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Will There Ever Be Another Tri-Jet Design?  
User currently offlinec5load From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 917 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 14777 times:

My blue search function isn't working, so Mods if there is another post about this, please delete me. Nowadays there are either two or four engine designs for airplanes. The 777LR seems to do ok for long-haul, and the A380 does ok at long-haul and high capacity. Will there ever be a need for another three engine airplane?


"But this airplane has 4 engines, it's an entirely different kind of flying! Altogether"
25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinem11stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 14754 times:

Personally I doubt it. Thanks to ETOPS two engine planes can basically go anywhere a four engined plane can go...


My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 14731 times:

I wish....

My freshman year of college I came up with my own answer to the A380



User currently offlinec5load From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 917 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 14698 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 2):
My freshman year of college I came up with my own answer to the A380

My thoughts exactly! An airplane that can carry 500+ pax but be able to go with a shorter wing thanks to larger engines, like those on the 77W mounted on the wings and one on the tail. Granted, that would mean one STRONG tail!



"But this airplane has 4 engines, it's an entirely different kind of flying! Altogether"
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 14618 times:

Quoting c5load (Reply 3):
An airplane that can carry 500+ pax but be able to go with a shorter wing thanks to larger engines,

I'm not necessarily sure you could get away with shorter wings based on the power of the engines, as increased wingspan can have positive affects on effeciency. At the time I drew this, the thought of the day was you can do the same on less engines. I think 3 -115B engines could power the A380, but it would still probably require the wingspan, especially if you wanted to increase the length of the aircraft later on, or the MTOW.

At any rate, I think that the MD-11 is just one sexy aircraft, especially in the AA livery. This drawing is heavily inspired by the MD-11, however with huge and long wings, with a high dihedral, and a tail cone/section based on the 777. If I could professionally draw this, I think I'd find it very aesthetically pleasing, even if it is not feasable.


User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3624 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 14613 times:

I would love to see a super jumbo powered by three GE 90-115! 

User currently offlinem11stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 14461 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 4):
At any rate, I think that the MD-11 is just one sexy aircraft, especially in the AA livery.

Definitely! Tri-jets just look exciting and cool!



My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
User currently offlinemorrisond From Canada, joined Jan 2010, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 14416 times:

You may see an ultra-large BWB with triples at some point in the future.

User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4833 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 14350 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 2):
My freshman year of college I came up with my own answer to the A380

That looks very similar to MDs proposal before they got swallowed by Boeing... It was to be called the MD-12.

Quoting morrisond (Reply 7):
You may see an ultra-large BWB with triples at some point in the future.

   this is exactly the kind of aircraft that is most likely to be a triple.... because the engines are all above and not unbalanced it doesn't need to be a quad. At the same time it doesn't need to have huge expensive engines of a twin (larger than GE115).



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineSSTsomeday From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 1276 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 13075 times:

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 1):
Personally I doubt it. Thanks to ETOPS two engine planes can basically go anywhere a four engined plane can go...

I doubt it as well. With the advent of huge twins and ETOPS, you have the additional advantage of fuel economy, simplicity of maintenance and parts, the statistical reality of fewer airplanes going tech due to fewer engines.

Also I think the design requires an less desirable center of gravity (higher and further aft), additional weight to the superstructure, undesirable height of the tail (hangers), (and the MD-11 vertical stabilizer I heard was STILL undersized, much like the Titanic's rudder   , ) necessary positioning of wings further aft, causing undesirable flight characteristics especially at low speeds, additional maintenance costs due to the positioning of the number two engine about 3 stories up.

I rather liked the astetic of the L-1011 myself - but - I think those days are over.



I come in peace
User currently offlineohthedrama747 From UK - Scotland, joined Jan 2005, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 12707 times:

Not a hope in hell, IMHO.

User currently offlineAirCanadaA330 From Canada, joined Aug 2008, 294 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 12393 times:
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Quoting UAL747 (Reply 4):
At any rate, I think that the MD-11 is just one sexy aircraft

I agree, I wish it would have been a larger sucess



Cheers;
User currently offlineOlympicATH From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 11362 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 8):
That looks very similar to MDs proposal before they got swallowed by Boeing... It was to be called the MD-12.

Actually, the MD-12 was a quad and it would have looked like this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Md-12-2.png


User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3526 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 11227 times:
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Saw this on the main page just now...

Thinking "Wow this belongs in a trijet thread" and I saw this thread... so... the trijet 757!!


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Brian Lockett




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User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4682 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 11054 times:

Well, if Dassault comes up with a competitor to the G650, it might very well be a trijet...


Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4840 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 10204 times:

Quoting c5load (Thread starter):
The 777LR seems to do ok for long-haul, and the A380 does ok at long-haul and high capacity. Will there ever be a need for another three engine airplane?
http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRHeft7X/FRHeft77/FRH7707/FR7707b1.JPG

Considering that Boeing took out the third engine from the original 777, unlikely except for new BWB applications.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4833 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 9133 times:

Quoting OlympicATH (Reply 12):
Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 8):
That looks very similar to MDs proposal before they got swallowed by Boeing... It was to be called the MD-12.

