Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Emirates Flight JFK Departure, Just Stopped  
User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (4 years 2 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 10370 times:

Just over the wire, an Emirates departing flight was just forced to abort take off by vehicle barracade as apparently a passenger on the No Fly list onboard...g

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8248 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 10290 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Who was stupid enough to place a car in front of a fully loaded 77W? That is just asking for problems and gives new definition to the word " CARE BOMB", how about " Car Bomb by 777".

User currently offlineweb500sjc From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 719 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 10292 times:

Who was stupid enpugh to place a car in front of a fully loaded 77W? what was the problem with stoping it before take-off, they had enouhg time to send a car out to he runway. or having it return? and why was the plane taking off when they figured out there was a person on the no fly list


Boiler Up!
User currently offlinenewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 10292 times:

Turns out it was just a false alarm.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36989787/ns/us_news-security/

EDIT: And the article says the plane was intercepted on a taxiway; no aborted takeoff mentioned.

[Edited 2010-05-06 09:57:05]


Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineMIASkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1342 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 10292 times:

Per MSNBC...false alarm on the suspected no fly list passenger...Emirates out of JFK allowed to continue on...
not a good week for Emirates!



Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 10230 times:

Aircraft has been cleared for take off. Why the delay in capturing individuals before they board?...TSA...you can chime in on this anytime...g

User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21456 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9997 times:

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 5):
Aircraft has been cleared for take off. Why the delay in capturing individuals before they board?...TSA...you can chime in on this anytime...g

Because it's a 24 hour in advance check requirement system, and Emirates seems to be checking the lists at a time of day that then makes it result in this if someone ends up on board.

There is a plan to change it to a 2-hour in advance minimum check, which would make it more reasonable for all international flights, considering most start boarding an hour in advance in the USA.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineBA6590 From UK - England, joined Jul 2007, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8304 times:

Why did it take so long to notice that a passenger is on the no fly list?
Are the names checked manually, or is there some sort of automated system that flags passengers that have their names on the list?



"Never forget, the higher we soar, the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche -
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7494 posts, RR: 32
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5212 times:

Quoting BA6590 (Reply 7):
Why did it take so long to notice that a passenger is on the no fly list?
Are the names checked manually, or is there some sort of automated system that flags passengers that have their names on the list?

The list has hundreds of common names and identical names. There are additional information points necessary to go from a name match to a probability that the person on the flight is the person on the no-fly list.

If they just pull passengers off based on a name match - they would be taking dozens of people off flights every day.

Like taking a 6 month old baby off a flight because his parents made an unfortunate decision on naming the child. That has happened.


User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21456 posts, RR: 60
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5012 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 8):
Like taking a 6 month old baby off a flight because his parents made an unfortunate decision on naming the child. That has happened.

But only because the people doing so are morons who don't even know their own job.

From day 1, the rules clearly have stated that children with matching names are to IGNORED. Not questioned every time, not removed from the flight, not subjected to secondary screening. Nothing. You see a name hit, you see it's a kid or a baby, you say nothing and treat them like any other pax.

That stupid CSAs (yes, I say stupid when you don't know your job AND you don't even learn from news accounts of others' mistakes) don't get it or thuggish TSA drones can't grasp their own regulations is not the fault of the no-fly system, but a failure in training combined with a complete lack of common sense in the field.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9459 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4855 times:

The systems have been changing in the last few months since additional information has been requires such as pertaining to birthdates and redress numbers. Airlines are having to change or upgrade some systems or functionality, so glitches are likely to occur.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7494 posts, RR: 32
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4742 times:

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 9):
Not questioned every time, not removed from the flight, not subjected to secondary screening. Nothing. You see a name hit, you see it's a kid or a baby, you say nothing and treat them like any other pax.

In one case of a child - the TSA screener at the checkpoint did not catch the baby had a name match. The parents had purchased a seat for the child due to the length of the flight - so the child did not show up on the manifest as a baby/ child.

When the manifest was checked after the plane was loaded - the name match came up and there was no information from the manifest or the gate agents that this name was a child. So the plane was stopped and the agents went to that seat to remove the person - found the father sitting in the 'name match' seat, accompanied by a child and mother. They were brought in to make sure the name match was correct, or where the mixup occured.

Name matching is a terrible system without additional biometric data - especially when they try to keep the list of names secret.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12773 posts, RR: 100
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3862 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 11):
Name matching is a terrible system without additional biometric data - especially when they try to keep the list of names secret.

  

The TSA has to change the process. I wonder if at this point the 'secret' part isn't more to protect high level TSA jobs. One should have a right to know if the name is on the list.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 11):
In one case of a child -

A child?!? Poor thing, now on the 'list' for life probably too.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offline727lover From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6285 posts, RR: 17
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3365 times:

Do authorities have power to bring the plane back after takeoff if it is still in US airspace? What if not in US airspace? Fighter jets?


Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineweb500sjc From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 719 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3135 times:

Quoting 727lover (Reply 13):
Do authorities have power to bring the plane back after takeoff if it is still in US airspace? What if not in US airspace? Fighter jets?

I would assume, yes. the plane is still under US ATC, so it must comply unless there is an emergency, also i wouldnt want to see a plane blantently fail to follow directions or else sombody might suspect that the plane has been hijacked.



Boiler Up!
User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2890 times:

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 6):

I see...well clearly as recent history has revealed yet another loop hole..the plus side is the more these guys try, the better an education we get...It is safe to say that homegrown types I'm sure number in the thousands and the attempts to create havoc in the future will be delivered in many forms. With all the departments we have and "over sight" groups...would you think that they get a couple of creative thinkers and sit em in a room , give them four hours to come up with scenarios...such as...'If I were a terrorist, I would..._______?" Basically fill in the blanks, then act on the scenarios that were deemed to be the most likely and act on them. Basically this would help us stay a step ahead...but silly me...I'm sure they are already doing this...g


Quoting 727lover (Reply 13):

Yes, the authority exists and even if the aircraft were to successfully complete the trip...cooperation is alleged to exist at the other end, but no guarantees.


User currently offlineSolarFlyer22 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Nov 2009, 948 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2582 times:

The problem is that by matching people based on names is just not that accurate. It's not unique enough. Plus you have to contend with translations from other alphabets that have letters not present in English. There isn't even a standardized spelling in english for certain names.

User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7494 posts, RR: 32
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2345 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 12):
Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 11):
In one case of a child -

A child?!? Poor thing, now on the 'list' for life probably too.

I used to write high school sports for several newspapers in the Dallas area. Parents giving a child a name which creates 'challenges' for the rest of their life is all too common.


User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2058 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2188 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 17):
I used to write high school sports for several newspapers in the Dallas area. Parents giving a child a name which creates 'challenges' for the rest of their life is all too common.

They want to be "unique."  


User currently offlinetharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1854 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2097 times:

Quoting SolarFlyer22 (Reply 16):
Plus you have to contend with translations from other alphabets that have letters not present in English. There isn't even a standardized spelling in english for certain names.

I think this was the case with Abdulmutallab. Somewhere internally in the CIA or State Dept, they had misspelled his name, and I think helped him slip through.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 17):

I used to write high school sports for several newspapers in the Dallas area. Parents giving a child a name which creates 'challenges' for the rest of their life is all too common.

Opposite problem here, I think. There, having a very unique name could be seen as a challenge. But to avoid being mistaken for somebody with the same name on a no-fly list, you want to have a very unique name.


User currently offlinedirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1649 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2078 times:

Regarding the 'child naming' thing-one has to keep in mind this: In Middle Eastern countries, one has to keep in mind that some names are repeated, and that some people don't have 'family names' but rather use their father, grandfather or great-grandfather as their family name. A name like Ali Mohamed or Ahmed Omar would then be very common, so if there's a terrorist with that name on a no-fly list, then you can bet a lot of travellers wll be stopped. I myself get stopped from time to time at passport control (but no questions ever asked, I believe it only takes me an extra minute or so to clear me). My father has the same problem-in fact his 'namesake' has his own Wikipedia entry-but we've never had any real issues, in the Middle East or a Western country.

Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Emirates Flight EK027 Inbound To Closed Glasgow. posted Wed May 5 2010 02:05:56 by AJL
Major Disaster Averted On Emirates Flight posted Sat Apr 24 2010 22:51:57 by ojas
$3.6m Of Ivory Found On Emirates Flight To BKK posted Tue Mar 2 2010 07:05:06 by SQ_EK_freak
Emirates Flight Crew posted Wed Jan 27 2010 17:48:45 by AT
787 ZA001 2nd Flight (KBFI Departure) 27DEC09 posted Sun Dec 27 2009 21:26:08 by FlyPBA
Wow SAN- JFK In Just Over 4 Hours posted Sun Jan 25 2009 14:42:58 by A380US
Bomb Threat Called On Emirates Flight, EK 600 posted Sun Jan 11 2009 22:17:38 by SQ_EK_freak
UA Flight JFK To Bangkok posted Tue Nov 25 2008 06:37:17 by Contrails15
Emirates A380 JFK Inaugural On 1/08: Confirmed! posted Sun Jun 8 2008 22:23:22 by Ronerone
02/15/08 OA JFK Departure Question posted Fri Feb 15 2008 13:31:57 by SXDFC