This has a whole lot to do with aviation.

The problems for airlines/airports and ground handlers are immense. In Schengen countries there now have to be gates to handle flights from Schengen and non- Schengen European countries. Flights arriving with EU citizens have to have passengers directed to EU Schengen, EU non-Schengen and non EU control points as the rules for each are different. For internal EU flights this is an utter nonsense.

This may not sound much, but it becomes a logistical nightmare, takes valuable space at overcrowded airports, slows passenger flows and annoys passengers.

At Amsterdam, where the original poster works, the airport authority has had to spend millions of Guilders to re-assign gates, split passenger flows and handle a problem that should not exist.


User currently offlineQantas744 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 246 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (13 years 2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2679 times:

One of the real problems that British people have with the EU stems from the fact that we are an Island nation,and as such have a 'them and us' attitude,a bit like the attitude people from the Isle of Wight have within the UK.Although even people from Portsmouth have this sort of attitude seeing as Portsmouth is the only British city not on the mainland.(Not including Northern Ireland.)


you can't buy time but you can sell your soul and the closest thing to heaven is to rock'n'roll
User currently offlineN863DA From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 48 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (13 years 2 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2669 times:

>>So please I would love to be informed by someone in England why I can't fly to your country without a passport and over an hour of sitting in customs and passport control lines.<<

There is no difference for EU passport holders in the UK than for any other UK passport holder... that is to say the line is often instantaneous (you just flash the fact that it's maroon and they wave you on thru) - you go thru none of the checks that Americans or any other nationals go thru...

And as to Customs, anyone entering the UK from an EU country goes thru the Blue Lane Customs - where the same thing applies - you just go thru as tho it were a domestic flight.

Your accusations are groundless - the only difference between going to the UK from other EU countries and to say France or Germany is that you NEED your passport. It takes little (if any) longer for you to flash your EU passport than to go thru, for example, CDG. There is no need to 'wait in line' at all as you get treated exactly the same as UK citizens.

And as an aside, if the UK wants to distance itself from Europe, good for them.

Get off your high-and-mighty Euro-horse.

FLY DELTA JETS and sail UNITED STATES LINES



N 8 6 3 D A


User currently offlineCapt.Picard From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (13 years 2 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2664 times:

oooh, I feel a debate coming on... Big grin Big grin

Rgds,
CP


User currently offlinePhilB From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (13 years 2 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2652 times:

N863DA,

I'll bet my experiences of entering the UK (as a white UK born citizen with right of abode) between, let us say, 1995 and today (around 120 transits by air, ferry, tunnel and Eurostar) against your glib representation.

The system is a nonsense and is costing travellers, airlines and airports a great deal of money to "protect" Britain - the excuse for which used to be "terrorism" (when there was/is an open border between the UK and the Republic), now the excuse is asylum seekers.



User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24911 posts, RR: 56
Reply 17, posted (13 years 2 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2651 times:

I would just like to point out that you mention the UK then start talking about England without mentioning Scotland, Wales and N.Irelad which are also part of the UK. Is it me or are you one of those who thinks that the UK is England by itself. I notice a lot of Americans do this mistake also.
As for the Schengen, it doesnt really matter to me if the UK is in it or not.
Graham



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineKrushny From Spain, joined Dec 2000, 776 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (13 years 2 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2649 times:

Someone posted that UK is the country with most asylum applications, and that it is the main destination of illegal immigrants. Is it really true? I would say that Germany attracts more immigration (higher rent per capita, borders with eastern Europe); but it is also true that Britain (France too) had many more colonies . Can someone post actual data?
Also it is laughable the argument that UK needs to keep their border controls to prevent infectious diseases getting into the country, in light of the "mad cow" and aphtose fever affairs. It is evident that UK sanitary standards are sub to par compared with most European countries.
I think that UK out of Schengen has more to do with the British mentality (beware of continentals...) than with objective reasons.


User currently offlineNUair From Malaysia, joined Jun 2000, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (13 years 2 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2647 times:

Just to clarify why I started the topic, and its link to aviation.

