soon7x7 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 2800 posts, RR: 14 Posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9939 times:
Just over the wire, an Emirates departing flight was just forced to abort take off by vehicle barracade as apparently a passenger on the No Fly list onboard...g
jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7348 posts, RR: 7 Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9859 times:
Who was stupid enough to place a car in front of a fully loaded 77W? That is just asking for problems and gives new definition to the word " CARE BOMB", how about " Car Bomb by 777".
web500sjc From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 588 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9861 times:
Who was stupid enpugh to place a car in front of a fully loaded 77W? what was the problem with stoping it before take-off, they had enouhg time to send a car out to he runway. or having it return? and why was the plane taking off when they figured out there was a person on the no fly list
newark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 33 Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9861 times:
ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21029 posts, RR: 60 Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9566 times:
Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 5): Aircraft has been cleared for take off. Why the delay in capturing individuals before they board?...TSA...you can chime in on this anytime...g
Because it's a 24 hour in advance check requirement system, and Emirates seems to be checking the lists at a time of day that then makes it result in this if someone ends up on board.
There is a plan to change it to a 2-hour in advance minimum check, which would make it more reasonable for all international flights, considering most start boarding an hour in advance in the USA.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
BA6590 From UK - England, joined Jul 2007, 132 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7873 times:
Why did it take so long to notice that a passenger is on the no fly list?
Are the names checked manually, or is there some sort of automated system that flags passengers that have their names on the list?
"Never forget, the higher we soar, the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche -
rfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 6150 posts, RR: 25 Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4781 times:
Quoting BA6590 (Reply 7): Why did it take so long to notice that a passenger is on the no fly list?
Are the names checked manually, or is there some sort of automated system that flags passengers that have their names on the list?
The list has hundreds of common names and identical names. There are additional information points necessary to go from a name match to a probability that the person on the flight is the person on the no-fly list.
If they just pull passengers off based on a name match - they would be taking dozens of people off flights every day.
Like taking a 6 month old baby off a flight because his parents made an unfortunate decision on naming the child. That has happened.
ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21029 posts, RR: 60 Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4581 times:
Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 8): Like taking a 6 month old baby off a flight because his parents made an unfortunate decision on naming the child. That has happened.
But only because the people doing so are morons who don't even know their own job.
From day 1, the rules clearly have stated that children with matching names are to IGNORED. Not questioned every time, not removed from the flight, not subjected to secondary screening. Nothing. You see a name hit, you see it's a kid or a baby, you say nothing and treat them like any other pax.
That stupid CSAs (yes, I say stupid when you don't know your job AND you don't even learn from news accounts of others' mistakes) don't get it or thuggish TSA drones can't grasp their own regulations is not the fault of the no-fly system, but a failure in training combined with a complete lack of common sense in the field.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
RoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 8748 posts, RR: 52 Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4424 times:
The systems have been changing in the last few months since additional information has been requires such as pertaining to birthdates and redress numbers. Airlines are having to change or upgrade some systems or functionality, so glitches are likely to occur.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
rfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 6150 posts, RR: 25 Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4311 times:
Quoting ikramerica (Reply 9): Not questioned every time, not removed from the flight, not subjected to secondary screening. Nothing. You see a name hit, you see it's a kid or a baby, you say nothing and treat them like any other pax.
In one case of a child - the TSA screener at the checkpoint did not catch the baby had a name match. The parents had purchased a seat for the child due to the length of the flight - so the child did not show up on the manifest as a baby/ child.
When the manifest was checked after the plane was loaded - the name match came up and there was no information from the manifest or the gate agents that this name was a child. So the plane was stopped and the agents went to that seat to remove the person - found the father sitting in the 'name match' seat, accompanied by a child and mother. They were brought in to make sure the name match was correct, or where the mixup occured.
Name matching is a terrible system without additional biometric data - especially when they try to keep the list of names secret.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10691 posts, RR: 100 Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3431 times:
Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 11): Name matching is a terrible system without additional biometric data - especially when they try to keep the list of names secret.
The TSA has to change the process. I wonder if at this point the 'secret' part isn't more to protect high level TSA jobs. One should have a right to know if the name is on the list.
727lover From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5722 posts, RR: 20 Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2934 times:
Do authorities have power to bring the plane back after takeoff if it is still in US airspace? What if not in US airspace? Fighter jets?
web500sjc From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 588 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2704 times:
Quoting 727lover (Reply 13): Do authorities have power to bring the plane back after takeoff if it is still in US airspace? What if not in US airspace? Fighter jets?
I would assume, yes. the plane is still under US ATC, so it must comply unless there is an emergency, also i wouldnt want to see a plane blantently fail to follow directions or else sombody might suspect that the plane has been hijacked.
I see...well clearly as recent history has revealed yet another loop hole..the plus side is the more these guys try, the better an education we get...It is safe to say that homegrown types I'm sure number in the thousands and the attempts to create havoc in the future will be delivered in many forms. With all the departments we have and "over sight" groups...would you think that they get a couple of creative thinkers and sit em in a room , give them four hours to come up with scenarios...such as...'If I were a terrorist, I would..._______?" Basically fill in the blanks, then act on the scenarios that were deemed to be the most likely and act on them. Basically this would help us stay a step ahead...but silly me...I'm sure they are already doing this...g
Yes, the authority exists and even if the aircraft were to successfully complete the trip...cooperation is alleged to exist at the other end, but no guarantees.
SolarFlyer22 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Nov 2009, 395 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2151 times:
The problem is that by matching people based on names is just not that accurate. It's not unique enough. Plus you have to contend with translations from other alphabets that have letters not present in English. There isn't even a standardized spelling in english for certain names.
rfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 6150 posts, RR: 25 Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1914 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 12): Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 11):
In one case of a child -
A child?!? Poor thing, now on the 'list' for life probably too.
I used to write high school sports for several newspapers in the Dallas area. Parents giving a child a name which creates 'challenges' for the rest of their life is all too common.
chrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1774 posts, RR: 4 Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1757 times:
Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 17): I used to write high school sports for several newspapers in the Dallas area. Parents giving a child a name which creates 'challenges' for the rest of their life is all too common.
tharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1778 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1666 times:
Quoting SolarFlyer22 (Reply 16): Plus you have to contend with translations from other alphabets that have letters not present in English. There isn't even a standardized spelling in english for certain names.
I think this was the case with Abdulmutallab. Somewhere internally in the CIA or State Dept, they had misspelled his name, and I think helped him slip through.
Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 17):
I used to write high school sports for several newspapers in the Dallas area. Parents giving a child a name which creates 'challenges' for the rest of their life is all too common.
Opposite problem here, I think. There, having a very unique name could be seen as a challenge. But to avoid being mistaken for somebody with the same name on a no-fly list, you want to have a very unique name.
directorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1569 posts, RR: 12 Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1647 times:
Regarding the 'child naming' thing-one has to keep in mind this: In Middle Eastern countries, one has to keep in mind that some names are repeated, and that some people don't have 'family names' but rather use their father, grandfather or great-grandfather as their family name. A name like Ali Mohamed or Ahmed Omar would then be very common, so if there's a terrorist with that name on a no-fly list, then you can bet a lot of travellers wll be stopped. I myself get stopped from time to time at passport control (but no questions ever asked, I believe it only takes me an extra minute or so to clear me). My father has the same problem-in fact his 'namesake' has his own Wikipedia entry-but we've never had any real issues, in the Middle East or a Western country.
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