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What Will LH Do With AUAs Odd Longhaul Fleet?  
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10654 posts, RR: 9
Posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6793 times:

Now that AUA is being integrated into LH, its logical to speculate about Austrian´s longhaul which is an oddball with its small number of 763s and 772s. I assume these aircraft wont have a future under the new owners.

Has anyone heard anything in that direction?

9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offline1stfl94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 1455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6293 times:

I guess it will depend on LH's long haul orders, i.e. a 787 or A350 to replace some of the LH A343s could also be used to replace the AUA fleet. In the meantime as long as there is long haul flying from VIE, it doesn't make much sense to change the fleet yet.

User currently offlineBrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3919 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6221 times:

The AUA fleet is small, in the grand LH scheme of things, however I am pretty sure that LHT has maintenance facilities for the 767, which makes this less of an issue. I would also imagine that because the fleet is completely separate to the LH fleet the lack of commonality is not a huge issue, right now. Going forward, Im sure the LH group will have a common spec and aircraft type, although in all likelihood LH will order both the 787 and A350.

What I was thinking, is if SK becomes part of the LH group the A321s and A319s might be swapped with the AUA fleet of 737-600/700/800. I know the engines are different, but both engine types are operated by the group as a whole. This would probably be a bigger benefit for SK than AUA.

Brian.



Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12411 posts, RR: 37
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6156 times:

And let's not forget SN's long haul fleet. Is this actually operated by SN itself and is it included in the LH deal?

As to AUA, to stick to the thread title, I think they will hold on to their current fleet of 777s and 767s for the time being. Although the 767s are a bit long in the tooth, they have been retrofitted with PTVs and OS has a very good reputation for service.

Long term, I agree that LH is likely to make an aircraft choice - most likely the A350 - which it will order in sufficient numbers to replace the currents fleets of LH itself, LX and OS - possibly SK as well.


User currently offlineRonaldo747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6022 times:

IIRC just after the take-over LH stated that they stick with to the 777s with the possibility to purchase additional frames later on. I don't know about the 767, but they has even been retrofitted with winglets, I guess they will stay with AUA for the medium term. I guess they will be replaced with 787s. An all-A350 or -B787 fleet for all of their subsidiaries is unlikely.

User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10654 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5156 times:

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 2):
LHT has maintenance facilities for the 767, which makes this less of an issue.

LHT in HAM services both the 767 and 777.

Quoting Ronaldo747 (Reply 4):
I don't know about the 767, but they has even been retrofitted with winglets, I guess they will stay with AUA for the medium term.

That says nothing. CO retrofitted some of its 733s with winglets and retired them just a year afterwards. The OS 767 retrofit was ordered before LH took over.
As Swiss is phasing out its A332s couldnt they replace Austrians 763s perhaps?

Quoting Ronaldo747 (Reply 4):
IIRC just after the take-over LH stated that they stick with to the 777s with the possibility to purchase additional frames later on.

I doubt that.


User currently offlineMHG From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 777 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4951 times:

I´d guess at least the B767-300 could be of interest for Condor.
But certainly not in the short term ...



I miss the sound of rolls royce darts and speys
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4916 times:
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Quoting na (Reply 5):
That says nothing. CO retrofitted some of its 733s with winglets and retired them just a year afterwards. The OS 767 retrofit was ordered before LH took over. As Swiss is phasing out its A332s couldnt they replace Austrians 763s perhaps?
Quoting na (Reply 5):
I doubt that.


I don't disagree with your assumption, but the following text makes me think that Ronaldo747 may be correct:

Austrian Airlines takes off into new future with Lufthansa


Lufthansa has agreed to maintain Austrian air traffic infrastructure to the greatest possible extent, taking into consideration the needs of Vienna as a business location, as well as continuing to expand this wherever commercially viable in line with the needs of the market. Austrian Airlines will retain a presence in the intercontinental aviation sector with its own long-haul fleet, and contribute its own specific key competence to the Lufthansa Group by continuing to build upon its Focus East strategy.


In order to turn profitable ASAP, I assume that OS will retain their current Boeing long haul fleet, rather than return to an Airbus fleet (A332 and A340) which they divested not too long ago? Please correct me if I'm wrong?


Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10654 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4863 times:

The press text only means that AUA will remain as a brand and will retain a longhaul fleet of its own. It doesnt mean its present longhaul fleet though. If there´s one fact that gives the 777/767 a chance to fly for another few years its that there´s a major shake-up ahead affecting all airlines: 767/777s/A330s/A340s will be replaced largely by 787s and A350s. Its unlikely LH will order more A330s to replace those few AUa planes.

LH wont make the mistake others did and kill good brand names. I´ve spoken with LH people personally about this topic.


User currently offlinecolumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7058 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4731 times:

Quoting MHG (Reply 6):
I´d guess at least the B767-300 could be of interest for Condor.
But certainly not in the short term ...

Well Condor is interested in additional frames, they were interested in the Belair 767 for a short time. But if I recall correctly Lufthansa does not hold any shares of Condor anymore.

Quoting Ronaldo747 (Reply 4):
IIRC just after the take-over LH stated that they stick with to the 777s with the possibility to purchase additional frames later on

You do recall correctly LH indeed stated that theyy stick with 777s and stated the possibilty of ordering new frames.

I don´t think it makes sense to drop the 777s and order A330s now - it makes no sense dropping an aircraft and replace it if the successor is already available. The OS 777 are in very good shape and can continue to fly for at least another 5 years even longer if they have to.
LH is in the middle of evaluating an A340-300 replacement and I think we will see a huge order as this order will also be for LX; SN and OS. Although LX has the newest A333s in LH´s fleet and they will continue to stay a little longer.
As SN and OS don´t have a huge intercontinental network I beliebe the 787-8/-9 is the right aircraft for them. LH mainline might choose the A350-900/-1000 combination for themself although I would not exclude the 787-9 per se for LH mainline.

I can see the LH/OS/SN and LX fleet looking like this:

LH
A380
747-8I
A350-1000
A350-900
787-9

OS
787-8
787-9

SN
787-8
787-9

LX
A350-900
A350-1000 (maybe, ZRH has the potential for a big hub and Swiss once had the A346 on order)



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
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