Passport control and customs control is very expensive to maintain and operate. It is also the cause for numerous delays and hassles for passengers, airlines and even more so the airports.

An extreamly large number of passengers travel from continental Europe to England/Ireland/Scotland/Wales/N.Ireland and as these number continue to increase and delays at major airports become an increasing problem the question on every airport capacity person in continental Europe is what is keeping the before mentioned countries from becoming Schengen members. Living in the United States you are free to fly anywhere as long as you have a ticket and some form of identification. Now imagine that to fly to Illinois you need a passport and customs check. Not only will this cause delays it will also restrict the type of aircraft and the origin/destination of the aircraft as far as which aircraft stand it can use for security reasons.

Now at AMS we have piers dedicated to the operation of European (Schengen aircraft) and to European (non-Schengen) aircraft. But a stand dedicated to Schengen aircraft cannot be used by a non-Schengen aircraft. Vice versa is ok. While this is not a major problem for the airport directly it is a problem for the gov't officials who have to assign passport and customs control officers to each pier dedicated to non-Schengen flights. Since they (could apply to most EU gov'ts) don't always cooperate most clearance areas are understaffed. This causes major delays. When you throw in airlines like EasyJet and Ryanair who depend on quick turnaround times, the problem quickly escalates. These carriers then blame the airport in question leading to many legal and financial battles between the airlines, gov'ts and airports. Kind of ironic considering both EasyJet and Ryanair are based out of non-Schengen countries.

With future privatization for Schiphol and privatization for Frankfurt (June 11th) addressing these issues is a top priority because while the airport is no longer under gov't control the security is. And I can guarentee that the delays will only get worse. So with already bad delays and continued capacity problems, especially at Heathrow, how much sense (from and airline/airport/passenger perspective) does the uk/Ireland/N.Ireland/Scotland/Whales not belonging to the Schengen agreement make?

I'm sorry if you still don't see the relevance to the airline industry but it is a major concern at any European airport. And when you design things for operations in 20 years it is a very very important consideration.

So I would like to hear a solution from someone on the England/Ireland/Scotland/Whales/N.Ireland side of things rather then further complaints about delays in continental Europe.

I would hesitate to call this issue in any way minor as travel between the mainland and the "islands" accounts for billions of dollars per year. And their are many other ways to combat immigration issues outside of passport and customs control.

NUair



"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24911 posts, RR: 56
Reply 20, posted (13 years 2 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2641 times:

Thanks! Big grin


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineParra From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (13 years 2 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2633 times:

A: Finland is an EU member
B: EU citizens can travel to the UK without a passport as long as they can show that they are an EU citizen.
C: There has never been a requirement to have a passport to travel between the UK and Ireland or vice-versa.


User currently offlineEg777er From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 1836 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (13 years 2 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2629 times:

I don't understand the problems you have at Amsterdam.

From what I remember, AMS-LHR (in fact, AMS-UK) flights depart from the International piers such as D, C, B etc.

So what's the problem about calling them international flights?

You still have to have EU and non-EU sections in the international passport control becuase you will have Dutch citizens arriving (who are EU citizens) from other countries such as the US.

What is wrong with lumping UK flights with those to the US, Africa, Asia etc? as they do at the moment.


User currently offlineGo air canada From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (13 years 2 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2620 times:

WHAT the hell are you on about?

ENGLAND IS PART OF THE UNITED KINGDOM TALK ABOUT NOT HAVING A CLUE.

Im suggesting the removal of this thread since ti has no real relevance to airlines, in fact it just seems an exucse to start on us brits.


User currently offlineNUair From Malaysia, joined Jun 2000, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (13 years 2 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2612 times:

Parra

A. I appoligize I made a mistake but it has already been corrected in previous posts.

B. Passport or ID card it is still anohter line to stand in and another security point to pass through.

C. I never said that you needed to have a passport to fly between the UK and Ireland so maybe you misunderstood me or are referring to another post

Eg777er

The B and D piers are going to be renovated hence the current problems we are having with Schengen vs. non-Schengen and stand allocation.