Actually, the MD-12 was a quad and it would have looked like this:

Actually it was a tri-jet
Could Boeing Reconsider The MD-12? (by Sdq777 Jun 10 2009 in Civil Aviation)
at a later stage they decided they might make it bigger and make it a quad.
http://md-eleven.net/MD11-MD12-undeveloped-models
The initial aircraft was to be a stretched MD-11... the final aircraft looks similar to the A380... at one stage MD and AB were looking at working together on it.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlinerktsci From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 59 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 8999 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 8):
this is exactly the kind of aircraft that is most likely to be a triple.... because the engines are all above and not unbalanced it doesn't need to be a quad. At the same time it doesn't need to have huge expensive engines of a twin (larger than GE115).

Agreed. While there are some minor engine out considerations for the left or right mounted engine, the moment arm would be relatively short and therefore the rudder requirements less important.

If large BWB's are built, I expect a three engine BWB to replace all four engine wing-mounted types and offer a significant efficiency improvement from just that single change.


User currently offlineFlyNWA727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 8900 times:

I doubt there will ever be another need for a trijet. The only modern/proposed trijet design I've heard about, was the proposed Boeing Blended Wing Body.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/images/content/299749main_BWB.jpg

Other than that, I don't see a trijet happening. One of the major factors is the limitation of how big of an engine one could have for the #2 engine. In fact, I think the obstacle effectively killed the 727 and MD-11. Neither Boeing nor McDonnell-Douglas could figure out how to incorporate a larger tail-mounted #2 engine. And, as others have stated, what purpose would a tri-jet serve when you can have the economic of a twinjet that could do the same job?



First flight aboard a Northwest B727-251ADV out of BWI Thurgood Marshall Airport, my hometown airport.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19727 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8843 times:

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 5):
I would love to see a super jumbo powered by three GE 90-115!

In fact, the A380 (or an aircraft of that MTOW) could have been powered by 3x GE90-115b engines.

Now, here's the thing: I'd bet that, if pressed, the engine companies could come up with a 130-150 klb engine. The GE90-110/115 did 124klb in testing So if they can do that, then exactly what niche is a trijet going to fill?


User currently offlinethebatman From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 848 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8802 times:
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Since there is no direct replacement aircraft for the 757 (737-900 or A321 come close but fall short on capacity and range), I say Boeing should design an all-new aircraft that basically looks like a stretched 727 that holds the same amount of people (or more) than the 757. New engines, new cockpit. So those airlines looking to upgrade from the 737-900 but don't want something as big as the 787 could have an option. It probably will NEVER happen, but I would LOVE to see a next-generation tri-motor!!

Edit: I guess since the 787-8 holds between 210-250 people you could say that it would be a good replacement for the 757. But, since the 787's range is like DOUBLE that of a 757, I doubt airlines would want to fly that from ORD to DSM  Smile
Anyway, the 727 is my favorite airplane of all time, and I would love to see it back in some way....

[Edited 2010-05-09 01:04:41]


A319,A320,B727,B732/3/5/7/8/9,B742/4,B752/3,B762/3,B772,CRJ2/7,DC9/MD80,DC10,E145/70
User currently offlineHotelDJRomeo From Canada, joined Dec 2009, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8412 times:

http://www.baccarat-precision.fr/IMG/jpg/Photo_Falcon_7X_c_Dassault_Aviation_Paul_Bowen.jpg

That is the background on my mobile these days....

In terms of a larger scale Tri-jet, count my vote in the "probably not" camp for the reasons people have already mentioned.

Edited to add: Just spotted this on the home page:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Florian Trojer Photography



[Edited 2010-05-09 09:03:11]


Roger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?
User currently offlinebravogolf From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 539 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8140 times:

Quoting rktsci (Reply 17):

I would think that the climb over obsticale with an engine out would be a MAJOR advantage of a three engine vs two engines.


User currently offlinemedic41 From Canada, joined Apr 2010, 2 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7994 times:

Sadly I think not......I for one miss the tri jets. Although I see the odd fedex dc 10 once in awhile

User currently offlineupsphl From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7810 times:

Quoting c5load (Reply 3):
At any rate, I think that the MD-11 is just one sexy aircraft



Yes it is and I'm glad i have the joy to work with theme at UPS they look real sexy in UPS livery....


User currently offlineebj1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Reply 25, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7726 times:

Quoting morrisond (Reply 7):
You may see an ultra-large BWB with triples at some point in the future.

As maintenance issues seem to be the driver that leads airlines away from tri-jets, you're not likely to see a conventional new airliner with a tri-jet engine arrangement. The BWB design, on the other hand, is going to have all engines located at the rear upper section of the airframe and three engines ... or more ... would be likely in such a design.



Dare to dream; dream big!
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