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CX790 Accident First Report Released  
User currently offlineAJ From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 2386 posts, RR: 24
Posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 28944 times:

The Hong Kong Civil Aviation Department released Accident Bulletin 1/2010 today with initial details of the emergency landing at CLK:
http://www.cad.gov.hk/reports/AB-01-2010e.pdf
Quite amazing reading; "The aircraft landed on runway 07L at a groundspeed of 230 knots, with No. 1 engine stuck at about 70 % N1 and No. 2 engine stuck at about 17 % N1."

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinecloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 28462 times:

CAD's report calls it "an accident".
Cathay's press release calls it "an emergency landing".

What is the definition of an accident as opposed to an incident? I'd be prepared say this is a serious incident or even a near accident based on the fact that damage to the aircraft appears to be minor and injuries to POB seems to be sustained only during evacuation. Calling it an accident seems to be a bit OTT.

[Edited 2010-05-06 04:48:35]


A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 28404 times:

An aviation accident is defined in the Convention on International Civil Aviation Annex 13 as an occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have disembarked, in which a person is fatally or seriously injured, the aircraft sustains damage or structural failure and/or the aircraft is missing or is completely inaccessible.

From report
"During the evacuation,57 passengers were injured. Most of them sustained minor injuries and were given
medical treatment immediately at the airport. Ten of them were sent to the hospitals
for medical treatment with one passenger suffered from bone fracture and ankle joint
dislocation."

Serious Injuries: Crew : Nil Passenger : One

[Edited 2010-05-06 04:50:26]


Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlineCX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6582 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 27847 times:

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 2):
with one passenger suffered from bone fracture and ankle joint
dislocation."

Serious Injuries: Crew : Nil Passenger : One

What is the definition of a serious injury? I would have always thought a life-threatening injury was serious. A broken bone and a dislocated ankle might seem serious to the person who suffers it, but I would not think of it as that serious.

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 2):
the aircraft sustains damage

What constitutes as damage? A catering truck damages the side of the fuselage and it is an accident?


User currently offlineGA330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 27799 times:

I think the flight number is CX780 and not CX790. (The title says CX790)

HKG-SUB is CX781 and SUB-HKG is CX780.



China Eastern MU586 KLAX - SZPD with B-6055
User currently offlineLHRspotter From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2006, 182 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 26531 times:

I read somewhere both flightcrew were Australian. I also find it quite impressive that the captain was 35 years old and already had almost 8000 flying hours.

User currently offlineAJ From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 2386 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 26267 times:

Quoting GA330 (Reply 4):
I think the flight number is CX780 and not CX790. (The title says CX790)

You are quite right, my mistake.


User currently offlinemotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3131 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 24880 times:

Looking at the incident/accident/emergency from a different perspective, it must have been one hell-of-an-exciting landing.

Regards
MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineLemmy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 23840 times:

Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 3):
What is the definition of a serious injury?

I remember reading somewhere that, for the purposes of accident investigations, a serious injury is anything that involves a broken bone or requires being admitted to the hospital.



I am a patient boy ...
User currently offlinecschleic From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 22900 times:

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 2):
An aviation accident is defined in the Convention on International Civil Aviation Annex 13 as an occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have disembarked, in which a person is fatally or seriously injured, the aircraft sustains damage or structural failure and/or the aircraft is missing or is completely inaccessible.

For comparison, an incident is defined as:

An occurrence other than an accident, associated with the operation of an aircraft, which affects or could affect the safety of operations.


User currently offlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5104 posts, RR: 18
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 22749 times:

Sounds like some real good flying by the commander under some very challenging conditions.

A broken bone constitutes a serious injury, by the way, which means that this was an "accident", plain and simple.


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 21730 times:

Was the autothrust engaged at any time? I would assume it would have been normally - but in this case?

Sounds to me like an issue between the FMC and the engine control software. Interesting that the reverser didnt deploy on the number one on landing. The throttle levers obviously were inop/malfunctioning, but IIRC if the autobraking function is activated then the reversers deploy automatically without input from autothrust/or physical input moving the throttles back past idle detent?

Can an Airbus driver clarify? Zeke - love to hear your input on this.

Sounds like a top bit of flying by the PIC though - great stuff.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineflyingAY From Finland, joined Jun 2007, 699 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 21619 times:

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 10):
A broken bone constitutes a serious injury, by the way, which means that this was an "accident", plain and simple.

Even if the bone broke during evacuation? I guess, Airbus A380 evacuation test was an accident as well then, as one person broke his leg during the evacuation...

I'm not saying that this particular event couldn't be an accident because of other reasons, but to classify an event as "accident" if a bone is broken during evacuation seems a bit silly.


User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 21541 times:

The other aspect to an accident is if the aircraft sustains any damage


Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlinecpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 38
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 21092 times:

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 7):
Looking at the incident/accident/emergency from a different perspective, it must have been one hell-of-an-exciting landing.

I ran into someone who photographed the landing a while ago - from the account I was told, it was quite an eventful landing.


User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8861 posts, RR: 75
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 19303 times:

Quoting cloudyapple (Reply 1):
What is the definition of an accident as opposed to an incident?

Defined in the HK accident investigation bulletin http://www.cad.gov.hk/english/pdf/AIBulletin0109.pdf

Quoting cloudyapple (Reply 1):
I'd be prepared say this is a serious incident or even a near accident based on the fact that damage to the aircraft appears to be minor and injuries to POB seems to be sustained only during evacuation. Calling it an accident seems to be a bit OTT.

Technically I think you are correct, I would think for the broken ankle for it to be technically called an accident would needed to have occoured "while in or upon the aircraft or by direct contact with any part of the aircraft" not after coming off the slide and making contact with the ground.

The CAD definition of "Serious Incident" seems to fit better. The injuries sustained tells us what we already know, using the slides to get people off the aircraft will result in some people being injured.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 11):
Can an Airbus driver clarify? Zeke - love to hear your input on this.

I am sorry you will need to await the official release of information. The Indonesian Ministry of Transportation has also launched an investigation into the fuel quality and fuel delivery at the airport, that report will be worth a review, and should be out well before the HKCAD accident report is released.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2673 times:

Ok so I've done some research. The spoilers deploy automatically but the reversers do not - you have to actuate the reverse thrust with the throttle levels to below idle detent.

That reinforces the idea that the issue is somewhere within the engine control software, the FMC and the engines themselves.

Interesting point from Zeke re fuel quality though. I'm speculating wildly now, but might some form of particulate or debris in the fuel stopping or clogging the filters cause the engine control software to crash? I know Rolls Royce Trent 700s dont use Windows Vista....

LOL "Blue screen of death" on the EICAS display.

"Windows Engine Management Programme has encountered a problem and needs to close."



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5104 posts, RR: 18
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2543 times:

Quoting flyingAY (Reply 12):
I guess, Airbus A380 evacuation test was an accident as well then, as one person broke his leg during the evacuation...

Nope. The definition relates to injury (with certain exceptions such as natural causes and self-infliction) from the time any person boards with the intention of flight to the time that all persons have deplaned. No flight was intended during the evac test, hence it's not an accident.


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