The difference between non-Schengen flights and US flights is that the frequency and the loads are much much greater and have a larger impact on delays.

AMS-UK 94.208 movements
AMS-All non EU destinantions (excluding UK, Ireland) 66.208 movements.

London alone accounts for 16.754 aircraft movements the next closest US destination is New York with 3.169 movements.

If you look at passenger traffic to Paris and Frankfurt it is also on the same level.

Go Air Canada

I'm sorry that this post offends you I'm trying to bring into this forum another side of Civil Aviation other then "it would be cool if United ordered a Il-86 and flew it from Chicago to Miami" type posts.

As you know the EU is going through some deep transition, and yes I know the difference between England and the uk but I did not know the differences in international regulatory decision making between the different areas. This is not an attack on England or anyone else but an attempt to understand why opening customs and identification control, which could one day lead to complete open skys, and help BA/KL to possibly go through with their alliance plans, is such a problem.

You can't ignore politics when you are talking about aviation in Europe.

If this post really offends you or anyone else that much I will also suggest deletion and bring it over to the planebusiness.com forum.




"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
25 G-CIVP : "and the attitude of some British Immigration Officers can be quite intimidating to non frequent travellers. What right they have to demand of holder
26 Ryanb741 : The reason the UK attracts more asylum seekers that Germany, France etc is partly because of the ex-colonies and also because of the language - Englis
27 PhilB : G-CIVP, I'm not wrong, you are TWICE. If you care to read and understand my post which you quote, you might realise that I was talking about questions
28 Eg777er : PhilB, I've flown out of LHR (to non-EU destinations) more times than I'd care to remember and have NEVER been asked anything to do with the purpose o
29 G-CIVP : Phil B First - Yes I can read! However, I don't think your particularly clear about entry/exiting the UK in that paragraph. Second, if you enter the U
30 Hepkat : I'm actually quite glad to have read these posts. They are quite educational, and give a unique insight to how Europeans think. As an American living
31 Post contains images Ryanb741 : Yes, but remember that the US states were still culturally fairly similar. The EU is a rich tapestry of cultures and many people don't want to lose th
32 Capt.Picard : Hepkat, I agree, but as I have already said, cultural differences & attitudes between (specifically) Britain, and (generally) the rest of the EU membe
33 Hepkat : Ryanb741: I hear what you're saying, but can you imagine that no one state should run the whole affair? Again, looking at the U.S., federal affairs ar
34 Ryanb741 : Well, I guess that leaves us with two issues then. One would be the harmonisation of immigration protocol throughout the EU, which would make it easie
35 Hepkat : And what's wrong with competing with the U.S.? Living here in Europe has really opened my eyes as to how the U.S. really bosses you guys around. But w
36 PhilB : eg777er and G-CIVP, Just goes to prove how effective the Immigration exit control is as you both seem to find it imperceptable. I agree it isn't as ba
37 Hepkat : PhilB: You never need to have a passport with you while in the U.S., all you need is an acceptable form of ID. Here in Austria, not even a driver's li
38 Eitlean : In response to some of the above posts, if there is too much social tension between certain states in Europe, then surely that is something to face up
39 PhilB : Hepkat, To most US police, a European driving licence or ID card is as useful, or as understood, as European currency is in a US bank. I've had confer
40 Heisan67 : Just would like to point out that Finland is an EU-member already. Schengen countries is most of the EU countries + Iceland and NORWAY. Norway and Ice
41 NUair : Ok I am soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sorry about the mistake and I obviously can't say that enough since nobody seems to be reading past the
42 Hepkat : PhilB: No one is contesting the fact that discrimination is not rife in the U.S., but it's not enshrined in our laws. If someone discriminates against
43 Post contains images Airsicknessbag : Excuse me, what´s discriminatory about having to show your passport to a police officer? Here in Germany everyone aged 16 or more has to carry the fe
44 Hepkat : It's discriminatory because the law requires that all FOREIGNERS carry their passports, not citizens. How are you going to tell if someone's a foreign
45 Capt.Picard : NUair Not all Brits (and perhaps the Irish, but I don't know) are firmly against joining the single currency & further integration with the EU. The st
46 Rickster : Hepkat, i know what you mean, but honestly this law you are talking about wich orders EVERYBODY! to carry ID`s here in Austria is in use since a very
47 Post contains images Airsicknessbag : >>It's discriminatory because the law requires that all FOREIGNERS carry their passports, not citizens. I can only comment on the situation in Germany
48 Hepkat : Case in point, last weekend a friend and I decided to go to the park during the day as it was so sunny and nice out. We took my car. Immeidately on en
49 Post contains images Airsicknessbag : Ah, but now you make a completely different point: first you say the law in itself is discriminatory, then, after people (Rickster) tell you it´s not
50 Parra : Hepkat Had you been an EU citizen from a country other than Austria then you still wouldn't have had to show your passport. The Treaty of Rome and the
51 Parra : Airsicknessbag The European Court of Human Rights of which Germany recognises the jurisdiction states that individuals have the absolute right to priv
52 Hepkat : Airsicknessbag: I think you misunderstood my post. I've been told time and time again, that the law states, that ALL FOREIGNERS in Austria MUST carry
53 Ryanb741 : Also, without wishing to be overly controversial, but lets face it - Austria is a country known to have a large Far-Right-Wing mentality anyway, so ev
54 Post contains images Airsicknessbag : Hepkat, >>>I think you misunderstood my post. Well, maybe I did, but have another look at Rickster´s post: >>>This law orders not only foreigners to
55 Magyar : Let me tell you an interesting story, which happened with me in El Paso (USA). I was there to visit the Hueco Tanks (National Monument I guess) and h
56 Turbulence : Hepkat: Just a question: is your driving license an Austrian one? As EU residents, (maybe except Brits in UK, as someone pointed) everybody MUST carry
57 Hepkat : Magyar, your experience is HIGHLY uncommon and is not something written in law. Can't you understand the difference between law and practice? What hap
58 Turbulence : Hepkat: Have you completely read my just above post? Is your driving license austrian? are you in possession of an Austrian residence permit? Also, my
59 Capt.Picard : Guys, If this is a problem within Austria (and I haven't been, so I don't know), please don't tarr the whole of Europe as being racist..... BTW, BA ma
60 Hepkat : Turbulence, yes I have an Austrian drivers licence. As I mentioned several times before, the police told me I needed to have my passport along with my
61 Go air canada : turblence- i have emailed airliners to complain about your tone. Maybe we are isloated a bit since EUROPE BROUGHT US FOOT AND MOUTH NOT WHAT YOU SUGGE
62 Hepkat : But wait a sec, "Go Air Canada", I find your post much stronger and offensive than Turbulence's! It's nationalism taken too far. I understand the reas
63 PhilB : Having been born shortly after WW2, grown up through the Cold War, seen great strides made in European trade and peace initiatives, had for the first
64 NoUFO : Hepkat, are you positive the police knew the law exactly? Generally courts say what falls within the law - and not whatsoever minded policemen. I thin
65 N863DA : >>Britain alone can't compete with the US, I am greatly saddened that so many young Brits here are prepared to spurn the finest chance Europe has had
66 Post contains images Airsicknessbag : Again, I can´t really comment on the legal situation in Austria but it´s widely similar to the German one, so I´ll tell you about the situation he
67 Post contains images Ryanb741 : Hmmm. It is interesting to read some of the anti-UK posts on this board, and to realise how ill-judged they are. Turbulence: As has been pointed out,
68 Post contains images Airsicknessbag : Ryan, >>>Still, the great British colonisation of Spain has already begun. Tenerife and Ibiza have already been assimilated (alas the Germans defeated
69 Post contains images Ryanb741 : Ah, but you may have won the battle, but not the war yet! Your evil towel-tricks will never defeat the mighty Brits. And I have noticed that the Thai
70 Post contains images NoUFO : Hi Ryanb741, Why then is our capital city full of French, Italians, Greeks, Germans, Spaniards, Portuguese etc This is because while you Brits are bus
71 Avion : Ryanb741: One correction Switzerland has the europes and most likely the worlds lowest unemployement rate. Tom
72 Advancedkid : Hi all, I had to laugh at the last posts. I have lived in Germany, the UK and am now living in the US. I agree with Hepkat about the general treatment
73 Post contains images Ryanb741 : Avion Okay, Switzerland may have a lower unemployment rate, but it's not exactly one of the main labour markets within Europe, so I guess I was trying
74 PhilB : N863DA, As a 50 something who studied history, has been around the world a bit, run companies that have traded in Europe and elsewhere and heard more
75 Eg777er : Joke: Two aircraft on the ground at Ibiza. One Lufthansa. One British Airways. BA has been waiting for 40 minutes in the takeoff queue, but LH taxis p
76 Post contains images Capt.Picard : Hi eg77er, I disagree with your stance on Europe, but as a consolation prize, your joke was very funny.. Later, CP
77 PhilB : eg777er, Thanks for the joke, no thanks for the offensive, racist claptrap. That borders on breaking UK law on racial intolerance.
78 N863DA : PhilB: I mean it is naive to assume that everyone SHOULD think like you. That is Tony Blair's logic. You're not right - I'm not right, and nor is anyo
79 Eg777er : Don't think that I broke the law with a bit of nationalistic tub-thumping....but never mind. I was trying to exhibit one stereotypical argument agains
80 Krushny : Ryanb741 : ======= Oh what an attack! This is pirate Drake ravaging again our coasts. But beware, all those Spaniards flocking to London are the new
81 Rickster : Well honestly, but reading some posts here reminds me that we are pretty far away from a really "United Europe". Towel-throwing germans, nazi austrian
82 NUair : How many illegal immigrants are taking over good well paying jobs in developed countries??? The fact is most of the initial immigrants are comming int
83 Turbulence : Rickster: I can't tell for the Austrian "pink thing", as I don't know if it has joined the EU standard yet. But the Spanish one has photo and adress o
84 Hepkat : Rickster: Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking Austria or Austrians. As a matter of fact, many of my best friends are Austrians, and most, if not all
85 Post contains images Ryanb741 : Oh what an attack! This is pirate Drake ravaging again our coasts. But beware, all those Spaniards flocking to London are the new "Armada Invencible"
86 Eg777er : st of all, let me tell you that when Iberia was having huge losses and internal problems, I repeatedly put BA as the best example of the only state-ow
87 Turbulence : Eg777er: I maybe should add that I DO PERFECTLY KNOW that BA is private for a long time now, just if you noticed, I used the PAST TENSE... But it is m
88 Turbulence : By the way, and linking to a comment about unemployment rates in Switzerland, just some comments. As a matter of fact, Switzerland is really the lower
89 Post contains images Wirraway : Unbelievable, as an Aussie who was under British control for many a year, you Europeons should not take the Poms (British) so serious, you have got to
90 Go air canada! : turblence-I support you over the spanish thing, people dont realise- i know when spain was formed and by the way it nearly spilt when Isbella of casti
91 Turbulence : I see you have learnt some history of what Spain was, and when. OK. Congratulations. I can't tell about the Isle of Man, though. But you talked about
92 Hepkat : You've all demonstrated with fervent passion, why Europe will never become truly united in the forseeable future. I admit, I was wrong and very naive
93 F.pier : I know that between European countries there are a lot of differences, but I also think that the EU is our future. I'm really proud to be European and
94 Granite : Hi all Election polls are for the whole of the UK and not just England. Please remember that. Regards Gary Watt Aberdeen, Scotland
95 Turbulence : Granite: Now that you threw your comment, let me clarify something "from outside": You all, in UK, have very clear the difference between England, Wal
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